I like my Peachtree Nova300 more than my new (to me) Pass XA30.5 HELP!
Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can provide input here, but the Nova's preamp section was designed to pair with it's Class D amplification. I'm not sure the same design would have been used if this were a Class A integrated amp - I'm referencing that Pass is Class A...at least to a certain wattage where it turns to A/B. |
Yes, I'm not going to 'pass' judgment until I get a preamp that I know pairs well with the Pass amp. I'm hoping that it's just a synergy thing. The Peachtree pre section has an output impedance of 100 ohms. Would that information have any bearing on whether or not it would play nice with the Pass? decooney, I got the amp used from a guy who used it in his main system so I assume its well broken-in. Don't know the number of hours though |
@adam8179 Ok. No joke, I've seen people use them 50 hours, not read the manual, put 'em in a closet, lose patience, change through 2 owners, and the 3rd owner with patience wins and gets the gold at 250-300hrs burn-in. Also, in this test case scenario you are not just adding the Nova preamp circuit, your adding a pair of interconnects into the mix now too, right?. Lower grade interconnects can also be poor tone and soundstage passive equalizers too. In some cases completely taking the life out of the sound IF too veiled over. Just another thought in comparison. |
The 100 ohm output impedance of the Peachtree's preamp section, which Stereophile measured as being "constant across the audio band," is fine for driving the XA30.5. Are jumpers connected between pins 1 and 3 of the XA30.5's XLR input connectors? If not that would most likely be the cause of at least part of the problem, and perhaps all of it. Good luck. Regards, -- Al |
adam8179 Your right to ask for help, there must be something either wrong with the Pass labs XA30.5 or as Almarg said the set-up you had it in. The importer (who has a very good ear) here in Australia for Peachtree, Krell, Focal, Triangle, MF and other things, excused the sound quality of the Peachtree amp when demo’ing the range of French Triangle speakers to us in his sound lounge of his warehouse He said sorry and would have used the Krell Integrated it’s so much better, but he was out of stock. Cheers George |
I had a Nova150 several years ago and currently run a Pass XA30.8 in my main system today. The two amps couldn't sound any more different. I realize we all have different preferences for sound but to me the Peachtree sounded dry, brittle, and 2 dimensional - essentially all the cons that are often attributable to Class D amps (sometimes unfairly IMO). The Pass on the other hand is smooth, rich, and downright more musical to my ears - it's not even close. |
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I had a nova 300 on loan and thought for the money it was really good. I never got the impression it was opening any hidden doors or unlocking my speakers. I considered Pass, but a hegel h360 won the contest with the speakers I had, the Revel salon 1 and h360 are Amazing, Imagine my disappointment when the salon 2's were a downgrade with that amp. It's common to find mismatches in this hobby regardless of price. |
Here's what I think is going on, based on reading those who have listened to Pass and gave me more than pure fandom:
If you have excellent hearing but didn't grow up with Pass or grow up with other amps that led you that way you are not going to like it. The now old ICEPower ASP line is one I like to listen to more than Pass, after it has warmed up for a week. I like ICEpower more than Pass. I like Luxman and Ayre more than ICEpower. |
This is actually a common situation for people who handle a lot of gear. As a reviewer I run into such things on a continual basis. I had all kinds of interesting outcomes with the Kinki Studio EX-M1+ integrated that can operate also in dedicated preamp or amp modes. Wildly different outcomes are possible depending upon which gear, cabling, etc. are used. So, don't be shocked or horrified at the result. I am of the camp that would say the preamp of the Peachtree was designed particularly for use with the internal Class D, and it should not be expected that it would excel with any given other amp. The fact is, no one knows the outcome of a combo of gear until it is tried. I have often had unusual combinations of gear sound better/worse than any other possible combination/component. The performance spectrum and personal preference spectrum together is VERY wide. There are hundreds of outcomes when mixing gear, not to mention cabling, and it is very likely that the proper preamp with the Pass amp will bring that combo to another new threshold of sound quality. I would most definitely not blame the amp. This is why I build several systems when reviewing, because you don't know the innate character/capacity of the product unless you do. Just the other day I put together a rig with some Pass Labs amplification on review (No, not saying which) and the Exogal Comet DAC ahead of it. Outcome, just as you describe; too warm and lacking to my satisfaction in definition. Not a great combo, although I have made stunning rigs with both of these items with very satisfactory sound. Then, I went through an upgrade to the Small Green Computer sonicTransporter and SONOR Signature Rendu SE systemOptique that I reviewed and use for source. BOOM, now the same combo was rich, luxurious, no longer suffering the milky, indistinct sound. Had I tried it after the upgrades were done I would think the combo to be all that - and it is, given the "new" source. Ergo, all components, etc. combine to yield the result. It's just not as simple as this or that component is not good, is good, etc. |
The other thing here are the recordings and one’s reaction to them. Some systems will sound full, detailed and crisp. But some recordings will sound too cool with an edge to the treble end that becomes fatiguing. Some systems will sound warm, smooth and rewarding most of the time. But some recordings will sound slow, slightly blanketed and less dynamic. So, your room, speakers, preamp, cables and front send source are going to combine with your chosen amp to deliver the sound you might enjoy with the recordings you prefer. A lot of variables, so YMMV... |
Thanks everyone for your input. This has been very helpful. Tvad and Al, I did install the jumpers in the XLR inputs so that part is out of the equation. I'm gonna see what happens with the LTA when it comes. Clearly the pre section in the Peachtree was designed for the power section of the Peachtree so maybe that'll change things. It's interesting, I agree that the Pass sounds more dimensional and luxurious and less "dry" than the Peachtree but I can't trade that for all the things that the Peachtree is doing better for me at this point. More detail, more crispness, more highs in general and a tighter more assured sound. Maybe I'm a class D fanboy? Jury's still out. Thanks again everyone |
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Hmm. In the measurements section of Stereophile’s review of the Nova300 John Atkinson states as follows: ... all measurements of the nova300 were taken using Audio Precision’s auxiliary AUX-0025 passive low-pass filter, which eliminates noise above 200kHz that might otherwise overload the SYS2722’s input circuitry. Without the filter, there was almost 1V of ultrasonic noise present at the Peachtree’s output, with a center frequency of 472kHz. And I would expect that 1 volt of ultrasonic noise to be considerably greater when the Nova300’s preamp section is being used in conjunction with the Pass amp, since a speaker load is not connected to the Nova in that situation. In other words what you’ve got in that setup is a **very** powerful RFI generator located somewhere in the vicinity of the Pass amp. I’m thinking that a significant contributor to the problem may be the result of that RFI finding its way into the Pass amp, either by coupling into the power wiring or the interconnect cables or the speaker cables, or perhaps directly through the air. Good luck. Regards, -- Al |
@tvad I like PASS a lot, only with certain speakers and preamps. Some of the better sounding setups I’ve heard with various Pass amps and Pass preamps was with lower 87-93db sensitivity, 6-8ohm speaker’s. A little more laid back, more musical - a much better match having sensitive hearing coming from SS to all tube now. A few years ago spent a few hours on/off listening to some of the new Pass (.8) series amps during an audio show, paired up with very-well-known highly efficient 98db speakers. Being blunt, that room was by far one of the worst and least musical sounding systems in the entire show, IMO. Super fatiguing. Felt bad for the Nelson Pass’ life-size cardboard cutouts on display. No, it was not Nelson’s room. Someone else’s. Recently sold two pairs of Cardas Gold Cross interconnects (extremely veiled over, rich) from my own solid state amps. Great match for some SS amps. Some PASS owners love them. Sold! The buyer needed them to take " a lot of the edge off " his new Pass amps with HIS particular speakers. Read up on Pass XP-10 vs. XP-20 preamps, and those commonly using really good TUBE preamps, combined with older Cardas - "Golden", "Cross" series IC cables to help SMOOTH things out, take the edge off in these same type of situations. Speaker matching with Pass amps is key. Preamps matter too! |
adam8179 OP
Read very careful what almarg has said above 4 posts back, as I said in my post "Your right to ask for help, there must be something either wrong with the Pass labs XA30.5 or as Almarg said the set-up you had it in." Cheers George |
Thanks for everyone's input and interest. I have an update. My LTA MZ2 arrived yesterday and I have it installed in my system with the Pass XA30.5. Wow!! this combo is wonderful. All the things I found lacking using the Peachtree as a preamp are gone. No more congested heaviness. I don't know what to ascribe this to but I couldn't be happier. I still think the Peachtree is a great integrated and a great all-in-one product, but now the Pass and LTA combo are in a whole other league. I've never heard things sound so good. There are more details in the highs with the Peachtree but the Pass and LTA are better in every other way, soundstage, timbre, presence and liquidity. It's not that the highs aren't there, it's just a crispness that's different and may be a characteristic of class D. I'm glad that I didn't pass judgement on the Pass amp before I got an appropriate pre-amp to pair it with |
adam8179 OP I think it could be explained better that the highs from the Pass XA30.5 would wash over you with it’s detailed sound without drawing attention to it self, rather than being fired directly at you from the tweeters with the Class-D. One makes the tweeters disappear the other doesn’t. That’s what linear Class-A does when it’s doing it right. . Good to see it worked out, like Almarg and I both said you must have had either a faulty XA30.5 or it was something in the setup. Cheers George |
