LSA Voyager GAN Amplifier

My CODA 07x / CODA 8 combo have absolutely zero noise or hiss. I have to put my ear 1 inch away from the speaker to hear anything that even resembles noise! Speaker sensitivity is 90db...

" I can’t find the website for LSA.  Please add the link..."

https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/lsa-electronics

@yyzsantabarbara just want to understand - you like the AHB2 more than the Coda 8?

I can’t find the website for LSA.  Please add the link...

The Voyager has 26db of gain and the Coda amp probably the same. The Benchmark amp has 9db of gain in the low setting.  The lower the gain of the amp the less it will amplify the noise before it.  With 9db of gain you could never use the Benchmark driven from a DAC (unless you had 100db speakers).  26 db is the industry standard.  The Benchmark has a high of 23db gain....still on the low side. 

Besides hiss levels.....how does the Voyager sound?.....compared with the Benchmark and Coda?  I know its only been a day......but curious.

My previous post got me curious so I put in a stereo AHB2 with the Thiel CS3.7 and the CODA 07x preamp. As I said before the 07x has a bit of hiss (I am using the low gain setting on the AHB2). However, it is not noticeable from the seating position and even close up it is faint.

I tried the Voyager and then the AHB2 playing the BEE GEES - Main Course album. At low volume the Voyager kind of sucks. The hiss dominates the sound. With the AHB2 it is beautiful. However, no one really listens at this low volume. My son went to sleep so I turned everything down. 

Disappointed in the Voyager in this regard, but I have headphones for situations like this. The CODA #8 is also not that great at low volumes due to the hiss. Maybe a bit better than the Voyager (going off memory). 

One observation so far when no music is playing with regards to speaker hiss:

- Benchmark HPA4 + AHB2 = no hiss, nothing

- CODA 07x + AHB2 = a bit of hiss could not hear from my sitting position

- CODA 07x + CODA #8 = a bit of hiss that I can hear from sitting position if I focus on listening for it

- CODA 07x + Voyager 350 (not modded) = same as CODA 07x + CODA #8

I am in a small room about 8 feet from the tweeters. 

If your speakers hit 2 Ohms and they need power to shine (like my Thiel CS3.7) do not use the AHB2 in stereo or mono. I have tried both and while it sounded very good there something missing. Listening to something with some power, such as Led Zep, left me thinking that something was missing. With the CODA #8 (and likely Voyager) there is more grunt with music like Zep.

The AHB2 is still my fav sounding amp because of the best clarity, quietness, detail, and neutrality. I would not take a FREE mega bucks amp over this beauty. I am going to build a living room system around it (well already did, just need better speakers). CODA preamp + AHB2 = amazing.

I got my MacMini installed with ROON. Could not get the ROON Core to work on it so slumming with regular ROON. I really hate MAC’s. I do have better ROON sound now because I am directly on my network instead of the PowerLine (subnet?) network I was using before. That setup almost tricked me into thinking me speaker drivers were damaged on George Harrisons 50th anniversary ATMP.

Cutting hairs.  Your amp is mostly burned in.....it doubt its going to change much from now on.  Sure, blast it as much as possible....certainly no harm....except for your ears and your neighbors.

ricevs,
Thanks.  Now my 170 hours have been probably using 0.1 to only rarely 10 watts.  I can try playing more dynamic orchestral music using up to maybe 500 watt peaks for short periods of time.  Would that provide a better break in?  For weight lifting, it is better to do short, intense workouts with heavy weight than long workouts with baby weights, a waste of time.  Is the same thing true with amp break in?

yyz,
When I tried the single stereo Benchmark AHB2 with my LOW impedance of parallel electrostatics and Enigmacoustics stat tweeters, it shut down at even moderate power.  Using mono AHB2's gives more power into 8 ohms, but not 2 ohms.  I know it is early, but later please report on the relative tonality (clarity, neutrality) of the AHB2 and Voyager at sensible SPL's.  The Voyager has greater power, but quality is what counts.

Sounds like it’s a contender. 

Sounds like a contender. 

I am on my second CD playing through my modded Sony SCD-1 and I am impressed. My Sony is not ideal in this room because I do not use DSP with the Sony. I won't get into details, but my ROON server is down. I am trying to move that to my MacMini. Once I have that sorted out today I will have my best source ready to go.

Saying all of that this amp sounds great on with my Sony. The sound was actually awful the first couple of songs but now we are rolling. I wont get into audiophile terms (still early yet). All I will say is that my head has been bobbing, my toes have been tapping like a madman. This amp seems fast, maybe that is why I am having this great time with the music.  

No fatigue so far.

It also seems good with my 2 Ohm speaker. I felt some things were just not there with the 2 Ohm speaker and the Benchmark AHB2. Not so with the CODA #8 and Voyager.

BTW - I forgot I am getting my KRELL K-300i back from KRELL tomorrow. That integrated sounds great on the Thiel CS3.7 (smooth and great bass). It will be a shootout with 3 amps. 

Unless an amp has Teflon coupling caps or such, I find 200 hours of PLAY time to be plenty of time to know what an amp sounds like. When I sold my EVS 1200 amps I included cheap 100 watt 8 ohm power resistors so someone can burn in the amp continuously. You listen for a couple of hours then take off the speaker wires and install the resistors and turn it back on at the same volume level.....then check to see how hot the resistors are......if they are nice and toasty but you can at least touch them then just leave it playing on repeat or streaming till you listen again.

These are $1,51 each plus shipping for the 8 ohm 100 watters:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/152815608794?hash=item23948523da:g:mA8AAOSwdW9aCk-K
They can only do about 10 watts free air (not mounted to a heatsink) but are plenty big enough. Just solder a nice big wire to each end and you can even put cheap bananas on to make them super easy to install.

I usually put a new amp in the bathroom and burn it in straight using resistors for one week (160 hours) and then start modding. Same with DACs and players (I use a 1K resistor for low level components). However, the mods make way more difference than burn in. The mods will always make the same difference and most mods do not require much burn in. Even 24 hours of play is plenty of time to get an idea of the sound of something. After that, each mod makes a serious difference Many times I have taken a barely burned in piece and started mods and I could always hear the mods improvement.

Having something idle is not play time. You really want play time. You want current running through all the parts. Class A amps run a lot of current through the power supply and output stages but none through the wiring and jacks and coupling caps, etc. Only play time does it all. Class D amps idle really low in current and have an inductor and caps to ground on the output......you want current running through these parts.

Viber 6,
157 hours is plenty of time to know what the basic stock amp sounds like.  It is not going to magically change at exactly 400 hours.  I personally have never heard an IceEdge amp that had 400 hours of play time.  Even my own amp never had that many play hours before I sold it (it did have hundreds of hours at idle as I never shut it off).  I am not saying you need to send me your amp right now......in fact, I am busy for a couple more weeks so you have more time to burn in.  Just sayin'  

yyzsantabarbara,
I suggest you put in 400 hours of amp time before sending it to Ric.  I am doing this with my Rouge Audio Studio N-10DM, a dual mono IceEdge 1200 AS1.  Francesco of Rouge advised 400 hours.  At this moment, I have 157 hours on it.  I let it play with my typical music, Mozart violin concertos with small orchestra.  Loudest sections are about 75 dB, although transients are higher, but probably under 85 dB for milliseconds.  I live in an apartment building and let it play for 16 waking hours a day, so I don't disturb neighbors by keeping the volumes modest.  Ideal break in procedures are speculative.  I wonder what the relevance of harsh break in at 90-100 dB would be.  Perhaps the most relevant procedure would be to use your typical music at the playback levels you would listen to.

The sound is quite variable at this point.  It has little to do with whether the amp is warm or cold.  My power quality is very variable, which I found with other amps.  At this point, I don't know whether my variability is due to the power quality or the break in of the Rouge amp.  At 400 hours, I will do the final assessment, go back to my reference amps after they are briefly re-broken in after 1 month of no use.  Then I will do Ric's mods.

Years ago, I almost bought the Benchmark AHB2.  It had excellent clarity and neutrality, although after break in it was very slightly warmer than my Bryston 2.5B SST2.  So I want to hear how your AHB2 compares to the new amp.

@wgs57
No but as a technology guy and  owner of more than one very good older Class D amps for many years now I predict they are both superlative.

I have about 45 hours on the LSA Voyager now.  As time passes it is developing more layering, spatiality and finesse.  Just beautiful sonics.  I am still in awe of what I am hearing out of this modest sized little box.

It’s likely too early but has anyone experienced hearing a comparison of the Voyager and NAD’s M33. 
Anyone have any thoughts?

Many thanks!

This is perfect......this way we will all know what you think of the unit stock......and then later....with the mods.  People are going to trust your direct experience with the mods more than mine.  

I was not able to ship directly to Ric for the mods so I get the amp delivered to my home tomorrow. I will send it to Ric next week.

I will put it on my Thiel CS3.7 and also the RAAL SR1a amp interface box. I should be able to play this 24 x 7 with the amp interface box. I do not want to hook up the headphones to the box overnight but think the amp will still be outputting current without the headphone connected. 

This interface box allows my Thiel CS3.7 and headphones to be connected to the box with a swatch to select output. I normally do not use the box this way but will do so to burn-in the amp quickly.

I have a Benchmark AHB2 (for the RAAL) and CODA #8 (for the Thiel) in the same room, so I will compare against those 2. Only problem for my comparison is that the CODA and AHB2 have SpeakON connectors and my best speaker wire, Audience FrontRow, require SpeakON. I will instead be using my Audience Conductor SE speaker wire for the testing. One of the 2 sets of wires needed has not been used for a while.

Although I haven’t had the pleasure of listening to them, Wally’s LSA 20 Statement
speaker has also received 
very positive reviews. Again, 
$3,000 for the pair.

I’m sure that the LSA amp is good. Underwood Wally is a straight shooter, he knows what music sounds like and works with some of the best designers. He also is clearly focused on high value.
I imagine that the Voyager is super good for the money. But certainly not best regardless of price. AGD Audion approaches this rarified territory and can be compared to the super pricey. I can’t really comment on the Voyager not having heard it.
But it seems the GaN Class D is taking hold as the beautiful evolution of CD.

There were people almost two years ago that ordered the LSA amp......just now being delivered.  Basically, when it ships....it's real.

Supply chain? production details?  that can take an eternity.....or less.....let's hope less.  The sooner he brings it out the sooner I can do mods on it......he he.  

Ricevs - I spoke with Ralph a few weeks ago, there is already folks ordering his new GAN Class D amps. I believe he said they were $5200 and he’s working up the supply chain and production details.

Given Ralph’s track record, I’m sure he’s going to have a great piece.

I have never modded a Rouge.  I base my statements on how the different amps are implemented stock.  The BEST Mivera uses way better jacks (AC, input and output) and better wire then any other IceEdge amp.  The mods to any IceEdge amp MODULE are equal value.  Mono amps make less difference than using all great wire and jacks. The best of the best would use mono modded modules and the worlds best jacks and wires and fuses.

ricevs,,
Thanks.  I bought the Rouge on your recommendation.  Have you actually found your modded Rouge to have even greater improvements than your modded Mivera?  How is the stock Rouge inferior to the Mivera even though the Mivera uses the stereo 1200 AS2?

Ricevs,

Ever tried/tested upgrading class D board caps with better electrolytic caps like Audio Note Kaisei or Mundorf? I use both to good effect. Not sure if the Ice and other class D boards would benefit sonically?

I may try on the Ice boards.

What about key resistors? Any opportunity here? I have not tried on class D boards. 

Better, as in every way.  Name a quality.....its better.  mostly it is more transparent, faster, more extended on top, more dynamic, better imaging, more air, better bass and more real.  Legacy is not done as well as the best Mivera....so more will come from modding that.  The mods have practically no burn in.  I am not replacing coupling caps or electrolytics and the modified Wima's I use sound great right away.......yes, there will be a slight improvement with time.....but not much.  Modding the Rouge would give about the same improvement as modding the Legacy.  I have not modded a Legacy.....doubt I will.  It costs too much for most to want to mod it......too bad....they have no idea how good those modules can sound with proper massaging.

ricevs,
Be sure to tell us how your mod to the Mivera sounds different than the stock Mivera.  If you say "better" please describe objectively in what ways.  Same for Legacy.  My Rouge Studio N-10DM has 135 hours on it, and it is still quite variable from one day to the next.  I plan to follow the advice of Francesco from Rouge and listen at 400 hours before judging it.  Is there any change from your mods after break in?  How much break in is needed to judge your mods?

Tweak 1, your advice is on target.  I will continue the burn in to get to a couple of hundred hours before modding.  Much of my equipment across 4 two channel systems has been modded so I have no fear of entrusting a high caliber modder with improving my equipment.

Gman74, 24 hours is when the LSA Voyager really opened up and started sounded like an all star amp.  Hints of this before 24 hours.  I am sure though it's break in is not complete. 

The Voyager still holds the gold in time elapsed between initial announcement and eventual ship.  This last year there have definitely been some supply-side delays and shortages, which I seem to remember Atmas mentioning.

There is not even a picture of a proto of the Atmasphere amp.  He said this year he would bring it out (he has been talking about it for 2 years).  I am not holding my breath.  Hopefully, it will happen....good be great.  Except for the Wyred for Sound amp (waiting on a reply from W4S) the other amps on the list are all solid for now or about to be released.

Voyager versus less expensive mini GAN will be interesting. 

Last week I got the mini GAN from class D audio. I have been very impressed with this little amp. I also have the Carver Crimson 275 tube and Van Alstine synergy 450  SS amp. Frankly I like it better than AVA amp and as good as the Crimson 275 with much more power and bass impact. I have also ordered the Voyager 350 and waiting for its delivery.

I just received the orchard audio starkrimson GaN amp a couple days ago. How many hours did it take for the LSA sound to develop?

@ricevs  You missed Atmasphere's GaN monoblocks, which I believe are in beta testing, and were provisionally quoted at something like 5K the pair.  These could be the amps to give the Audions a run for their money.

Looks like more players are coming out with their GaN amps. Peachtree can now be added to the mix:
https://darko.audio/2021/08/peachtree-announces-gan400-power-amplifier/
And you get a rather big discount if you buy the matching preamp.

All the best,
Nonoise

The list was for GaN amps.......yes, the Cherry amps are great and the stock IceEdge modules in a box Legacy amps can be made (by me) to sound way better. Then there is the IceEdge modules in a box with tube on the input (PS Audio 1200 amps)......those I can make better, as well. Then there is modded Purifi amps. So, lots of great Class D available (GaN and non GaN). 

Everything being equal.......it makes sense to make a new amp using GaNs as these things are just faster than Mosfets.....so it makes sense that they would also make better sound.  You cannot substitute GaNs in a circuit where there are Mosfets now.  They have completely different packaging and require circuit tweaking.  This is why it has taken so long for GaN amps to be available.  Each manufacturer has to design the thing from the ground up.  No Ice, or Hypex modules in a box here.  I emailed Wally (of LSA) in March of 2020 and he said had they had already gone through 3 "board mods".  Who knows how many revisions they had to do before they were satisfied with the sound.  No wonder it took almost 2 years to release.  For this reason, I trust that this LSA amp MAY be the best of the $3K amps.

Doesnt even mention CHERRY AMPS or the Huge Line of LEGACY Amps.

Everyone will have a different take on the "ever evolving game of high end audio".  There was a cartoon in the old Audio magazine where this guy is sitting on a park bench with an unopened preamp box on his lap and his head is down and he is obviously forlorn.  The captions says...."John just realized that his brand new preamp was already out of date"

Yes, by the time you buy the latest thing the designers are working up the mark II version.......and so it goes.  Enjoy the ride.  Live in the now.

With any new technology of value it is always best to wait in order to get more for less.

I will continue to look for all opportunities to hear new amplifiers of interest that appear to offer a true technological step forward. When I hear one I can afford that sounds better than what I have then I may take a plunge. Or if what I have just goes up finally and I need a replacement (or spare). 

One thing for sure technology always marches forward and products then tend to folllow.

Wow! Did not know about the Peachtree.....the revolution is happening! You have to understand....every GaN amp will sound different and every new amp has different potential (burn in and mods).

I do not own an EVS 1200 amp. I have a Mivera that I am modding right now but it will be gone next week. You already own the Mivera so the mod will not cost you much......but you want the best you can afford.....of course. There are so many new GaN amps coming that it will be impossible to know which one is best until there will be A/Bs of all the amps......and then again with modded amps. I am afraid that will mean never.....he he. You just have to decide sometime and realize that whatever and whenever you choose......that choice is temporary. There will always be a better amp......this has always been so. This is why I tell people not to spend over $5K on an amp......you are going to lose big, otherwise.

Here is the list of contenders.....too bad it took LSA so long to get their amp out.....they could have dominated the market. Now, they are one of many new GaN amps:

1. LSA Voyager 350 $3000
2. Wyred for Sound amp $3000  not yet released
3. Peachtree 400 amp $3000
4. Orchard Audio amp $2500  about to ship

up in price is:
5. Mytek Manhattan $6000   due out this summer
6. Mytek Empire mono blocks $20,000  shipping any day now
7. AGD Audion mono blocks $7500
9. AGD Gran Vivace mono blocks $18K
10. Merrill Audio Element 116 amp $16K

down in price is:
11. Premium-Audio/Class D Audio Mini GaN amp $750
12 Orchard Audio mono block baby amps....$1500.

Don’t blink.....there might already be another new GaN amp about to be released.....he he.

A year from now there will be a dozen more GaN amps....some from the mega buck high end companies. I am sure you will see some hybrids using tubes on the input, as well.

This thread is extremely interesting to me as I am considering the new GaN amp from LSA, Audio-GD 2A monos, PSA M1200 monos and the Coda No. 8. Coming from a McIntosh C8 pre/dac with Wyred4Sound SX-1000R monos, driving Magico A5s. I’m looking for a bit more dimensionality and lushness in the mids and sparkle in the highs. The Wyreds are great...but I’m thinking that’s the weak link for me right now.

I demoed the Magico A3 with Mark Levinson gear and I thought it was great match. I think the CODA #8 would be even better with the Magico A3. I have not heard the A5. The CODA would give you the sound characteristics that you are looking for. If the Voyager is like the CODA #8 then that would be something else at half the price.

I should say that I tried the CODA #8 with a Topping pre90 preamp and it was not a good match. The CODA #8 is gorgeous with the matching CODA 07x preamp. The Topping pre90 ($599) is an excellent preamp and I use it in my living room system with AHB2. I think it was an impedance mismatch with the CODA #8. So system matching with the Voyager would also play a factor.

@ricevs 

Could you do an a/b comparison between the Voyager before and after your mod and your Evs1200 amp? I’m leaning toward sending you my Mivera 1200 but wondering if I should wait for one of these GAN amps.

Wonder how this will compare to the Peachtree gan fet amp? Seems like more of these amps may be on the horizon. 

@jkscherk

I had been thinking I needed to upgrade my Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5. Not having that kind of money, first I replaced an optical cable that I had been using since I first got the DDP-1 between my Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5 and my Oppo 105 with a Pangea 1.5m XL coax ($150!), I was and remain flabbergasted at the transformation to my EVS1200 and the rest of my system

hth

@jaymark


Very happy for you, and for Underwood. They went through quite a few hiccups, but to their credit they held off shipping earlier versions until they were satisfied.

Based on numerous class D amps I have owned, 200 hours is a magical moment in time, so if you are excited now.....


Mine is supposed to ship by tomorrow

My SUGGESTION to anyone thinking to send it to Ric (everyone should know I am a major fan based on my EVS1200 experience) ought to put a couple hundred hours on it first

hth

This thread is extremely interesting to me as I am considering the new GaN amp from LSA, Audio-GD 2A monos, PSA M1200 monos and the Coda No. 8.  Coming from a McIntosh C8 pre/dac with Wyred4Sound SX-1000R monos, driving Magico A5s.  I'm looking for a bit more dimensionality and lushness in the mids and sparkle in the highs.  The Wyreds are great...but I'm thinking that's the weak link for me right now.