Some history: I was the OP on a four year old thread about the Chinese LKS MH-DA004 DAC. It achieved an underground buzz. The open architecture of its predecessor MH-DA003 made it the object of a lot of user mods, usually to its analog section, rolling op amps or replacing with discrete. The MH-DA004 with its new ESS chips and JFET analog section was called better then the modified older units. It has two ES9038pro DAC chips deliberately run warm, massive power supply, powered Amanero USB board, JFET section, 3 Crystek femtosecond clocks, Mundorf caps, Cardas connectors, etc., for about $1500. For this vinyl guy any reservation about ESS chips was resolved by the LKS implimentaion, but their revelation of detail was preserved, something that a listener to classic music especially appreciated. I made a list of DACs (many far more expensive) it was compared favorably to in forums. Modifications continued, now to clocks and caps. Components built to a price can be improved by costlier parts and the modifiers wrote glowingly of the SQ they achieved.
Meanwhile, during the 4 years after release of the MH-DA004, LKS (now Musetec) worked on the new MH-DA005 design, also with a pair of ES9038pro chips. This time he used more of the best components available. One torroidal transformer has silver plated copper. Also banks of super capacitors that act like batteries, solid silver hookup wire, 4 femtoclocks each costing multiples of the Crysteks, a revised Amanero board, more of the best European caps and a new partitioned case. I can't say cost NO object, but costs well beyond. A higher price, of course. Details at http://www.mu-sound.com/DA005-detail.html
The question, surely, is: How does it sound? I'm only going to answer indirectly for the moment. I thought that the MH-DA004 was to be my last DAC, or at least for a very long time. I was persuaded to part with my $$ by research, and by satisfaction with the MH-DA004. Frankly, I have been overwhelmed by the improvement; just didn't think it was possible. Fluidity, clarity, bass extension. A post to another board summed it up better than I can after listening to piano trios: "I have probably attended hundreds of classical concerts (both orchestral and chamber) in my life. I know what live sounds like in a good and bad seat and in a good and mediocre hall. All I can say is HOLY CRAP, this sounds like the real thing from a good seat in a good hall. Not an approximation of reality, but reality."
Some systems don't like silver, I used to get tipped up treble in some past systems. With present setup, love silver, probably half silver, the other half copper. Once you get balance right, silver has a refinement copper can never match, copper can GLARE, silver will never do this, may spotlight the highs, thin the mids and bass a bit. But once you get to a point where a system can use silver, you'll never go back to all copper, I've never experienced such a life like and analog like sound from digital until high content of silver in system and the 005, which by the way has relatively high content of silver.
So, AQ Diamond usb and AQ Vodka ethernet great for me, assume AQ Diamond ethernet would be a step up from the Vodka, at silly money. I've tried various all copper usb and ethernet, all less resolving than silver clad.
Has anyone tried to connect a Schaffner filter (FN9260-1-06) to the power cable for 005?In my system, a big improvement in the image of the stage and I finally hear what the real recording sounds like.It is not expensive and the production of a short reduction is simple.Someone try it to confirm it.By the way, I also replaced the original power cord with a silver "Supra"
I have noticed that both the Bricasti and Weiss DACs use such a device. While I try to stay away from any sort of "purifiers", I recently moved my rig around and I couldn't get my power cable into the 005 because a part of my rack was blocking it.
So I after looking around I tried this which is , I believe, essentially the same as you suggested with the advantage of being able to swap it around. It also comes in three different sizes. I bought the Furutech Flow-15 Plus.
I've found it significantly lowers the noise floor on the 005.
@lordmeltonI have Furutech Flux 50 NCF which I use with my 845SET amp, never thought to use with 005. Have a feeling this would only make sound more analytical. Never had a thought 005 needed a lowered noise floor, incredible level of resolution I'm still mining points to pursuing lower noise floor with rest of system pays back with greatest dividend. The one thing I DON'T want to do with 005 is alter it's voicing in ANY way.
Still, it may be informative to try the Flux 50, I have tried a number of power cords, none have changed the voicing to significant degree.
+1 for the Furutech power "filters". Great product, been using my Flux 50 with the power amp. Will give it a try on the 005 next time I shut the amp down.
@snsThe Flux 50 NCF I believe is for a full system or power amps but there would be nothing lost to try it with the 005.
I haven't noticed anything regarding "voicing" altered in any way with the exception that lowering the noise floor is letting more natural detail through by getting out of the way of the noise, so it hasn't created analytical detail in any way.
I'd be very interested to know your results because the Flux 50 is quite expensive.
Filters for higher current do not have damping properties like filters with lower current load.I can't comment on other types than the FN9260.Great benefit... and I have not experienced any loss.My filter will be built right into the 005 when the warranty runs out.
Well, I can't help but have expectation bias with using Flux 50. Not only the damping properties @baljaspeaks of, but this will be daisy chaining power conditioning. I already have the BPT 3.5 Sig. isolation transformer, not expecting good things adding the Flux 50. Expecting overly damped, analytical sound quality..
I've been experiencing the above deficiencies with cleansing of ethernet feeding server. I've now tried audiophile switch and generic FMC prior to server, much prefer router powered by lps direct feed to server. Last try will be Network Acoustics Muon.
Perhaps one can 'clean' things up too much, could be at some level just a bit of noise can be pleasing vs. the coloration these filters induce. Use of Flux 50 and Muon will provide more evidence in determining this true or not.
Perhaps one can ’clean’ things up too much, could be at some level just a bit of noise can be pleasing vs. the coloration these filters induce. Use of Flux 50 and Muon will provide more evidence in determining this true or not.
Could be some truth with the idea of "excessive" cleaning/filtering. It seems to me that the excellent BPT 3.5 Signature (With its balanced AC isolation transformer and conditioning) is enough. I look forward with much interest and curiosity to your listening outcome.I’ll concede you won’t know for certain without actually hearing the comparison.
@steaksterI only purchased the Flux 50 after purchase of Klipschorns, 104db sensitivity and high current transmitter tubes can make a bit of noise. Flux 50 was only filter or power conditioner I ever tried with both my 845 SET amps that didn't negatively impact transients. The fact you did have issue just goes to show how utterly unique each setup is. I've not tried daisy chaining it in front of BPT for the very reason I thought it may impact dynamics having to power entire system (exception of amps).
In spite of some negative experiences here, theoretically, a lower noise floor will provide greater resolution, and shouldn't have any downsides. So, unless the device induces some coloration, or device exposes some prior but not yet uncovered system coloration, all should be good.
So I tried the Flux 50 with the 005 & yes it certainly does lower the noise floor of the DAC. Problem is... I like the sound of my system better when the Flux 50 is feeding the SS power amp. May have to purchase another one...
I tried the Flux 50 last night, just completely sucked the life out of music. Flux 50 only on dac, this with often played cd rip.
Based on my negative experiences with three filtering devices over past year (RenoLabs Ultimate switch, generic FMC and Flux 50), I'm reconsidering ramifications of lowered noise floors. Theoretically, the Flux 50 should have lowered my noise floor, but it in fact raised it based on what I lost, I should have heard more information rather than less. The level of transparency lost was very consequential, made all the difference between real performers in room vs. facsimile. The switch and FMC losses were more in realm of sound stage and imaging losses. Not sure these deficiencies related to colorations, I'm hearing it as actual information loss. Perhaps straight wire effect at work here, losses from the added complexity negates theoretical lower noise floor.
For those who Flux 50 works, presume there is correct amount of noise floor lowering for every system and component, Flux 50 works for me on 845SET. BPT 3.5 Sig. provides optimum for me on everything other than amps, nothing more, nothing less.
Whatever it is, I'm swiftly coming to an end on cleaning up streaming network, already at an end on system ac cleaning. Network Acoustics Muon filter will be last attempt at network cleaning.
Now on to something I've been thinking about posting for some time now, this in relation to 005 ultimate potential. Ever since purchase of 005 nearly three years ago now, I've been on determined path to hear full potential of 005, this through upgrades and mods totally devoted to maximizing resolution and transparency of system. I mostly let voicing take care of itself, if 005 had some major colorations they'd be discovered with greater system resolution and transparency, and I could adjust for minor colorations with incremental changes via resistors, capacitors, different diy power cable wire. Well, I'm finally at virtual dead end of possible mods and upgrades within present system, and I can hardly believe my complete satisfaction with the level of audio reproduction I'm experiencing! I really have no need to change a thing, nothing on the 'wish list'.
How all this pertains to 005 is that this level of performance couldn't have been attained without it. I originally purchased 005 only as audition piece, one more dac in what was assumed to be long line of dac auditions. The 005 came shortly after auditions with 004, Okto DAC8 stereo, Mola Mola Tambaqui or Holo May KTE were to be next in line, and who knows from there. I assumed and was prepared to spend up to $20k on dac. And so, here I am, three years later, and 005 still in system and providing an amazing level of sound quality such that no replacement dac being contemplated. At this point I'd confidently recommend this dac for any system, including cost no object, could easily be destination dac for many. $3k may seem too cheap for some, don't be fooled, match it with best preamp one can afford, you have extreme high end source.
@sns@boxer12Thank you both for taking the time out to indulge me and try the Furutech Flux 50 with your 005's.
Obviously a mixed bag also including @steakster's results. The Flux 50 is really meant for high current or full system applications so I guess it's overkill for a single component.
I'm very happy and pleasantly surprised with the Furutech Flow-15 Plus which is just an EMI filter, I believe, without NCF materials and meant to be used with single components.
I will be swapping it around in the next few weeks to see what results it gives me with my pre-amp and server.
Less Loss make similar devices but much more expensive.
@lordmeltonI don't recall, but are you using power conditioning? The reason I ask is using multiple ac cleaning devices may have detrimental effect. It may also be possible more than one of these devices daisy chained may have positive effect, BPT provides all the cleaning I need. Paying attention to great whole house ground is likely the most important aspect of clean ac, this I did!
In more general theme, I've found over the years, less is often more with audio. When you get the fundamentals right, less of these add on devices needed.
Back to Furutech filter, first attempt at noise reduction with Furutech devices was IEC receptacle from these guys with filter built in, used this with my former Art Audio Carissa Signature 845SET amp to good effect. Wonder if that guy would fit in side 005?
”In more general theme, I’ve found over the years, less is often more with audio. When you get the fundamentals right, less of these add on devices needed.”
Very astute observation. This is why I was pretty confident that you’d find the BPT unit enough on its own. It is certainly possible to go overboard at times with regard to High End audio endeavors.
BTW, quite a compelling case you made for the Musetec 005 being suitable for Uber level audio systems. Although obviously there will be disagreement with this. Certainly one could imagine that it’d be reasonably competitive. Good insight as usual.
My reasoning for 005 as being suitable for even highest echelon systems comes from the assumption I still haven't reached it's full resolving/transparency capabilities. Until I no longer hear improvements in this will continue with this assumption. So, in order to test this hypothesis I need to continue with upgrades, not going to happen with preamp, amps, speakers, and/or the individual parts and components within them (still experimenting with streaming setup). I'm at destination here, since pleasure with listening experience unsurpassed and age dictates I don't want to build another system from scratch. More contextually, my present system is pretty high end, pretty well over $100k, which means 005 is already performing very well in high end environment, and likely to continue performing very well in an even higher end environment, at least I'm making that assumption.
So, we come to voicing, resolution/transparency is one issue, I'll presume many dacs perform at very high level here, likely even better with future innovations in digital (until we reach limits of 16/44 which has already far surpassed what people thought possible years ago). Assuming 005 in top hiearchy here, I assess 005 as having perfect voicing for highest end systems, I find it completely neutral, really sort of without voice. It is capable of portraying real live performers in room, I can't believe how many times I've felt the actual presence of these beings in my room, like a concert for one. And it does this with vast, vast majority of recordings I listen to, certainly a heightened sense with the best recordings.
And so, based on my experience 005 capable of bringing the illusion of live performers in room. Assuming this is intent of audiophile system building in general, a higher end system than mine should only heighten these aspects of 005 performance. Now, I'm not implying there aren't dacs with equal or higher capabilities than 005, just saying 005 is high end without typical price of what is considered high end.
There are two things about 005 that will preclude it from being regarded as high end dac, THE PRICE and Chinese origin. Funny how audiophiles perceive value as a negative trait when it comes to audio components. And then the political connotations of Chinese products when in fact their own wherever sourced audio component chock full of Chinese parts.
@snsYes I use a Plixir 1000W balanced power conditioner for everything except my power amp, which goes directly into the wall.
Yes the Furutech IEC inlets I would certainly consider, even over the Schaffner's but I don't believe Furutech make them with inbuilt fuseholders. That's another reason I bought the Furutech Flow-15 Plus.
It's a shame because the 005 uses a Furutech IEC fused inlet as standard.
I'm glad to hear that you are finally coming to peace with your 005. Believe me there isn't anything significantly better under $20k or more that I know of, and everyone seems to be realising as of late, how much more of everything good pre-amps can extract from the 005.
I also look forward to your report on the Muon if you decide to get one, it certainly looks interesting and maybe better value than an expensive Ethernet cable.
@lordmeltonYeah, I do recall the Furutech IEC I used with prior amp didn't have built in fuse holder. One could always add one of those separate screw in type fuse holder, but would require drilling hole in 005, junctioning wires off IEC to fuse holder, sort of big hassle.
You know it has been sort of difficult getting my head wrapped around a $3k dac being this good in an objective sense, Certainly its always been extremely good in a subjective sense, but vast majority of us buy into notion price has direct correlation to sound quality, and the vast majority of time, it does have that correlation. I'm sure we've all observed some proponents of some relatively low priced component that supposed to be giant killer, mostly turns out to be delusion. This leaves one cynical there will ever be component that meets above criteria. And so most assume giant killers don't exist and never will, all such components delusional conclusions arrived at by those who can't afford better. There has been a number of times during 005 ownership I've procured the funds to purchase much more expensive dac, but the damn 005 always got in the way by sounding so good, and having proved it's potential through previous upgrades. Result is those dac funds always going to other upgrades to try and determine 005 potential!
And contextually, we continue and hope to see future comparisons to much more expensive dacs, 005 seems to be holding it's own thus far. I'll also return to the value equation in that I see 005 as absolutely requiring top notch preamp to partner with. Suddenly, 005 price/value comparison comes more into focus. Still, I assume any dac without analog volume control will have same preamp need, so now I reevaluate price/value comparison yet again!
@sns& @lordmelton, If the 005's analog output stage is the real deal and has enough output voltage, would a viable value solution be the new Lumin U2 Mini utilizing its Leedh lossless volume control the reviewers rave about?
@klh007Looks pretty interesting. Based on my experience 005 best with active linestage, in my case tubes. My take is 005 likes what tubes add, don't believe I'd like any passive or ss pre with 005, as usual your system and tastes may differ from mine Only passive I've used is Schitt Saga+.
Sure analog output stage has enough voltage to run passive, also provides a very nice flavor to delta sigma chips, which are generally thought of being rather analytical, sterile. It wasn't the flavor of Saga wasn't my cup of tea, rather mostly lacking in resolving/transparency area, had nice enough drive, just not up to my Coincident Statement pre, which has massive power supply for a pre. 005 deserves best pre one can afford, potential of this dac extremely high.
As with sns , I also own the Coincident Statement Line stage which is a brilliant combination of very high resolution and utter naturalness. A friend of mine owned the VAC Signature IIa for about 5 or 6 years. I’ve heard it during multiple and long listening sessions over those years. I think that you’ll be just fine.
Any of the owners experimented with power cords with the 005 ? I have couple in my arsenal that I wanted to try but thought of asking if you have a preference ?
Btw, at one time I owned 3 Furutech Flux 50 NCF version but I didn't keep any of them.
@lordmelton- No problem at all. It has been a fun experiment. As stated before, I liked the sound of my system better with the Flux 50 going to the power amp than going into the 005... But also liked the improvement it made to the DAC (lower noise floor) when placed there. That has prompted me to add a passive ground filter to the outlet powering the amp while leaving the Flux 50 running directly into the 005 DAC. This has produced a nice sonic improvement that I will leave as is for further evaluation.
@klh007I do like VAC, one of their amps was on short list of possible purchases some years ago, I expect that would be nice combo with 005.
@debjit_gI've only used diy power cables based on recipes @willywonkahas developed over the past few years. They're called Helix Image, the particular recipes I've been using are the best power cables I've either auditioned or owned. I'd like to think I'm fairly experienced with pc as I auditioned many over the years through lending library at Cable Company.
My Helix provide unsurpassed transparency, resolution and dynamics very nice. My favorite recipe is built with VH Audio Airlock wire, number of runs depends on component its powering. The only other high end pc I have at present is VH Audio Airsine, also very nice, went with them at end of auditioning process. Other pc's I recall having good results with were Shunyata Anaconda, Purist Audio Design Dominus, top of line Synergistic, I'm sure there were others, can't bring them to mind at the moment.
As for connectors I like the better Furutechs, also Connex brand from Partsconnexion, I get these exact connectors cryo version from Chinese seller, really quite nice at much more affordable price.
@debjit_g
I've been happy using Viborg VP1606 power cable first recommended by a cable guru on another site. My first was long and I had to terminate it, not so easily done as it's a big cable. Since then I see that they are available terminated, and at Amazon. The only negative is that they are quite stiff. Since as Musetec folks we like to look inside, here's what's inside the Viborg. Scroll down.
I gather that the Muon ($1312) is an Ethernet filter at a higher level than the Eno filter ($704) from the same source. Both are entirely passive devices. Have you (or anyone else here) used either of them? Do other devices in the chain have the same or similar effect?
Also, placed between a switch and a streamer, there seems to be no need for the extra streaming cable offered. Would that be correct?
@melmYou are correct on Muon. Based on positive reviews from trusted sources want to try. To this point I've tried an audiophile switch and generic FMC in the exact position Muon will go (between router and server) without success. Prefer my router using lps plugged into BPT power conditioner with high end cable direct to server superior. In case of switch I had to add the switch itself plus an extra ethernet cable to server and NAS. In case of FMC, adding two FMC, two lps, optical cable, one ethernet cable, both lps plugged into BPT with high end power cables.
So, yes, adding these devices added to complexity of streaming, perhaps its all this added complexity that produced inferior sound. Straight wire concept at work here, simpler better? Muon will be less complex in that it's passive device, will be only adding one ethernet cable (which comes with Muon) to entire streaming setup.
Keep in mind, my entire streaming setup seems to be one in a million. I have both modem and router very close to my audio system, cable feed comes into my dedicated audio room. I have only 1M AQ Vodka from modem to router, 1.5M AQ Vodka router to server and NAS. No rendering with server, two ethernet ports on server, so one ethernet can go out directly to streamer(in my case FMC to OpticalRendu) no need to have switch. Now, I suspect it would be nice to replace router with audiophile switch, but I absolutely need wifi in house, router likely my weakest link, can't be helped. But then vast majority using router and switch, how many can go without router? Router remains in chain in vast majority of setups, I think many forget about this. My take is ROUTER CLOSE TO SERVER, better than any ROUTER PLUS AUDIOPHILE SWITCH streaming setup. Simpler is better, straight wire concept.
The 'tards over at ASR are in a feeding frenzy picking over the bones of a Chord Dave.
Conclusions
I always considered Chord products excellent but over designed. I now have to change that. The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. It is bested easily by DACs at $150. Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. It is a pretty DAC but usability is left behind. In my listening tests, I could detect no attribute that made it sound special. No, this is not a controlled test but neither are the reports to the contrary! Regardless, company's claim to fame is exacting implementation with concepts such as -300 dB and noise modulation mattering. So what is up then with my measurements?
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Not sure I've observed a wider variety of subjective reviews than from Dave. Lots of these out in field in wide variety of systems, still don't know what to make of this dac after all these years.
A dis by ASR may be considered a purchasing recommendation.
I've only used diy power cables based on recipes @willywonkahas developed over the past few years. They're called Helix Image, the particular recipes I've been using are the best power cables I've either auditioned or owned.
@snsYes, I am very familiar with the helix config but I haven't tried the power cable yet. Good to hear the 005 has a great synergy. Maybe its worth exploring for me as well. My current thinking is the 005 will probably like occ copper based pc.
@melmI have used Viborg accessories, banana and spade lugs for DIY speaker cables in the past and they are extremely well made and solidly built. No doubt their power cords are up to the snuff. If you don't mind asking, what else have you compared to ?
@debjit_g
Comparison is only to the best Supra power cable that I terminated. I don't believe what power cables have to do is all that complicated: deliver and shield. If we are able to look inside a DAC and make some assumptions about what we may hear, surely a power cable is a much simpler investigation. Some time in May, when I discovered them on Amazon, a 1.5 meter Viborg MBU1606 terminated cable was selling on Prime for $61.72. Many months before I had bought a long length of the unterminated Viborg cable and set it up for my amp, a distance from an outlet. Terminating this thick cable was a trial. At the price on Prime It was a no brainer for me to buy a few. And Amazon has a very easy return policy. I'm satisfied with the buy. As usual YMMV.
Last month I posted about lending a friend of mine the Musetec 005 to hear with his RAAL VM-1a headphone amp. Yesterday I picked up the DAC. The VM-1a is a tube headphone amp for both the RAAL-Requisite CA-1a and SR1a headphones.
I also have all of this RAAL-Requisite gear, and when used with my Benchmark DAC3B, it was the very best sound I have had in my office, and maybe the best I have ever heard anywhere (no physical room to deal with). Stereophile will have a review on this combo soon (not sure which DAC).
This setup is so good that I sold my Thiel CS3.7 floor standers a few weeks ago and bought the KEF LS50 Meta this week to try and recreate the resolution, speed, and clarity I am hearing on this amp and headphones. I also have KEF KC62 sub.
When I first heard the Musetec 005 on the VM-1a and SR1a and CA-1a headphones I was very underwhelmed. It just sounded subdued and not exciting at all. My friend commented the same observation to me on the 005. It just does not work on this tube amp.
I put in my Benchmark DAC3B, the same DAC that I heard when I demoed the amp, and the sound just opened up an became this reference level quality that I am raving about to everyone. I am not sure why the 005 sounds so boring on the VM-1a.
However, on my old LS50 (waiting on delivery of LS50 Meta) the Musetec 005 | CODA 07x | Benchmark AHB2 mono are excellent. The Benchmark DAC3B does not sound as good as the 005 on this system. I am excited to see what the Meta will do to the sound. I do not expect to be as good as the VM-1a. I have a Livingroom system that I am building that may be able to scale the heights of the VM-1a. I will likely use the Musetec 005 with that system (may need a 2nd one).
Luckily, I have 2 Sonore OpticalRendu’s setup in my office to have both DACs in play for the VM-1a and also my 2-channel system.
it is a perhaps rather overdue, but i wanted to post a follow-up to what i had promised several weeks back, comparing the 005 to the weiss 501 sonically
my time trying to do the comparison was interspersed with some initial confusion over what i was hearing as i tried to make a clean comparison and derive solid conclusions, and then was ’interrupted’ with an east coast trip, and then, another ’break’ in my unexpectedly getting a different set of speakers and needing to dial in subs for them, all of which werein effect ’distractions’ from this specific task
at this point, i’m confident i have clear observations/conclusions, and have confirmed these pre and post trips and by also going back also to the older speaker/amp setup to double check, and further, by using different weiss inputs (lan and usb) and also compared both sets of outputs (xlr and rca) on both units
one thing that made things a little difficult and confusing at the outset in this comparison is that, while both the weiss and the 005 have variable volume, they were not exactly well synced --as the increments on both are 0.5 db per step, but they always seemed a bit off in perceived loudness - ultimately, i used the ol’ voltmeter-at-the-speaker posts method, using several test tones, to set properly equal volumes, 005 set at -0.5 db and the weiss at -3.5 db, as a spot on match
so these comments are only about the sonic differences i could discern, the weiss has a host of dsp features, parametric eq, bass/room eq, de-essing, a very long list... some i consider goofy and over the top, others are very useful (e.g., room mode management, para eq) - but my comments are with all these features OFF and the 005 using its slow filter (i think its best sound) -- three main observations, perhaps somewhat inter-related to a degree...
1) fairly easily noticeable is that weiss has slightly leaner midbass and the 005 has that small degree of lower midrange/midbass ’body’ or ’fattening’ (also referenced in my prior bricasti m1 comparison), and this difference gives the weiss a sense of slightly greater clarity (but not more actual detail i don’t think) - low ’true’ bass tonality, quality and weight are very equal, both outstanding
2) weiss has a somewhat deeper image and more distant central image positioning, coupled with a more dynamic presentation -- as alluded to earlier, the 005 to my ear has a slightly more closed-in quality to playing the main voice(s) and instruments in center stage, less air, more up close ’intimate’ feeling - similar to the bricasti, the weiss seems to locate the central figure(s) deeper in the soundstage yet with more specificity and clearer outlines, and then, in louder passages, the weiss would expand dynamically with more contrast - this aspect had me confused for a good while and led me to closely scrutinizing the volume settings, as louder passages seemed louder and softer passages seemed softer on the weiss -- once again, listened to on its own i would never ever say the 005 lacks dynamicism or seems compressed, with comparing a vs b the difference is noticeable and repeatable between how the 2 dacs play music
3) the weiss, like the bricasti, has a slightly more relaxed, more open, more ’analog’ presentation than the 005, this difference is again quite slight but it is there, 005 just a touch mechanical sounding, the weiss flows with a somewhat greater ease - once again i speculate this may be achieved in weiss’ oversampling (to 195khz) in the d/a conversion via the dual ess chipset - i think the bricasti is even a little more ’liquid’ than the weiss but that direct a/b is next for me, i am saying this here from admittedly unreliable sonic recollection of the m1 at this point
so overall, i think the 005 acquits itself very well, and for the price, very well indeed... the differences sonically are small, weiss a touch more open, dynamic, more fluid, but listened on its own the 005 sounds wonderful, more intimate presentation, a touch of warmth with excellent, and natural detail retrieval, imaging quality is very good (if surpassed by the more expensive dacs)
i won’t debate the relative value of the weiss, its form factor, its streaming capability, it manifold features, that is up to a specific buyer to decide what they value
While I don't have a comparison dac at present, I hear some of the qualities you mentioned in regard to 005.
My sound stage not deepest I've heard, some relatively recent upgrades, tweaks have helped, but I'd still say more forward than recessed sound stage. In my setup I'd not call it a liability, very satisfying layering, three dimensional images. Like close to stage perspective, but not in your face.
I've experienced variable image specificity and outlines dependent on certain streaming components in my chain.
Again, thanks for the review, comparison to higher cost dac's are appreciated, I like to know what I may possibly be missing.
There is absolutely no benefit whatsoever in promoting the 005 over the Weiss, I can hear the howling and gnashing of teeth if just a hint was mentioned.
I have compared the 501, 502 and the Medea to the 005 and I would choose the 005 in every case, not priced on cost alone.
Immediately putting a fully burned in 005 up against either of the above produces a monstrous soundstage which the Weisses are just not capable of.
The system I compared them in, over several days, consisted of Vitus pre-amp and monoblocks (103s) and Eggleston Works Savoy and Sondheim Speakers, fed by an Aurender N30.
Only the Meadea could come close to the 005. Weiss is coloured and compartmentalizes the music, whereas the 005 is far more dynamic and rhythmic. Maybe I give a point to Weiss on vocals but only slightly. Otherwise it’s hands down to the 005.
Regarding analogue or vinyl sounding when is everyone going to give up on this??? Music hasn’t been mastered in analogue for close to forty years and MOFI has just been caught using DSD masters to create vinyl...lol.
The 501 uses ESS 9018K2M dac-chips where the 005 uses 9038’s. There is no information on Weiss’ website just says they use the latest chips.
Oh Weiss does offer vinyl mode if digital is too harsh for you.
I believe that @jjss49gave his totally honest impression of two very fine DACs. I also believe that @lordmeltondid the exact same. There’s nothing surprising that they reach somewhat different perspectives. This is what I’d expect e when comparing highly competent DACs as judged through different ears and via different audio systems. The essence of High End audio subjectivity, It seems very clear that the Musetec 005 is a very high level DAC in sonic performance if not necessarily price.
i simply don’t get why people seem to get defensive, uptight, and angry... bringing bad energy, negative mojo, to a pursuit that should be purely for enjoyment 🤷🤷♀️
this is just well intentioned information sharing among knowledgeable and dedicated hobbyists, from one person’s point of view and based on one person’s effort... no one really gives a sh*t about anyone else’s system -- i do try to communicate my thoughts with some care, in a way that does not put down anything/anyone
we are all just trying to do the best we can with what we have assembled, understand the lay of the land in terms of alternative equipment, striving improve it where possible and sensible...
I believe both @jjss49, @lordmeltonhonest in their appraisals. In my present setup I concur with some of the sound characteristics both have related. Per usual in audio, no absolute winners, wouldn't expect anything else.
One must always be mindful comparisons are always informed by much more than component under review. I read @jjss49review as slight preference for Weiss, with specific sound qualities of both dacs explained within context of HIS setup. The specific sound qualities mentioned in post could sway any particular individual towards 005 depending on present voicing of audio system. I don't perceive this comparison as dis on 005.
@snsPer usual in audio, no absolute winners, wouldn't expect anything else.
Agree 100%
Why the “need” to always have to crown and declare an absolute and undisputed winner. I’ve never found this to be the reality in High End audio. @jjss49your efforts are much appreciated.
I don't see this discussion as a who's best scenario but rather more as a paradigm shift in the industry where most if not all of these highly priced DAC offerings offer little to no performance advantage over Musetec, Holo May and Terminator.
Traditionally price was directly proportional to hi-end sound, occasionally we get a cable or accessory that seriously outperforms, however it's rare.
It's still impossible to build hi-end pre and power amps, turntables and speakers cheaply. DACs on the other-hand mostly use the same chips and are either delta sigma or R2R, take your choice.
Therefore even though the Chinese have tried to copy Levinson, Spectral, FM Acoustics etc., they can't do it. Mainly because the cost of the components and technologies involved.
A DAC is another matter and since many western companies have outsourced to China for years it's no surprise they have a very good handle on DACs.
The 005 has never fallen short or been outclassed in any system I've put it into. 005 users here have recently been discussing how much better performance they can achieve with decent pre-amps. Pairing a 005 with a Coda preamp for example will provide a formidable combination for about $10k, the starting price of these expensive DACs.
Both the Bricasti and Weiss DACs oversample this means you cannot use industry leading software like HQ Player.
Call me old school but I don't want my digital signal enhanced in any way, I want to hear what comes directly off the CD or file or stream.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the understanding of the 005.
Call me old school but I don't want my digital signal enhanced in any way, I want to hear what comes directly off the CD or file or stream.
I share the same mindset and perspective. There is a huge DAC marketplace with many choices and one can find what they want. I thought @jjss49comments were exceedingly complimentary toward the 005.His opinion does not invalid another's opinion or listening impressions. If High End Audio is anything, it is unavoidably subjective. Which is a good thing.
Pairing a 005 with a Coda preamp for example will provide a formidable combination for about $10k, the starting price of these expensive DACs.
I have the CODA 07x preamp (their top unit). However, it is now sitting idle because the Benchmark LA4 preamp + Musetec 005 + Benchmark AHB2 monos sound slightly better to my ears. The pre and DAC total around $5600. This is with a KEF LS50 in my office.
I love the LA4 + 005 combo. I am flipping back and forth about selling the CODA 07x and getting a second LA4 and second 005 (almost certain on the 005). The CODA 07x is getting a new external power supply in a few months so I want to try that with the 005 first before I decide.
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