@asctim ”…My experience has been that I can get various very inexpensive interconnects that all sound indistinguishable.”
Yeah… of course, very inexpensive interconnects don’t make a difference or make a negative difference. No effort has been put into design, material choice, cost of materials… just like you can’t expect high quality sound out of a $19 CD Player.
There is little point in reviewing inexpensive interconnects because they typically sound the same as the freebies you get with inexpensive components. Just to make sure I was calibrated to the market I have tried, Monster, Blue Jeans, Belkin… and a few others… completely worthless.
You need to audition some more than , Cardas, WireWorld, Transparent, and DHLabs. This will give you some perspective.
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@asctim ...I don’t see much review of cheaper cables. You’d think there’d actually be a lot more variation between inexpensive cables, resulting in a lot of very interesting perceptions to report on,...
People don’t report much because there’s not a lot to talk about. I’ve tried a handful of various low cost cables over the years. I was able to confirm there were no giant killers. You essentially get what you pay for - unless you find great second-hand cables that someone is giving away at a very low price just to pass them along.
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I used to use all WireWorld interconnects, but I found it difficult to fit them all into the spaghetti junction behind my equipment (six sources, phono stage, pre-amp, power amps, headphone amp). So I replaced them with skinny cheap interconnects. No difference to my ear. The only place where it does make a difference is on longer runs (pre-amp > monoblocks which sit behind the speakers) where cheapo interconnects pick up hum as they are not shielded.
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I’m reminded of Tolstoy’s beginning of Anna Karenina " All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."
We could rephrase this "All bad sounding interconnects are alike; each good sounding interconnect is good sounding in its own way."
Good sounding interconnects and unhappy families are both more interesting to write about.
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@bolong
Your uninformed, unsubstantiated opinions are of no value to those of that know better and to those that come here to learn. Please try to refrain.
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Refrain from what? I thought I was being amusing. So called "snake oil" does have some therapeutic properties however minimal, Perhaps we use that word recklessly and impertinently when we bandy it about in audio land.
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My 2 cents worth.
1980's I read brochures from what I could get at stereo stores. Monster cable, interlink 250 $50.00 Straight wire. I settled on these 2 because of cost. Then circa 2018. I moved to Kimber Kable heroes and Cardas cables Iridium and crosslinks. ~ 200.00. The difference was immediately apparent. Clarity,imaging I still have the older cables and I often use them as a filler until new orders arrive. I'm a believer.
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Hello saulh! Take a magnet and check the plugs for ferrous metal. Plating won't help. If anything sticks, it's not what you want. Hoppy Listening!
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I went through a variety of xlr interconnects from the likes of Audioquest, Moon Audio and others. They were okay, but it wasn't until I got some AntiCables gold/ silver alloy that I found what really worked for me and my system and at a price I could afford.
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I have been more loyal to a wire type used for the Signal Path, more so than a Cable construction, even though pure copper connectors used on both cable ends and chassis mounted connections is today seen as a mandatory requirement.
I will state with conviction, swapping a Copper Wire to a Silver Wire, will usually create a sonic that is undeniably different. Depending on the wire type, the differences can be worlds apart, I have experienced Silver Wire, that had to be removed with immediacy, as it was such an unattractive sonic in the system it was used, on the same note I used a Silver Cable in favour of Copper for multiple years, until I discovered PC Tripe C Wire.
I have found experiencing the same wire used in a cable, where a cable is produced at differing lengths, between 0.5mtr - 5mtr. When undergoing a A/B comparison, where the 5mtr cable works along with a device placed in the system, that can use the shortest cable, there are subtle differences to the sonic, that are able to be detected between these cable lengths. Usually a frequency can be controlled in how the projection is being perceived, using this method. No need trying anything like this if a 5mtr Cable is not required within the system.
One of the biggest changes to a sonic outside of changing a wire type, was when what had become a very untidy mess behind the system was given a period of my time to have the cables organised, separated and avoid crossing over where possible, the organised Cables brought a sonic that was immediately noticeable for being more attractive.
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I used to think snake oil was pricy interconnects until I saw the light that snake oil is just oil made from snakes.
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I believe it is taking on the name of the Brand that is is the factor that enables a increase in the asking price by the vendor, I don't see the mimicking of the products aesthetic only, being a reason that would encourage a buyer to increase their cost to acquire the item.
Nordost Brand is commonly seen at a inflated price, does the Clones of Nordost vs the Cloned Cardas carry much cost difference to produce?
The Nordost Clone is typically seen with a uncreased asking price over many other Cloned Branded Cables. Which is most likely a reflection of the non-fake Nordost retail price.
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There was a couple threads on the fake Nordost offered on Aliexpress. I had a real set of Nordost Odin 2 in my system for several weeks… so I know what they sound like. So I bought a set of Nordost Odin2 from AliExpress. I can assure you, they did not sound anything like the real Nordost Odin 2.
So, then comes the question… do they sound better than Blue Jeans or some low level interconnect. Honestly, I have better things to do. But, to me buying fake interconnects should not be one’s default. I would rather buy a low end Cardas… and know what I am getting, versus a fake Cardas… which is most likely to be inferior… with a small possibility of it sounding better. I would really rather live in a world where people get paid for the effort and quality of materials put into their products.
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Cables- a quagmire separating the wheat from the chaff.
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Cables- a quagmire separating the wheat from the chaff.
I shall not ask if you refer to the cables or the listeners! Or, if I were to take inspiration from the grammar police lately active here, I'd point out the inefficiency of using a quagmire for winnowing......😉
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Here's my take on cables and power cords. They work. They make a difference. There. Okay, I have more to say. It's frustrating sorting through cables and power cords- more than frustrating. Unlike amps, speakers, phono cartridges and DACs cables do not have a lot of specs to look at. Secondly, it's impossible to look under the hood. I can lift the lid on an amp and ewe and aww at its innards but the best I can do with a cable is turn and tug a little on the ends to see how tight the shrink tubing fits. Maybe I can look at the plating on the connectors and get a feel of their quality. Setting aside the sound differences for the moment it is gut wrenching spending a lot of money on cables. And the prices have gone past the cost of a decent amp and are approaching the price of a basic car, no less. We don't know how much pure copper, silver and gold are really in these things. Then, someone on Youtube will cut an "audiophile" cable apart and reveal that it is more filler than wire and the workmanship might even be suspect. No wonder even the best cables are difficult to resale for any reasonable amount relative to the original MSRP.
In the late 1980s I started hanging out with the wrong crowd- audiophiles. I got into the cable game. Back then the big deal was speaker cables mostly and then interconnects. I watched a buddy put some serious money into MIT cables around 1990. But they worked. I started with Monster Cable, then Kimber Kable, then AQ, Nordost and eventually worked my way up to some pricey MIT cables. Today, I am primarily using Purist Audio Design cables- the upper end of their lines. I try not to think about what I have put into cables and power cords chasing after better and better sound. Secondly, the PAD cables are as plain looking as it gets. No fancy blue or red anodized collars, no pretty braiding of smaller wires into a single big wire and no pretty red or blue anodized connectors. Hard to impress with these cables by looks, oh but the sound...
The other trick about cables is the sound. Say you have a pair of speaker cables and/or interconnects and you try out a new set of cables in your system. If the tonal balance is a bit brighter, then at first you might interpret that as better clarity and more lively sound. Listen a few days and you start to have fatigue. Put the old cables back in and now the system sounds darker at first but the fatigue is gone. What to do then? Try something else maybe. And so the frustration starts.
After going round and round and encountering some real junk cables over the years, I have learned to stick to the well known brands. If I have to trust what is inside these cables then I stick to the brands with a reputation and a pedigree. I also try them and listen to them over weeks to be sure that is what I want. I haven't been able to send a higher end PAD cable back yet.
What I listen for: 1: Tonal balance. Not bright or fatiguing but not dark either. Not just better speaker cables but the better interconnects make the bass more crisp and clear- more punch. Highs are oh so sweet- not irritating or grating ever.
2. Soundstage and background. This one is easy to differentiate. The better cables drop the noise floor. Sounds come out of nowhere. The soundstage is wide, deep and tall. Better cables improve on this. The better MIT cables that I started using in the early 2000's showed me this. Imaging was startlingly focused. It freaked some people out. My grandmother was convinced I had a speaker hiding in the fireplace. From MIT to PAD I found they did everything better.
3. Noise floor and detail. Upgrading power cords, unfortunately improves the sound too. They take more noise out of the system. When I got the better PAD power cords I immediately could tell the noise floor had dropped even more. I thought the system was already quiet but it got even quieter. A PAD digital power cord on my DAC improved the highs. Thought they were already good but they got better, more natural. And then with all this comes more detail. Detail is a two edge sword. It is exciting to hear some things in the music that you have never heard before but it can also be distracting and take away from the music. When I started hearing more detail I was distracted to the point that I wished I could undo it. But eventually I learned to tune most of it out. Still, it is difficult sometimes to listen to my system in complete darkness. I sounds and feels like people are moving around in the room. Be prepared for consequences to a clear, detailed system. One blues singer has a wheeze when he breathes. Love the song but that quiet wheeze is a little distracting still.
I think the top cable makers know their art pretty well. They know how to create product lines that give a little more of everything for more money. I don't know how they do it. It's like a car model with a base 4 cylinder but for a little more you can have a 6 cylinder and the top of the line is a V8. More performance for more money.
And in the end it still depends on the parts in your particular system, your room and your hearing- not to mention your budget.
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There ARE some parameters to look for or measure, like resistance, inductance, and capacitance. The latter also affect “characteristic impedance”, which is defined as the square root of inductance divided by capacitance. This parameter is independent of length. Years ago, Atmasphere suggested I use speaker cables with a low characteristic impedance with my Atma OTL amplifiers, and I subsequently found that he was/is correct; not only do cables with low CI sound best with my amps but also cables with high CI sound really awful, e.g., Nordost. So I would never buy expensive cables, usually make my own, but I have found that low CI is a worthy goal also with ICs. I happen to prefer solid core silver wires, as well.
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There ARE some parameters to look for or measure, like resistance, inductance, and capacitance. The latter also affect “characteristic impedance”, which is defined as the square root of inductance divided by capacitance. This parameter is independent of length. Years ago, Atmasphere suggested I use speaker cables with a low characteristic impedance with my Atma OTL amplifiers, and I subsequently found that he was/is correct; not only do cables with low CI sound best with my amps but also cables with high CI sound really awful, e.g., Nordost. So I would never buy expensive cables, usually make my own, but I have found that low CI is a worthy goal also with ICs. I happen to prefer solid core silver wires, as well.
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That's the problem with many people in general and audiophiles in particular - they make too many assumptions instead of experiencing things.
Another problem with some audiophiles is that their hearing is not really good, so they simply can't hear the difference.
Cables can make big or subtle difference but they always do make a difference.
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My son accompanied me to Axpona Tampa last year. He was 32 then and I compared what I was hearing in the various rooms with the impressions of his young ears. There were a few times where I did not detect subtle differences that he could hear but overall I was pleased that my hearing was still pretty good.
My son visited last week and I got a chance for him to hear my streaming setup and DAC with different sources. I played CDs, FLAC files and streamed 44.1/16 and hi res. His conclusions all matched mine. I did not let him know what source I was using.
The thing about cables which is true for audio in general is that the very expensive ones are on another level. I know people don’t want to hear that. You still have to sort the pseudo high end from the real deal and I think cables are the hardest component of all just because looks do not reveal how they will sound- in general. I started out with basic receivers and such in the 70s and stepped up to hifi in the late 80s. Started doing a lot of DYI upgrades to my speakers and amps. Then in the 2000s I stepped into the higher end hifi gear. As satisfying as DYI projects are, the expensive stuff- the good stuff has no equal.
What I’m trying to say is that sometimes we are merely making lateral moves when changing a component or a cable and then experience disappointment and frustration when the gain is nil. And that leads many to dismiss the hobby as futile and a waste of money. It is difficult to do these days but hearing an outstanding audio system can be inspirational. I can’t say that I would have been better off to have never heard some outstanding stereos over the years, Audio has been a bug in me since my college days.
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