Hello -- From everything I have heard I agree with you. I have never had a tube amp. I initially went out looking for one. I loved the VAC. It was gorgeous. But it is also hooked into my TV. I was just nervous to have a tube amp. It was a personal thing. But I hear you. You make it sound easy. As a woman, it is also about not having to think about it. Even a screw for each tube -- I would have to learn how to do that. I mean, of course I could. But ... maybe as a second amp for deep listening. I just haven't found the need yet. I am very happy with the JR set up. But maybe one day. It is an adventure for sure.
Jeff Rowlands Amp and Dac vs. VAC amp and DAC
Hello, I am new to this forum but I have a question. I am trying to pair an amp + DAC with my Wilson Sabrinas. I have listened to Jeff Rowlands integrated with the Aeris DAC. And the VAC Sigma integrated with the Aeris DAC. Price is a factor and so is space. Does the 625 need a pre-amp? Any suggestions or thoughts?
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I have VAC Phi 200s and it literally takes me five minutes and no techie equipment to bias them. Just adjisting an easily accessible screw for each tube and watching for an led to light up. Really simple. Output tubes cost about $40 each and should last at least 2000 hours. You can start listening immediately after turning it on, and takes 10-15 minutes to really warm up. I have utmost confidence in the reliability of these amps, more so than ARC or others. And a Kevin Hayes is a true, patient gentleman. My 2 cents! |
In terms of ARC, I don't know -- it just didn't touch me the way that the JR did. It was lovely and I even paired an ARC preamp with the JR amp -- so nice -- but overall I went with the Corus. The VAC was also gorgeous. I am just not sure that for all uses a tube amp is the way for me to go. The 625 does not need a preamp. It sounds amazing just with the Aeris in my opinion. BUT, I wanted the fullness that I think a preamp brings to the system. I was fortunate to receive one as a gift so that was a no-brainer for me. Still, I think I would have gone that route anyway. I stack the 625 and Corus so space is not an issue. Not saying this is a good thing to do, but it is better than not having them -- if I had more space and longer cables I might spread things out a bit more, but I don't. It also has to look good. So, whatever one you decide on is the right one for you. In this line up you can't make a wrong choice (in my opinion). Also, you might start with the Aeris and 625S -- then when your listening plateaus -- add in the Corus (or tube amp). I find the PSU is going to be a welcome addition to this set up. |
Hello -- again, Someone wrote to ask me how everything has worked out. Well, I got rid of my Devialet and purchased Jeff Rowland 625S amp + Corus to go with the Wilson Sabrina's. I love it. I just added the JR PSU and I am hoping this will provide the warmth that I am looking for. So far, so good -- but I am only at the beginning of the break-in time. All is well here and we are really loving it. Sounds fabulous. Brings out the best of all worlds. I hope this answers your question. There is no way the Devialet can compare, though it is an amazing machine for the price and for what it does -- pretty much everything. But the JR is incredible overall and I am so happy I listened to my own ears plus some practical advice from my dealer and friends (Guido included). Who knows, if I found a used VAC one day I might add it in from time to time. But for every day and all uses, JR is the man. |
Thanks. I appreciate all the fine suggestions. I have one crystal cable power cord from the old set up. And a Transparent usb that seems fine. Otherwise, all is well. I must say I don't philosophize about equipment but equipment enables me to philosophize, if that makes sense. best wishes to all of you, R |
Oh, forgot to mention. Your computer could benefit from good power conditioner, not sure about the dac - after all it's Rowland. Also, usb cable from computer to dac matters too. I heard that better Audioquests are pretty good, so should be Purist Audio of course if he makes them. I don't use computer in my system, no first hand knowledge. And the final thing you might eventually want to do, after everything else is in place, are power cords for all components. They don't have to be very expensive, but probably at least $300-$500 for each depending on length. |
As you wish, I am a tolerable man. Rinpoche, I think you should slow down, get that cable that you bought, listen for couple of months and then move on to linestage tube preamplifiers while being prepared to replace all the cables in your system when you choose one. Being prepared doesn't mean that you will have to but you might have to. Inserting tube preamp in the chain is not a straightforward thing. There are issues of electrical compatibility, connectors etc. That's in addition and before musical desirability. And it will not be inexpensive. Some of us spend years to build a system, especially those who don't have tens of thousands of dollars to throw around. And tube preamps have tubes, different tubes give different nuances of sound, it all should be tuned in any particular system. And if you want to save a few hundred dollars and not buy better tubes, forget about tube equipment, it is not for you then. I suggest you stop spending thousands on cables unless and until you must. This time may come when you have chosen your tube preamp. Try to be a good student, all right? |
Hi Rinpoche, What you would want would be a "line stage" preamp. The Lamm LP2.1 is a "phono stage" preamp, which as Inna indicated would be used in conjunction with a turntable, and would require a separate line stage preamp. Note that as in the case of most phono stages the LP2.1 does not provide a volume control. Also, a phono stage would be severely overloaded by the output of a DAC, which is at a much higher voltage level than the output of a phono cartridge. And it would apply frequency response equalization that is only appropriate for the output of a phono cartridge. Finally, you would want to choose a preamp providing balanced inputs and outputs, on XLR connectors, as well as unbalanced inputs and outputs on RCA connectors. Best regards, -- Al |
Let's not make this a gender issue, when it is all about preamps. Also, my purchases have been very clear and so have my goals. Not that I need approval here. I need(ed) suggestions and recommendations. Many of which have been very good and I have taken to heart. The preamp has always been part of the vision for the overall system. That is not the issue. I have listened to the system (as I wrote) and, to my ears, it sounds complete with a preamp. Where the individual parts come from is also not an issue that you 'all need to be concerned with, but just so you have it straight the speakers, DAC, and amp are broken in (just not all by me). The Devialet has nothing to do with this. Nor does the USB? And yes, HD files on itunes — So, let's move on and maintain the kindness and civility we have maintained for 10 pages. I was just running by an ad for a preamp I noticed. All the best, R |
Jon - what's so puzzling? rinpoche indicated earlier that she purchased the amps and that they were dealer demos. What difference does it make how she got the dac and speakers - she's had them and said she likes them She already said that she wasn't in a position to rearrange her room; a lot of us have to live with constraints on maximizing listening experience She said that she had been offered a cable to trade the Devialet for , apparently it works Throughout the thread rinpoche has said she was considering a preamp but was looking for opinions on whether to stay with DAC or insert one. She indicated she probably wait a year on the preamp. People are entitled to change their minds if they think they see value, does she need someone else's permission? Inna , time to give the male female nonesense a break . |
To recap, Mac with iTunes > long usb cable > Aeris dac > AQ Wel > JR 625S > Wilson Sabrinas. System doubles for TV audio with TV in between speakers. A few points :- 1: CD ripping with iTunes - lossy or lossless compression - AIFF/ALAC or just MP3? 2. TV in between speakers - ? interference from EMR, RFI - ? interference with soundstage 3. JR 625S - v. expensive amps, still on demo at home or fully paid for? 4. AQ Wel - ? forgotten 5. Now looking at preamp despite good sound direct from dac to amps which are not well burned in yet 6. Aeris dac and Wilson Sabrinas - bought or gifted? broken in? separate components that came without amps? 7. Devialet - expensive but...not working? Very puzzling...... |
Generally speaking, when having digital based transistor system you don't want pure silver cables. They will give you speed and resolution but often not full bodied sound. In most cases well done copper or silver/copper alloy will be overall better. Even in my analogue based transistor system with warm sounding speakers I use both pure silver and alloy interconnects, silver speaker cables. It is not that simple. There are also cables made of copper/silver/gold alloys, and Echole even uses some palladium. Think of it as putting different sets of strings on an acoustic guitar, you tune and then fine tune. |
Hello all! I am very happy so far with my new amp and I just found an add on Audiogon that I want to run by you for a preamp. I was going to wait, and still might, but when something comes along it is good to check it out. What do you think about this with the 625 S2? Good? Not good? Keep looking? Buy it? The ad says: A Sonic Masterpiece! -- Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe Phono Preamp -- One Demo Unit Available - Mint Condition, $6995 |
Audirvana is quite good....and simple which is worth a lot. There is also an ios app you can use to control Audirvana via a iPad or iPhone. Regarding servers, the Aurenders are supposed to be great, but in terms of value, although they are optimized for audio, you are essentially buying a computer. You also need another "real" computer to interface with the Aurender and rip your CD's to etc.. Plus you may need a NAS to actually store your music on. I am using a Mac Mini as a server. It is connected to an external hard drive via firewire. The mini has a solid state drive and is optimized for audio, and runs Audirvana. It also has a CD drive so you can directly rip your cd's to a digital library (the Aurender products don't.) A monitor is needed for initial setup, but after that you can run the mini and Audirvana headless via an iPad on your wifi network. Super convenient, and you can put together a nice server for about $1200. From the server you would use USB into your dac just like you are doing from your laptop. As with everything audio, I'm sure there is some sonic benefit from using a dedicated product like Aurender, but the sound coming from an optimized mac mini is great.....plus, it is something you can work on and modify yourself. |
rinpoche if you are soliciting opinions on Tidal then I will weigh in as loving it. I think the sound quality is excellent for the most part one thing to keep in mind though is the source they are using, i.e. some are remasters some are not, some were recorded well, some were not. But I think it sounds as good as CD's that I've ripped and stream, and its tough to beat the selection. I listen daily and love it. The one thing Tidal doesn't have yet is high rez, that may or may not be coming down the road. |
Some reading for Mac usb and usb audio :- http://djtechtools.com/2010/07/14/macbook-usb-port-inequality/ http://www.audiostream.com/content/usb-audio-gremlins-exposed-beyond-1s-and-0s-ifi-audio#evM2XaGXX7s... (See 5. The corollary for us would be Listen -> Experiment/tweak/rearrange -> Relisten, circum et circum) |
I appreciate this, but I am not buying a server. At least not now. I have a long usb and that will do for now. I thought you meant did I use a music center like J. River or some such thing. I use MAC so I am actually mostly on itunes and wouldn't mind trying a center like Audirvana. I have Tidal but I am not convinced by the quality of the files. I would love to hear you all weigh in on this. R |
Hi Rinpoche there are a number of good servers on the market today. One of the brands that seems to have gained the most respect is Aurender. They have servers ranging for below $3K up to $17K. The higher end models are extremely flexible in I/O, and apprarently incredibly musical sound. One of the features that makes Aurender most interesting is that they incorporate a mass storage system... Some of the higher end models have a two-tier system... A very large HDD for storing your entire library, and a solid state drive where the devices moves material for playback... SSD is faster than HDD, and has negligible jitter. For output to Aeris, you can use USB, or even better, SPDIF/coax if you select M10 or W20, which is the transfer mode which seems to be most used by the Rowland gang on their shows demos. Have a look at the various Aurender product and list prices: N100, M10, and W20 include the two-tier storage system. N100 has only USB output, while M10 and W20 have also SPDIF/coax. Aurender has Canadian as well as US dealers... Including our mutual friend Angie of American Sound: http://www.aurender.com/page/dealer-audiophile But the answer is no... I do not have an Aurender server... I am still using my trusted Esoteric X-01 as a transport into Aeris... But... One of these days *Grins!*
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So you are using the usb input of the dac which is similar to what I am doing now. I don't have any suggestion for a music server as I am sooo very happy with my recently acquired Esotetic N-05 usb dac. When I find a local music server dealer who allows a home audition, then I would be able to compare with the current set-up, which is a whole lot better than my previous standalone Esoteric K-01 player. Enjoy! J. |
Hey guys, I'm new here but I've had my valve amp for nearly 30 odd years. I felt like there needed to be servicing done to it so I took it in for repair. I have also a Mcintosh pre amp I constantly use. Anyway.. The place I took it to actually restored my valve amp back to like I bought it from the shop back in 1989. You can find the guys here below: They actually also repair speakers and other electronic equipment too! https://www.facebook.com/SpeakerHospital/ |
You might be right Richard, I have played with some exceptional wires in my system. It is quite possible that they have enabled me to part with the linestage. The Audioquest WAL that Rinpoche has purchased is completely unlike any ICs I have ever used... Silver solid cores, that I believe are buried inside air dyelectrics. Will WAL induce Rinpoche to try out a line stage sooner than later, or will it have the opposite effect... Impossible to predict. As for me trying the linestage route once again... Never say never again *Grins!* |
Hello all, I did hear the 625 S2 with a preamp. I heard it with a high end ARC and it was really stunning. It was warm and just gorgeous. That is why I thought down the road I might add in a tube preamp. But, that decision, if you have learned anything about me here, will take time. I would love to hear it with the Corus as well. Of course, I am sure it will also sound fabulous. My dealer didn't have the Corus on hand to hear. Once I reach that plateau, and we all know it will happen, that will be the first thing I audition. I could let you all know when it happens, because I am sure it will. It is an exciting adventure and today I was loving where I am at. Although they say it's the journey and not the goal, when it comes to music, both are critical. You are an amazing bunch. Thank you so much for sort of holding my hand through this. Do you do this all the time because Audiogon is lucky to have you. |
Charles, You are correct and that's why I stated in "my system and to my ears." My point was that Guido is using a different, more powerful amp that may or may not be a significant factor in why the Aeris is great directly into the amp. Finally, we don't know what we don't know. If she hasn't added any active preamp, she doesn't know if it can sound better. |
Hi Richard, to be more precise, my experience has been with Criterion rather than Corus. I have applied it to M312, M625, M725, and my current M925 monos over sevral years. While I am incredibly happy about driving my system without preamplifier, I do recognize that some might prefer Corus in the chain. I might give Corus a try actually, as Rowland will be releasing the external 3-outputs power supply based on ultracapacitors, called PSU. PSU can power up to three compatible devices with DC power 24/7... Currntly, it is compatible with Aeris and Corus... Yes, both connected at the same time. People who have tested said its effect is transformative. Eventually, I hope to verify this on my own system... I would not be surprised if I fell in love with Corus all over again. G. |
Hi Ricred1, This is one of the classic timeless High End audio debates, active preamplifier versus direct source to power amplifier. I consistently find I prefer the inclusion of the active preamplifier, personal taste and nothing more. I do believe that Rinpoche is hearing excellent sound with her current direct set up, it’d be quite interesting to see her impressions if given the opportunity to insert the Corus or other high quality preamplifier into her fine system. You never know until you’ve experienced both approaches. Charles, |
Rinpoche, It's funny how we choose to listen to the advice that suits our needs. I understand what Guido said about the 625 and Aeris DAC, but he doesn't have the 625 S2 with his Aeris DAC...I do. I'll be the first to say, it's only my opinion, in my system, but there is a significant difference between the 625 S2/ Aeris DAC and the same combination with the Corus. In my system, with my ears, it isn't close. ..more dynamic, air, and just a sense of ease with the Corus. |
