list of speakers

thank you @daviddas! You are very kind.

Every time I add another data type it's a great way to QC the existing data
(and of course shows a lot of errors I made, I am so bad at entering data)

Kind of like displaying stuff on a map!

@grislybutter

Outstanding Job!!!

Including the Speaker Photos add a lot of value. This was a terrific idea. I can only imagine the number of hours you have spent to compile this valuable free resource for our members.

I salute you Gabor!

I am bookmarking your website as a handy reference.

@lanx0003 @daviddas @tomic601 I finally added photos and a few more fields. It's a good thing I didn't know how long the photos would take me because I would have then never started :) 

same place...

@russbutton I am the opposite with building things. I spent a week building a WC10 case for my daughter's Marantz 1060, brought it up to her and.... it did not fit!!! 1/10 of an inch too small. And it's just wood. Imagine if I touched a transistor!  

I envy people who can build things. I can't even open something and put it back together without breaking it. 

But I enjoy good sound and thanks for sharing the link and the story!

@grislybutter  I've been an audiophile since Nixon was president.  The last commercial loudspeaker I ever bought was my college dorm speakers, the KLH Model 32, which were the lowest cost speaker one could buy at the time.  Since then, everything I've owned was a home-brew of some sort.  Kit loudspeakers were designed by solid professional engineers.  You don't have to be a Master's Degree Electrical Engineer to get a good loudspeaker.  I tried my hand at designing and building some speakers, most of which came out pretty good.  The most difficult part of building a loudspeaker is making it look like good furniture.

When you "get your hands dirty" in building your own gear, you become much more involved in your system.  There's an exceptional amount of pleasure and joy that comes from building your own, even if it's just from a kit.  When you're in this passion of audio, you become an audio engineer to some extent.  The deeper you get into the weeds, the more involved you become and the more informed are your choices and results. 

Siegfried Linkwitz was one of the truly great audio engineers. He's the Linkwitz of the "Linkwitz-Riley crossover."  You'll see that mentioned many times in audio.  Siegfried lived in Corte Madera, California and was more than welcoming.  Just a friendly guy.  He chose to create something for the DIY community that would give them access to an audio experience they could have never afforded before. He was just a nice cat.  He passed away 5 years ago, but left a wealth of knowledge behind him.  His website can take you days and more to read through and learn from.  Everyone on this forum is trying to improve their systems and learn from each other.  Siegfried's website is one of the great gifts to the world.

thank you @russbutton  for the clarification. Sound like these speakers/speaker system is on another level.

@grislybutter All you have to do to clear things up is for you to read up a bit on the Linkwitz LX521.  Because it has an active crossover, it requires 8 to 10 channels of amplification, depending on how you choose to run it.  

Most all commercial loudspeakers use a passive crossover and you use just one 2 channel amp to drive them.  But with an active (It's call "active" because it is a powered circuit) crossover, you have separate amp channels for each driver in the loudspeaker.  There are excellent reasons for doing this not the least of which is that passive crossovers throw away much of the energy.  This is why so many pro grade powered loudspeakers use active crossovers and multiple amp channels.  

Active crossovers are vastly better than passive, but generally do not lend themselves to the commercial paradigm where the buyer purchases loudspeakers and then later purchases a better amp to drive them.  It's just much easier for audio dealers to work with and sell.

The LX521 is a two-channel stereo loudspeaker.  It first began as a DIY project designed by Siegfried Linkwitz, to be an extreme hi-end loudspeaker that a home builder could do.  It was so successful that a commercial version was created and is sold in Europe.

Because it involves the loudspeaker enclosure, a 4-way active crossover and 8 to 10 channels of amplification, it is often referred to as a "system", and not just as a loudspeaker.  You can buy the whole system delivered to your doorstep, with amplification, cabling, as well as loudspeakers (offered in a variety of finishes) for a bit under $30,000 US.

You can also build it yourself with a kit from Madisound.  This could be done, including amplification, for as little as $6000.  It's extreme hi-end that we mere mortals can afford.  There are other ways to get into the LX521 that don't require you to be a wood worker.  Madisound sells a flatpak CNC cut kit you could build them from.  They also have cabinet makers who could build the enclosures for you.  They also sell the active crossover.  Building the system yourself teaches you a great deal about audio and gives you a vastly greater involvement in your system that a straight commercial purchase can never do.

You began your original post talking about your dream loudspeakers.   You never see the LX521 loudspeakers on the used market because they really are extreme hi-end and are the "forever" loudspeaker of their owners.

Because they are not a commercial product shown and sold at any USA audio dealers, there is a network of people around the country who are available for you to visit and listen.  Making a choice like this only makes sense when you've heard them for yourself.

@normb I agree that it's frustrating. But in the same time, it's feedback too. I am not perfect either and can occasionally pick up the glove - I should just focus on the positive responses.

@grislybutter 

So sad that there are people who have the time to find fault, insult, browbeat and otherwise harass others on this forum but honestly, in the year or so I’ve been perusing this site’s threads count yourself lucky there were only 2 tools out of 50 posts - so far.

@normb thank you! It's a start, and becoming a team effort. I hope it will grow into a decent list.

“But, but, but, what about [fill in the blank]!“

Only a few folks suggesting this so far.

Kudos @grislybutter I enjoyed scrolling through this. Solid work.

So far?

@tunehead

I haven’t done it. There are a lot of pros and cons of doing it and I am open to input/data entry/feedback/corrections to well meaning fellow enthusiasts and manufacturers as I posted it to the website with my contact.

I just want to control what goes in, my time is limited and I prefer quality over quantity.

Ironically I absolutely suck at details, data entry, accuracy, it takes me 4 times more to generate clean data than for a "normal" person. So I pick my battles, do I want to enter data or have someone else enter it and I validate it? I spent $200 on fiverr during the summer to have someone else enter 3 days’ worth of data. It took me weeks to fix it. (And this was after corresponding with 10+ people nobody cared to do it for whatever $.) Yes, I learn from my own mistakes :) I could have so used that money for an upgrade... but truthfully, I would have tried the outsourcing anyway, no regrets.

Sorry for the long winded answer. Your idea is great, it would add a lot of benefits, I just don’t have the time to implement it - yet.

@russbutton I took the time to read your passive aggressive post and respond. Now you are attacking me. (While I admit, and always say, I am no expert, not at all.)

But let’s put it aside, maybe you have some issues you need to work on. And I am a sensitive person, after 200 hours of "community work", I hope for intelligible and not insulting feedback. Which was, out of 50+ comments - about 48/50, so I am happy with it.

About the substance of your posts: very confusing

it’s a system, not just a loudspeaker.

Any time you match amplification with loudspeakers, it’s a system

Which one is it? Are you contradicting yourself?

But it’s OK. I don’t have time for this. We can agree that we disagree and I always learn, one way or another.

Don't know if you have done this, can't do this or don't want to for what ever reason but, is it possible that this data base could be open to this community for additions/edits like wikipedia? Could make your job a lot easier and grow fast.

Thank you for all your work. I tip my hat to you.

@grislybutter  Your response to my post really shows your lack of knowledge.  Any time you match amplification with loudspeakers, it's a system.  The crossover is part of it as is the cabling.  The Linkwitz LX521 *IS* a 2 channel loudspeaker, but seeing as how you know nothing, you know nothing.

@russbutton the list is for full range 2 channel speakers. NOT systems. Nor subs. Or sound bars or swim goggles

You're on a limited budget, but you still lust for your dream audio system.  The website you pointed us at doesn't include any mention of the Linkwitz designs.  The Linkwitz LX521 system (and it's a system, not just a loudspeaker) can be had as a DIY project.  You could probably do it for about $6,000 or so, total for loudspeakers, active crossover and class D amplification.  Being that it has an active crossover and not a passive one, it is more complex than your typical commercial product.  But in putting it together, you result in a system that is right there in any discussion of hi-end audio.   Visitors will leave your home with envy.  Trust me on that.

Hi @lanx0003 did you get my emails? I have a couple questions. Thanks! Gabor

@lanx0003 sent it

@julie_priest thank you! Are you not seeing ATC?

One of the most impressive things I've seen on these forums for the last one year. Wow. 

Would love to see ATC, Genelec, Dutch & Dutch and Kii there :) 

@grislybutter Great.  Let me expand my preliminary investigation of the SSW index to include all speakers that have polar plots, and correlate them with either reviewers' assessments of the perceived SS width or my own experiences. If you could provide me with the model names column only, I will input the index directly. This way, you can easily incorporate and sort the index into your spreadsheet (assuming it's in Excel), saving you time and effort. You can cross-check the index with your perception to ensure consistency before accepting the data.  You could send the model name column excel to my personal email cjlan01@gmail.com.  Thx. / CJ

@lanx0003 this is better than what I expected. I am learning a lot from you. And this is exactly the direction I wanted to go: to translate raw and scary numbers to adjectives and comparable rankings that beginners can use to educate themselves and make somewhat more informed decision, try speakers with more confidence. So, in short, yes, absolutely, I want to explore it further with you, properly credit sources and contributions and expand my database with more useful features.

I am getting my head around what you wrote and how I can use that data.

I overlook Erin's Audio Corner, whose state-of-the-art Klippel measurement does not rely on anechoic room either as claimed due to the nearfield mic. placement.  Thank you for bringing the spinorama site to our attention.  Yours is still a great supplemental site of it but, as a matter of fact, yours contains more information.

One crucial point I'd like to emphasize is the lack of attention to soundstage (SS) measurement on various audio sites. However, I believe a close approximation can be found in Erin's horizontal/vertical polar plots, which consistently align with the perceived soundstage of speakers I've either owned or auditioned. Consider incorporating this data as a reference to create and report a Soundstage (SS) index. For instance, based on Erin's measurements, the horizontal dispersion range for the Wharfedale Linton I owned is approximately 140 degrees. By dividing this value by the 180-degree plane, a Soundstage Width (SSW) index could be devised, resulting in 0.78. The index would range between 0 and 1, with a higher value indicating a better soundstage. Please let me know if you would like to explore this idea further. I believe it could be a valuable contribution to the good of the community.

@lanx0003 It's reassuring that you didn't see a lot of deviations. 

I found a site, with the help of Erin's Audio Corner:spinorama.org - with a lot of models!

And you overestimate what I know :)

But I am using my ignorance as a strength, I know what beginner's do: very little. 

@grislybutter You possess more knowledge in the realm of audiophiles, and you're likely aware of how manufacturers measure and publish frequency response (FR) performance data. I'm uncertain whether they use an acoustic anechoic chamber or send their products to a chamber built to standards for testing. Hence, credible reviewers conduct independent measurements for reporting purposes. For instance, Audioholics has performed measurements in an open space at a certain elevated position to simulate a free-field condition and minimize ambient noise. Stereophile, to the best of my knowledge, tests speakers in an anechoic room, though I'm unsure if it's built to calibrated standards. Andrew Jones, on the other hand, has utilized simulation and modeling programs to calculate frequency response in a simplified, rectangular room, considering the known directional characteristics of the speakers, among other factors.  

The frequency response is a crucial criterion influencing my purchase decisions, which is why I suggest including it. I frequently cross-check with FR data measured and published by credible sources. Occasionally, I notice deviations from the manufacturer's published data. In such cases, I believe it's essential to use your best judgment in selecting the source for reporting and always provide references to avoid any potential misinformation.

thanks @lanx0003 !

I spent 100s of hours looking up and entering this data, and now I was told frequency range published by the manufacturers can be unreliable/can't be trusted. 

It's a wild ride, but fun.

@grislybutter a lot of information are available on line right at your fingertips.  For example,

TAD Compact Reference One (TAD CR1TX) 

https://www.technicalaudiodevices.com/compact-reference-one-tx/, where you could find general spec. and detailed driver tech aspects.

If specific speakers have been reviewed by credible sources such as Stereophile, you may find specifications and measurement information there.

To determine the regular sale price, you can search 'xxx for sale' on Google if the price is not listed on the official website. Some manufacturers do not list it, allowing dealers the flexibility to set their marketing sale prices. Prices can fluctuate over time, so pinpoint accuracy may not be necessary.

Dutch & Dutch 8c

https://dutchdutch.com/collections/8c-speaker.  For this famous active speaker, the manufacture lists the sale price since it is a direct sale company.  You could find other valuable information in Stereophile.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/dutch-dutch-8c-active-loudspeaker-system

If you need assistance, I will be more than happy to offer my time to provide additional information for your.  Let me know.

@shtinkydog yes! The preamp sounds fabulous!!!

@grislybutter I hope all is working out for you, man!  

 I tried to add the companies first that some of you suggested. I am not adding anything that doesn't have any data, and I spent a ridiculous amount of time trying to find the company's founding date and headquarters/factory city for a few of them - hours. I emailed the companies and none of them responded. So what you see is mostly the companies that I had the time to research and found data for. It takes about 30 min for each company and if I am lucky, 30 min for 3-5 speakers to properly enter into the database. I sent out a lot of emails for missing info, with a 3% response rate, 1% useful info. I know it because it was ONE company willing to send me a price list. 

hi @lanx0003 

I already planned TAD. Mission, Cabasse and Devialet I have also heard of, will add those for sure. 

I will message you a question about your suggestion. 

Thanks for the feedback. 

Congratulations, @grislybutter! This is excellent work that can benefit everyone here and beyond. I understand you might be in the process of filling in some missing brands and models. In addition to the suggested add-on list from @yogiboy, I'd like to recommend the inclusion of the following audiophile brands:

TAD, B&O, Mission, Qualio, D&D, Cabasse, Devialet

Additionally, fwiw, one critical piece of information appears to be missing from your database. That is the frequency response at the factory or reviewer's measurements at a preset SPL threshold, such as -3dB.   

@mbmi  also if you tell me what’s not on this list or give me pointers, that would help ,

@ronboco I did what I could, I started with cheapest and most expensive model and then one from each category of 1-2K, 6-10K, 16-20K. Then I tried to make sure to have a somewhat even representation of a company's selection. For big brands, I added at least 5 models.

@mbmi if it’s 1/3 already, that would be sweet. But it’s probably even less.

good list but very incomplete....2/3 of the speakers on the world market are not on this list...but thank you for posting...it's only a start.

@grislybutter 

Great list! How did you decide which models to include for the brands you selected? I see you have Rockport Atria ii and Lyra but not the Avior ii. Thanks again for all your hard work! 
 

regards 

Ron 

Very impressive effort.

@thecarpathian my English needs a lot of corrections, I welcome any feedback, thanks!

@grislybutter ,

Looking great!

One word smithing suggestion; I wouldn’t use the term ’space age’. The space age has existed since 1957. I suggest ’cutting edge’ or similar. Never understood why that term didn't wither decades ago...

switched to https

@falconquest the items on the list are companies I have heard of or read about. I knew of Legacy Audio but I had zero context.  I will add it of course. Please forgive me, it won't happen again :)

How in the world did you leave Legacy Audio off the list? 😁

@yesiam_a_pirate thank you! I suck at monetizing things so I usually get "in the shed" on the weekend for the labor of love :)  But nothing is free in life, so yes, adding new features and data would be boosted if it was run a bit less like a hobby.

Wow! It's very impressive.I can barely imagine the amount of work you put into that.

What a great site Grisly! Lots to fun to surf .  Thank you for the hard work and clever idea.  I'll bet some speaker manufacturers would buy ad space on this site if you choose to monetize it. 

@grislybutter I love your responsse to me.  I wish you all the luck in the world.  Jerry

@jperry I think it’s a great idea, thank you, I am moving it the top of my list. It would make it very easy for me. I thought of two more flags, "discontinued" and "new" which then the manufacturers could give me too.

I did reach out to a lot of them to get or clarify data. At that point I had nothing to show. Out of 20 (repeated) requests, I received 2 responses. Hopefully it would be different this time.

@waytoomuchstuff we all win :)

@thecarpathian I will start with geography/maps which is part of my day job. I am still too dumb about which measurements really matter. All your suggestions are added to my todo my list :)

@carlsbad2 I agree with you, ratings can be a pain. But my biggest concern is that without critical mass, it will be more confusing than valuable. It would also be counterproductive to my goal (I think) because it would further popularize the best selling models and "leave" the unknowns behind. My goal is to show the breadth of options and thereby help the "little guy" - to give choices besides the "Toyotas and BMWs"

Hey, categorize all speakers by sensitivity! And price! And country of origin!

(Although sensitivity is a pretty cracking idea.)

You’re not gonna have a free weekend for a loooong time...😉