LAIV Harmony

@sns Thank you for your review!

@kereru Thank you, this very informative! I can appreciate all the work you've done in regard to integrating best input on Harmony, and you have very nice equipment which gives much authority to your conclusions.

I only question the implementation of USB in the Harmony, both my Musetecs have more sophisticated usb, not saying the Harmony's bad. I've also bought into the theorizing that transport clocking much more important for R2R dacs vs other topologies, this https://dcs.community/t/dcs-ring-dac-a-technical-explanation/2724 Far too involved reading here for most, just talks about clocking and timing in ladder dacs. So theoretically, Harmony should sound best with highest quality external clock.

So, my next question is, are we playing on a level playing field here? Are the I2S and usb we are implementing to feed the Harmony of equal quality. I'd theorize your usb more greatly optimized vs the I2S you've implemented, same for the youtube video, usb in both those streamers superior to i2s. I could also say just the opposite for those reviews in which they found the Harmony to be superior with i2s vs usb. In any case I haven't explored optimizing i2s as I have usb, initial exploration has me reaching for Denafrips Gaia, and to keep things as equal as possible, AQ Diamond HDMI.

And I agree, the Harmony provides great sound quality with my optimized usb implementation, I too suspect Weng-Fai may be incorrect in coming to this conclusion, I've always found changes in usb chain affect sound quality, even in those dacs where usb not optimally implemented.

HQPlayer is whole other can of worms with me, I use Euphony OS on a custom build server, HQPlayer, Roon and this OS don't play well together.

I've also played f with various footers, stands over the years, I could go on and on. Final solution for me has been dacs and any equipment not too weighty are hung from custom built racks with extremely high test monofilament fish line. This how Harmony, Musetecs and signal chassis of my Coincident Statement pre situated.  I like how this method simply lets the vibrations flow into fish line rather than damp them with various footers. I discovered this method many years ago with cdplayers. you could actually see the players move about in relation to cd's spinning, rather than damp that movement theorized sympathetic movement would result in best sound quality. This has proven to be true for me, all footers, stands, and the materials with which their built with impact the sound quality in many ways. Hanging components with fish line comes closest to no footer which means no impact on sound quality. Wish I could find some manner of magically levitating all my gear! For gear I can't hang for whatever reason I like Stillpoints on various platforms, platforms made from various thicknesses of steel, aluminum, various woods, I keep a stock of these to experiment with. And then beyond the platform, what the platform sits on, I could go on and on! Anyway sound like you much like me, we like to experiment, well worth it!

@sns Cheers and interesting re your fish line suspension, pretty novel, cool to hear it works well for you. What is your 'optimised USB implementation' BTW, sorry if I missed it?

On the subject of USB implementation in the LAiV this just dropped review is rather positive, indeed the whole review is very positive. The class of his review system is top notch. 

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/digital-reviews/spdif-dac-reviews/laiv-harmony-dac/

Conclusion

The beautifully sculpted Harmony DAC has a hugely revealing nature, but it is timbrally realistic, natural, and much like a chameleon. Combine it with a super-accurate and neutral source, and the DAC’s analytical quality will relay this in all its precision. Conversely, when combined with an organic and liquid-sounding source, the DAC will also relay the music in all its lushness and sweetness without overlaying any character of its own.

This is what I think a high-performance DAC should be like: not a component to EQ your system with but an open window onto your source. Such excellent performance usually comes with a much heftier price tag, and it is a miracle that the Harmony DAC achieves this at such a reasonable price point.

And re USB in particular

The Oladra/Harmony DAC combo takes a huge leap in solidity and control when switching from coaxial to USB. The Vermouth Reference USB cable is still a favorite for its even-handedness and ability to work well with virtually any source and DAC, but it is not the most robust or expressive cable I have. Nevertheless, with this cable, the DAC provides excellent clarity and transparency, combined with good articulation and toe-tapping PRaT, topped off with beguiling fluidity, refinement, and air. This result speaks clearly to the quality of the USB interfaces on both ends.

@kereru Sonore OpticalModule>OpticalRendu>Audioquest Diamond usb. AfterDark optical cable, OM to Teradak LPS, OR to Uptone JS-2, Mundorf silver/gold DC cables.

I'm ok with usb for now, at some point I'll get around to I2S, not in any hurry.

@sns your USB implementation looks pretty sweet, some nice gear there, I wouldn't be in any hurry either. By contrast I need to up my cable and PS game a little and agree the U18 whilst solid is far from the last word in I2S, the Audio-Gd DDCs with regenerated power on the order hand, they're pretty special. 

@kereru Forgot about Audio-gd, the DI-24SE very interesting, and price point very nice.

I picked up a Denafrips Hermes DDC about two weeks ago and it's working quite well with the Laiv Harmony.  The Hermes now receives a coax input from a TEAC 701T CD transport and a usb input from a Bluesound Node 130.  The Harmony receives an I2S input from the Hermes.  Previously the Harmony received coax from the transport and usb from the node.  The improvement in CD sound is primarily spatial, with a slightly deeper and wider soundstage, and also better bass extension and definition.  Without resorting to a lot of "reviewer speak", I think CDs with the Hermes in place just sound more enjoyable.  The really big bump up in audio performance comes with streaming from the Bluesound Node: everything sounds better from this very modest streamer with the Hermes in the signal path.  Bass is deep, full, and tight; soundstage is precise with lots of air around the musical sources; and the overall presentation is very natural and smooth.  I'm very happy with the Hermes and the Harmony is too.

@smweber2 i had a similar experience when I added a Hermes between my streaming source (MacBook pro) and my Pontus II.  It made a noticeable difference in all the same areas you mentioned as well as transient response.  

Ongoing experiments with Laiv vs Musetec 006. I've been listening to Musetec in main system for several weeks, burn in now up to 300 hours, probably a good 30 hours of that serious, undivided listening sessions. In the meantime I had Harmony burning in on second rig and purchased the already planned for Denafrips Gaia, so further burn in with Gaia via I2S slaved to Gaia clock, just over 100 hours on this setup, so around 250 hours total on Harmony.

Harmony via optimized usb, won't go into great detail here, but usb optimized over many years, many devices, final solution has been optical conversion via Sonore devices. So, upon initial listening sessions thought Harmony via usb pretty nice, prior review reflects that. Over several weeks of listening and burn in Musetec furthered it's advantage over Laiv, both dacs via usb, this based on my memory of how Harmony sounded in main rig. So finally got back to Harmony in main rig, first via usb. Via usb Harmony sounded rather flat in comparison to the Musetec which had improved quite a bit over the weeks of burn in and listening. Sound stage and imaging decent, devoid of comparison to 006 most would probably find it to be quite nice, but it simply didn't have the image density or the ability to escape front baffle of loudspeakers, just rather flat or meh. Tonality or tonal balance also off, lack of air on top, I'd say it was rather dark sounding. Transparency also took a hit, veiled and opaque compared to 006. Both macro and micro dynamics also not up to par, simply somewhat flat and lifeless. While my initial listening to Harmony via usb had been much more positive, the evolving sound of 006 had now made the Harmony a meh listen. Rather like midfi, not very interesting or involving, clear cut loser to 006. I should add this all via NOS mode, since my initial listening in OS mode found it inferior to NOS mode by quite a large margin.

So, now Harmony with Gaia via I2S, clock slaved to Gaia. I don't usually go for hyperbole, but just WOW! Immediately could hear a far more expansive sound stage and the image density just floored me. Gone was the dark presentation, now airy and open at top, bass was also far more articulate and impactful. And talk about black backgrounds, I thought 006 excelled  here, well Harmony with Gaia presents an even more ethereal experience, relief from a background plane which allows lowest level details to stand out, I more clearly heard hard to make out words in vocals, and background instruments, this above and beyond what I thought was excellence with 006. Complex passages and/or recordings with many performers now much more fully realized and organized/differentiated. And transparency certainly a huge notch up, no more veils or opaqueness, performers in room quality heightened over the already impressive 006.

All in all I was not quite expecting this, I was expecting something along the lines of subtle differences between this and 006. As it stands today, if I were to only have one dac it would be Laiv/Gaia vs 006, this combo stands head and shoulders above 006. A more analog like presentation presumably due to ladder dac's inherent superiority via chip dacs. And then you add to this all the above mentioned advantages over 006, really not much of a contest here. Now, I'm not entirely convinced yet, 006 more development via more burn in, 006 will be partnered with Gaia via I2S. Not sure what to expect, but usb in 006 is more technically developed in 006 vs Harmony, Harmony usb pretty ordinary. In this case 006 may not benefit as much from I2S as the Harmony. Also, I've long heard I2S is preferred choice for ladder dacs in general, providing precise timing for massive banks of resistors is necessary for best performance. In any case I'm absolutely convinced  Harmony's potential will not be heard via usb and/or nothing less than the  best external clock via I2S. I'll offer the external clock needs to OXCO, not TXCO or femtoclock, and the internal clock in Harmony is femto. While clocks within dacs should have a theoretical advantage being closer to I2S path, a far superior external clock will better that.

I should add, this review is as much about the Gaia as the Harmony, the Gaia is a special piece. And to think present setup far from optimized, presently using relatively cheap,  $70 copper I2S cable (not hdmi cable, I2S cables only have 9 pins wired, all other pins video related), I have Tubulus Concentus pure silver I2S on order. Also using relatively cheap Pangea  14SE power cable, already in midst of upgrade here. Finally, using stock feet on custom build baltic birch platform, will likely use Stillpoints on a different platform eventually, Point here is I suspect further improvements with Harmony/Gaia can be achieved.

For a more contextual or larger view, $2700 for Harmony, $1800 for Gaia makes for a $4500 total expenditure, add to this a quality power and I2S cable. The Tubulus is $700, my diy power cables are a relative bargain, but I'll assume at least $1k to match, now we're at aprox. $6200. And I could add the cost of Stillpoints. My question than becomes at what point do I still call the Harmony a bargain, could I do better with something like the T&A 200 or used Mola Mola Tamlbaqui?  Is I2S necessary with every dac in order to extract max performance?

I am using the eversolo DMP A8 with I2S DH labs silver cable in the Laiv dac. 

It brings me to 5,2k$ for streamer, cable and DAC combo.  Futhermore, the streamer has DSP to fine tune the sound as i want.  A lot cheaper than than your 6.2k$ and i am really happy with that.  I must admit I have a great pre amp c2800 that help a lot...

@dandion Certainly having a streamer with I2S output negates the need for DDC. I could output I2S from my custom streamer via Pink Faun I2S board, this would be less costly solution but went with Denafrip's superior technology here. No doubt a high quality pre required.

Getting away from financials, the Harmony's capabilities extremely high!