I'm just curious if McIntosh gear is all that great. How does their older power amps compare to new products from other high end manufactures? Are there any products I should stay away from. I like the idea of owning vintage McIntosh stuff. Most of their stuff seems pricy. Is it because it's that good or do people just like to collect their products. thanks for you opinions--Matt
I will speak to the MHA50 DAC/ Amp for headphones. Answer is absolutely not. There are much better options. Why?
1. Dual DAC isn't always better, but in this case you can immediately tell the single DAC doesn't provide the staging required for the beauty of something like Grado cans. It's there, but not on par w/ the quality of the headphones.
2. The connector tolerances are poor, and others have complained that their 3.5mm jack doesn't fit right. My microUSB jack never fit right, and I had to tape wires and stabilize the unit to get a connection. Very poor for $750.
3. My unit's battery expanded and cracked the glass cover, breaking the touch-sensitive volume control I already hated. Now it doesn't work, and cold-start levels aren't usable. See above - so now it's taped and rubber-banded together but barely emits any sound (in hard to drive cans) so it's useless. Though I wouldn't toy with a defective battery, and this may be charging logic as I kept my connected for ...a year straight (listening 12+ hours/ day at work believe it or not).
4. Service - it wasn't the $300 they wanted to repair my unit, it was the attitude. I have other McIntosh gear and it's solid, but the principle was enough to drive me away. I'll shop other vendors henceforth.
McIntosh power is hard to match. Their amplifiers are absolute in this regard, though the definition, staging, front/ back (usually back-ish) and shape aren't for everyone. You do have to match speakers fairly closely, IMHO, and I had a nice match (old Cantons made in W. Germany, that's how old - and an old non-tube amp) so it was nice, but the mids sounded somewhat pronounced and over-pushed, despite being back in the staging. The low-end power, bass, smoothness, tightness...that's classic McIntosh to me so wire up a monoblock to a sub and go that route, then find something with the finesse you want from the speakers you prefer. It may not be a McIntosh...speakers first, then amp IMHO.
But avoid the MHA50 unless you want to start a fire or replace the battery after a year of use - for almost half the cost of the unit (and surely a 12-week turnaround - no priority for a cheap unit for sure).
It’s iconically great-sounding gear and THAT’S the reason its value is comparatively inflation-proof. Like Nak’s analog cassette decks, it’s the target at which other brands (Sunfire, PL, Carver, Pioneer SPEC, Superscope Marantz, etc) have paid the ultimate compliment by similarly voicing (and designing) their gear. Essentially, they gave the rest of the industry something at which to "plink away". These other manufacturer’s best efforts are similarly collectible now, but along with a few other first-gen designers (Avery Fisher, Saul Marantz’ first designs, et al) "no them-no whomever else-you fill in the blank" that has come along since, is pretty close to being an inarguably self-evident truth. These other (also esteemed) manufacturers exploited the economies of scale. To momentarily argue the flip side of that narrative, the appearance/ergonomics and, deadweight-metric-tonnage build quality is at least 50% of the attraction for most buyers. That annoys McPurists and I’m one of them. But whether it’s the icing or the cake under the icing is for each of us to decide for ourselves.
nice system there. I use a MC462 (with two JL e112 subs) on a pair of Thiels and I imagine the Sopra 2 is a perfect match. I am looking to pick up a pair of used Sopra 2s or Revel 228be/328be sometime this year. The revels match well with Mac gear too.
To the original poster. Yes I think Mac gear is worth it, if you don’t mind spending money on looks (I don’t to a point). It sounds nice, is built well and looks nice. It has pride of ownership which is part of highend.
Back in the late 70's/early 80's I worked in the high end audio business and always loved the McIntosh equipment we sold, but thought I'd never be able to afford to own it.
Fast forward a few decades and I enjoy a McIntosh tube preamp and solid state power amp, which pair very well with the other equipment I own.
I do have a stack of PS Audio equipment, as I enjoy the SQ of their DirectStream DAC and their power conditioning equipment, it also pairs well with the McIntosh separates.
I've heard other setups driving the Focal speakers I own and (IMO) the McIntosh amp I own drives them better.
I have always thought the looks are very cool, in an old school retro kind of way. In a friend's system I heard the sound seemed pretty soft and romantic to my ears but I don't know if that was a result of the Mac preamp and amp being used.
the older McIntosh tubes amps, The MC30, The MC225, MC240, and MC275 are music lovers amps. They just sound like real music and you can listen all day long.
Auditioned a mac amp with sonus faber speaks and the music hall CD player, Pink Floyd the wall cd.
Sat in the room, he left us, I (I mentioned this before) had my 2-3 year old kid w me, no kidding, after maybe 4-6 minutes, and my kids fidgeting demeanor, whining, crying, etc, the lil one was sound asleep, as I nearly was. There is a magic to some components, and that was amazing.
I would say, yes, Mac gear is great stuff, and reliable, or at least the rumors are reliability. How is their customer service after warranty? Big bucks I’m sure. For some of the audio gear, I would expect more warranties like Bryston, Odyssey, Sanders, BIC, ETC.
those 1K watt mono’s have been o n my list since they came out. Probably won’t happen. as you can’t buy Mac used and have a warranty. Don’t like that.
Like many such threads, the OP did in fact get the answer he was looking for, yet it has gone unnoticed. Scroll back through and find the responses that specifically mention music.
In my humble opinion.....mac components do not sound good at all. With that said....I admit I have never owned any of their stuff. I have auditioned them in listening rooms for years and it always goes back to the same thing and that is that I really want to like the sound but there is never anything there. They do look great though!! Maybe it is that the person controlling the equipment is not giving it time to warm up which might be the case. There are 3 companies that many people love and I will never own 1. Bose 2. B&W speakers and 3. Mac. I understand why people like them but in the long run they seem like they don't compete with other high end (of course bose is not considered high end). I do quite honestly believe that some people are hearing the music differently than others. As stated in this forum a musician likes Mac so there has to be something that some people are possibly not hearing. I consider myself an audiophile that has worked in the business for a few years. It has been said that audiophiles (not all) don't really like mac gear. It could also be that the mac sound is too full sounding for audiophiles and it sounds good to some but not to others??
As a professional musician, I can tell you without a doubt that there is nothing like owning a Mac. I bought an MA 6100 in 1976. I still have it to this day. It still outperforms anything produced from over seas in its class. I'm constantly offered more than double what I paid. It handles high resolution music with ease. And here's the kicker. IT'S NEVER BEEN SERVICED. So yes, they are worth every penny you pay for a mac. It's an investment. A very worthwhile one.
it IS great reliable gear. It does LOOK amazing. is it WORTH the money they charge.....NO.
if i had the money, i might think about buying a piece or two. but there is so much out there which sounds better.
I think my Mccormack amps sound livelier, and just have more oomph to them in the bottom end. JUST my opinion. yes i have heard many mac amps, they are good, but are they the best, nope.
Yes, they are the best. That why they been around and getting bigger for the last 60 years. Look what happen to those so call hight end audiophile Company. such as Western Electric, Sonic frontier....etc. And more of them will be out of business going forward and McIntosh will be still around.
Another vote for 402. I've actually heard 452 that is slightly more powerful, but what I heard isn't solid state or tube performance. It's just a Mac that is capable to show how it can sound to take the best from both worlds. Their preamps are almost all full function with number of features outnumbering any conventional audio preamplifier sold on the market today. The component price for vintage equipment is growing and not going down.
Have a Mac 230, 1700 and 275. Worth more now than I paid for them. The MA230 is over 35 years old. Just had it recapped and sounds great. Mac used to be a the pinnacle of the price chart. Now you are able to buy half the product at 10 times the price. Still pine over my Pair of Mac 240s hooked to my Marantz 7C.
I've also recently purchased my first piece of Mac gear - a MC2102 tube amp. I'm using it to drive my Watt puppy 6.0's and I have to say it sounds just fabulous - open, airy and inviting. It replaced a BAT VK-60, which I still have, and a CJ 11A (which I'm using in a second system - I can't seem to part with anything).
I'm not looking to upgrade anytime soon, but when I do it will probably be with a second 2102 - I love it!
I don't know, but I just bought a MC2102 here on Audiogon and I'll find out how good it is as soon as it gets here. I plan to bi-amp w/the MC2102 for the mid/high and 2 channels of my B&K ref 7250 for the bottom end. One thing's for sure, they sure hold their value because the one I bought wasn't cheap.
My journey to audiophile bliss started about 20 years ago, when I first heard my best friends Mcintosh gear. At that time he was running a Mac cd player(not sure what model), Mac 34v pre, Mac 2205 amp, oracle delphi turntable, Kef 104 speakers, and audioquest cables. My system at the time consisted of mostly good old solid Pioneer gear from the 70's, which was considered audiophile gear at the time. The first time I heard my friends Mac gear I was so blown away, I knew right then and there I would have Mac gear someday. Well it's taken me about 20 years to finally put together the finest system I have ever owned. Here is what my system consist of. 2 Mac 7200 power amps(each running mono for 600 watts per channel), Mac C37 Pre(chose this Mac pre because of the EQ feature and matches the Mac 7200s perfecly), Project Perspective TT with Sumiko Blackbird cartridge, Furman 20 PFi ac conditioner, Aerial 9 speakers, Velodyne 12" servo subwoofer, Straightwire cables and the rescently purchased Mac MVP universal player. Oh and what about my best friends gear? He has only added a Sonic Frontiers dac, the same Velodyne sub as mine and Tara Labs cables. Everything else remains the same and sounds just as good as the first time I had heard, if not better with the additions.
The Ref 3 mates with any amp well. It has a very low output impedance. I cannot speak more highly of the Ref3. Supremely versatile and great sound. Sounds great balanced or single-ended. I have no desire to audition any more preamps or power amps. It is a nice feeling!
Dbarger, how does your ARC Ref 3 mate up with the MC402? This past w.e. I heard a demo of the new C2300 & MC250 driving the Quad 2805's, so you bet I'm envious. Some though have complained of an impedence mismatch between Mac amp and Arc pre.....hogwash?
RWD, I like the 402 because it just does not sound like either a SS amp or a tube amp. I liked tube amps because they sounded the most like what I heard in real life, but the 402 is even better in that regard, plus it is more detailed and supremely musical. Images just seem to have less cardboard cutout and more body. Previously all the SS amps I have tried, which include some very notable ones, have all clearly sounded like solid state, with an electronic signature. The 402 does not have this signature. It also shows that what I previously thought was sibilance inherent in some recordings was an artifact of my system. I have always had a pretty clean system, but now with my Ref3, MC402, and Quads it is like a microscope on the recording. Many old favorites have new details exposed that are frankly a little disconcerting.
Dbarger, this is the second recommendation I have read about McIntosh solid state amps-especially the 402. I too am interested in the MC275 amp. I have the old Infinity RS 1-B's that have ALWAYS been powered with a tube amp on the mids and tweeter's. First it was the ARC 100 mkll and now the ASL Hurricanes. I was considering 2 MAC's MC275 but I would like to hear more from you (and others) about their SS amps and why they should so good to you? When the RS 1-B's came out they (Infinity-Nudell) recommended using tubes on the top. I use a Perreaux 3150B amp for the woofers.
When I owned my VT100 mk3, which replaced a much loved 4 year affair with a Mk2, I brought home an MC275 for a couple of nights, and did not feel it was better than the ARC. When I brought home the MC402, I could not sell both my VT100 mk3 and my VT200 fast enough. I thought tubes were the closest path to reality, but the 402 changed that big time. My advice, try one before you buy the 275.
I have an Audio Research VT-100 Mk II, but I have toyed with the idea of selling it and getting a McIntosh MC275. Has anybody compared the two amps? I would be interested in hearing people's opinions about how these two amps would compare sonically. My speakers are Acoustic Zen Adagio.
I just inherited my father's system which includes Mac 60s (2) amps and an Mac 20 preamp, both purchased new in 1958! They had been unused for 6 years and they sound great.
I think Mcintosh amps look great and sound pretty good. I have heard quite a few of them in my day. They are kind of like Harley Davidson's, tough, powerful, and definitely have a following. And by no means am I knocking them as a company or as a finely built American product,but for my money, I don't run with the pack. Spectral and Halcro are where I'd put my money.
i recently reviewed the c 220 preamp. it will be available for your reading pleasure in a few weeks on the website audiophilia.com.
i also own the 275 amp.
what is greatness ?
i have no answer, as it is too subjective and moot.
i found the preamp free of any significant deviations from neutrality. the amp needs some tube changes before i have any serious comments. with the stock tubes, the sound is threadbare.
If you want something that is all but bullet-proof, and will last as long as you care to have it, buy McIntosh, especially the amplifiers. I have an MC2255, one of the greatest amplifiers they ever built. I also have an MC352. I worked for an audio dealer while getting my Bachelor's degree and someone brought in a MC2255 that came in for service. It had be dropped and had several heavy items dropped on it. I looked terrible, but it was put on a bench and worked perfectly and sounded great, regardless of all the damage done to it. After is was restored it was an absolutely beautiful amplifier. I decided then that oneday I was going to buy one. I've had mine for probably 10 years now without it ever having any issue. The last one was made in 1984 and sold for about $2500 new. Mine, which shows just a bit of it's age, cosmetically, is worth more over 20 years later than it was new. There aren't many pieces of electronics that can boast that.
Did you know the U.S. Navy uses McIntosh amplifiers to drive their sonar? Why, because they need something they can rely on and doesn't fail. Considering the price tag of a nuclear submarine, seems the navy could have just about anything they want. McIntosh was obviously what they wanted.
Mac gear has weathered the test of time. To this day the older pieces particularly the tuners sound wonderful.
All Mac components are built to almost industrial standards; most parts are still available and should the need for repairs and/or alignments arise both the Mac factory and companies such as Audio Classics provide professional service.
I have listened to Mac gear for almost all of my 54 years on the planet and I couldn't imagine life without a piece of McIntosh gear somewhere in the house.
When asked about my idea of a "dream system" I reply that I really want four: A big Genesis/IRS type system for large scale orchestral music in a great sounding room big enough to support it all, a tube/Quad system for gentle chamber and acoustic folk music in another good sounding, but smaller room, old KLH model 21's everywhere in the house for background music and in the party room: a Mac C-20, an MR-71, a pair of MC 240's in mono and a pair of Altec 604E's. I own that last system, and while it is not as accurate as my "big rig reference" (SOTA, Theta, cj, Bryston, Infinity RS2B's) system, everytime I fire it up it makes music and lots of it, the kind that makes me smile and very sorry I have to turn it off to go to bed or work. It's a fun system to listen to.
If I was limited to owning and listening to just one system for the rest of my life, I'd probably pick my old Mac gear, because it's proven itself to be extremely musical, enjoyable and reliable over the long haul (and you've got to agree that forty years with many more to come is a very long haul).
I question whether this post will make it here, and I'm no krell basher at all, but I read the comments about McIntosh Gear being considerably overpriced, but yet rarely ever read a comment about krell, or Levinson gear being overpriced.
Usually I note that many krell owners spring $9K, $12K, and up, but something like a 600, 650, 750 Amp, and in four months, the Amp is back at Krell getting some "latest greatest" improvement/upgrade.
I realize that perhaps some in the hobby have more money than sense when they buy ultra-expensive gear, and maybe go out, and buy $75K worth of gear just like they'll go out and buy a $70K BMW, as a "status symbol", but, I don't clearly understand the reasoning behind these owners quickly sending the gear back for some mod? If the equipment is so good (which it probably no doubt is) whay are many of these Krell owners so compelled to rush this gear back to improve it? At it's cost, is should be able to stand on its own laurels, without needed some hot mod/update every few months? My reasoning is they "hopefully" bought the gear because they liked the sound. Evidently a few months later some must be coming to conclusions that thier sound is NOT satisfying them? Mark
Nice to see this much opinions on amplification...I have owned from Rotel to Primare, Pathos, Krell and Sugden Class A. Never I was entirely satisfied untill I heard MC 352. Still wondering if another preamp ( I have now a C40) could better it... Rgrds
It depends on speakers, pre-amps, and cabling. The Mac 602 bettered the ARC Ref 300 MK2's on the mid-tweet panels on my Genesis 2's, but when I bought Wilson MAX2,s the Mac didn't work well at all. Now it's back to ARC tubes and all is nirvana again.
I recently dumped a mint SX-828 receiver for a Mac 1900, world of improvement, dumped a Nakamichi ST-7 tuner for a Mac MR-74...this 74 is so far and away better sounding it blew my mind.
I always thought the slight edge in the sound was due to my horn speakers. But now, with a McIntosh preamp, the edge is gone! - After about 30 years, and preamps ranging from Heath to EICO to JBL to Yamaha to AGI to Quad to ARC.
Its funny you say that i have the exact same equipment and bought it in 1977 also. I used B&W DM6's with it but i now use B&W Matric 802 the damn system still hums
I have a Mac C28 pre amp with a 200watt x2 8ohm Mac stereo amp bought in 1977. The sound is still smooth with a fantastic sound stage. I still use my set of B&W DM6's with them have never a a minute of trouble from both pre amp and amp and the B&W's.I have been around since the advent of HI FI sound and the Mc still leads the pack
I have owned Mac for over thirty years initially a MC2505 amp and C26 preamp and now run a MC7270 and C29 in addition to a MA6850 intergrated amp. From the viewpoint of performance,reliability and return on your audio investment, there is nothing better. McIntosh has set the standard that only others manufacturers can hope to image. I will agree there are many great high end products on the market to choose from but from my experience there is only one McIntosh.
We bought an MC7200 four months ago, and haven't done a thing to our system since. Does it sound as lifelike as our SET amp? No. But it fills the house with music, and makes me want to listen to music like my BMW 528i made me want to drive.
I'd have echo Rocketman and say yes, Mc gear is that great. I was one of those sophisticated "audiophiles" who never bother to listen to it always viewed Mc gear as the proverbial "my Dad's Oldsmobile".
I've been a hobbyist for over 35 years and have had some excellent electronics, based on "audiophile" standards: Krell, Naim, AudioNote, Wyetech, Art Audio, Korneff, Emotive Audio, Audiomat, Aronov. But after listening to a MC252 and MCD 205 CD player a couple years ago, I bought them. I later picked up a C42 and have been extremely happy since. Mind you I've been pleased with my system for 2 years. That's NOT ever happened. I wisdh I had listened to Mc gear 10 years ago (and about $50K ago too)
This has been said before, but Mac is the Harley Davidson of audio. Not the fastest, most reliable, smoothest or best out there, but you ARE buying a piece of American culture. Those who defend McIntosh do it with the loyalty of a cult following, and many Mac lover's out there simply do not have the objectivity needed to make a neutral evalutation. It's ok, as many audiophiles are ''fans'' of certain manufacturers, and pride of ownership make up I feel a large part of audiophilia as a hobby. I am absolutely convinced that most Audiogoners here are not in it strickly for the music, but for the love of equipment itself in a larger margin that most of us will admit.
Back to Mac. My personnal experience, and by no means enough to base an definite evaluation. I admit to having purchased a 6450 Mac integrated back a few years ago. I bought it to fulfill my high-school years dream of ''owning'' a ''McIntosh''. The legendary status of Mac made me buy this integrated. The musical performance it generated made me sell it soon afterwards, as it was a big let-down for me, compared to the previous gear I had owned up to then, and especially when compared to my hyped-up expectations of this cult brand.
Still, I would buy a McIntosh product again, probably one of the newer designs, and maybe even vintage, and this after owning a lot of gear, most of it better than the Mac integrated I had once owned.
Looking back now, and closing the audio circus buy-sell-buy loop, I would buy one again as I feel that just buying it for the looks of it, the history behind it, and the way it transforms any ordinary living room into something special, is worth it. Even if it is at the expense of not getting what most audiophiles would consider top-shelf performance all the time. It would surely be good enough for me and all things considered, a wise choice.
Hello. I am presently using a proceed avp2 processor with jm lab mini utopias. Transparent ref speaker cables, Cardas cables virtual dynamics power cords. Hydra power center. Mark levinson dac. As far as power amps, I was using the mc 352. I just sold it as well as my 2 0ther mc 2200's that were powering my center and my rears.(One of the mc2200 was bridged mono for the center mini utopia. I was very pleased with the MC 352 for the mains. I have upgraded my budget since and am Looking to spend around 10k for monoblocks for the main speakers. I have seen 2 possible buys here on audiogon. Can anyone help me in making my desicion. (here it goes.!!) I saw Mark levinson no33's for 10k VS the MC 1201's Whomever can raise a good arguement in which of these paired babies I should purchase may email me epagak@hotmaiil.com
I have been into Audio since 1975.I got intereste in SouthEast Asia.I have ownedSansui,Pioneer,Technics,Pioneer seperats-spec1 spec2.Bose,High end Sony,Panasonic,SAE,Polk sda-drs Speakers,Krell Amp and Pre,Klipsch K-horns,BAT also. I bought my first Mcintosh Amp,a mint MC2500 built in 1985 backin March of 05.I paid $2800.00 for the amp. Retail new was $3200.00 when it was last madein 1990.The amp is fantastic and I bet I can get at least $2500.00 if I was to sell it,if not more.None of the other brands I named can or do hold their value like that.I bought a new MC275 IV in Dec 05 and it is the best match for the K-horns I have found.The k-horns I got used from ebay a couple of months ago for $1960.00.I am now using a BAT-Vk3 pre,a BAT-PK5 phono pre with a new VPI Scout and a Mac MR-74 tuner that has been gone through by Terry Dewick and Tom Mannley.The tunner is from the 1970's and I bet down the road I can get what I paid for it $650.00 which is more than it cost new.All the Mac stuff I own is great and most liklyI will never sell any of it.I can also get just about any parts I need for any of Macs stuff no matter how old.Their customer service is second to none.What other company would build you a shipping container for a 21 year old amp to send to someone else to work on? Macintosh will and talk to you as long as you want about any thing Macintosh even if you don't have the piece you are asking about.Want a price quote on a new piece of Mac gear?You will either get an email or a personal call,which ever one you pick, the next day.Name another company that will do that stuff.The closest that I have found is Victor and his partner at BAT,one of them even answers the phone even though they are very busy they will answer all of your questions even if the model is no longer made.I am looking at new Mac cd players and will always use their stuff for as long as I am into audio. Alot of the people,no not all of them,that bash Mac have never owned or even listened to it.I don't see how it cost any more than any other high end stuff.Yes there are better and higher costing stuff but none that holds it's value or is built as well.Any body who says they don't like the sound I would like to hear what it is that they did not like.But everyone is intitled to their own oppinion,I just wish it was based on actualy based on owning one or at least done several demos.
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