Update--I have auditioned the Simply Italy, an Elekit 8600S, the Quicksilver EL84 integrated, and an Audio Note OTO. Yes, it's been a very busy couple of days. Paired them with my friend's Super Tablette, his Focal 906 Arias, and his Closer Acoustics OGY bookshelf loudspeakers.
Since I already have a resolving slightly on the warm side balanced system (Audio Research), I wanted a lower powered amp with "liquid chocolate" sound characteristics like an SET, EL84, that wouldn't break the bank, for a 120 sq ft room. So far, I like the Simply Italy. It is a push/pull amp using EL 34s and 12AU7s. Compared to my ARC-based system, the sound characteristics of the Simply Italy are fluid, at a tad sweet, while still having a dynamic signature characteristic of push/pull tube-based amps.Cost-wise, it's not going to break the bank and irritate my budget conscious sweetie. WAF is real!
As far as speaker choice-Based on what I heard, am reading both here (thanks!) and other internet sites, I'm excited by exploring full range driver speakers. At this time, of the speakers I auditioned the OGY is the one that excites me. It's a full-range driver, small footprint, bookshelf speaker, that is 8 Ohms, 91 db efficiency. It is also compatible with lower watt amps. On a purely an emotional level the OGY sounded natural, detailed sound with a surprisingly large 3D soundstage for its size.
What are other full-range drivers worth auditioning, in the $2K price range
Thanks again!
David
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+1 for Riparian.
I too am a Triode Lab owner and would highly recommend.
I use are the SET 45 ffx Monoblocks which sound fantastic and have driven numerous speakers well, including Spatial Audio X5s, Pearl Acoustics Sibelius, and Joseph Crowe BLH 2095s.
good luck!
glen
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If you are auditioning AudioNote amps, check out the Oto and Soro; they are a bit more than the Cobra but are much better. In the Cobra’s price bracket, the Synthesis Audio integrated is much better. I heard them side by side in a direct comparison playind Audio Note AN-K, Harbeth 30.2 and ProAc Tablettes. The higher up Synthesis amplifiers, like the A40 or A!00 models are better still and can anchor a truly great system.
Triangle speakers do have a slightly bright top end, but with good tube amps, they should not be harsh. J.M. Reynaud speakers are a bit warmer and also good. I would add ProAc to the list of speakers to audition too. For something different, see if you can audition the open baffle speakers from Pure Audio Project (maybe st a show, I think they sell direct). Their Trio 15 models sell for around $7500 and are shockingly good for the money.
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Here’s the latest-I’m going to audition a Unison Simply Italy Integrated (It puts out 12 W using EL34’s and 12AU7’s) and Focal Aria 906’s (90db sensitivity/8 ohms). I’m starting at the upper middle/lower high end of my pricepoint for the room layout and situation. We shall see.....
I’m also going to audition DaCapo Ref 3A, Nola Boxer, Decware Zun Tube Tots, and Zu DWX. I have heard Triangle speakers, and for me, they do a lot of things well, but the high frequencies are harsh sounding due to tinnitus.
If I think I can do better than the Simply Italy, I’ll audition the Audio Note Cobra and Quicksilver EL84 integrated.
Stay tuned (or not).
David
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JM Reynaud speakers are wonderful. I enjoyed many hours listening to a pair of Offrande Model 1s. But high efficiency, suitable for low watt tube amps they ain't.
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Another great French speaker brand is J.M. Reynaud. Much more laid back than the Triangle's I've tried.
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My $1500 KLH Model 3's are just as much fun to listen to as my Borresen X-3's @ 11K......Some say they are more musical than the Model 5's. I Love Them.
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Not knowing your budget, you may want to take a look at Viva audio.
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I generally agree with Dekay's suggestions above. I really like the Elekit amps I've heard, but again, I think that they are not integrated amps. With tube amps, the additional gain from a separate line stage is often not needed, so, if you have just one source, you can probably just plug it into the back of the Elekit and treat it as if it were an integrated amp. A separate switching box might be all you need to treat the Elekit amp as an integrated amp. You should contact Victor Kung and VKmusic (the North American distributor located in Vancouver Canada); he is very helpful and honest about whether the amp will or will not work in particular setups.
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@auroravengeance thanks. I have been looking at HiFi brands from France for some time. There are a few others Kelinac, Jewel Sound, ASA, Davis Acoustics, Atohm, Apertura Audio, Melin Audio, Micromega, Audiofolia, Ocellia, Livehorn (very unusual speakers), Esprit Audio and Laboiteconcept. Before you wonder, yes I do spend time researching and cataloguing HiFi companies from different countries- Denmark, Poland. France etc 😀
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Your room is approx. the size of our spare bedroom (11 x 14 x 8).
I have been able to successfully use flea and fly watt amps in that room, due to the volume, with a variety of speakers (some not associated with 3-8 watt amps).
If your interest is SET then keep things simple with a directly heated single ended triode design (DH/SET) most likely using 45, 2A3 or 300B tubes (approx. 2/3.5/8 watts).
There are other tube designs that also sound really good, but there is something special about DH/SET done decently that you have to hear to believe.
I would start with something like the Elekit and a pair of Audio Note AX2 stand mount speakers (now back in production I think) to start with if you can give up bass for awhile (add a sub, like one of the little Gallo's, later if you feel the need).
However, it’s not been clear to me if the Elekit amps are available with USA voltage power transformers (most I see are 100V).
I use good old production tubes in my inexpensive Bottlehead 2A3 amps (the tubes easily sell for more that the amps originally did), but I can still pick up a full set of NOS 2A3/12AT7’s for <$500 (I paid $60 for a similar set 20+ years ago;-).
As far as 300B’s go there seem to be quite a few well reviewed versions currently available and you do not have to pop for expensive WE’s or EL’s unless you want to.
WE’s 70’s production 300B’s were my 3rd favorite in my old Audion Silver Night amp as I much preferred Svetlana and then an inexpensive Chinese 300B to them (just a warning as to "What’s the Best" thinking).
I’ve grown accustomed to 2A3, but 300B is more power and a lot of Technicolor fun.
DeKay
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Audio Note speakers are ideally located near the corners of the room; if not in the corners, at least close to the back wall. In a room of this size, and the kind of music you favor, you may actually have options to use speakers that are not quite as efficient, which greatly increases your options, particularly if you don’t insist on a SET. That said, a SET amp may still be a good option if you are willing to accept that they will not be at their best at head banging levels. To me, the great attributes of such amps are best heard with relatively high efficiency speakers and I don’t know of many that I like that are not somewhat pricey. Do you have any idea of how much you are willing to spend and will you consider used speakers?
I don’t agree that Harbeths are out if you go with modest powered tube amps that are not SETs. I particularly like the Harbeth 30.2 with tube amps of at least 20 watts. You can find reasonably priced EL84 amps that sound very good that are reasonably priced.
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Wow! Thanks for the helpful responses. There is quite A LOT to "digest." Yogiboy and br3098, you are right about the Harbeths.
dekay-the room is 12" x 10.5", with 8.5" ceilings. It has a row of windows on 10.5" wall, with an entry door galley closets leading to a bathroom on the other wall. Because of room design the speakers will be placed on a 12" wall. Figuring with speakers away from the wall listening will be a nearfield experience.
dxbwineguy and auroravengeance-I appreciate your recommendations. Somewhere I read someone describing low powered amps and they used the phrase "liquid chocolate sound" which really resonated. Sometime in the past I read about the EL-84 Quicksilver integrated.
soix-we have discussed preamps and DAC’s in the past. I am going to add the De Capos to my list.
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For an office system (small room), if you play your system at modest levels, you can go with a SET amp with a higher efficiency speaker. But, there really is no reason to only consider SET amps; they are not inherently superior to pushpull or output transformerless amps. I own a pair of Audio Note SET amps which sound great, but my pushpull amp sounds even better and did not cost nearly as much.
But, if you are determined to go SET, the Elekit is a VERY good bargain, particularly if you build it yourself. I heard that amp in its basic configuration and it is nice sounding. While it has a volume control, I think it is not an integrated amp because it does not have multiple inputs and an input selector knob.
Audio Note speakers will work with a low-powered SET. They sell such amps to work with their speakers. My local dealer runs AN-Es and AN-Js with a 6 watt Kageki and gets great sound out of that combination. Finding the right speakers for lower-powered amps is a challenge. The best choices are never bargain speakers. I really like Charney Audio speakers and think they are very reasonably priced for their performance, but, that does not mean they are cheap. The same goes with Volti speakers. Some classic line Klipsch speakers, like the Cornwalls might work. For a little more than $3,000 a pair, I was impressed with the Tekton Double Impacts and the Rethm Bhaava speakers.
If you expand your amp search a bit to non-SET amps, I think you should search out the Synthesis Audio line of pushpull amps. These are fantastic for the money.
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I would second the Audio Note recommendations.
For an integrated amp, one should also consider Triode Lab, the 2A3 EVO recently reviewed in Stereophile. Triode Lab makes excellent SET amps and SET integrated amps. Sure, I am biased because I am a happy Triode Lab customer.
For bookshelf speakers (preferably stand-mount), there aren't many 92 db sensitive and above. The NOLA Boxer as stand-mount speaker for SET amps is reasonably efficient, reasonably priced, and has great sound.
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@dxbwineguy
The three main French speaker brands - Triangle, Cabasse, and Focal.
There are also Elipson and Waterfall.
The replica Ongaku looks sick. I am looking to upgrade to a really nice SET amp for my main setup and that definitely pique my interest.
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Second the Reference 3As. A friend has a pair and loves them, and he's very fussy. He has several amps but the 3A's work well with his Dennis Had single-ended KT66 amplifer.
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@dxbwineguy I agree the Cobra is better than a lot of SET amps. It is a very good value proposition. I don't think there is any other DAC+Integrated combo at that price point that even remotely equals it.
But as a pure integrated, a couple of non-SET options that I do think warrant serious considerations at that price point are Leben CS600X and Lab12 Integre4 MKII.
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The new WE91E can drive more difficult speakers and reasonably powerful at 20W. So if budget is no issue, go get it.
The majority of other SET amps are more modest in power. Your choice of stand-mounters will be limited if you insist on SET amps.
I have a Cobra for my 2nd setup at my workplace. It is excellent if you want to keep your setup simple and save on cabling.
Our musical taste is not dissimilar, I highly recommend you consider the Frenchs, I think no other brands do mid like them.
The newer Triangle Duetto 40th is reasonably priced. I enjoyed auditioning them and they pair well with most amps.
Focal Sopra No 1 is slightly more expensive and has a more refined presentation, but I do think the Triangle is a more fun listen. The Triangle has more drive, essential for classical listening.
Cabasse Baltic, the ones I pair with my Cobra, is incredible and pretty much a swiss army knife speaker, but need to integrate a sub.
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@chayro is correct. The Cobra is a PP but honestly it is better than most SE amps. Very tight. I have another Audio Note, that’s single ended and also level 2- P2SE. Cobra is better.
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The Audio Note OTO SE with the AN-K speakers work well. The Cobra is a nice amp, but it isn’t single ended. FYI- the OTO also comes in push pull, so if you insist on single ended, be sure it’s the SE version.
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I'm a toob noob, but will say that you can get what you are looking for with single ended pentode integrateds and stand mounts for under 10K with some searching and patience.
I got my Audio Note AN-K speakers and OTO SE integrated for $8k used. It took awhile, but I'm enjoying the sonic experience now. All that you said you wanted above is what I'm hearing.
Keep your eyes open and good luck.
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The Reference 3a De Capo Be monitors are worth a look given what you’re looking for. Best of luck.
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For starters what are the dimensions of the new room?
I have been using 300B and 2A3 DH/SET amps for the past 22 years and I disagree with the opinions of many, many, many who have posted about them in the past (including a few in this thread).
This said, you have to have a plan and that starts with the size of the listening room and the SPL's desired.
DeKay
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A 300B SET does not have enough power for the vast majority of speakers.Why would you want to severely limit your choice of speakers ?
If you are determined to use a SET then you would be much better off considering a 6C33C,211,811 or 845 based one.
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@carlsbad2 :where the SS amps you tried SINGLE ENDED pure CLASS A?
If they were not your "balanced argument"is as far from balanced as yin is to yang...
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING a SET tube amplifier offers that a Single Ended, Class A SS amplifier does'nt & in MOST CASES the bass on the Class A SS amp is far superior to a 300B SET amp which are known to have soft bass!
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I'll balance the argument. SET is the only way to go. I have tried a few SS amps since going tube and always disapointed. And push pull is a compromise that cannot hold a candle to SET. It is accepted because people are married to their low sensitivity speakers.
that said, you aren't looking at high end SETs so you aren't getting the highest quality possible sound. And there aren't many good options in bookshelf speakers and high sensitivity. I look for 94db or higher but you can probably get buy at 92 if your amp has high current. Look for a used decware. I have an SE84UFO that is rated about 2 wpc and will fill my room using 95 db speakers. It is my back up. I am currently using a 4 wpc bespoke custom amp with 98 dB speakers. Really overkill on power.
But if you're looking in this price range, you won't find an SS amp that will hold a candle to a simple SET. Try to find one that is point to point wired, not circuit board. If you can find an Aric or a Sachs that works for you jump on it.
Jerry
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FORGET the low powered SET tube amp!!!
First off,RETUBING COST of 300B tubes every few thousand hours is OUTRAGEOUSLY EXPENSIVE....You could go Single Ended EL34 or KT88 but still limited power available or one of the new Single Ended KT150/170 amps available but you’ll still have to retube every few thousand hours.
If you want it all,go with a PURE CLASS A Solid State amp from Pass Labs,Sugden or Luxman!!!
Add a pair of smallish stand mounted monitors from Spendor,Harbeth,Reference 3A,Dynaudio or Sonus Faber & bliss out!
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I agree with @yogiboy, Harbeth's wouldn't be on my list for a low wattage tube amp. Another story if you were considering a 35wpc+ PP amp.
The Audio Notes are great speakers but they are not for everyone. I love them but some guys feel that they sound "dark."
You haven't described your room so it's hard to recommend. IMO, set amps and good horn speakers enjoy a magical symmetry. Certainly there is a whole line of new and vintage Klipsch Heritage, starting with the Heresy and on up. I'm partial to vintage JBL monitors featuring CD horns, but that's me.
Another way to go would be "full range" single driver speakers. I've owned Omegas and Coherent Audio from Canada. Both can sound wonderful and can be mated to subwoofers if you feel that you needed more low end punch.
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Analog Ethos
James Burgess
not integrated but they have volume knobs
speakers: Klipsch RP600
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Why are you looking at Harbeth? They are not high high efficiency speakers!!
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