How is your power bill?

My bill went up from $80 to $180 when I bought a pair of Krell Evo 600. Now I turn them off after listening instead putting them on stand by to save money.

At one time I had some Lamm 1.1 monoblocks as well as a few of the Krell pure class A heat hog amps and my power bill was at least $60 more a month. That's one thing I pay attention to anymore when buying equipment; what is the power consumption (guess I've gone green).

Nickt: Did it make a significant difference?

My power bill (in Houston, Tx, where power is paradoxically expensive) goes up by about $150/mo. if I play the stereo a lot. There are 23 tubes plus two isolation transformers in use when vinyl is playing, so some of the cost is additional A/C to counteract all those space heaters. The two channel system sounds great with video, but due to the cost, I now use it infrequently for tv. If you're complaining about paying $70/mo - good grief. Mine is at least 5x that, in a modest apartment. And down south, you will avoid Obabma's plan to raise rates for all US residents, during a recession, with the carbon-swap scheme.

Lloydc: HA! Yes, I am grateful that it is only $70 but nonetheless that is a sharp increase and I wanted to know if the real reason was my gorging on music and movies and whether or not I was alone in this increased cost of living! I sorta new the answer already! The current political climate in the U.S. is one of the big reasons that we are making the move!! I understand your sentiment.

My Krell FPB300cx has the following listed in the owners manual as power consumption;
Stand by; 60w
Idle; 175w
Hauling butt; 1700w

The KCT manual doesn't list the power consumption. It does run very warm at idle so I reckon it sucks some juice.
A small price to pay for the tunes it produces.
-John

"The current political climate in the U.S. is one of the big reasons that we are making the move!!"

Huh? You don't mean increased DEA inforcement on the US side I assume? LOL

My friends just got highjacked and robbed on the way to Rosarito Beach in Mexico. Headless bodies are turning up all over Baja and the State Dept is telling kids to go elsewhere for spring break.

Enjoy.

At the risk of sounding "smug", Class D amps are the equivalent of hybrid or even electric cars in terms of energy consumption.

Similarly spec'ed and much larger Class A amps are like Hummers!

Obama will probably institute a heavy tax on tube amps, and completely outlaw Class A.

Rumor has it Obama actually likes tubes. They are hip, look cool as they glow and thereby are good for his image!

I think there may be an "earmark" in that recent stimulus package to fund research for more energy efficient valves, though!

I congratulate you , to have been able to stomach 8 years of Bush and be revolted by Obama after a month shows a refinement of taste that I can only envy. My electric bills have been running about $500 the last three months, which my power company assures me is normal for 2 elderly people and a small dog. I use AB amps which are cool to the touch during play.

Obama is also a big fan of horns as a way to achieve higher DBs with less power consumption.

Invest in Klipsch, Avantgarde and SET amp producers!

If he taxes my power hungry OHMs though, watch out!

Mapman! Sign me up for some Hummers then...and speaking of which, when Hummer is sold off by GM because of the financial crisis maybe they will become even nicer...kinda like the Bentley of SUVs.

Best!

Just think of the impact audiophiles could have on world energy consumption if we all dropped our monster amps and switched (no pun) to Class D!

Then again, audiophiles are so few in number overall that it would probably make little difference.

They should really target all those power guzzling mid-fi guys out there! Their amps guzzle power and are not even all that efficient!

Not sure what my power bill is. . . but I suspect the impact of my system must be negligible. . . I have left on my complete stereo (JRDG 312 class D amp, Capri pre, X-01 CDp) on at full power since Christmas and my wife just noticed it yesterday. . . no complaints about the power bill. . . BTW. . . when several years ago I left on my JRDG 7Ms for 2 weeks. . . I was nearly victim of hostile divorce proceedings. G.

Before attacking Obama,those of you who do should search your own souls. You sound like people who do not seem very sensitive about the environment or the impact they might have on it. Bush grievously damaged this country, militarily,environmentally, economically and morally. Obama is left with the task of cleaning out the filth left in the stables by his ignorant and arrogant predecessor. With Global Warming and possible environmental catastrophe lurking, Krell Class A owners might think of using a more modest power source and still enjoy their hobby. Every one is responsible for the fate of the planet and the carbon footprint they leave behind; from SUV drivers to Krell owners. While we are preoccupied with what cd player, amplifiers and turntables to use, Obama will put this country back on track and help save our planet. Let's not forget the big picture as we enjoy our hobby

Don't forget to take Rush with you!!!

I find it interesting that someone can extrapolate a person's views, thoughts, political stance, environmental position & whatever else from an amp choice. Wow!

It seems to me thus far that Mr. Obama is to the presidency what Machina Dynamica is to audio. Hype with little substance that at best will prove useless and expensive and at worst harmful and expensive but still has a small, vocal, zealous following.

At some point it has to become Obama's presidency and not the labeling of every mistake or misstep made a "clean up" of the previous adminstation and Congress (they helped very much in getting us where we are). Perhaps some of the more enlightened forum members will tell us when the clock actually starts on the Obama presidency.

The vitriol directed at the Bush adminstration - which was not perfect - in no way ameliorates Mr. Obama's early displays of ignorance in economics, cabinet selection, & foreign policy but only serves as a smoke screen to deflect attention. The next adminstration I am sure will speak to "cleaning up" the Obama adminstration's policies with which they disagree much as the Bush administration had to steam clean the oval office hall to remove Clinton's "presidue" stains from the carpet.


Side rant:
"Green" is now a pop culture marketing word used to sell product that actually does nothing to improve the world as we know it - as in new improved green Viagra - 'it gives you wood' -- You get the idea.

Those proclaiming greenness are mostly hypocrites that still consume all they detest but with slight moderation and self righteous disgust.

There- I feel better.

I thought this was a power bill discussion? We would be far more productive if we kept the political bullshit out of this thread. Obama and Bush are inevitably 3rd rail topics, and any sensible person can find the flaws of both without a brain cramp.

And have ANY of us been persuaded to switch political allegiances by a post on Audiogon?

Didn't think so.

Danlib-

Politics indirectly or more recently very directly is affecting our power bills but you are more correct than not.

I am sure the moderators will step in and wrest control of the thread shortly before we come to blows.

I haven't noticed any recent change in my power bill. That's my wife's department and she guards it well.

Puerto I purchased a P4400 Kill A Watt power meter. This meter has a read out that will display amps voltage frequency power and watt per kwh with a timer function. It sells for about $23 on amazon.You can use this on any 120 volt appliance in you house. You just plug it into the wall outlet and then plug you amp into the meter. It is good for up to 1800 watts. Works great. GHS

Your right Entrope - I think that we would all agree that we as a country were better off under The Bush regime. 2.6 million out of work ....the banks had a blind eye turned to them and left to their own devices....a president from Texas and all of the oil companies had record profits lager than some counties GNP.... manufacturing allowed to leave this country and still get tax breaks.....personal religous beliefs by a president who is to be supposed to be nuetral in that position making decsions on how my life is supposed to be run....and being pretty much hated by the rest of the world due to that man's ignorances - yes their is place in Texas that had lost their village idiot -I also am a registered Independent - so I can make a clear decison

It's so bad I decided to buy stock in the company that provides my juice.

I think here in Southern Ca. the DWP rates have gone up/ as well as including other things-- such as City; large item pick-up and the like.
I would surmise the X6 increase might also have some hidden charges and or rate increase--(for the original poster)
As I heard on tv; we are still paying for some of that Enron debacle.
While enjoying a Chatsworth summer;anything that adds to the summer ambiance is not desirable. I have changed from near 60 tubes to a ss stereo amp and a one box/2 tube pre/ cd player.-------And I still pay more than what that set-up used to cost,to run.
Also, I stay away from mono blocks that require dedicated 30 amp. circuits;ea.

Garebear- glad that you agree.

I am sure that you took my rant as defensive of Bush rather that indictment of the hype surrounding our current cardboard-cutout-in-chief.

So if Mr.Obama doubles the problems left by the Bush regime in his misguided flailing about I suppose it will still be Bush's fault?

GHS - Thanks for that tip, it may well be worth trying! I will also, as some of you have mentioned, turn the amps totally off vs.a standby mode and avoid the action movies. I think the movies may be the main culprit in driving up the power bill. It's comforting to know, in a perverse sort of way, that I am not the only one that has done this to myself!

Not in my wildest dreams did I ever imagine that a simple request for feedback on audio equipment power consumption would generate such well thought out, insightful, running commentary on our country's current political climate and my choices in life. Wow, I'm really counting my blessings!

For those that thought that purchasing my Krell fpb 350's was inappropriate - You were right! I should have bought the 750's!

Entrope, your display of ignorance on world economy, the placement of blame, and the defense of the Bush administration is pure political bullshit. This economic downturn, spiraling to god know's where; cannot be blamed on any one person, administration or event. Regardless, of who sits in the Oval Office, or any other elected or non-elected office (Rush Blimpo), the state of the economy would have and will follow a corresponding trajectory. Open the newspaper. Look at the banks worldwide. Watch the unemployment rate. Observe the effect upon governments and public confidence.

To add commentary on "when the clock actually starts on the Obama presidency", is akin to asking at what point the heart surgeon finds him/herself responsible for the smoking, over-weight patient.

Noone knows; not economic experts, not the most successful business leaders, certainly not politicians, and definitely not entertainers and talk show hosts( Bill Maher); what caused this quagmire or what is the most effective way out. The future (attack on the twin towers, Katrina, housing bubble, etc. etc. etc.) cannot be foreseen. Those in power do what they and their staff believe is best.

The economy and world of finances is dictated by such a vast array of inextricable determinants, that making allusion to Obama and the present economy is rife with ignorance and political bias. Why not blame Henry Ford or an Amazonian hatcheting a piece of the forest for today's global weather changes...if they actually exist.

I have no objection to theorists offering thought provoking intimation, but save the you-against-us mentality. This is global...it is real...it ain't going away. Follow this back, as you would any evolving progression. Maybe it was greed, or maybe it was savvy business practice. Maybe it was excessive borrowing, or maybe it was an incredible period of growth. People spend...people build...people are employed. You will be hard pressed to find a period of expansion without consumer involvement.

Drop the Rush bullshit and let's find a way to help those in need, as well as those who fuel the engines.

Siddh you have made my point better than I did.

I did not seek to defend the Bush administration so much as to point out exactly what you said:

"cannot be blamed on any one person, administration or event."

That is exactly what I was alluding to in pointing out the vilification of the previous adminstration(s) and deification of the current one which remains unproven to be good or bad.

I wish that more had your perspective in understanding that the current state of affairs was a "team" effort including both liberals and conservatives. Nobody wants to take the blame so by electoral acclaimation Bush gets it all. So many people find it cathartic to have a single point of blame because it saves them from thinking to much.

Even your mostly well said comments reflect your displeasure at the linking of Obama to a bad economy (true or not). And why a personal attack on Limbaugh rather than an intellectual one? He is only an entertainer not an elected anything. He is less relevant than he thinks he is -much like a pro-wrestler compared to pro boxers. One fakes it for reaction the other really gets hit.

"Bush-whacking" (pun-get it) in this case and Clinton bashing before it really serves no constructive purpose but as always in politics a place to lay blame is better than a move forward.

By the way - how are your electric bills?

As far as I can tell my bill increased 20 to 30 dollars with my class A tube amps. I have added a foam SPF cool roof to my condo,so that dropped my bill about 70 bucks a month. If you have a flat roof home it is a great way to cut energy consumption.

Wavetrader: What is a foam SPF cool roof? A portion of our home in Mexico is flat. It may be pertinent to this thread since it is a way to offset higher power bills due to our equipment.

Hi Puerto,

Here's a link about SPF roofs. You might google spray foam roof contractors Mexico.

One benifit among many is that my condo is quieter as a result. I never thought about how much outside noise comes in from the roof area. The best coating color is white as the heat that is relected off in the summer is amazing...cool summers and the foam keeps heat in and cold out in the winter.

http://www.sprayfoam.com/spps/ahpg.cfm?spgid=7

Polyurethane can also be used in the attic space in place of blown in insulation. FWIW.

Many thanks Wavetrader - I will check it out.

Ausjoe: Thankyou also for the response. We do not have attics in Mexico. It would probably become home to many geckos, scorpions and other such creatures!

If one thinks his/her power bill is too high, blame Obama!

I see my advice is Shit. I shall move on.

Danlib1: Your advice was right on the mark.

Elizabeth: Pretty amazing wasn't it - imagine my surprise. Thanks for the input.

Elizabeth...At 12 cents per kwhr, $12.00 will buy you 100 kwhr.
There are 720 hours in a month.
So, your amp draws 100/720 = 0.139 Kw or about 140 watts. Sounds about right.

It was funny the way a simple comment about the effect of Mr. Obama's carbon-swap policy on the price of electricity seemed to set everyone off on a political tangent. Obviously, any increase in the cost of producing and delivering electricity is passed along to its consumers, so our power bills here in the US WILL soon increase if Mr. Obama's carbon swap plan is implemented. Mr. Obama believes that the benefit to the envorinonment of this scheme outweigh the negative effects of increased power bills throughout the US during a recession. All US-based Audiogoners will pay the price for it, not just those who so vociferously agree here, with everything Mr. Obama wants to impose.

The cap and trade program is projected to cost the American family an additional $3100 per year on top of what they already pay for utilities. Even some Democrats are backing away from that. We should not be penalized for using the only sources of energy made available to us. Perhaps my Krells will soon be a luxury that I cannot afford to enjoy. They will become a monument to tax and spend policies.

My equipment is in Mexico where the electrical utilities are a graduated cost. That is to say, use very little power and your rate is very low (likewise the bill), use more electricity and the excess is billed at a higher rate and so on. There are three levels of rates. We had always fallen in the lowest category (about $10 per month) until I brought in the three Krells and Maggie 20.1s. Yikes, overnight we landed in the highest category of rate charges and the bill was $70. I have taken the following steps:

1. Use the center channel and sub amp very infrequently

2. Quit using the system altogether for movies

3. Turn the amps off - no more standby

These are measures that we will all be considering if the cap and trade policies are put in place!

Out of sheer necessity, I used to be archi-conservative (please note lower case in 'c' of conservative) in the use of my system. . . my Rowland 7Ms and the ARC Ref 3 were all gas guzzlers. . . my wife noticed with horror, whenever my stereo was active more than a few hours per week, that our power bill quickly grew into undesirable regions. . . One year ago my Ref 3 has been switched to a JRDG capri, which draws only 6W, and the 7Ms have been replaced by a class D JRDG 312 which runs as cool as a cuke. My stereo is now on 24/7 making music sounding better than ever. . . and my wife has not made a peep about power bills ever since.

Thank you for this thread. My power bill averages $30.00 a month. I occasionally consider adding tube electronics, mostly because I like to fiddle around with things. I had never thought about power usage and cost before. I hate paying monthly bills and paying $300 a month for power is shocking and wasteful. Anyway I love the sound of my Naim Nait 5i-2. That Audio Research VSi60 I have been fantasizing about is hereby off the wish-list.

I wonder if any of the rest of us has gone on to purchase a different audio product because of power consumption concerns like guidocorona. My hat is off to him/her. It's a smart choice, all things considered - I think that for most of us, it is like giving up that big luxury car! I struggle with that! Nice going guidocorona.

Thank you Puerto. I did not choose the JRDG 312 merely because of its efficiency. Rather, its sonic signature enchanted me, and its power efficiency convinced me. Similarly with the Capri, I prefer its sound over that of the ARC Ref 3. . . its mere 6W of power draw is welcome icing on the cake. . . In other words, I am not suffering of any audiophilically painful withdrawl symptoms from the musical Heaven of power guzzlers. . . for me going 'green' has been purely a win/win experience. G.

PS. All Guidos I have known are. . . boys. (grins!)

I live in New England so utilities are expensive. We have managed to save with a highly insulated home with active and passive solar. I'm working on a biodiesel cogeneration system that will get us well off the grid.

Before attacking Obama,those of you who do should search your own souls. You sound like people who do not seem very sensitive about the environment or the impact they might have on it. Bush grievously damaged this country, militarily,environmentally, economically and morally. Obama is left with the task of cleaning out the filth left in the stables by his ignorant and arrogant predecessor. With Global Warming and possible environmental catastrophe lurking, Krell Class A owners might think of using a more modest power source and still enjoy their hobby. Every one is responsible for the fate of the planet and the carbon footprint they leave behind; from SUV drivers to Krell owners. While we are preoccupied with what cd player, amplifiers and turntables to use, Obama will put this country back on track and help save our planet. Let's not forget the big picture as we enjoy our hobby

Dude you off your meds?
You probably need a box of Kleenex, lotion and privacy to watch Keith Olbermann.

RE: How is your power bill?

I saw my neighbor William standing in his yard, cleaning up branches after a recent storm. So I said,

"How is your power, Bill?"

He replied, "Mine's still on, and yours?"

Neither Obama or Bush would ask William that question, I say Albert for President.