Looking for a Speaker Recommnedation

Hoping Pete sends me the translation table. Only know one for sure:

Vandersteen Trio CT -  Best of the bunch

Probably a good list.  I won't go in order, but my impressions of these speakers (yes pretty familiar with all of them).

Hot high end.  Cant' listen to Rock that was not recorded properly as my ears burn.  Lot's of thump in the bass.  Pretty reveiling.

Sweet sounds with very little imagining or sound stage.  No true detail

A nice speaker that can be peaky, but it does more good than bad.  Hard to rock out on as it doesn't move too much air in the room.

Huge sound stage and nice imaging.  Very detailed, but still a bit veiled.  Dynamic, but needs to be played at loud levels to achieve this.  Moves decent air, but not the most tuneful.  Overall a very good speaker

Best of the bunch.  Most detailed, will be truthful to the recording, but the smoothest highs on the bunch by a country mile.  Tight tuneful bass.  Most dynamic with no smearing.  Will move enough air for all types of music.

Basically, the poster gave a set of speakers that all sound very different and behave very differently from each other in a room depending on boundaries...

I recommend you to start audition the short list bellow and continue from there:

PSB Imagine T3
Vandersteen Trio CT
Spendor D7
Proac Studio 148
Revel F208

All are fine speakers and seems like a safe bet. 

Get some heavy cardboard and make a BIG baffle front for the LS 35a..... that will help you get an idea about all the xxx you are missing !
mostly kidding
research good, listening better
thanks also for sharing your journey and process with us
good on ya !

"I think you’re dooing a mistake here Instead making a list of short options and start to eliminate some choices ,you are expanding it more and more"

I agree...but it happens frequently here.  Someone can post a list of 1000 speakers they are considering and invariably someone will find a couple more they should add to the list.  We are all just trying to help but it is easy to overload yourself with data.

I think you’re doing a mistake here Instead  making a list of short options and start to eliminate some choices ,you are expanding it more and more 

Hi itzhak. Part of the process maybe but agree the list became too large. I had already started eliminating many options based on my research/looks/size/pricing (used & new). Thanks

IMO you are reading too much....I sometimes do the same

I do tend to research things to death tomic601. Usually leads to a good decision though - although a sometimes painful journey :-)
Ultimately I have 17 years with the Rogers and while they are good speakers, it's time for a change. Thanks for the feedback & advice

I saw those Quatro's at Audioconnection last week. I would contact Johnny Rutan and see if he is negotiable.
If you do want to come down, let me know, I could pack up my Zu Union speakers and we could demo them with the Vandys.

Thanks for the offer Bob.  Probably won't be able to get down there until Feb sometime. Will check out AC's demo section 

Hi fdemello

I think you’re dooing a mistake here Instead  making a list of short options and start to eliminate some choices ,you are expanding it more and more .there is endless speakers around you have to focus on the best options you think is suitable for your needs and start audition them otherwise you’ll be confused and out of control....

Also coming tomorrow: A sweet little 45 wpc PrimaLuna Prologue Premium. Uses EL34s -same as Marantz 8b! How's that for hearing protection? I wish the PL had a triode switch but no.  Price was too good to pass up...

I had a nice three year run paying for college using LaScalla in utility fir plywood as a PA for a rockabilly band...
the other half was paid for selling KEF, SOTA, Quad, Dynavector, Vandersteen, etc...
they will be great for Zoso....
buy hearing protection 

Love the La Scallas for rock concert sound. Should be killer with Zep. Very good with low power tube amps to take the edge off.

Let us know how this works out after a month or so. 

Dave 

After hearing them on youtube, I purchased some Klipsch La Scalla II (arriving tomorrow). My first "Good" speakers were horns (Allied Radio boxes w/12 inch acoustic suspension woofers & horn tweeter/mids). I like how the klipsch (105 db efficient) open doors for trying low-power, high quality amps (First Watt, Cary, Air Tight, etc).
I'm keeping my Thiel 2.4SE, but may sell if seduced by the Klipsch.
The first album through the La Scalla will be 'Zepplin II. I'm drooling already!

I agree with the dealer above about used vs demo.  Not even a question for me.  I just can't buy a used speaker or transport.  When I see a used TT, I'll look as you can tell if someone takes care of their gear or not.  


Too many horror stories about used speakers and blown drivers that sometimes even the owner didn't realize (yes, believe it).  I purposely replaced the surrounds on all three pair of the Proacs I sold a few years ago, because Proacs foam surrounds only lasted about 10-15 years max before disintigrating.  

The Ohm radial approach is nice for less critical listening, in my opinion.
I do like their sound, but a phase correct speaker like the Vandy or Theil would be a better in the long run-again, my opinion.

I saw those Quatro's at Audioconnection last week. I would contact Johnny Rutan and see if he is negotiable.
If you do want to come down, let me know, I could pack up my Zu Union speakers and we could demo them with the Vandys.
Bob

Ohm Walsh radial/omni speakers might be worth a look if wanting to try a totally different approach.  

IMO you are reading too much....I sometimes do the same

you have a very fine near point source low diffraction near baffleless design in the speaker you own today and enjoy it seems except for SPL.
that is a big big hint about what you should audition.
make the investment to go listen.
i am pretty biased for being able to tune the low end for your room used Quatros would allow you to do that...
also you own some fantastic musical gear already !!!!!

I listened to Led Zepplin II this morning on my GE Triton Ones and 2 hours later, I am still smiling.

Focus SE was already a wonderful speaker from 16Hz on up (plus or minus 2db) but making it active with the Wavelet must be breathtaking. AERIS with Wavelet is in another league and at $19-$24K-ish retail

Way out of my price range zephyr (unfortunately)

Some fine choices here including the ATCs for rock music etc....Legacy Focus SEs are very versatile and fantastic speakers at their price point or any other. The new version with the ICE amp(s) for the bass plus Wavelet would like the room on fire so to speak as the Focus SE was already a wonderful speaker from 16Hz on up (plus or minus 2db) but making it active with the Wavelet must be breathtaking. AERIS with Wavelet is in another league and at $19-$24K-ish retail (depending on use of Xilica or Wavelet and choice of finish), it competes well in the upper price strata speakers out there....The later designs on AERIS are less 'monolithic' by far, certainly worthy of a listen and look...

fdemello,

Member thieliste has 3.7s. Might want to PM him.

Dave

Seems like they historically have been said to need big amp power, but not sure about that model.  Supposed to have great time alignment and imaging.

Thiel CS-3.7's on AG for $5k. Any people here familiar with them compared to the speakers we have been discussing?

Thanks for all the advice guys.  Appreciate it

Audiotroy, I think this may be the second time someone said the Zu's are 'colored' and I don't know why that description was used. Zu's to me, are pretty neutral. Though I do agree with your description of the Golden Ear's- They are just not my 'cuppa'. 
And, if you do make the trip, just be sure to give the dealers a 'heads up' so they can make time to show you what you want to listen to.

You may want to consider products from Odyssey Audio.  Many audiophiles feel that their products represent one of the biggest (if not the biggest) bang-for-buck deals out there.

Klaus Bunge recently released a speaker that is astonishingly good and competes with speakers in far higher (and I mean FAR higher) price brackets.  It is called the Liquid.  Here's a link to it being discussed on Audio Circle:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=134874.msg1432249#msg1432249

His amps are amazing as well, and (as the speakers) represent one of the best values in high end audio.

BTW, I have zero affiliation with this company... but am blown away by the sound and value.

@twoleftears 

" There's one of those right now on Agon for $4.9K and further room to negotiate. How would the bass compare between the Focus 380 and the Contour S3.4 LE? "

The 380 is rated deeper, at 30Hz, vs 35Hz for the 3.4LE.  But that doesn't mean much as to the quality of the bass.  The Contour is a higher line, and may have more bass articulation.  Perhaps others have direct experience.

One of the other gentleman gave you some great advice.

You are not that far a drive from NY area. In one fell swoop you can go to 

Audio Connection and hear Vandersteen, Proac,B&W.

Audio Doctor: you can hear: Legacy although big they are fantastic, PSB, Dali,Paradigm, KEF, ATC,   personally if you are looking for a small foot print dynamic speaker a pair of ATC plus a small sub and some power will amaze you, one of the best speakers ever made for rock and they play super loud. Most modern rock recordings were mastered on ATC. 

As per the new vs used argument, many dealers have good deals on demo models which may have a nick or two but come with full warranty and support and we have many models which would fall under that umbrella buying used is cheaper but most speakers don't have transferable warranties and if you blow up a driver you may eliminate your savings. 

Also with purchasing through a dealer you are almost always guaranteed support and advice on getting the best out of your new speakers.

Woodbridge sells the Golden Ears. I have heard them three times at shows and dealers, and got totally different demos one they were too bright the other too dull the bass is impressive and they do play loud. I do agree with you they are ugly unless you setup up to the new and much more expensive Reference version. 

So in one day you could hear almost every speaker you could want to audition.

If you are a rock guy Magneplaners are not the best, Spatial speakers are interesting I have heard them at shows and was not blown away same with ZUs both were way to colored both do play loud. 

There's one of those right now on Agon for $4.9K and further room to negotiate.  How would the bass compare between the Focus 380 and the Contour S3.4 LE?

Late to this post but I moved from the British sound of Harbeth SHL5 to Dynaudio Contour S3.4. The LE version may be even better. Much different sound, like the protective film being ripped off. Transparent but not bright and will play as loud as you can stand it and very dynamic. The Esotar2 tweeter is one of the finest. 

twoleftears - agree looking used on some of these is the way to go. Starting to do that more

gdnrbob - thanks for the info. Good general rule. I am starting to lean toward new with trial period (Spatial/Magnepan/Zu) or used. New Triton 1's if I'm blown away and don't despise the looks. Or some of the Vandy's used.

I think the Tekton's & Legacy's are just too monolithic for my space so I'm starting to move away from them as options

fdemello, email me at ctsooner@alumni.ou.edu.  Yes, I knew that store. 

Re: depreciation. I would say resale of new items is roughly 50% original price, in general-Which is why I buy used. You are more likely to recoup the money spent buying used should you decide to sell.
Which is why, since you have no local dealer, it would be good to take advantage of Zu and Tekton's trial period.
With that said, I still encourage you to see if you can either come down to NJ to listen to the speakers to, or to find another Agon member who will let you listen to the Vandies or any other speaker you are considering. There are a lot of nice members here.

The Focus 380 looks nice.  Have only researched the Excite series so far. Triton 1's are my next demo. Thanks mtrot

Yesterday, I got to hear Goldenear Triton 1 and a bunch of Bowers and all the Bowers and Wilkins 800 series speakers(at two different dealers). I didn’t know much about the Triton 1, but I have to say that for $5K, that is some pretty dang good stuff. Not going to win any beauty contests, however, if that is important. Ribbon tweeter, great sound stage, nice cymbals, good dynamic impact, pretty well defined bass guitar lines, pretty deep bass. The salesman there claimed that the Triton I had been compared to the B&W Nautilus and was judged to be its equal.

Next, I heard all the 800 series at Magnolia Design Center at Park Lane in Dallas. I had likewise not heard B&W speakers in decades, as the rap back in the day was that they were not the most accurate speakers, possibly designed to be "euphonic’.

First, IMO, the 800 D3 series are a bigger jump in sound from their lower lines than is the case with many speaker companies. I first heard the CM10 S2, which sounded nice at $4K. But then I heard the 804 D3, which actually appears to have less cabinet volume than the CM10, but somehow B&W gets more and way better bass out of the 804, along with much better mids and highs. The 803 D3 seems awesome, with REALLY deep bass for the size of the speaker. I don’t know how they do it. The 802 perhaps was not a great match for the room, as it didn’t sound quite as good as the 803 to my ears.

Now, at $5K, I’d really have to look hard at Goldenear Triton I. Most well known name brand speakers at $5K are just pretty small speakers, with limited bass extension. The CM10 S2 are very nice, but don’t go deep at all. Dedicated Audio may still have this set of Focus 380 for $5K, which would be awesome, as it launched at $10K.

https://www.dedicatedaudio.com/collections/floorstanding/products/dynaudio-380-floorstanding-loudspe...

It's starting to look like I may have to bring this budget down.  Would prefer to be $5k or < now. New or used is ok.

Resale will also be a factor since I'll want to have the option to sell and not lose too much if I don't like the speakers in my environment.

Out of the speakers being discussed which are the top 5 in holding their value?  I would assume the Maggie's would be there.

Anyone have resale thoughts on some of the comapnies that sell direct (Zu, Tekton, Spatial)?

ctsooner - I hate dealers like you described. We used to have a great local dealer in Westport, MA (Sound Images) but they closed about 10 years ago.  Bought my CJ/Rogers stuff there. 
Having a great dealer to work with nearby is awesome

Yes, I was an audio free agent when I started to rebuild my system a few years ago.  I went up to Boston and Walt up in NH (daughter is a jr at UNH), but I loved Johnny.  I didn't love what was being pushed by two of the larger stores up there.  I recently was in NYC to try and audition some gear and ended up at Lyric again. I had used them in the 80's (Jadis) and for an Aragon piece for a friend, but the guy who owns it now was a real dick.  He told me how dry and unmusical my Ayre gear is and he knew because he was a dealer many years ago.  He hasn't even heard the new 20 series, but he just pissed me off, so I left and made sure to let anyone I know how poorly I was treated.  

Sorry, that just came out, lol.  Oh well, they get what they deserve.  Yes, Johnny has the Proacs as he realizes that not every one is a Vandersteen fan, plus he also carries B&W and I think NOLA or maybe it's ELAC.  not sure.

+1 for John R. I talked to him twice when I was looking for speakers and both times he talked me out of replacing what I have and asked me to focus on room treatment first. He even sent me some audio files/tones to help me accomplish what I needed. I know where to go now if/when I need audio gear, especially since his shop is only an hour away from our house.

John is great to work with, he will find the right fit for you. 

Hi ctsooner. Lot's of great advice/reminders in your post.

I'm going to e-mail/call Johnny at Audioconnection to start a dialog. Would really prefer a local dealer but we'll see how that conversation goes. Thank you

Lots of good suggestions thus far. I just heard a pair of Prana Fidelity Fifty90. Excellent speakers - not harsh at all. Dip down into the upper 30sHz range. Easy to drive - heard them with a 25watt tube amp playing rock music - no problem. Seriously good sound.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Proac D30R or D48R used

That would work heinrichmilw

If you are in Mass. then it would behoove you to try to come down for an afternoon.
The Zu's are more direct and many like their reproduction for rock music

Good suggestion gdnrbob. Possible. Thanks for the Zu feedback as well. They are in the running

If you are in our neck of the woods New York/New Jersey we have quite a large number of speakers that are fantastic

Thanks Dave - If I go to audio connection I can probably piggyback this
 

Get those 148s. 

Very tempting sbrownnw.  Talking to him. It could be the end or a step towards where I end up. Should be able to sell them if need be. I think I have a buyer for my Rogers so I'll be without speakers soon.  Also tempted on some of the direct sales companies with return policies (Tekton, Spatial, Zu).
I did hear back from Clayton at Spatial and this was his comments regarding my situation/noise:

The MF2500a is rated at 100dB signal to noise ratio, so it is very quiet. Should be no issues with noise through the speakers. The system you describe would seem to be a very good setup for the M3. I don’t see any red flags at all.  Your placement plans are ideal as well.

Thanks all

I've owned many Proacs over the years and the first really non fatiguing speakers they have on the market to me are the newest ribbon tweeters, but for what the OP wants, they will be out of the price range probably.  He's need the larger ones if he wants to play rock and move a lot of air.  Again, JMHO.  

I love the Treo's and the CT's even more.  They won't move the same amount of air as the 3a's will though.  The newest ones are very detailed, especially compared to the list of other speakers in this thread and they will move a ton of air, without the need of subs.  

If I'm the OP, yes, I'd go visit a dealer or two to audition.  Will the speakers sound the same in your room as they do in the dealership?  No of course they won't, but much of the time, your house will sound way better than a dealer's room will.  Most have others speakers in the room and that will hurt any audition.  They have no choice usually, unless it's their TOL speakers where they may be able to dedicate a room.  It's a tricky slope for any dealers and they try their best to give you a great experience.  Just keep in mind that they too have personal likes and dislikes and will often push you towards something they like even if you may like something different.  Stay true to your own ear and listen critically to music you are very familiar with.  You already know these things, but it never hurts to read it again.

Before we packed up the Treo's for Bob, I let him hear my full system.  As he can probably attest, I don't have any special room tuning devices, just well engineered and built components that are properly set up.  That's the one thing that Johnny Rutan can do and that's set up a room. He goes to the Boston area all the time for installs, so that wouldn't be a problem for you.  I personally feel that it's worth it.  I have been setting up system since the early 70's for folks and Johnny is as good as anyone I've seen in the business.   I've had reviewers as other dealers in my various rooms over the years to set up things, but none have done what Johnny has done, that's for sure.  

Sorry, didn't want to make this post a commercial for Johnny, lol., but as I was typing I just kept going as it's how I feel.  I'm sure that many others here feel the same way about their dealers who are setting up their gear. It's one reason why I purchase only gear from major companies who have been around and have strong distribution in the US.  They keep their value better than small boutique companies and are easier to sell later on when I upgrade and if something does go wrong, they are there to service their gear and stand by it.  I can't tell you how many times I needed a service on a piece of gear that was way out of warrantee and a company just charged me for parts or gave me a very discounted rate in order to make sure their product was in great working order and that I had a great user experience.  I went again with Vandersteens, because of their upgrade policy for original owners (same with Ayre and why I went with them too).  I like to know I can pay for the upgrades as it adds many years to the life of my gear.  It's been much cheaper in the long run and allowed me to do upgrades when I feel it's worth it.  

Sorry for the long post, but it's been a boring morning and it's always fun sharing.  Just chose a few speakers to audition and set those up and go from there.  It sounds like you just want a non fatiguing speaker that will have nice detail and move some air in the room for some great rock (I too love rock).  Fun thread and thanks for starting it.

Get those 148s. Watching great AV through themnow plus plan on spinning some Bowie later. Is amazing how they can compress a room 

If you are in our neck of the woods New York/New Jersey we have quite a large number of speakers that are fantastic in your price range and we have two of the models you are looking at:

We have the Legacy Focus Signatures, the PSB T3, KEF R Series, Dali Rubicons, Paradigm Personas and Prestige.

The Legacys are fantastic and a great value for the money. 

The Personas are amazing superior resolution and sound staging they sound much more like $20k speakers for $10k.

I work part time doing occasional Turntable setup and system tuning, ask for Dave at Audio Doctor NJ,

fd,I bought ctsooners Treo's- upgrading from the 3a sigs.

I second giving Johnny Rutan a call or PM him (he's audioconnection on Agon). If you are in Mass. then it would behoove you to try to come down for an afternoon. Audioconnection is about 30-40 mins away from Manhattan. (I know a NY to Boston day trip is very doable- you guys have a great arboretum). Though you may be at the other end of the state.
Even if you got a room for the night, it would be a worthwhile trip.

Re: Zu speakers.
I mention them because they are highly efficient and use no crossovers- a very interesting design.
I own a pair of Omen Bookshelves for my office and a pair of Union ( Omen predecessors) and can attest to their honest sound. They aren't bright and quite listenable, but then that will be up to your ears.
Like I said, the Vandy's have a true elegance with regards to sound. The Zu's are more direct and many like their reproduction for rock music.
Bob

<$200

Good price on the 148s.  Wonder how much shipping would be?  Black would not be my first choice...

Most of those ProAc Studio brightness threads are the 140s, which have
a different tweeter. The 148s have the same tweeter as the response line

Duly noted.  Thanks