alaskaman: Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I solved my problem the hard way. I've ordered an Ayre EX-8 integrated that includes all the functionality I'd need to switch between its internal amp and an alternate signal path.
And that's just icing. I spent two months in excruciatingly deep research and couldn't find anything that competed with the Ayre box. I'd initially considered the big names that come up here all the time -- Levinson, ARC, PrimaLuna, Luxman, Hegel -- but when you really dig into it, Ayre's products are right up there with the best of the $8-20K boxes when it comes to sonics. And when you consider functionality and connectivity, only Hegel is in the same class. So going with this $11K box was financially painful, but it seems to have solved every connectivity and compatibility problem I'd had. Factor in the company's incredible support -- I actually had a chance to chat for 45 minutes with the chief designer -- and Ayre turned out to be an easy choice. Too bad the Ayre name doesn't come up more frequently here. The late founder Charlie Hansen was a brilliant guy -- imagine a 24lb 100+ wpc Class A/AB integrated loaded with every option imaginable, even an external clock output.and headphone amp & modular DAC that are actually competitive with separates.
OK, off my soapbox. I'm in honeymoon mode now, so you'll have to forgive my enthusiasm.
Thanks for your suggestion, though.
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I use an older niles 4 speaker switch control ( they make a 6 and more) It is not powered. Just passive switches, it has inputs for two amp/receivers so i can have two receivers going in and four sets of speakers coming out. i can send amp A to any or all of the four sets of speakers or the same with amp B. No electronic circuits are introduced to the signal. It adds nothing or takes away nothing.
just switches diverting the signal from one of two amps to one or all of four sets of speakers.
I am not at home so i cannot give you a model number and it seems the new ones only offer one input. i am sure with enough research it could be found.
The douk mentioned by jlamb is similar but powered. I would only use a passive switch.
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tony1954: I think you forgot to put a "Yes, I'm just being silly" emoji at the end of your posting.
And you forgot to mention buying a new house as a third option. ><Yes, I'm just being silly emoji>>
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It's simple.
Just make a decision on which amp you prefer or buy a second set of speakers,
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I own the Beresford TC-7220 MkIII and cannot detect a difference in sound when going through the box or directly into the speakers. I have a highly resolved enough system that I can hear the differences that cables make, but this box does not injure the sound that I can hear.
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Could be worse, as I also switch my two SVS Ultra 13 subs between my two pre amps when I switch my amps between my speakers
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I use this device to be able to alternate between a Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 and a Whammerdyne DGA-1 feeding a pair of Spatial X5s. It is a quality product:
https://dodocus.de/UBox3.html
You'll need to translate from German to English. I had no problem with the purchase about 3 years ago.
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The reasons why my research is leading me to believe that my original idea wouldn't have been a good fit are:
i) We’d be switching as many as several times a day. That’s a lot of wear and tear on connectors and cable if manually plugging & unplugging each time (to say nothing of accessibility to the rear of components mounted in a rack)
ii) Much of the switching would be done by family members when I'm not around, some of whom are not as careful as I’d like
iii) If I did go with a tube amp, manually unplugging cables would just be too risky. Too much chance of a cable switch being done wrong, resulting in tube gear operating without load. Pow, thousands of dollars of sophisticated gear back to the factory
iv) I’ve found only a few switching boxes that are ostensibly audiophile-grade, and I think all of them -- Van Alstine, Luxman, Adcom, etc., are no longer actively marketed or supported in the U.S. The inexpensive boxes on Amazon -- as well as DIY projects -- are too scary. Like some of you, I might luck out & pick one that works. But there’s just too much risk of dead time between switch positions, pickup noise, sound-altering connectors & internal cabling, or even a fatal manufacturing defect. Don’t laugh about that last concern. 4 or 5 years ago, I bought some inexpensive Pangea speaker cables -- something like $100-200 for 2 meters -- on Amazon. When I plugged them in, no bass. I at first thought that they just needed to be broken in, but it took only another minute of listening to realize that they had been wired out of phase. If something that obvious can slip through the cracks of an off-brand product, even if that product is marketed as "audiophile-friendly," a cold solder joint is hardly out of the question.
I’ve spent so much time, effort, and money carefully selecting each component in my system, all of this falls into the category of "the odds are against it, but the stakes are high." So I’m gonna have to abandon the idea. I'm glad I posted the question in this forum before just barrelling ahead.
The good news is that I’m discovering that a few higher-end integrateds offer functionality that lets me accomplish the same goal that the two-amp-switching solution was intended to. There are other ways to automatically switch signal paths without having two power amplifiers physically connected to the same speakers.
So even though I wound up deciding that what I wanted to do was not the best solution for my specific set-up, I'm far from dead in the water. And the opportunity to discuss this at length with so many knowlegable peers here was a valuable part of my investigation. Thanks, everybody!
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I recently found myself in the same situation as the OP, wanting to A/B compare 2 integrated amps with one speaker. My solution allows me to switch 2 amps remotely between 2 sets of speakers; however, only using 1 set of speakers right now. I added 4-2 source selector switch as well, but not remote controlled; Using it as 4-1 with RCA hard y-splitters to amps.. Wanted all cables to be on the same footing for a fair comparison, so purchased all new 'journeymen' quality cables from WBT.
Speaker Switch is:
Douk Audio VU3 Dual Analog VU Meter, 2-Way Amplifier/Speaker Switch
Source switch is:
Audio Switcher
I can now switch amps from listening position. I can also switch between 2 CD players and 2 phono amps, but not remotely. Works well, binding posts on amp/speaker switch are decent quality (all this stuff is made in China so...) as are RCA connectors on source switch. PM me if you'd like to a pic of setup.
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@eagledriver_22
Yes easy peasy Goes without saying, make sure amps are turned off when switching cables
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@jrwaudio +1
Same with me. Different amps, different loudspeaker cables. Swap takes short of a minute.
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I have two stereo systems in a credenza Tube amp and SS amp Each amp has it's own set of speaker cables with locking banana connectors Depending on what I want to listen to with what amp, it just takes a few minutes to swap the speaker cables to the speakers
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I take the cables out of one amp and put them into another. Pretty cheap and effective!
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deep+333: Your last comment is right on the money. Unfortunately, I don't have that option. I can only buy without actually hearing beforehand, not even a showroom demo.
FWIW, I'm learning that the Ayre EX-8 integrated may make all these questions moot. So I'm seriously considering going that route. That box has some very unique functionality. And what's really amazing is that this 100/170 wpc integrated, weighing only 24 pounds, is NOT Class D!
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@cundare2 , I just swapped the Luxman AS-55 in/out of my big rig a few times. (Relevant equipment: Lux M900u --> AQ Thunderbird --> TAD), I can't hear degradation/anything different...Typically (for the most part), i can hear a gnat's fart in this room. Only trying switches in your rig can reveal if it's good for you or not...(what some other forum dude is saying doesn't matter)...
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I use the Luxman AS-55. Works and sounds great.
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boomerbillone: Yes, I used to be a hobbyinst, building, updating, & restoring tube gear & electrostatic speakers. But I'm afraid that I"m too old for that now. The last time I held a soldering iron, my hands were simply too shaky to work safely.
"Surrender the things of youth"
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Hello cundare2! Are you a DIYer? It is easy to make a switch box using a heavy duty, 4 pole double throw (4PDT) 12 volt relay. Does one of your amps have a mini phone plug output for turning on other equipment? If so, it's a simple thing. Get the heaviest duty, continuous duty, relay you can find, capable of switching at least 10 amp loads. Perhaps something with "mercury wetted" contacts for 30 amps or so. You will be adding connectors for both amps and the speakers, so some degradation in the signal quality is likely. The heavier current the relay is rated at (contact wise) the less likely it will hurt the signal. You need to find barrier strips or contacts not made of ferrous metals. Brass, copper, bronze is better; ditto for the internal wire. The movable (switching) contacts are connected to the speakers. The non moving terminals are connected to each of the amps. Whichever amp has the "turn on" outlet powers the coil of the relay. So there are 14 terminals on the relay to connect: four for each amp and four for the speakers and two for the coil. Use the Normally Open (N.O.) contacts for the amp with the mini phone plug output. The Normally Closed terminals go to the other amp. When the Amp with the mini phone plug output (switching other equipment) is on, the relay will close the normally open contacts and connect that amp to the speakers. When that amp is off (not on standby) the other amp is connected to the speakers thru the Normally Closed contacts. If you need a circuit diagram, contact me. The big deal is to use non-ferrous connectors. Any kind will do: banana plugs, spade lugs and barrier strips, etc. Happy listening!
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Or the cheap route.. get some BioWare cables from Blue Jeans with one end to the speakers and splitting the signal at the amps. It called quite ad star or something similar
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Build your own box.
Use a real pretty copper knife switch on top of the box such that one half is spkr A and the opposite side is speaker B. "And never the twain shall meet"!
Regards,
barts
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Bryston made speaker selectors too. I see them online, not sure if they have current products.
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@johnread57 +1
I do use 2 pairs of separate speaker cables, every pair is constantly connected to the amps. In this case, I only have to swap cables at the speakers. With bananas, it is a no brainer. I do this about 2-3 times a week. If the speaker terminals are of good quality and the switching is done carefully, no problems. It works for me.
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I know this doesn’t fit but it is electrically isolated, I get up and swap the speaker cables. Batch your listening … so you’re not comparing tracks but say albums or sources.
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The deeper I get into this, the more it seems as though it’s not a good idea. While some people are giving me some very good suggestions, just as many are telling me (here & elsewhere) that a switch box is to be avoided at all costs.
So maybe it’s not time for Plan B afer all.
I dunno, I’m not sure why this would be such a formidable engineering feat. How does the functionality I’m looking differ from that built into any integrated that includes a discrete headphone amp?
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deep+333: I see that Luxman also made what appears to be a stripped-down version with remote (the AS-50R) that is selling "new" for $300-350.
@cundare2 I ignored the AS-50R and the Van Alstine as they are powered devices/requires a power supply (an unnecessary complication). The AS-55 does not. I only use it in a "relatively affordable" rig. I don’t use it in my cost no object rig (there is no use case in that room).
I am unable to recall the name of a decent device i had over 15 years ago now from some obscure Eastern European manufacturer. It was around a 1000 bucks and was ok, while it lasted. There are minimal decent options out there actually...If the AS-55 didn’t work out for you, just sell it. At the least, it’s a nice looking piece and some Luxman fanboy around here will buy it (you will get your money back).
You could always get another pair of speakers, i.e. one separate pair for each amp for added variety of sound signatures and forget about switches. One can never have enough speakers.
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Is there any way to switch a single set of speakers between two different amplifiers without compromising sonics? Switching would be done often, so the mechanism would have to be easy -- preferably with a remote or the twist of a dial or even done automatically by sensing input signals, and definitely not involving moving cables.
Russound AB-3.2 Automatic Speaker Selector
NILES AUTOMATED SPEAKER LEVEL ABS-1 SWITCHING SYSTEM
If your solid-state system has 12V trigger output, check out the Niles Audio SPK-1 Speaker-Level A-B Switcher.
Most tube amps don't like to run power on without a speaker connected as this could damage their output transformer, the solution is to add a 100-150 ohm 10 watt resistor to their output terminals.
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I'm not familiar with the Luxman, but many of these switchers cannot be used with balanced amplifiers because the switch uses a common ground. You'll want to check on that if you're using balanced amps.
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deep+333: I see that Luxman also made what appears to be a stripped-down version with remote (the AS-50R) that is selling "new" for $300-350.
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gpgr4blu: That’s an interesting suggestion. But I think that there would be interaction between the output stages (and the cables) in most cases, even if one amp was powered down.
I see Beresford also made a similar device. I guess they’re out there, but I’m not so sure that inserting any but the most exceptionally designed box at this point in the signal path would be a good idea.
Still, the Luxman is worth a try if no better options emerge. The Japan distributor seems to no longer be active, but there are used boxes on eBay, as was mentioned earlier, in the $500 range. Which is pretty close to free, by today's audiophile standards.
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How about 2 sets of speaker cables from 2 separate amps-- one banana, one spades that are connected simultaneously to the same set of speakers. If one amp is engaged in the on position and the other is off, I'll leave it to the electrical experts to call it.
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I see that Adcom & Van Alstine also made switching boxes -- all discontinued now, of course! -- but it's possible that some of them switch speakers, not amps.
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deep+333: Well, that sounds like an option. I saw a lot of $50-150 switching boxes on Amazon, etc., but obviously that's not what I was looking for. I'll take a look at the Luxman and if I buy one and it does degrade the sound, $500 isn't the end of the world. Thanks!
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Is there any way to switch a single set of speakers between two different amplifiers without compromising sonics? Switching would be done often, so the mechanism would have to be easy -- preferably with a remote or the twist of a dial or even done automatically by sensing input signals, and definitely not involving moving cables.
Luxman AS-55 speaker selector switch box
~500 bucks w/shipping, if you buy it directly from a Japan based ebay seller
~1000 bucks if you buy it from a North American jackass (500 bucks is the real price).
It is the only selector i have not been able to detect much sonic degradation thus far. The other alternative is to keep plugging/unplugging speaker cables eternally and wear out the terminals/connectors etc.
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