Internal DAC quality vs external DAC's

You’d be better off looking a streamer with a built in DAC rather than an amp.

However best of all is separates, you're just denying the inevitable.

I have the STR. It's awesome in  every way.

You do not want anything all in one chassis...dacs are susceptible to noise and vibration, and can interfere with the amp/preamp signal (integrated amp) causing noise. I like to keep my integrated amps all analog. Best to keep it external, plus dacs are constantly changing etc and getting better (I guess). Can’t do much wrong with the v90 dac/Musical Fidelity for only $299....best 300 I ever spent on digital stuff.

You can just upgrade an internal DAC

MHDT RtR Tube Dac sweet sound

I would recommend keeping the digital components separate from the amplification.  

Internal for streamer "starters" or dCs. I see no reason for placing a DAC in an amp except for a sale to a "consolidator." Then one has increased complications for upgrade itis.

So without sounding like jerk, would someone please explain to me why a DAC should not be a part of an integrated box ?

I've read this multiple times but never with clarification as to why.

It's hard for me to believe that this is somehow an issue with the 4 products I've listed in my original post. 

@rockophile221 DACs have a relatively short life of 5 years or less, amps 10 years or more, streamers somewhere in-between.

Separate boxes are best to easily upgrade and elimination of RF and EMI interference.

There are major costs associated with separates, cable costs can be huge because you need additional interconnect, digital and power cables as appropriate for each individual component.

You pays your money and takes your choice.

the real, not so fun answer is it all depends

one box integrated units can be very good, but of course lack the flexibility to decouple the piece-parts - at the same time, they can be smart buys - for example an older gen hegel h160 has an older streamer/dac built in, but the preamp/amp section is still world class - so at $1700-1800 used now, the h160 will be a good buy even if you treat the dac as a throw-away...

streamer/dac combos have similar issues... dacs are maturing fast, lots of trickle down happening, oodles of connectivity options... streaming front end sand streamer protocols and connectivity formats may still have more room for development/format change over time (though many would argue that is rapidly stabilizing as well)

so it depends on the user, their desire for a la carte flexibility to change (at a real cost, as mentioned earlier), versus buy a good modern integrated unit, use a good music source - e.g. tidal or qobuz, and be ’one and done’, just enjoy the music with a minimum of clutter (and complexity and cabling and power supplies)...

There's no good reason a DAC can't be part of an integrated box.

Technically speaking, you can get superb measured performance from separates that beats any of the integrated boxes you listed for around the same price (e.g. Topping D90SE + LA90, $1800). The only issue with the Topping amp is its relatively low output power - 90 W @ 1% THD into 4 ohms. You didn't mention what speakers you were going to use, so it may not provide enough juice at the volume you want to listen to.

Do you already have a streamer? The Hegel seems to be the only one where you can stream from your phone using UPnP. That would really simplify things, if it's the direction you intend to go. Currently, I use a RPi 3 B+ with moOde for streaming duty.

Hope this helps.

lordmelton "DACs have a relatively short life of 5 years or less, amps 10 years or more, streamers somewhere in-between."

This statement is mistaken, erroneous and false a properly designed and constructed DAC can easily last many, many years as has been demonstrated by some of the most highly regarded manufacturers of such products there is simply no reason, justification, or logic to claim or assert otherwise. 

I like the one and done concept !!!

It's why I'm looking at the NAD M10 V2, it's an all in one streamer that can be controlled via phone/tablet.

The crazy part to all this is, each devise I've listed all have something I want. None with all the features I'd like, go figure.

The crazy part to all this is, each devise I've listed all have something I want. None with all the features I'd like, go figure.

I think that's the main challenge right now. Hopefully you find something that fits your needs.

Just remembered that I had a good experience with the Naim Uniti Atom this past weekend (though it was driving headphones from the speaker taps). I could find it on the network using BubbleUPnP as a renderer from my Android phone easily and I streamed Qobuz through it without a hitch.

Check out the Parasound Hint

Yes, another all in one with a DAC !!!

Could you please give a/some comparison to it's internal DAC...... 

My experience with a Rotel RA1570 integrated amplifier has been that I had to go to DAC's in the price range of the Denefrips Ares II or Schiit BiFrost to get better sound than the internal DAC.   I tried several $400 DACs and none of them sounded better than the Rotel's DAC using either USB or COAX interfaces.  It could be different with other integrated amplifiers.

It is important to note that better DAC's can have superior USB interfaces, filters, linear power supplies, and other features that integrated amplifiers don't have.  Those features can make a difference. 

I hope that this helps.

I haven't hear a pre amp/DAC combination (unless you regard AVRs in that category.  I am sure that there are some combo players that sound excellent.  However as others have noted DAC technology changes rapidly; amplifier tech not so much.  Personally i would want them to be seperate to be able to take advantages of these changes.