Lumin U2 or Aurender N200

Even stranger, I have noticed albums where some of the tracks are available, and others are not. It is due to rights/permissions of course, as some writing credits/royalties can be different than others on the same album, but hopefully eventually they will all be accessible once the lawyers have dotted and signed. 

@mclinnguy yup

So with Roon or the Qobuz app I don’t see any of these anomalies. Something is odd with the way the Conductor pulls this in. Weird. I’ll check it in v3.

@audphile1 I am referring to Qobuz/Roon. 

Bring up this album in Roon / Qobuz: Merry Axemas

Half the tracks are unavailable

Yep. Probably copyright related. 

“So with Roon or the Qobuz app I don’t see any of these anomalies.”
@audphile1

I wanted to know what you were saying, so I went into Qobuz app on my iPhone and “Fortnight In Paris” is only available for purchase only. Whereas in Conductor the album comes up as “not ready to stream yet”.

Are you able to stream this album in ROON, if yes then it must be available to stream on Tidal as ROON will display albums from both streaming services.

Lalit…no…not able to stream that PB album. I do have a 💿 rip of it though on the SSD that I installed in the N200

A couple times I went to play a Quboz album in my library and a dialog box came up saying “15 songs (all) were no longer available would I like to remove them from my library?” I said no, and it went on to play them all. 
 

@lalitk 

I was going a little nuts looking for this piece/album/song, I didn't pick up on the PB audphile1 referred to, but subliminally I am suddenly craving a peanut butter banana sandwich for lunch. Then I looked back a page and it is in fact "Fortnight in France" you both are referring to :) I did locate a Fortnight in Paris track from the modern jazz BGM group though. It's not too bad- short though. 

Huge Patricia Barber fan, at least I thought, and had no idea about this album! 

Searching this title in Roon shows absolutely nothing, and in Canada on Qobuz just like for you guys it shows purchase only, so for what ever reason it was decided streaming is not an option for this work which dates back to 2004. I am sure there are people (maybe Patricia) who have been calculating the monetary figures between this album and her other live album Companion which is streamable and determining the best course of action revenue wise going forward? and it is worth mentioning another forward thinking strategy- Clique- which was recorded with Merging technologies equipment in DXD, and is available exclusively via NativeDSD in various formats via streaming, but not for sale on Quobuz. I don't know how it all works contract-wise, but maybe after 10 years or something the licence will expire, or be renewed, and Fortnight will be available for streaming? Maybe the next Patricia Barber album won't be streamable again? 

Bought Fortnight from Qobuz in the meantime- so thanks for the information. 

@mclinnguy lmao

on a serious note, A Fortnight in France is one of my favorite Peanut Butter albums.
It doesn’t come up on roon search or qobuz or tidal.
Her cover of “Norwegian Wood” on Fortnight is amazing.

Modern Cool is another missing one. I have it all on CD and ripped to SSD. Good stuff

@audphile1 LOL- I own a modern cool cd, in a mobile fidelity version. And when I looked at it in my rack, right beside it is a copy of Fortnight! Good god. I just spent about an hour first loading into a cart on Qobuz, but it needs me to load up "coins" in 25 or 50 dollar amounts to buy and download it. If I could just buy it to download I would have! Then looking online phoning around to see who has a CD copy of it used- not easy in a small city. It has been so long since I ripped a cd- and now my Roon core 2012 macbook where my minimal files are kept the drive is not working... I have another macbook with a CD rom drive I can rip it, then transfer onto flash drive, then onto Roon core machine. Geez, wish I could stream it. 

At least that PB sandwich was good. 

“And when I looked at it in my rack, right beside it is a copy of Fortnight!”
@mclinnguy 

LOL!  You may not be inclined to do so but cataloging your collection would have avoided this. I use CLZ Music app to catelog my media. It has saved me $$$ when I am shopping online or at trade show. After a while you can’t possibly remember all the titles in your collection. I am now 95% streaming but still buy downloads, CD’s and Vinyl. Now I need to go and shop for PB’s live album - A Fortnight In Paris. 

@mclinnguy 😂

@lalitk that would be a good idea. Got a trial with dbpoweramp, ripped Modern Cool and Fortnight, Listening to Fortnight now- It does sound very nice, well recorded and produced, great soundstage, like most (all?) Barber's works. I wouldn't know it wasn't a 24/96 file. I know it well, so I must have listened to it several times at least, but I don't recall ever listening to it. It must have been before 2016 that is when I sold the Linn CD player. If I was a reviewer I would say "this is the best this recording has ever sounded in my system" 😃

@audphile1 

Her cover of “Norwegian Wood” on Fortnight is amazing.

👍

Fantastic jam session- And it is recorded properly with her piano going from high register on the left and low register on the right, so you are looking at her. 

I always found it odd that with Diana Krall's albums, such as live in Paris, it is backwards: her vocals are dead centre and she is singing towards you, yet you are sitting behind her when she plays- piano goes from lows on the left to highs on the right- like she plays an inverted keyboard. (not)

Glad you enjoyed it! I’ll have to check that Krall album…haven’t heard it in a while 

Somewhere in this thread Weiss 501, Grimm MU, and Linn are mentioned. Has anyone actually auditioned these in their home and then ended up with Aurender N200? 

@julie_priest 

Weiss 501 is a dac with a built in network renderer. I wasn’t looking for a DAC upgrade. Also, I wasn’t interested in the twice as expensive as the N200 Grimm MU1. So, no, I didn’t audition these units. 

@audphile1 curious how in general you’d compare Lumin to Aurender.  I’ve had various Lumin products, D2, P1 and I’m now using a U2 mini with an S-Booster.  I’ve had an Auralic G2 streamer only as well.  I’ve never had the pleasure of experiencing or hearing a Aurender streamer.  My experience with Lunin has been great, build quality, customer service, app have been great, they seemed to be a level above Auralic, sound quality wise, Lumin seemed to be a bit quieter but if one was choosing between Auralic be Lumin, didn’t seem like it was a one was better than the other, more a personal preference.  I have a system in 40 k range, wondering if the U2 Mini is a bottle neck.  Also wondering on a general front, when you compare Aurender to Lumin, would you put Aurender a level above Lumin, not product specific but their streaming products in general.  

@mm1tt77 I used Auralic Aries G1, Lumin U1 Mini and the built in network renderer in my dac. The Aurender N200, sonically, is in another league. I will make a safe assumption that even with Sbooster the lumin mini won’t reach close to the N200. I also think the U2 is a worthy upgraded over the Mini Sbooster or not.
Aurender design and implementation is top notch. I don’t think anyone can argue this point. But the Lumin U2 is also a great streamer. I would say buy with return policy if possible. Hear it and “feel” it in your system

I will add that the Lumin native app just sucks. Of you use Roon, you’re good. The Aurender as you probably know is not roon ready but the Conductor app is very good overall and presents not much of learning curve. I was up and running in minutes. 

I have two Aurrender and have had the Grimm in my system, and listened to Linn in several systems. So… that kind of gives me a feel for things. I have not heard the Lumin… I had eliminated it via extensive research.  I also owned a Aurlic Aries G2 for about a year… not in the same league.

I think I would put it this way, all are good at their respective prices… organized by best sounding first: Aurender N20, Grimm, Aurrender N200, Linn. Aurrender has the lower noise floor and a a more natural treble. It is important to have a DAC that is up to the task, so you can benefit fully from the sound quality of the streamer.

I was looking at the same choice a few months ago. I have a Holo Audio Spring3 KTE DAC and I've been using a Sony UBP-X800E 4K Bluray player to play SACD's and as a CD transport. I also have an Intel NUC as a Roon Core. I listen to a mix of LP's, CD's and stream from my NAS drive. I felt that CD's sounded better than streaming from the Roon core to the DAC so I wanted to get a streamer to improve the sound. From dealers I spoke to I was given the impression that the Aurender N200 was the better streamer with a more natural sound. I was told it would support Roon in the future. I liked the fact that the Lumin U2 supports fiber and Lumin says it has a USB interface that connects directly to the system. I was able to get the Lumin U2 for about $2K less than the list for the Aurender and the Aurender would have cost close to twice what my DAC cost, which I have been very happy with. I couldn't hear either, so I ended up going with the Lumin U2 for the lower price and the known Roon support. It definitely has been a significant upgrade in sound for streaming and I can use the Lumin app, which seems decent and also use Roon, which I own a lifetime license for. I think the Lumin app and Roon sound different, but I couldn't say one is definitively better. I especially like the Roon feature of viewing info about artists and albums, so I'm glad I haven't lost that. I would say that CD's sound different than streaming, and although I wouldn't say the streamer sounds definitively better than CD's, I would say they're on a more comparable level now. I'm still curious how the Aurender N200 would sound, and don't know if I made the best choice, but I am happy with the Lumin U2 and plan to try the fiber networking soon.

You M U S T hear the Lumin U2 with Fiber optic. It is superb!

AQ Diamond USB is here! I’ll let it cook for a week or so before I know what it’s really capable of, but it’s an immediate improvement in soundstage and tone over the stock cable. 

@audphile1 

👍

AQ Diamond USB is here! I’ll let it cook for a week or so before I know what it’s really capable of, but it’s an immediate improvement in soundstage and tone over the stock cable. 

Stock cable, as in the throw-away that came with the unit?? 

@mclinnguy I would not go as far as to call it a throw away. Aurender actually includes a somewhat decent USB cable that doesn’t do much harm. It doesn’t offend. Is it the last word in refinement, noise floor and extension? No.
But I’d say it’s sufficient to hold over until a better cable can be obtained.

Which kind of does make it a throw away now that I just said all that. Lol

I’ve also been running a stock power cord on the N200. Being as OCD as I am about all this, I got an AQ Tornado for the N200 to match the Diamond.

So before the Tornado, initial impressions after about 20hrs of break in on the Dianond….lower noise floor, fuller more luscious mids, bass was lean and loose in the first few hours but rebounded nicely and is weighty and fast, highs are sweet and more natural than the stock cable. I do think it’s got ways to go though so I will give it the full 200hrs to come up with final thoughts. So far the upgrade is worth it.

@audphile1 

I used a cheapo Wireworld starlight for years, as even the engineer of my previous DAC stated it would make no difference. Finally decided to try it and got a Lightspeed and a Lush^3 to check it out. Absolutely they changed the sound, but you are talking OCD? I would switch them back and forth depending on the track: Lightspeed was more detailed and extended, the Lush was definitely named appropriately, but sometimes the bass became overbearing- and the lush was customizable with its grounding wires! I couldn't handle tweaking cables every few minutes, it reminds me when I was a kid with a car stereo that was worth more than the car it was in, and I fiddled with the 10 band Sony equalizer constantly- by the time I got it right the song was over!

I have since acquired a USB-less DAC, sold the USB cables and very relieved not to have USB options at the moment 😁

Curious though, if you upgraded to the N20 would you still use the USB into the Bricasti M3? Or would AES then be the best option? I checked Aurender's user manual and it states connection would be DAC dependent. 

@mclinnguy N20 has OCXO clock. Yes the connection is DAC dependent but also content dependent. I would experiment with equal level AES and USB.
Assume that the OCXO clock in the N20 is the superior of the 2 units, I’d use AES for regular Qobuz hi-res streaming. But if you have DSD rips, it would be worth comparing once again the DoP via AES to DSD Native via USB.

Thanks for your recommendation @la45. I don’t want to hijack this post, but I have been wondering if it’s worth the investment to add the fiber setup for the Lumin U2. Are you using the Lumin U2 with fiber now? If you are I’d be curious to know what you’re using on the fiber network side. I was thinking I could try something inexpensive like the TP Link TL-SG3210. I didn’t know if it pays to use something better with a LPS. I also heard it’s worthwhile to use Finisar SFP’s. Wondering if you have any experience in this area?

so to help answer your question I used to own the lumin x1 and I now own the lumin u2 (love lumin as a streamer but wanted to try different dacs)

I setup a fiber connection with the x1 for very cheap. I think with all the parts it was just over $100

Now, today I will (depending on the weather since its been snowing a lot) take possession of an etherregen switch with afterdark linear power supply and external dedicated clock. I will also be trying out the u2 configured with fiber optic. apparently, even the Transceiver Module makes a difference and has sonic characteristics so I have upgraded versions of these as well

Hopefully over the weekend after a long listening session i will be able to give you feedback but even with the dirt cheap switch and parts on the x1, it sounded great and noticeably better than its non optical counterpart.

so rest assured and dont be worried it will sound fantastic and you honestly dont need to spend very much money on a switch, cable, and transceivers

will the upgraded network parts make a difference? stay tuned and i will give my feedback 

Thanks @questforhifi looking forward to hearing your results.

We really recommend you look at a 432evo Aeon

we outperform the much more expensive aurrender n20

check out this post:Discussi Audiogon on For

"Fast forward to December, I had the pleasure of meeting Dave/@audiotroy and doing the Aurender shootout he mentioned above. We put a 432 Evo Aeon Mk 2 (which was not even the latest version—the latest is is the Mk 3) against my Aurender N20 in the same setup. Despite the Aeon’s much lower price point ($7,800 vs $12,000,) and to my surprise, I heard what Dave heard—the Aeon came out ahead. It did not make the N20 sound broken—it held its own—but it did make it sound flat and lifeless in comparison. The soundstage on the Aeon, the spatial cues, and the dimensionality were dramatically better. The only thing I think the N20 did a bit better in was the slightly deeper and tighter bass. Overall, however, going from the N20 to the Aeon felt like an upgrade; going the other way felt like a downgrade. I did not miss the slight loss in low end extension when listening to the Aeon. With the N20, however, I did miss the Aeon’s soundstage and imaging.

we have tested vs aurender, innous lumin and grimm.

so far only one 25k server was found to better

unlike lumin or Aurender our servers can be upgraded to a higher also we are both A Roon core and End point.

Dave and Troy

Audio Intellect NJ.

US importers 432 EVO Music Servers.

My initial feedback of fiber connection

the overall sound is mostly that of a lower noise floor/blacker background

my issue however is the sfp+ modules. They all sound drastically different

ive tried a few different ones out. No matter what it sounds higher resolving than plain cat 6 Ethernet. Very clear and detailed

however, some modules sound thin. with the finisar im currently listening to all the bass is gone

there is one particular Cisco module that has a nice detail and separation. Very clear but the soundstage is flat

i opened up a new can of worms here! considering switching back to cat 6

Fiber didn’t work for me although it was only to convert to fiber then back to copper before the streamer (doesn’t have fiber in). I heard glassy, artificial sound with reduced bass. Reverted it all back. 

The few times I tried fiber in place of CAT 6 it didn’t work for me.... to lean, and lacking body/tonal density.....there was more "air", and a sense of increased resolution with fiber, however the trade off mentioned above wasn’t worth it.

Cheers...

My fibre and Cisco switch is only 3 weeks old in my system, and I only have 1 set of modules to try :) I know my system right now with fibre into the LPS powered etherREGEN then ethernet into the DAC sounds pretty darn good, many levels better than ethernet direct into the DAC, but I'll remove just the fibre and do cat 6 into the ER and compare. 

Just went back and forth between fibre and cat 7- (its actually a cat 7 cable) both from the Cisco switch into the etherREGEN powered by Plixir BDC. Used Keb Mo - "I was wrong".

Really difficult to hear any difference- I had to go back and forth a dozen times:

Bass pretty much equal, if anything there is a little more bloom with fibre- I don’t find any difference with body- but treble- in this case cymbals/harmonica is a touch more prominent and forward with fibre. Gives the impression it is a little more detailed, more air, but I could see that interpreted as glare.

Doesn’t come across as hardness or glassi-ness though. I’m pretty confident I don’t think I could tell the difference if someone tested me- and this was just one track- more listening required!

edit: if someone was curious optical/transceivers are from AS 

Cisco GLC-SX-MM Compatible 1000BASE-SX SFP 850nm 550m DOM Duplex LC MMF Transceiver Module #11774	2	11774	C$ 9.50	C$ 19.00
	15m (49ft) LC UPC to LC UPC Duplex OM3 Multimode PVC (OFNR) 2.0mm Fiber Optic Patch Cable

@mclinnguy that’s a great test track and a very good recording.
Out of curiosity, what Cat7 cable are you using? That’s between the etherregen and streamer correct?

Between ER and Weiss is an Audio Sensibility Supra cat 8- they modify it by cryo'ing the cable and adding Telegartners- very reasonable price 

AS Supra ethernet

That ethernet cable remained in place. I only swapped the cat 7 from the Cisco switch to the ER- it is 50' $22 one from Monoprice and goes up inside the back wall across the ceiling and down the wall in front of the gear. 

Yes, before you suggest I am now researching Muon stuff :) Pricey for sure!

Actually I recall you having an Eno before also; it didn't work for you? 

I prefer to avoid more wall warts, and more conversions. I find the possibility of introducing more AC line noise via additional active devices far outweighs any idea that the 30’ feet of Ethernet from my outside wall is going to help.

I do however use this right before my streamer’s switch both for noise and to add 4kV of isolation and surge protection:

@mclinnguy Eno was nice but mellowed everything out a bit too much. I sold it before I got the N200. Kind of wish I still had it so I could try it. oh well…

I’m familiar with Supra with Telegartner. Tried it. Decent. Wasn’t as good as the Eno system or the Purist Audio that I’m using now. 
The Muon is expensive. I can’t think of a good reason to spend that much for a filter although I’m sure it’s nice. I’ll be just using the best possible Ethernet cable. 

It is more than my amplifier- which seems ridiculous 🤪 What happened to that old
"spend 10-15 % of the value of your system on cables" ?

But knowing the improvement I get from the etherREGEN, and everything I read states the Muon is better, and their ethernet is reportedly of the same calibre, and we are all after the best streaming experience possible... 

Heck, I only just realized the sound benefits of upgraded USB cables only 2 months ago-I read it all of course, just didn't do anything about it. I am slower to the game but on a fast learning curve.

Give it a shot!

@mclinnguy 

As @audphile1 suggested, give ENO a shot, preferably with complete ENO streaming system between your Cisco switch and Weiss. That would be a fair comparison between ER and ENO. Before you do, check Ethernet specs on your Weiss. ENO is designed to operate at 100Mb/s and most DAC with Ethernet card spec’d at 1Gb/s. 

Is ENO better than ER, let your ears guide you to promise land. 

👍

To bring out the best from Lumin U2, the fiber optic connection is the way to go. However, regular fiber optic converters will only make the sound worse. You need to use an audiophile switch with a fiber optic output to pair with U2.

I use a LHY SW-10 switch with a direct optic link between U2 and the switch, and the result is excellent. 

@audphile1 

So it’s been a year plus since you got the N200.  Are you still loving it? Have you changed anything else since you bought it?

I’m looking to buy the same streamer, so I thought I’d ask.

@curiousjim no not a year just over 2 months. And yes I still love it!
I couldn’t help it but compare it to CD again a week ago and it is just awesome in every way!
I highly recommend it but since it’s a sizable purchase I would strongly advise you to audition it in your system against your current reference