rinpoche,
The only thing I can say regarding your question above as to whether or not the 2 AQ cables are real or fake is that both members have good buyer feedback so one likely can expect that they are trustworthy.
Also, to your point, it is your ears and your budget and therefore your decision , not that of someone else that offered "direction"
|
My dealer loves them with the Wilson's.
I think this seems to be a good deal — used — and so if I didn't like them — for whatever reason, I could always sell them again.
|
Seems like the dealer knows the Devaliet is in fact worth more than the wires. It sounds like a bad deal. |
Sorry, that was very confusing. I see a pair of Wel on sale used elsewhere for a lot less money. They are older but does that matter? It was before the new connectors were implemented. I did not mean trade the Devialet for cables -- that would be a BAD deal. Very bad. But used AQ Wel might be good? No?
I also can buy CC Ultra from Croatia for a good price. |
Based on my experience I would limit how much I spent on cables and invest in a preamp. No absolutes, this is based on my system: JR 625 S2 amp, JR Aeris DAC, JR Corus preamp, Bryston BDP2, and Monitor Audio PL500's. Besides speakers, adding the Corus preamp was the most rewarding change that I've ever made. After speakers and the Corus adding the Torus power conditioner had the most positive impact on the sound. |
Re the AQ cables -- I am a very satisfied user and buyer/seller of lots of WEL. WEL will beat WBY any time. As to the connectors don't worry, the old ones are fine. You should expect to pay no more than $2K (give or take) for a used 1M WEL interconnect. In general avoid 0.5M cables as they are a) the most expensive per 1M length, b) least useful in most setups and as a result c) hard to sell. AQ price books can be obtained from the AQ web site and typically expect to pay 25-35% of new price for a good quality used cable
AQ also stand behind their cables very well and will re-terminate or change the length of your cable at a reasonable cost
Finally if you are buying new you should expect at least a 20% discount, any dealer that is not prepared to offer a discount on AQ cables is having you on
Needless to say the Devialet for WBY trade is a dog |
Needless to say, the Devialet trade is terrible. I totally agree. And if I gave the impression otherwise, I am sorry for the confusion.
Folkfreak (I really like your user name), the choice is Blue Yonder 1 m for less $$ and newer cable, or Wel .5 m for more $$ but both are a good deal. Thing is, I don't really need more than .5 m. The DAC sits on top of the amp?
Ricred1, I agree but I am not in the market just yet for the preamp. It will come. Maybe in 6 months to a year. I will look to see if there are any good used preamps that will work with the 625. A Corus perhaps, but how often do they come up? A tube amp, perhaps? Maybe a demo. I would like to hear some with the amp but first want to spend sometime getting to know it as it is. So, a good cable makes sense, no?
|
Folkfreak, can you tell me what WBY means? And would it make sense then to go with the Blue yonder which is 1 m over the .5 m Wel?
|
WBY is "Wild Blue Yonder" which is the full name for the AQ Wild cable
WEL sounds so much better than Wild, if you are going to get a cable hold out for the WEL. The Wild for sale has no box which is a major no no with a used cable, easily reduces the value by 10% -- there is no reason it should have been sold sans box. My guess is based on the look of this pair is that they were cut down (by AQ, which is fine) from a longer set, the condition looks just like the way AQ returned my 12M WEL when I had it cut down to an 8M and two 2M cables
Of the two WEL for sale one (the 1M one) is odd. I have never seen a pair with a silver finish XLR, most are gold. Check the AQ price books to see what they should look like. This to me is fishy. I checked all the AQ pricebooks I have and none show a silver finish XLR. The newest with this old connector is Nov 2011. By 2013 they had switched to the newer connector so maybe around 2012 they used a different finish which would accord with the four year age but definitely worth a question and maybe contacting AQ. Also I have never seen one in this box (should be a fabric inner box with a flock finish outer like the 0.5M one, again maybe things changed more recently but this is the finish of all the ones I have seen and owned)
The second 0.5M pair looks good and is I believe a dealer demo (that's why it has the little plastic sleeves on the male end). Again no issue but check if the seller is the first owner and where they got it from
An issue with WEL XLR cables with this termination is that the XLR plugs can become disconnected. They are cold welded (basically screwed tight) to connect and if someone twists the connector relative to the cable the connections can be broken. You can fix this by taking the cable apart, or of course send back to AQ for re-termination (about $250 if I recall)
So net net if you can make 0.5M work in your setup then go for the 0.5M one, and offer closer to 25% ($1500) as a start for negotiation
|
I offered 1500 for the .5 m Wel and he accepted it.
|
Bodhidharma would enjoy the emptiness of this moment. So will I. |
|
Not sure what Bodhidharma might have enjoyed, as he seems to have decamped some 1500 years ago... But I might ask my cousin Luca about it.
As for WAL, I hope that RIMPOCHE will let us know soon about its synergy with Aeris and M625 S2... As far as I know, this might be a World's first application in this particular context. Saluti, G. |
I'd feel pretty certain that the AQ cable will work fine, but given its very short 0.5 meter length I'd be hesitant to read too much into such a finding. Given also that the Transparent cables and perhaps also Crystal cables that were used initially were probably significantly longer (the degree of most analog cable effects is proportional to length, as I had mentioned), and break-in of one or both components may be ongoing.
Best regards,
-- Al
|
Hi Almarg, Would you mind translating this for me? Are you saying that .5 m cable is not good in terms of sound? And what do you mean by 'but given its very short 0.5 meter length I'd be hesitant to read too much into such a finding'? I am not sure what you are saying?
Also, the DAC is definitely broken in, and I think the demo 625 is well on its way. I don't know for sure how many hours of operation.
R
|
Hi Rinpoche,
Apologies for my post not being stated more clearly.
No I was definitely not saying that the 0.5 meter cable would not sound good. As I indicated, "I’d feel pretty certain that the AQ cable will work fine."
In the post just above mine Guido expressed interest in learning from your forthcoming experience how well the AQ WEL synergizes with the Aeris and the 625 S2. When I said "I’d be hesitant to read too much into such a finding" I was simply saying that given the AQ cable’s short length, and given (as I said in that post and also earlier in the thread) that the degree of most (and probably almost all) sonic effects an analog interconnect cable may introduce is proportional to length (meaning that the degree of the sonic effects of an analog interconnect will be proportionately less for a short length than for a longer length), and given that the cable(s) you are in a position to compare the AQ with (the Transparent and perhaps the Crystal) were probably significantly longer, the data point your findings will provide relative to his question will be less than conclusive.
Best regards,
-- Al
|
Hello,
Thanks, that helps.
You see, there is a 1 m Wel for sale also. But, of course, it is a bit more money. Other than resale, there is no point spending more as far as I can see. I trust the cable will be fine. I will get it, connect it, and leave it. And probably not think about it again until I buy a preamp down the road. Unless it sounds terrible , that is — but again I have few comparisons. I only have this loaner Transparent that to me sounds a bit blah to my ears. Buying the Wel means I won't buy the Crystal Cable interconnect or any other cable. I will just leave it in the system and hopefully be happy. |
You see, there is a 1 m Wel for sale also. But, of course, it is a bit more money. Other than resale, there is no point spending more as far as I can see. I agree completely. In fact spending more for the 1 meter WEL could very conceivably be sonically counterproductive. As I see it, in general the goal should be for a cable to have as little effect as possible on the signal it is conducting, and to convey the signal it is provided with in as accurate a manner as possible. In the case of cables conducting analog audio signals, it follows from what I have said about the relation between cable effects and cable length that a shorter cable will provide greater accuracy, and introduce less coloration, than a longer cable of the same type. Best regards, -- Al |
PERFECT!!! Thanks Almarg! R |
Hi Rinpoche,
I think it'd be fun and educational if you got 1 pair of the inexpensive Mogambi Gold Studio XLR cable for comparison to the esteemed AQ cable you're buying. I'm curious to read how much of a difference you'd hear between them. It's easy to make these suggestions with someone else's money. 😊 For record I feel you've assembled an excellent audio system.
Charles. |
Thank you Charles, and everyone on this discussion. You helped me more than you know. I did take instruction and advice to heart. You are a great bunch and I am so grateful I started this in the first place. It is my first time doing this and it has been incredible, I think. Also, you all seem passionate and engaged in your own musical experiences and that is what comes through loud and clear. |
Its never a good idea usually to dive right into the deep end when swimming or buying, especially with consumer electronics where there are so many options both good and bad at so many price points. One almost owes it to themselves to try something well accepted and affordable like the Mogami pro wires first. What is there to loose? You can keep it as a spare or sell it easily for little loss if a comparison or change is desired. You’ll never know what is possible at various price points unless you try. Or in some cases money does not matter which is fine. But every dollar put into cables, fuses, amps, speakers whatever is a dollar that might be used to better effect elsewhere. It does require some time and patience to follow an orderly process that efficiently leads to good sound for reasonable cost. Also I understand that time is precious.. Just my two cents.... |
Hello,
I hear you, Mapman, and I agree. Here's the thing — with Guido's wise words — it seems that the DAC and amp will do splendidly on their own without the immediate need of a pre-amp. It might be fine forever that way. So, the only thing missing in this set up is a cable. One interconnect XLR. I budgeted for that. My x-dealer raved about the cable I found on Audiogon, and it was a great deal from my point of view. Less $$ than the Transparent loaner, which I found to be a bit blah. So, I can love it or list it -- as they say, and break even. Nothing to loose. Only experience is gained. Win win situation I think. If it doesn't work, I can always try the Mogami cable. The Dac has a new fuse, a new cord, and so on — it came that way from my nephew for free. What more is there to add? How might the thing be improved? I had no other plans. |
P. S. I am Canadian. We all dive right into the water/deep end. The water is way too cold to wade in slowly. LOL |
Rinpoche, You've tested out the waters pretty well. Not much else to do now but enjoy. |
Loving Jennifer Warnes at this very moment!! |
Have you heard Peter, Paul and Mary sing All My Trials!! So gorgeous!! |
Rinpoche,
Absolutely logical explanation and response. It isn’t "always" necessary to take baby steps. Your Wilson and Rowland system have you perched at a pretty high level in the realm of High End Audio . Finding a highly regarded cable (that’s needed to complete your system connection ) for a very attractive price makes nothing but good sense. The Mogambi suggestion was made in part to satisfy my selfish curiosity. You have good ears and I would have been interested in your listening comparison.
Charles, |
Maybe one day Charles1dad!
I am finding that transcendental moment even with the Transparent loaner cable. I think the AQ is going to be amazing. I really do. But I will let you know next week when it arrives and settles in. |
Rinpoche,
It's funny how we choose to listen to the advice that suits our needs. I understand what Guido said about the 625 and Aeris DAC, but he doesn't have the 625 S2 with his Aeris DAC...I do. I'll be the first to say, it's only my opinion, in my system, but there is a significant difference between the 625 S2/ Aeris DAC and the same combination with the Corus. In my system, with my ears, it isn't close. ..more dynamic, air, and just a sense of ease with the Corus. |
Hi Ricred1,
This is one of the classic timeless High End audio debates, active preamplifier versus direct source to power amplifier. I consistently find I prefer the inclusion of the active preamplifier, personal taste and nothing more. I do believe that Rinpoche is hearing excellent sound with her current direct set up, it’d be quite interesting to see her impressions if given the opportunity to insert the Corus or other high quality preamplifier into her fine system. You never know until you’ve experienced both approaches.
Charles, |
Hi Richard, to be more precise, my experience has been with Criterion rather than Corus. I have applied it to M312, M625, M725, and my current M925 monos over sevral years. While I am incredibly happy about driving my system without preamplifier, I do recognize that some might prefer Corus in the chain.
I might give Corus a try actually, as Rowland will be releasing the external 3-outputs power supply based on ultracapacitors, called PSU. PSU can power up to three compatible devices with DC power 24/7... Currntly, it is compatible with Aeris and Corus... Yes, both connected at the same time. People who have tested said its effect is transformative. Eventually, I hope to verify this on my own system... I would not be surprised if I fell in love with Corus all over again.
G. |
Charles,
You are correct and that's why I stated in "my system and to my ears." My point was that Guido is using a different, more powerful amp that may or may not be a significant factor in why the Aeris is great directly into the amp. Finally, we don't know what we don't know. If she hasn't added any active preamp, she doesn't know if it can sound better. |
Guido,
As much guidance that you have provided me, I'm certainly not saying your wrong. What I'm suggesting is maybe be more conservative with cables, try a active preamp and then make a more informed decision on what has the most impact on her system. |
Hello all,
I did hear the 625 S2 with a preamp. I heard it with a high end ARC and it was really stunning. It was warm and just gorgeous. That is why I thought down the road I might add in a tube preamp. But, that decision, if you have learned anything about me here, will take time. I would love to hear it with the Corus as well. Of course, I am sure it will also sound fabulous. My dealer didn't have the Corus on hand to hear. Once I reach that plateau, and we all know it will happen, that will be the first thing I audition. I could let you all know when it happens, because I am sure it will. It is an exciting adventure and today I was loving where I am at. Although they say it's the journey and not the goal, when it comes to music, both are critical. You are an amazing bunch. Thank you so much for sort of holding my hand through this. Do you do this all the time because Audiogon is lucky to have you. |
Richard,
I hear you and we're on the same page,
Rinpoche,
The vast majority of audiogon forum contributors are nice folks who try to help others as much as possible. There are the few negative sarcastic and "know it all" types who reside here. Fortunately they are truly a small faction.
Charles, |
You might be right Richard, I have played with some exceptional wires in my system. It is quite possible that they have enabled me to part with the linestage. The Audioquest WAL that Rinpoche has purchased is completely unlike any ICs I have ever used... Silver solid cores, that I believe are buried inside air dyelectrics. Will WAL induce Rinpoche to try out a line stage sooner than later, or will it have the opposite effect... Impossible to predict.
As for me trying the linestage route once again... Never say never again *Grins!*
|
Hey guys, I'm new here but I've had my valve amp for nearly 30 odd years. I felt like there needed to be servicing done to it so I took it in for repair. I have also a Mcintosh pre amp I constantly use. Anyway.. The place I took it to actually restored my valve amp back to like I bought it from the shop back in 1989. You can find the guys here below: They actually also repair speakers and other electronic equipment too! https://www.facebook.com/SpeakerHospital/ |
Hi Rinpoche,
Here is my little prediction for your upcoming AQ cable :-
WGWAWWTW.
Also, I may have missed it in the thread but what are you using as cd player?
Rgds.
J. :) |
Hello jon2020,
Another mystery!!
No, I am not using a cd player at the moment. Should I? |
Rinpoche,
Are you playing from a laptop/music server?
J.
|
I am playing from a laptop but I am open to a music server. Any suggestions? |
So you are using the usb input of the dac which is similar to what I am doing now. I don't have any suggestion for a music server as I am sooo very happy with my recently acquired Esotetic N-05 usb dac.
When I find a local music server dealer who allows a home audition, then I would be able to compare with the current set-up, which is a whole lot better than my previous standalone Esoteric K-01 player.
Enjoy! J.
|
Hi Rinpoche there are a number of good servers on the market today. One of the brands that seems to have gained the most respect is Aurender. They have servers ranging for below $3K up to $17K. The higher end models are extremely flexible in I/O, and apprarently incredibly musical sound. One of the features that makes Aurender most interesting is that they incorporate a mass storage system... Some of the higher end models have a two-tier system... A very large HDD for storing your entire library, and a solid state drive where the devices moves material for playback... SSD is faster than HDD, and has negligible jitter.
For output to Aeris, you can use USB, or even better, SPDIF/coax if you select M10 or W20, which is the transfer mode which seems to be most used by the Rowland gang on their shows demos.
Have a look at the various Aurender product and list prices:
http://www.aurender.com/ N100, M10, and W20 include the two-tier storage system. N100 has only USB output, while M10 and W20 have also SPDIF/coax.
Aurender has Canadian as well as US dealers... Including our mutual friend Angie of American Sound:
http://www.aurender.com/page/dealer-audiophile
But the answer is no... I do not have an Aurender server... I am still using my trusted Esoteric X-01 as a transport into Aeris... But... One of these days *Grins!*
|
Look at Aurender and Bryston digital players. The Aurender N10 is a little pricey. I have the BDP2 and use it to stream Tidal and listen to CDs that I've burned. My friend said the N10 sounds better than the BDP2, but I'm happy with it. |
BDP2 is also very nice... But it does not have on board mass storage.... But I would not be surprised if a hypothetical next Bryston servr will be equipped with mass storage in one form or another. G. |
I appreciate this, but I am not buying a server. At least not now. I have a long usb and that will do for now. I thought you meant did I use a music center like J. River or some such thing. I use MAC so I am actually mostly on itunes and wouldn't mind trying a center like Audirvana. I have Tidal but I am not convinced by the quality of the files. I would love to hear you all weigh in on this. R |
|
rinpoche if you are soliciting opinions on Tidal then I will weigh in as loving it. I think the sound quality is excellent for the most part one thing to keep in mind though is the source they are using, i.e. some are remasters some are not, some were recorded well, some were not. But I think it sounds as good as CD's that I've ripped and stream, and its tough to beat the selection. I listen daily and love it. The one thing Tidal doesn't have yet is high rez, that may or may not be coming down the road.
|
I concur with jond. In many cases the sound quality fom Tidal equals the qualitiesof CD's that I've ripped. It depends on the original recording. |
