Have anyone change out the fuse in the back of a McIntosh integrate amp to make it sound better? Does this work or is this a myth? And if it does what kind of fuse? Thx
I did read your first comment and, sorry to hear that you couldn't hear an immediate difference. I did. Granted, with some changes I've had to wait for certain moments in music to verify what I believed all along, but it was always apparent on first listen that something was amiss, either for the worse, or the better.
The only time I couldn't, was when swapping out fuses on my Kinki EX-M1 integrated. Everything was more of a sideways move and in the end, I stuck with the stock fuse (which was anything but stock: it was a well made, high rupturing fuse that cost about $2.00, but much better made than the usual dreck out there).
Now explain why every time my audiophile buddies over the years have claimed some amazing improvements from fuses, when I forced them to listen blind, those amazing improvements disappear. I do make sure to clean the fuse contact first to remove that variable.
Yes, confirmation bias is a thing and it’s proven every time someone
says fuses can’t, and won’t, make a difference. They believe it so
deeply that when they listen, they don’t hear any differences or write
off any as of no consequence.
You didn't read my first comment above that I was referring to. I assert nothing and when I preview system changes I do not look for an immediate answer, I live with it and decide for myself over time. I'll admit I do not waste much of my time swapping fuses, aligning crystals, or coloring the edges of my CD's (I'm more a vinyl guy anyway) with a green marking pen that uses special ink blessed by a Buddhist Monk. My problems are more pedestrian-- like room reflection, the occasional cable hum, etc. Just because you hear something, or see something with your own eyes does not mean for a New York minute that it's real. You should know that. Most people that (IMO waste) their money (which is totally cool with me) buying a $300 fuse or a $5k power cable EXPECT to hear something-- and so they do. I expect neither because I know that initial reactions to any subtle phenomenon are better approached with an open mind.
Yes, confirmation bias is a thing and it’s proven every time someone says fuses can’t, and won’t, make a difference. They believe it so deeply that when they listen, they don’t hear any differences or write off any as of no consequence.
Oh, as for the Qanon reference, it applies to those who choose to live in an alternative world and not in the real world where one can hear the differences for themselves. Followers of Qanon refuse to think for themselves and choose, instead, to be led.
Confirmation bias is a thing, but many people "just can't handle the truth". I stand by my above comment-- that the extra "something" that you're hearing is coming from YOU. Any Qanon fans here?
That's the question I often ask when this nonsense pops up...if magic fuses provided even a fraction of the benefits claimed by bloviating posters offering hyperbole laden claims these things would garner universal acceptance and be used by every serious manufacturer and far more audiophiles. There's the rub...
I do not hear differences in fuses. With that being said, if fuses make such a BIG difference, why don’t the really high end manufacturers use them as standard in their equipment? So, you spent $150.00 or more on a fuse, of course you think it sounds better. After all, you do need justification for the money you just laid out. For myself, I will take that $150.00 and buy more music, at least I know I got something for the money. If PT Barnum was alive now, he would be loving the boutique fuse purchasers.
It's essentially a myth. But a placebo is not a drug and yet typically has between 20-30% efficacy in many double blind tests. Put simply, when you make a change in your system and then listen for changes there may or may not be actual change, but your perceptions may tell you otherwise-- or nothing.
When I make a system change, like a new cable, I pay little attention to my own initial reaction to whatever I think I'm hearing and commit to live with it for a while. If I perceive a persistent and consistent improvement over time I assume there has been an actual change-- something added, or subtracted, something different but better.
I do not believe for a second that swapping out a fuse and then hearing an immediate and not at all subtle improvement in your system comes from the fuse-- it comes from you. The exception might be that when the swapping was done a dirty connection was cleaned by the action of making the change.
So has anything really changed? If you believe you can hear it, then something has changed-- but most likely that 'something' is you.
No sorry you seem to not understand, that a piece of ac fuse wire 1/2 long has no bearing on the sound, as it’s in series with the ac line house wiring along with power points and fuses or circuit breakers in the fuse box as well.
As stated the only time a ac fuse is in question is when it’s seen too many audio equipment turn-on cycles and ends up sagging, carbonizing/crystalizing or electrolysis and looking like this, and the same will go for your expensive boutique fuses. This "can" lead to a "diode effect" between dirty/corroded fuse holder contacts or in the end cap of the fuse itself because of dissimilar metals.
So to the gullible just do this and save money for better equipment instead.
Just change the fuse if old for a quality brand EE industry standard 50c fuse, as fuses (even the snake oil ones) do age after many turn on cycle surges.
For marketing purposes, it's a great idea to produce a product that claims efficacy and back it up with hyperbole with a qualifier like "if you can't hear a difference you or your system is/are inadequate somehow." The fact that ridiculously expensive "magic" fuses are generally ignored by the vast majority of audiophiles and component manufacturers should tell you something. And it's worth noting that no component I know of claims that its internal wiring (including the wiring immediately after the fuse) is utilized with any thought of wire directionality (a box of wire directionality chaos! Oh no!), except perhaps internal speaker wiring, although that's generally not mentioned either.
George unfortunately you're understanding of electricity doesn't appear to be deep enough to have this conversation. you are trying to use AC as a justification for the fuse not being directional but that is a false argument because the fuse isn't directional is actually why AC doesn't matter.
I do find the claims that people who did not believe in fuses must not have tried it because many of us have I have many times with many people that's why I'm pretty confident about my position. What I'm also pretty confident about is that all the people who claim that people who don't believe infuses have never tried it have never themselves actually done a proper blind test a fuses after cleaning the contacts. So to them I say unless you've actually done a blind test and have cleaned the contacts you actually haven't done the test.
This is partially correct, ac does change direction
So does the current. As I said the only way a fuse can make a sound change is if it were a diode, a bad contact "can " cause a "diode effect".
So to the gullible just do this and save money for better equipment instead.
Just change the fuse if old for a quality brand EE industry standard 50c fuse, as fuses (even the snake oil ones) do age after many turn on cycle surges.
"This is partially correct, ac does change direction, but the EM wave does not." The fact that voltage/signal flows outside the conductor, as a wave, and always toward the load, doesn't fit their 1800's science based theories of AC electricity. They're still trying to shove electrons through conductors (waveguides). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_electricity Note what's stated under 'Electric Drift', regarding AC and electrons. Save your keystrokes, as any modern science/theory will be categorically dismissed, by the Naysayer Doctrine adherents.
I recently installed a 8A HiFi Tuning Supreme Series Fuse in my Revox A740 amp. https://photos.app.goo.gl/XK2ddmTU8pHsBriB7 I was stunned by the improvement! Look if you've spent all kinds of money on highend components plus high quality speaker, interconnect and AC power cables, what's the weakest link in your system? The skinny piece of burn wire in the 50 cent fuse!!!!!
Some i****s or (shills) will have you believe they can hear directional differences in an AC mains fuse, even though ac 60hz mains changes it direction 180 degrees 60 times a second, I let you digest that one.
Cheers George
This is partially correct, ac does change direction, but the EM wave does not.
Thought exercise for you. You replace the fuse with a diode.
You rectify the mains, what are you trying to say that a fuse will act like a diode??? I have said this to the fusers many times that the only way a fuse can be directional is if it were a diode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! END OF STORY PERIOD!!!!!!
George, you know I don't believe in fuses, but you also know, I have told you several times, that this argument, does not make fun of fuse believers, it makes fun of you, and your lack of understanding of how electricity works. "AC" is not the reason why fuse direction does not matter. Fuses are not directional (practically), hence why it does not matter in an AC circuit. Thought exercise for you. You replace the fuse with a diode. Does the circuit operation change? Yes. Does it change because it is AC or because the diode is directional?
georgehifi8,097 posts12-18-2020 9:23pm Some
i****s or (shills) will have you believe they can hear directional
differences in an AC mains fuse, even though ac 60hz mains changes it
direction 180 degrees 60 times a second, I let you digest that one.
Is fuse directionality audibly discernible as well ?
It most certainly is.
I knew that swapping out bog standard fuses for better made ones made a difference but it wasn't until a year and a half after changing fuses and out of boredom, that I tried changing directions only to discover that it does make a difference.
In my short fuse journey It tried it with various, mid level priced fuses and the results were all the same: it made a difference.
Some i****s or (shills) will have you believe they can hear directional differences in an AC mains fuse, even though ac 60hz mains changes it direction 180 degrees 60 times a second, I let you digest that one.
Or it means you are susceptible to self suggestion. Have someone else make the change .... Oh and yes I have with many audiophile buddies. They can only tell a difference when they know the change.
Can you hear a change in sound? You can? That's great it means your
system is sufficiently resolving and would respond to a better fuse.
Pull out your old fuses and put them back in. Try it again. Each time a bit of corrosion is removed. Even better, let someone else change your fuses around several times. buy a bunch of different ones. Number them and keep a score card, but do not look at which ones you are using. Special Fuse Buffs: I dare you!
It’s rather juvenile to "dare" people.
Given that you’ve made the "dare" I can’t help but ask: Have you tried this yourself? If so, what were the results?
Pull out your old fuses and put them back in. Try it again. Each time a bit of corrosion is removed. Even better, let someone else change your fuses around several times. buy a bunch of different ones. Number them and keep a score card, but do not look at which ones you are using. Special Fuse Buffs: I dare you!
You got it wolf, this snake oil fuse **** is just companies pulling big profits from the gullible audiophiles that believe in the simple things they they can change themselves.
You’ll never see one of those "boutique fuse manufacturers" on these pages backing up same BS that the snake oilers here say that a $150+ fuse can do for the sound, cause they know they’ll be liable if they did.
I did a thorough test of SR fuses a few years ago and they made zero difference except when they blew...zero...which makes sense as they're FUSES. Otherwise hey, they're great...*yawn*...
hotroady1, Most certainly, since to be unknowledgeable is to not experience, first hand, something and then claim otherwise from an imagined higher ground, deluding oneself.
Hello, The fuse can make a difference. Power cords made a difference on my Denon receiver. When I upgraded to a two channel system power cords made a big difference. It’s like saying you don’t need premium fuel in your sports car. Electricity is the fuel our systems use to make music. If the fuel is tainted or the fuel line is partially blocked by something you loose performance. There is a point of diminishing returns. I know someone who upgrades the $1 fuses to $10 fuses. It makes a big difference. If the power goes through it it can make a difference otherwise we should all go to Ace Hardware and buy some 10 gauge extension cords and use it for our speaker wire. Instead we go spend several times that on thinner gauge wire to get the sound we all love. ******Make sure the fuse is rated exactly the same as the one you want to replace. $10 bucks is nothing. That’s one month of Tidal.
Sorry you "nattering nabobs of negativism," but fuses do make a difference. Most of that other stuff people are pushing are just snake oil in my opinion. I put SR Blues in my ARC CD player and Krell integrated and the difference was significant and undeniable. Even Paul at PS Audio admits they improve sound but also admits he can't explain why. He has a video online if you're interested. If you are so set in your mind that a fuse cannot affect sound, and I'll agree that it doesn't make sense that it would, but your stubborness is keeping you from hearing your system closer to what it is capable of.
I prefer a "Methode Champenoise" approach to gravitational influences on fuse performance which simply requires giving every fuse (every one...open that lid...get in there) in your system a quarter turn at least once a day. If you don't at least try this you simply cannot comment on its efficacy so please, no comments.
That is a new, used and blown fuse. A slow blow like that will sound OK then worse and finally fail, over time.
It was kind of George to show the failure over a period of time, and a visual inspection will confirm when it’s time for a fuse change. The one in the middle. Not the blown one on the right side, if not close.
The SO would be affected by the middle fuse, the question is how long would a philer/customer listen to the sound getting worse and worse, before the fuse finally failed?
This is a good reason to try a different construction NOT using a fuse that fails that way.
SR fuses with the Goo, aren’t made that way, YET they will blow, keep your gear safe, and sounding better/different to many.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That may be partially true, but I suspect many of the naysayer measurementalists don’t even own systems. They’re just here to argue and disrupt and by that measure they are doing a great job.
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Great example actually, of how a stock fuse fails over time. Information is information, this reference has been posted MANY times.
'That may be partially true, but I suspect many of the naysayer
measurementalists don’t even own systems. They’re just here to argue and
disrupt and by that measure they are doing a great job.'
What's in an unverified forum claim when you can boast and list stock pictures of the "system" you claim to own and pretend? I have often wondered how many of these 200G + systems claimed to be owned around here really exist and how many are bragging rights fiction from those who want you to be impressed with their fibs. There are some basics in audio and the veracity of some claims are easily measured and repeatable and will withstand double blind tests. Then there are the space ship people with heretofore unheard of technologies and discernment who somehow manage to evade the double blind test thingamajigger.
If the OP is "for real", (low post count and has not bothered to post again} Suggest he do this instead of wasting $150+ for a 50cent fuse
Just change the fuse if old for a quality brand EE industry standard 50c fuse, as fuses (even the snake oil ones) do age after many turn on cycle surges.
Sad to see that a self appointed liar who says Admin is watching those who use and advocates aftermarket fuses brags, again, about getting threads moved around as if that is what he thinks is winning, something.
This site is devoted to audiophiles and the sales of audio equipment and associated gear, with fuses, being a large part of that. Those fuses are made by the same makers of cables, power conditioners, etc. and again, account for a large share of sales here, which Admin is totally behind.
I wonder if Admin is aware of what he's doing, discrediting one of the geese that lays a lot of golden eggs here, which is part of their revenue stream. Or, have they already figured him out and after doing the math, found out he is really of no consequence and just let him blather on?
Good to see this fuse thread got moved down the ladder were it belongs
Just change the fuse if old for a quality brand EE industry standard 50c fuse, as fuses (even the snake oil ones) do age after many turn on cycle surges.
the intrepid listen on and enjoy the rewards of their own experimentation. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And then there are those that DO, I’m in your camp. I tried it, on my equipment with someone else’s fuses they gave to me.
3 different types, all with different results, ALL the same brand. SR
If you haven’t tried it, you got no say in the game. If you don’t own the equipment you got no say in the game.
Show me the science, has nothing to do with what someone ELSE hears.. It’s a broken record. The same FEW keep sneaking in their, digs about "Show me the science", when the OP wants to know if it might change his system and SOUND better... NOT where is the science. HOW does it sound.. Keep answering questions that aren't being asked..
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I go back to Mr rodman99999 the intrepid listen on and enjoy the rewards of their own experimentation.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Don’t get talked out of a GOOD thing by someone who hasn’t tried it, probably can’t hear the difference, or has the equipment or environment conducive to giving the product a fair comparison.
Yea they sound different, I own and have access to a LOT of Mac gear, the fuse change is for the better, never worse 4 out 5 of the times.. Maybe, 45-50 pieces..(Between 5 guys)
I’m going to be going through a pair of MC60, and doing a case change, we’ll see if a new PC, fuse holder, and fuse, make a difference.. I bet they do... 60 + years old...STUFF, literally used lamp cord. :-) Sounded quite good..
Hey OP, @ucdmac122005, As yourself, does this sound like the opinion of someone you can trust to be unbiased, take some care in their listening tests? Pretty much a given whoever wrote this does not have a firm grasp of the physics of electricity, how electronics work, etc. They have to make a call to some hereto unknown facet of theoretical physics, of which they have no evidence or proof. Take that for what it is.
As the 'Flat Earth Church of Pushing Electrons Through Metals' continues
it's fevered program, to deliver the music lover from the demonic
influences of their own mental faculties and senses
(HOLLOW-HEADED-LUJAH, AMEN): the intrepid listen on and enjoy the
rewards of their own experimentation.
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