Steakster, I’d love to know which LPS(s) you would recommend for my digital front end components based on your experience.
I knew I shouldn’t have thrown my Electrical Engineering text book in the campus pond!
My apologies in advance for the length of this post. Feel free to skip it but I feel a little background is needed for perspective. 45 years ago in my 2nd year as a Civil Engineering major, i took the mandatory introduction to Electrical Engineering course (the same one taken by Electrical Engineering majors). Suffice it to say, the class that covered from this is current to these are MOSFETs, JFETS, FPGAs absolutely kicked my butt. I prepared myself and my parents for the inevitable F. I even skipped the final so i could prepare for my other finals. So when my semester grades arrived I had my mom open them. She, dad, and i broke into cheers when we saw that i received a D! It was at that moment that I promised I would never risk anyone’s safety and would stay away from electronics. Upon returning to campus for the next semester, i sealed the deal by throwing my EE text book in the campus center pond.
Fast forward 45 years and here i am neck deep in the hobby i love trying to figure out the potential benefits of adding linear power supplies to either my streamer (Lumin D2) or digital music server (Roon Nucleus) or both. I just bought a RME ADI-2 FS DAC (to take over DAC functions from the Lumin) and for the first time i heard a step function improvement in sound quality in my system. I’ve made many tweaks/equipment upgrades over the years which have each make incremental improvements, but this was a wow with ear-to-ear-grin improvement! As i get older, the still curious engineer and researcher in me likes to read audiophile books like “The Complete Guide to High-End Audio“ by Robert Harley, magazines like The Absolute Sound and Stereophile, and forums such as here on AG to understand how and why a tweak or upgrade could affect the music of my integrated system. So, long story short, if i had known I’d be going down this awesome but at times frustrating audiophile rabbit hole, i would not have thrown the text book in the pond and i would have repeated that EE course so i would truly understand the miracle that is electronics and be a better educated hunter for the next upgrade to my system. I need that knowledge to understand and leverage all of the information that is out there on LPS; a way to separate the marketing/bias and be able to analyze & predict LPS cause and effect in my particular system. So, if you’ve come this far, in addition to the digital pieces already mentioned, my analog front end is a Linn Sondek LP12 with Linn K3 cartridge playing through a Vincent PHO-701 phono pre. Both digital and analog front ends play through a Primaluna Dialog HP Integrated amp into Goldenear Triton 3 speakers (which will be my last significant upgrade improvement investment…thinking of Joseph Audio Perspective 2’s). I listen mostly to Various Jazz sub-genres.
Thank you if you’ve gotten this far. If you have any insights or recommendations regarding the addition of LPS to either Streamer or server, or both, i would love to hear from you.
Fast forward 45 years and here i am neck deep in the hobby i love trying to figure out the potential benefits of adding linear power supplies to either my streamer (Lumin D2) or digital music server (Roon Nucleus) or both. I just bought a RME ADI-2 FS DAC (to take over DAC functions from the Lumin) and for the first time i heard a step function improvement in sound quality in my system. I’ve made many tweaks/equipment upgrades over the years which have each make incremental improvements, but this was a wow with ear-to-ear-grin improvement! As i get older, the still curious engineer and researcher in me likes to read audiophile books like “The Complete Guide to High-End Audio“ by Robert Harley, magazines like The Absolute Sound and Stereophile, and forums such as here on AG to understand how and why a tweak or upgrade could affect the music of my integrated system. So, long story short, if i had known I’d be going down this awesome but at times frustrating audiophile rabbit hole, i would not have thrown the text book in the pond and i would have repeated that EE course so i would truly understand the miracle that is electronics and be a better educated hunter for the next upgrade to my system. I need that knowledge to understand and leverage all of the information that is out there on LPS; a way to separate the marketing/bias and be able to analyze & predict LPS cause and effect in my particular system. So, if you’ve come this far, in addition to the digital pieces already mentioned, my analog front end is a Linn Sondek LP12 with Linn K3 cartridge playing through a Vincent PHO-701 phono pre. Both digital and analog front ends play through a Primaluna Dialog HP Integrated amp into Goldenear Triton 3 speakers (which will be my last significant upgrade improvement investment…thinking of Joseph Audio Perspective 2’s). I listen mostly to Various Jazz sub-genres.
Thank you if you’ve gotten this far. If you have any insights or recommendations regarding the addition of LPS to either Streamer or server, or both, i would love to hear from you.
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ezstreams- I talked to the tech support guys at RME about cable and power supplies. In regards to my question about using an LPS, they wrote “Thanks for choosing the ADI-2 DAC FS! RME does not recommend changing the power supply. The unit is designed to work optimally with the included switching power supply, and there are multiple power conditioning stages built-in inside the DAC to take care of any potential issues with the resulting power.They say as much in their owners manual, but i wanted to double-check. If you want to get seriously good at this then you really should get in the habit of reading all my posts. There are a lot and I don't have them bookmarked by subject matter. But somewhere in the last few days there was one where I said, save you the time, every manufacturer will tell you their whatever is so perfect nothing can improve it ever- no conditioner, no wire, no fuse, no nothing- you can only upgrade to their next whatever. Imagine, if you had been reading my posts you would have known this is all they ever will tell you, saved all that time and trouble, and instead of spinning your wheels working on something better instead. Live and learn. |
I was a Chemistry Major, or at least started out as one, 40 years ago. Actually I was Pre Med, had enjoyed Chemistry in HS,, and didn’t realize that there so much damn Math and Physics required for the Undergraduate Major. Before I bailed on the Major I was trying to buff my Physics Credit Requirement with a 4 hour, 1 Credit Physics class that was titled something like the Physics of Music reproduction. To this day it is the Science Course that I remember the most. We examined how turn tables need to work, from tangential tracking to the physics of a stylus riding in a groove, the differences between mono and stereo cartridges, the principles of electricity and magnetism and how cartridges needed to generate electrical signals and how speakers take that analog signal and produce sound, and a few other topics. It was amazing to me how much more I gave a damn about these concepts when they were applied to something important than just learning about them in the abstract to pass a test |
Thank you all for your insights, suggestions and advice. I talked to the tech support guys at RME about cable and power supplies. In regards to my question about using an LPS, they wrote “ Thanks for choosing the ADI-2 DAC FS! RME does not recommend changing the power supply. The unit is designed to work optimally with the included switching power supply, and there are multiple power conditioning stages built-in inside the DAC to take care of any potential issues with the resulting power.They say as much in their owners manual, but i wanted to double-check. In regards to cable, they advised me not buy an expensive digital cable for the Lumin to RME connection, but do buy a good quality set of analogue RCA cable for the RME to Primaluna connection. The frustrating thing is i live in a small city that has the second highest percentage of post graduated degreed population in the country and a very high average income level, but the only high end audio store here went out of business maybe 20 years ago. So, i have to drive 2 hours to Nashville or 3 hours to Atlanta to listen to anything. I love a good road trip, but these stereo shops seldom carry the pieces ive read and researched so most times. So, testrun, you are spot on, Goldprint in NC is where ill need to go to listen to the JA Perspectives. Thank you for letting me know the owner their is a good dude. I had done some rading about ether-re-gen products before and wiil read the one you sent lalitk. Thank you. |
Hello, I have heard a significant difference by adding a LPS. The SBooster is really good. If it doesn’t make a difference then why would Pass put its power supplies in separate chassis. SPS are there for profit or at the minimum to keep costs down. The MYTEK Liberty has a unique option to use a regular power cord that feeds into SPS or a DC input so you can add your own LPS. It makes a big difference. Plus, When you power off the SBooster that green light stays on for a while. This is telling me that this has power to spare. There is a reason why we love class A sound over class D. Continuous raw power. It’s the best for sound. We just hate you can fry an egg on it and it costs a lot to run and buy. Class D has come a looong way! There is a reason why Jeff Rowland still uses A/B in his $17,000 amp vs class D in his $6500 amp. It just sounds better. It’s the same reason why Vinyl is better sounding ( with the right gear and pressings). It sounds better! It is true analog HiRez. I would rather have a naturally aspirated engine over a turbo of the same HP. The bad thing is down the road I feel there will be no more naturally aspirated engines or class A-A/B components. I just hooked up an old Sony preamp to my amp. It is unbelievable. Yes, you can heat up your room in the winter with it but it is way better than my current Emotiva USP 1 which I believe is class H. My end goal is Ayre separates. Until then I will have to compromise. I do want to get a LPS kit for my Node 2i. Several of you have said it is well worth it. |
I didn't throw away the text book. A poorly implemented LPS may be worse than a well implemented SMPS. Power supplies have phase and impedance properties. The audio circuitry is simply a regulator for the power supply. Changing the power supply will make things different, not necessarily better. "Some of my work involved tuning the power supply. It may come as a surprise to learn that you can change tonality without even touching the signal path, because the signal originates from the power supply. The impedance curve of the N11's power supply is absolutely homogenous from DC to 200kHz, which creates a very balanced sound. I also tuned the resistors for the voltage gain, using a mix of carbon and metal resistors to create a neutral balance. There are a lot of preamps that claim to be 'neutral' or 'in balance,' but there are different shades of 'neutral.' If you have a tube preamp, for example, 'neutral' is at a different level than solid-state; it's not better or worse, but it is different. It took a lot of work to find the tonal balance I like a lot that measures well, with low noise, and fits very well in the Noble Line." from MBL Noble Line N11 line preamplifier | Stereophile.com Many Tweekers have zero clue of what they are doing and most of the their improvements are simply changes. Posters with 10,000+ posts fall into that category. Sadly, HiFi is riddled with charlatans. Most of the improvements can be explained from readily measurable phenomena. Ignore ALL FanBoy specific recommendations as they all only apply to a specific system in a specific room. And likely 9/10ths of the time, make another system worse. |
There’s no good reason to swap out a power supply if it’s functioning properly. As for linear power supplies vs. switching power supplies, I suggest reading the following link: https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/152143111-audio-myth-switching-power-supplies-are... This can help you figure out whether it’s something to tweak or leave alone. |
Reading your post I felt like I was reading about myself. I had the same challenge while getting my Industrial Engineering degree back in '79. I live in NC and know Taylor at Goldprint pretty well. He is a great person as is Jeff Joseph. I own first generation Perspectives and have talked to Jeff about cables, amps and upgrading. Jeff, as well as Taylor, are assets to the industry. I'm about to take delivery of a Lumin T2 and have the same question about LPS. I'm planning to spend some time living with the T2 before I do anything. I'm starting to believe room dynamics / interaction come into play making the impact of tweaks room dependent. On a side note - MC - I also have Townshend Podiums on the way for my Perspectives. I've convinced myself to go the speaker isolation direction before adding another tweaks. |
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Does the picture on your large flat screen TV look worse because it has a cheap switching power supply? Of course not! SWPS's were perfected years ago! Only the neurotically obsessed claim that a linear PS is somehow sonically "better"! Don't fall for the hype!Nothing in this thing is accurate or meaningful. Maybe “SWPS” (whatever they are) were perfected years ago, but definitely not the case with SMPS. Please take your garbage back to Reddit — it doesn’t fly here. |
@ezstreams I also have the RME and it is an already amazing DAC. I also upgraded the power supply to the Teddy Pardo as well as a decent PC. For me two things really helped improve this DAC other than playing with the settings. Very decent XLR cables to go balanced into your amp and a good USB cable from my laptop. I'm running Audrivana and my digital never sounded so good. |
+1, @soix @ezstreams, If you haven’t already, try high quality Ethernet cable like Supra CAT8 on both D2 and Nucleus. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supra-CAT-8-ETHERNET-cable-1-meter-Made-In-Sweden-THE-BEST-FOR-NETWORK-AUDI... And this, strangely noise filtering on Ethernet stream improves a variety of areas sonically. https://www.djmelectronics.com/gigafoilv4-inline-ethernet-filter.html |
You're not missing anything. Our understanding of audio is so primitive the only electronics it pays to understand are the very basics. The more you try and buy based on tech like LPS the less likely you are to succeed. Focus like a laser beam on listener evaluations of sound quality and leave the tech for designers and builders. |
Thank you for your thoughts and perspective (pi) soix! i just am not sure if the investment in something like an SBooster for the Lumin (which voids its warranty) and a Teddy Pardo for the Nucleus should and would make a big difference. So many people talk about night and day improvements that i’m still leery, even after the example i just recently experienced. Unfortunately the nearest Joseph Audio dealership is about a 7 hour drive from me, so i’m relying on reviews and opinions from others. I need to bite the bullet and make a long weekend out of it. You’re “don’t litter” comment struck a funny chord in that I was an Environmental Science major before changing to Civil Eng. |