Klipsch gets a lot of crap on forums but honestly my new Heresy III are a really good value in my opinion. I have had them almost two months, retubed with fresh EL34s and they are a great match. They don't do everything perfectly but what they do is sound big, and lively , and dynamic. They are fun to listen to, not clinical or boring.
High value, high efficiency speakers for SET amps
Hi, Gang,
I know that some of what I want to discuss here has been dealt with in other threads, some of them quite old, but I wanted to see if any of you fine, knowledgable folks are willing to help update and consolidate some of this info in a more current thread.
I am currently running my new Audio Note Kit 1 300B SET amp with a pair of Reference 3A De Capo speakers. I think it's a fine pairing and I am really enjoying what the 300B SET experience brings to the table in terms of musicality and emotional connection.
Still the De Capo, while supposedly an easy load due to its crossover-less design (only 1 cap on the tweeter with the mid-woofer directly coupled to the amp), is "only" rated at 92 db efficient, and based on the most recent Canadian NRC specs, that rating may be optimistic.
So, I am toying with the idea of trying a pair of more efficient, deliberately SET-friendly speakers in my rig, something that might also play lower and with greater dynamic swing than the De Capo's. Note that the De Capo's have served me well and I am very fond of them, but I can't help but wonder if my lovely Kit 1 would shine even better coupled to a VERY easy to drive speaker.
Devore and Audio Note are obvious options - the O/96 looks really tasty. Unfortunately, both of those choices are out of my budget, which I'm thinking maxes out (for real) at around $1500. I am willing to consider used equipment.
Tekton Lore 2.0: This is the speaker that Eric Alexander of Tekton has recommended when we've spoken on the phone, based upon my medium-small listening room and amp. I've read the epic "Lore vs. Zu" thread elsewhere in this forum, and clearly Tekton has its enthusiastic fans here. What I wonder is whether the Lore 2.0 has the refinement of the De Capo in terms of resolution, sweet high end and imaging. Audiogon'er Mikirob has pointed me to the many rave reviews of Tekton's speakers and I'm definitely interested.
I've corresponded with the Sonist folks (who are super nice) but their really high-efficiency, nearly-full-range floor stander is out of my budget.
Then there's the "vintage" route, going after some used JBL's or other high-efficiency "classics" from the 80's (or '70's). I am not inclined to go in this direction, but mention it because it's been suggested to me.
And then there's Omega. I spoke to Louis some time ago and he recommended his 7XRS hemp cone model. But I know all the raps on single driver designs and I'm cautious, although I would like to hear from any of you who own or have owned Omega's.
I'm in no rush to make a switch but I am very interested in your thoughts. Thanks, folks!
I know that some of what I want to discuss here has been dealt with in other threads, some of them quite old, but I wanted to see if any of you fine, knowledgable folks are willing to help update and consolidate some of this info in a more current thread.
I am currently running my new Audio Note Kit 1 300B SET amp with a pair of Reference 3A De Capo speakers. I think it's a fine pairing and I am really enjoying what the 300B SET experience brings to the table in terms of musicality and emotional connection.
Still the De Capo, while supposedly an easy load due to its crossover-less design (only 1 cap on the tweeter with the mid-woofer directly coupled to the amp), is "only" rated at 92 db efficient, and based on the most recent Canadian NRC specs, that rating may be optimistic.
So, I am toying with the idea of trying a pair of more efficient, deliberately SET-friendly speakers in my rig, something that might also play lower and with greater dynamic swing than the De Capo's. Note that the De Capo's have served me well and I am very fond of them, but I can't help but wonder if my lovely Kit 1 would shine even better coupled to a VERY easy to drive speaker.
Devore and Audio Note are obvious options - the O/96 looks really tasty. Unfortunately, both of those choices are out of my budget, which I'm thinking maxes out (for real) at around $1500. I am willing to consider used equipment.
Tekton Lore 2.0: This is the speaker that Eric Alexander of Tekton has recommended when we've spoken on the phone, based upon my medium-small listening room and amp. I've read the epic "Lore vs. Zu" thread elsewhere in this forum, and clearly Tekton has its enthusiastic fans here. What I wonder is whether the Lore 2.0 has the refinement of the De Capo in terms of resolution, sweet high end and imaging. Audiogon'er Mikirob has pointed me to the many rave reviews of Tekton's speakers and I'm definitely interested.
I've corresponded with the Sonist folks (who are super nice) but their really high-efficiency, nearly-full-range floor stander is out of my budget.
Then there's the "vintage" route, going after some used JBL's or other high-efficiency "classics" from the 80's (or '70's). I am not inclined to go in this direction, but mention it because it's been suggested to me.
And then there's Omega. I spoke to Louis some time ago and he recommended his 7XRS hemp cone model. But I know all the raps on single driver designs and I'm cautious, although I would like to hear from any of you who own or have owned Omega's.
I'm in no rush to make a switch but I am very interested in your thoughts. Thanks, folks!
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Every single component in the audio signal chain is important and influential (weakest link analogy). However I do agree that the amplifier/speaker interface is critical for success. Practically speaking you can't separate the amplifier and speaker, they're intertwined. As a pair they profoundly determine the ultimate sound quality of the audio system. Charles |
Speakers are indeed most important and the pairing with the right amp is part of it. The source is always important, but today many good ones can be had cheaply with the speaker/amp combo really determining the resulting sound to the greatest degree. @glennewdick. Agreed that the LV speakers are just wonderful! |
I currently use the Lore 2.0 [ti tweet, 10" woof] from Tekton - God didnt make this one. Its a mortal creation, imperfect. Its a high value [cheap] high efficiency large box that's not boomy and doing ok. Speaker reviews ARE LIKE SIZING UP A HORSE BY ONLY LOOKING AT THE REAR END. My view ie the Linn view: the speaker is always least important. The signal [front end] is most important. Every component downstream from the performance distorts and colors the initial signal, from the bow on the violin to the hall acoustics to the mikes and recording gear to the studio tape machines to the mastering to the plant to the cartridge then the tonearm and wire to the phono stage and then the ICs, then to the amp etc etc. By the time the signal reaches the speakers its been screwed with more than a model in high heels. So when a reviewer declares that some speaker is "great" without mentioning and factoring in the upstream components, hes doing little good, maybe more harm than good. Perhaps worse then a useless lame review if not falsifying. Speakers all color the sound and none can be designed to do otherwise. They also intentionally fall far short of "fidelity" to a recording, which has already fallen far short of a live performance, so whats the right criteria for gear reviews then? There is no such thing as right criteria! Had quite a few speakers and amps and preamps etc, tube and SS. Tape, vinyl and CD. Been there and back. I have yet to read a single gear review that even attempted to propose let alone declare "criteria" beyond stating biases and generalities. This isnt a creative hobby, its just trading toys. The only way one can advance is to trade up, take chances and thereby hope to learn as you go, using ones own room and gear and bank account. Few reviews helped in making a purchase; most reviews in fact are biased and misleading sales pitches and harm more than help; especially harmful to new buyers who are lacking experience and might be more easily suckered. . |
I'm jumping into this thread at the AudioNote AN e talk I have run them and they are wonderful. But not nearly at efficient as they claim. I sold mine and got a set of Living Voice Avatar 2's honest 94db and 6ohm load running them with 8wch 300b SET to great effect. Not quite as much base as the ANe's but much more musical and less one note bass then i found with the ANe's ( ANe's did not have much of a sound stage in my room either). You don't see Living Voice speakers here in North America often but they are worth a look at the same price range's as the lower ANE's (lower as in the $5k to $25k range lol) I really like the Avatar 2's they do something with the SET that suck you into the music. |
I'll check out the Roku. Their box technology for music streaming was not up to snuff with Amazon Fire TV box when it first came out, but things change. I used a pair of Roku Soundbridge Streamers to external DAC several years back prior to Squeezebox. Those sounded very good, undistinguishable from Squeezebox Touch into same DACs I thought at the time. I still have a couple sitting around unused but the hardware and software is somewhat dated these days. But I have been hoping Roku would get serious about music streaming again ever since and figured maybe it was just a matter of time. |
Regarding the Audio Note speakers, I just saw a pair on higherfi web site that shows a retail price of $250,000. I didn't realize they could go that higher. Then again, the site is called "higherfi". Next time I hear AN-E at a show and like them, I really need to nail down which ones they are exactly and how much they cost. They are usually among the best, but for those prices I suppose they should be. |
Hi, folks, I'm sorry for my absence. I haven't even visited this forum in a few weeks – it's been a very busy time. (I kind of wish that Audiogon had the feature that a lot of other bulletin boards have, allowing you to request email notification whenever someone posts to a particular thread.) Anyway, yes, I have had the opportunity to live with a couple of other speakers over the past few months. As some of you may have seen on my blog, Fritz Heiler of Fritz Speakers asked me to audition a pair of his Carbon 7 SE monitors. Actually still have them at home, waiting until the next reviewer is ready for them so Fritz can ship them along to him/her. They are really quite wonderful. I purchased and am currently using a pair of Omega Super Alnico monitors. This is Louis' top-of-the-line monitor, featuring his 6.5 inch hemp cone full range driver with an alnico magnet. Louis of Omega is quite the artisan – the zebra wood veneer is about the most beautiful finish I have ever seen on any speaker. Omega is a favorite choice of the Decware amplifier crowd and it is easy to see why. I have never heard any speaker that images and throws out a soundstage like these do. [Mapman: You should hear these things play Lindsey Buckingham's "Under the Skin!"] It's quite remarkable: with the right material, you get spaciousness similar to an omni speaker like Ohm, with the pinpoint imaging of a mini monitor. Midrange and coherence are also top notch. Up until now I've been listening to them on a pair of cheap, wobbly MDF stands that just happened to be the right height but that I know aren't bringing out the best in these speakers. I took the plunge on a pair of Skylan custom-made stands for these and I hope to have the chance to assemble them next week. At that point, I'll be ready to post some more useful impressions. Hope everyone's been well! |
It would be interesting to be able to actually audition and compare the various AN speaker models at the various price points. For me, what I find challenging is not what each model is so much as what are the difference in sound quality in that teh main difference seems to be the wires and other parts used more so than the basic design or drivers used. I would expect huge differences given teh range of prices but no way to know what to choose without listening and comparing it seems, more so than most lines. |
Charles/Bill, The two Audio Note Speakers of which I know the price is the ANE-LX-HE which is around $8700. I have these speakers and they have Lexus copper internal wire. And the ANE-SPe-HE which is around $9600. It has SPe silver internal wire. There are of course higher models with external crossover, but I dont know anything about their prices. Try amherst audio's website for for info. |
Rebbi, where are you? Tell us about your new Omega speakers. Please. I am shopping for a set of high efficiency speakers. I am leaning towards Audio Kinesis as well as Audio Note. Problem with AN is how utterly confusing that line is. What is the pricing? Just a mess to understand. I know the speakers sound beautiful. |
The Carbon 7 SE review is up, see here. |
They (Fritz carbon 7 SEs)may sound different and even quite lovely (have not heard) but based on size and specs will be very surprised if these can inherently outperform even the Decapos off just a few watts, particularly in the bass, at higher volumes in particular. Not a match made in heaven at least on paper, but you never know how things will sound exactly until you try. Could still be the cat's meow at modest volumes in particular. |
So here's an interesting development: A few months ago, I got a call from John "Fritz" Heiler of Fritz Speakers in L.A. He and I have spoken on the phone from time to time over the years, starting way back when I had Merlin TSM's. Anyway, he said that he often demo's his new Carbon 7 SE's at shows with a very pricey 300B SET amp, and he wanted to send me a pair of these monitors for review and to see how they performed with my ANK Kit 1. I was skeptical, given that the Carbon 7 SE is rated at a mere 88 dB sensitivity, but Fritz assured me that this was a very conservative rating and reiterated his offer. I agreed and have been living with the Carbon 7 SE's mated to the Kit 1 for about 3 weeks. I'm working on a review and will post it soon on the blog. Should make for some fun reading... ;-) |
I have posted the final installment in my blog series on SET friendly speakers, this one on the do-it-yourself scene. Feel free to check it out. |
My condolences to you, and your family. I, too, just lost my dad, at 91. My mom, is in a place, being taken care of, with Alzheimer's. They were together for 68 years, and, she, amazingly, knows, he is no longer with her. I feel your loss, and pain. And yes, it does put things into perspective, as to, what is most important, in our lives. |
Reb, so sorry to hear that. My most heatrtfelt condolences for you. On the bright side, sounds like she was a marvelous person and mother, and lived a long a productive life. As I'm sure you know but may have not experienced, I'm sure, the spirit of our deceased loved ones remain with us forever. My parents both died in their 70s when I was quite young. But the good news it seems is that their spirit continues to guide and provide us solace no matter what. I'm sure you will find this to be the case as well. |
Everybody, I know this is a bit of an odd place to post this, but since I have spent so much time here over the years conversing with so many of you, I thought I'd just share the sad news that my mom passed away last weekend. She was 92 years old and had Alzheimer's disease. She was married to my dad for 73 years. She was funny, bright, loving, musical and a great baker. She also put in thousands of hours of time visiting hospital patients as a trained pastoral care volunteer. Her memory is a blessing to all of us. I will say that, for all the time we spend discussing this hobby of ours, a loss like this reminds you of what's really most important, and it's not speakers and power cords. Do hug the people you love and tell them you love them! |
I have my STAX SR84 phones up for sale. If they don't sell, I envision keeping them for use with a SET amp someday. Here are the specs: Specifications Earspeaker SR-80 Type Electret/push-pull Frequency Response 25--25,000Hz Impedance 150k ohms/10,000Hz Sensitivity 95dB/100v rms input Maximum Output Sound Level 110dB Continuous Maximum Input 5W(lkHz) Momentary Maximum Input 30W(lkHz) Frequency Response 10~30,000Hz( ± 2.5dB) Distortion Less than 0.02% THD(lkHz/1W) |
Doing a survey of SET speaker options on the blog. Have a look. |
Like a SET, Klipsh or any HE speaker are a unique breed and is not likely to sound its best with the same gear as thw more typical modern speaker fare. Its all about getting good synergy/performance to start with and tweaking the details from there. Many different recipes for this. The ones for unique breeds like SETs and HE speakers will also be unique. So I do not pay any attention to those who merely plop a Heresy into their existing system and expect excellent results. Like a good sports team, you have to identify your "star performers" whatever those are and build around those accordingly over time until you hit the bullseye. |
Although I love my Lascalas, I also, very much, enjoy my Epic CF2s (which to me, are the best of the 4 Epic models ). To each his own. These two Klipsch products are quite different designs, and different sounding (even after modding them), but, they both have the ability to convey "close to live". The KLF series, ime, has box resonance issues, which travels to the front panel and drivers, that unless treated properly, are a bit dirty to listen to. My Lascalas had that problem, but, no more. The Epic cabinets are well designed. Keep in mind, the louder you listen, the box resonances become worse. Although I have owned, and, am very familiar with the Heresy, I never took to them. I believe, the air suspension principal, is the culprit. I have a friend, who's Heresys I modded, and, he loves them. He dreams of my Lascalas. He is a musician, and, might not be an audiophile per say, but he understands what they do well. Interesting that I am not part of the Klipsch forum. But, I am a diehard Klipsch fan, for many years, of many of their models. I have always said, they do more right, than wrong, allowing me to "get into" the music. MrD. |
Roxy, Great to hear from you. I did pick up a Magic Power Cord by Signal Cable (Almarg had recommended these) for my Kit 1, used, from a local audiophile. I like it a lot, but I'm intrigued by your impressions of the Nano Reference. I'll check it out. As for Klipsch, sure, I’m intrigued. I find their current line confusing - there are so many models and I have heard online (which is worth the paper it's printed on, admittedly) that their newer, mass market stuff isn't as good as the vintage, Made In USA stuff. Davidpritchard: Thank you so much for chiming in!! The KLF-20 looks like a winner - a slimmer tower would fit in my room much better than a massive, squat floor-stander. And I've seen KLF-20's for sale on the 'net. The challenge is as I posted above: these things are heavy, few sellers have the original boxes, and thus the sellers aren't willing to ship them. But I'll definitely keep my eye out! |
