Okay, leave it with me. I will figure it out. You are all very sweet. R
Jeff Rowlands Amp and Dac vs. VAC amp and DAC
Hello, I am new to this forum but I have a question. I am trying to pair an amp + DAC with my Wilson Sabrinas. I have listened to Jeff Rowlands integrated with the Aeris DAC. And the VAC Sigma integrated with the Aeris DAC. Price is a factor and so is space. Does the 625 need a pre-amp? Any suggestions or thoughts?
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Exactly. That's what you want to add to the sound of your system. I will make last statement regarding cables. Take it with some scepticism. We, Purist Audio fans, are not idiots and generally have good hearing. Whatever else in our systems we change, one thing almost always remains the same - we keep using Purist Audio cables, though sometimes change the model. Tube equipment, solid state equipment, hybrid equipment - no difference. Digital source, analog source - no difference. |
Inna, according to rear panel photos I've seen of the Aeris and the 625 S2 , those models conform to the XLR convention that is standard in the USA, Canada, and many other countries of pin 2 non-inverted and pin 3 inverted (with pin 1 being ground). You are remembering correctly that some of the older JRDG designs did the converse. Regards, -- Al |
From an experiential point of view, I found Nordost Valhalla II, Shunyata Z-tron and CX, Cardas Clear Beyond, as well as Furutech Evo II and bulk wires to be "goldielockian"... That is, the wires are extended, musical, have significant harmonic exposure, but do not give preferential treatment to any particular section of the audible frequency band. Furthermore, they are all wires that do not easily intermodulate high friquencies... This means that they are not clinical but are immersive instead, and do not easily create yield a jarrying sound in complex treble parts. G. customizations |
P.S. to my post above: Even if pins 2 and 3 were interchanged relative to the usual convention in the Aeris and the 625 S2, it wouldn't matter as the two reversals would result in the correct overall polarity. And that would continue to be true even if a preamp were inserted between them, assuming the preamp's polarity convention is the same at its output as at its input. Regards, -- Al |
Rinpoche, if you consider Purist I strongly suggest you talk to member albertporter and also perhaps to Jim Aud, Purist designer. Albert has a wealth of knoweldge of high end audio. He is currently also Purist Audio and High Fidelity cables dealer. This should not affect his objectivity much. He might be able to send you some demo cables to try and would give you a very good price on new cables. There is a reason why there are many Purist models. You would be unable to figure out by yourself which one would be best for you unless you try them all. If Albert cannot answer your questions he will contact those who can. |
I have not heard the newest Purist cables, only older ones. If you pushed me to take my somewhat educated wild guess, I would say that without spending too much the current Aqueous Luminist edition for a little over $1000 should be about right. If this is too expensive - probably Poseidon. Nothing lower than that, that's for sure. |
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If its a standard balanced IC that is needed in particular, where sound differences among wires should be minimal if any, I would forego all the high end audio brands and look at pro audio vendors for a good quality wire for reasonable cost and call it a day. I bet Almarg knows some good candidates there. |
Thanks, Mapman. On June 11 and June 12 I had posted the following in this thread: Regarding interconnects, if I recall correctly all of the equipment possibilities that have been mentioned would be suitable for use with balanced XLR interconnects. While opinions about cable selection tend to be all over the map, as you may have seen in any number of other cable-related threads, FWIW my suggestion is that initially, at least, you simply purchase some inexpensive Mogami Gold Studio balanced cables. And who knows, despite their modest price you may find them to be suitable for use permanently.Regarding the comments about low capacitance in my posts earlier today, the capacitance per unit length of Mogami Gold Studio is somewhat higher than in the case of most of the cables Guido suggested, but the short length that is required should make that difference inconsequential. Best regards, -- Al |
Yeah, why not try Mogami too, it costs nothing? However, pro-audio and audiophile audio are not the same things. One of the differences is that they would try to save every cent to increase the profit, we would not. I tried DiMarzio cables, something very popular with musicians as guitar amp cable. Yngwie Malmsteen comes to mind. Good cable, no match for Purist. I did try RCA though. |
Okay, so my dealer just emailed to say that I have to return the loaner to the shop. Now I need to really decide. I will figure something out. Does anyone know anything about Siltech 770i (Or some such number)? There is a used pair for sale. And/or I can get the same Crystal Cable at a not too too bad price for sale. Or, buy something -- dare I say it, new? |
rinpoche, if you need 1 meter length and want to buy yourself time to look around and decide upon what you really want without having to rush into a purchase I have an extra pair of unused balanced Silnote Audio Morpheous ICs that you can have and be yours to keep at no cost to you. If you're interested in my offer send me a message as I'd be happy to help you out; if not no problem. |
Yeah, excellent move. Rushing to spend $1000 or more for a cable that might not be the best choice would make little sense. I would be happy to hear that Mogami balanced works great, but more likely something more expensive will be required. The biggest difference between DiMarzio and Purist was in the midrange, though both the bass and tremble were better too. Still, that DiMarzio was very clear balanced and dynamic. And the difference was bigger with digital. If Mogami is similar to DiMarzio it should also be something like that, that's good but not good enough. |
CODA makes some very nice products, Rinpoche. However I see that the link at their site for the specs on the 15.5, while going to specs that are stated to be for the 15.0, indicates an input impedance of 50K unbalanced/1K balanced. And the link for the manual for the 15.5, while going to a manual that is stated to be for the 15.0, indicates an input impedance of 50K unbalanced/10K balanced. Presumably it is best to use the balanced outputs of the Aeris. The Aeris may or may not be able to drive an impedance as low as 1K with optimal results, but more often than not a preamp (if you were to eventually purchase one) would not be able to. And many preamp designs, especially those that are tube-based, would not be able to handle 10K with optimal results, either. Best regards, -- Al |
Rinpoche, If you had the JR 625 S2 at home and are still considering other amps, I just don't understand? No, it's not my money, everyone hears differently, and has different priorities. If the JR 625 S2 is played within it limits, there aren't too many amps that will better it. Yes, there are amps that sound different, but after listening to many, many amps I don't understand what you're looking for? |
Hello Ricred 1, I don't have another amp at home. I bought the JR 625 and I love that everyone on this discussion has been so supportive and helpful. I am very happy. My Wilson dealer just got the Coda in. I have a friend who is looking for a used amp. So, sorry if this was confusing. It isn't for me -- I have already made my decision. Now I am on to cables!!! And next year or if I win a lottery (LOL) I will add a pre-amp to complete the system and have many hours of happy listening. Sorry for any confusion. R |
Rinpoche, Sorry, I was confused also. I'm glad you settled on the amp. Take your time putting together your system and enjoy the ride. It took me a very long time to get to this point. What helped me was going to RMAF last year. I'm came away with a real understanding of what sound I preferred. Not what was best, but what my preferences were. |
rinpoche, By all accounts, the Wireworld Platinum cables ricred is using with his Rowland gear are excellent and that should be a solid bet. Don't let anyone turn you off of the Audioquest interconnects though. I use Niagara's which are a recent vintage AQ silver cable that are detailed, smooth...just great. They can be had at bargain prices when purchased used. The WEL cables you mentioned should be better by a good margin and are showing up at near 80% off here occasionally. They would be hard to beat. |
Hi Rinpoche, I am not familiar with the Blue Yonder.... I am thinking that before you go for the swap, you give the cable an in depth audition.... In general it does take 300 to 500 hours for a new IC to yield its best. In the end, you will be able to determine quite reliably on your own if the Blue Yonder is worth your Devialet in trade in, or it is not. As usual, trust your ears, and listen to our pronouncements solely with the proverbial "granu salis". Cur verba volant, sed sonus manet. G. G. |
My suggestion about the proposed trade: Tell the dealer that before deciding you’d like to borrow the $6000 cables so that you can compare them in your own system to a 1 meter pair of Mogami Gold Studio, selling new for less than 2% of that amount. If she were to agree, and you do that, let us know the results. Opinions will differ among different audiophiles as to the merits of the proposed trade, of course. But personally I’d no sooner trade my Porsche, which I love, for a pair of Nordost Odins :-) Best, -- Al |
Porsche or Odin system loom? This would actually be an intriguing proposition "only" if the Odin caused a stunningly transformative improvement in your system’s sound quality. Al, I’m mean genuinely astonishing / sublime effect of which you’ve never experienced. Quite the the hypothetical situation. ☺☺ Charles, |
Yes wires worth that amount should trounce anything from Mogami. No way to know unless you try. You could end up better financially by spending less on wires and investing that money elsewhere in your system down the road if needed. Its pretty senseless in my mind to drop a fortune on something based on retail price without any real basis for comparing its performance to other more affordable high quality options. |
We are headed in the wrong direction, I think. Whatever we say Rinpoche appears to return to one brand - Audioquest. Who can say why? Anyway, $6000 buys great used tube preamp, be it VAC or Lamm or something else. Or new Herron, as an example. No cable in any system is worth that much money until the system is complete. This one is not. Of course, if someone just must do it it's not really our business, but I certainly wouldn't be able to applaud it. |
I can barely differentiate Vedic Sanskrit from Middle Persian, but one thing I am sure of. From slightly different perspectives four brands have been recommended to try first - Mogami, Purist Audio, Wireworld and Shunayata. Chances are that at least one of them would work really well, or perhaps all of them giving a little different presentations. |
I agree completely with the foregoing comments. While I perhaps worded my Porsche/Odin comment more subtly than I should have, my main point (in addition to providing a bit of perspective on the cost of some of the cables that have been mentioned) was that I would not expect the proposed trade to have much likelihood of being sufficiently transformative to make sense. And I would expect that likelihood to be even lower in this case than in many other circumstances as a result of the technical characteristics of the components that are being connected, as I indicated earlier, and by the short length that is involved. An approach that stands a much greater chance of being sonically rewarding, IMO, would be to sell the Devialet 200 integrated amp (which the last time I looked had a list price in the USA of just under $10K), and applying the proceeds to or toward the combination of a preamp and much less expensive cables. Just my $0.02. Best regards, -- Al |
There might be a few things that complicate the matter. Rinpoche is a professor. It is hard to be a student when you are a professor. She is a student here. Listening to advices is one thing, following them is something completely different. I also believe that she doesn't want to deal with private sales, dealers are probably okay, so there may be a problem of selling that Deviolet amp. She might not have Audiogon feedback either. Selling something like that with zero feedback would be very difficult even at lower price. She might not want to buy used, especially privately. Some people, more often women, don't buy anything used including houses and cars. Used is used, you know, it belonged to someone else, and in a sense still does. But really, Rinpoche, there are Mogami studio XLR 1 meter pair cables on Audiogon. $95. You would do us all a favour to get them. Yes, I don't believe this will be enough, but I may be wrong. Please. $95. |
One thing I do agree with is that "we are headed in the wrong direction". While I do listen and learn and value all of your suggestions, in the end it is my ears and my budget at play. So, there have been many suggestions given throughout this 9 page discussion. Some great, some good, and some ..... I am listening and learning. As I keep telling you all (especially Inna). I am a Canadian and as such I use a Canadian audio site to sell stuff so I do have a very good profile with positive feedback. I don't use Audiogon because they charge a fee and shipping from Canada is expensive. The Devialet is on sale — it sells for 9999 new. I have had few real offers or I would sell it. I would never sell it for the price of a 6000 cable. I just wanted you all to know. As for AQ, I used them in my last stereo and at the time (15 years ago) they were fine. Now I have Crystal Cable (for very specific reasons — it had synergy with the Devialet). The loaner Transparent sounds muddy, so I will not keep it and have to return it. However, one of the kind people on this thread is sending me a cable so the immediacy of getting 'the right one' is not as urgent. And, you all know, it is a personal subjective thing — I think we could agree on that? I have been looking at the brands you suggested but have not found anything used for sale. I love used. I am a woman. Oh no, maybe I don't fit the stereo-type (no pun intended!!). As for being able to differentiate between Vedic Sanskrit and Middle Persian, I am sure you could tell by the script that they are different. But I have to say I found that to be very funny. One thing I can't digest and yet I respect and appreciate are the technical specifications. I remember when I heard the Sabrinas. Peter McGrath from Wilson was there. So, too, were about 10 men who had gathered for the audition. For the first hour all they did was talk and talk about 'specs' and tweeters and so on. Finally I asked, 'do you think we could listen to them?'. Peter laughed and said, 'oh of course.' The thing about used gear is that you might not always find what you are looking for!! And I really don't think that goes for houses. I mean, who only buys new houses? I am a student on this discussion. I have listened and acted on some of your advice. But, I am not bound by it either. R |
In this situation I'd sell the Devialet and use the money efficiently as possible i.e, bang for the buck approach. I agree wholeheartedly that there'd be enough money on-hand for both a very high quality preamplifier and sufficiently high quality 1 pair of interconnects. Al, ,back to the hypothetical . It the Odin loom were found to be truly '" mind blowimg" transformative in your system would you be tempted to part ways with the Porsche? Think about it, a lover of classical music with "mind blowing " music reproduction in your home 😊😊 Charles, |
If the Odin loom were found to be truly ’" mind blowimg" transformative in your system would you be tempted to part ways with the Porsche? Think about it, a lover of classical music with "mind blowing " music reproduction in your home.Nope. No chance whatsoever. And I can always go to a live classical concert for even better sonics, in most cases at least. But that’s just me, and I recognize that it comes down to individual preferences and value judgments. Best regards, -- Al |
Hello, Okay, so explain this to me. My dealer says that AQ Wel and/or Blue Yonder costs more than $8000 CAD for a 2 m XLR interconnect. And on Audiogon there is a .5 m Wel with dbs for $1895 and a Blue Yonder for $1360. Now are they 'real' of 'fake'. How does one discern this? Even AQ suggests there are fakes out there. They look real from the pics. I am not stuck on AQ by any means, but wouldn't this be a good deal if it was authentic. Also, a guy in Poland is selling a Crystal Cable Ultra interconnect for a reasonable price. I am a bit nervous (yes, it's true) about this deal, but it is a great product at a good price? So, guys, what do you think? |
Uhrn... Mayhaps Rinpoche is a "student", but in the sense of being a questing scholar, not in the sense of being in a subordinate position akin to the child who is expected to follow the teacher's ex cathedra pronouncements. So, let us share our experience, bering in mind that we are not the keepers of the "Trueth"... Lest we could start writing for Pravda. |
