Everybody, I deeply appreciate all of your insights! Sebrof, I'd love to get to LSAF but have to work that weekend so I'll be missing it this year. I actually spoke to the fellow from Pi. I've also corresponded a bit with Audiokinesis (Duke) who's located outside of Dallas now and seems like an absolutely stand-up guy.
It's clear to me that if I'm going to make a change, it's got to be on a home trial or a used item where I won't take a huge hit if it's not right. I sense that system synergy is especially crucial with a SET amp so I'd need to be careful. |
Dan,
Thanks for the Tannoy information. I believe that Brian Smith of Audio Note Kits really likes Tannoy and I think he told me at one point that a number of his customers run the ANK SET offerings with Tannoy's, too. I've never spent any quality time with a Tannoy speaker but will try to do so.
Mapman,
I believe that Roxy54 runs his Kit 1 C-Core (the ultra-upgraded model) with Klipsch speakers. What confuses me about Klipsch is that they currently have (seemingly) literally dozens of different models in their lineup, including many that you can buy on Amazon.com. So I can't figure out how to sort through their offerings.
Roxy,
I've never heard of Reaction Audio but just googled their web site and will take a look. Yeah, the Total Eclipse looks amazing! Just over my budget and probably too large for my room.
Leahy,
Very cool information, thank you for mentioning a lot of things I hadn't thought of.
Charles,
Agreed, the Tannoy lineup seems to be all over the map in terms of SET friendliness.
Guppy and Plato,
Wavetouch is interesting. Alex, the owner, actually messaged me some time ago, I guess in response to the whole "Building the ANK Kit 1" thread, and wanted me to try one of his speakers which he said would work much better with my SET than the De Capo's. I know that there are people who love his speakers but they are so odd looking... I just don't know.
Shakey, thanks for the feedback. You still have your Grand Veenas?
Morningstaraudio: I didn't realize that Louis had come out with something new. I'll take a look. |
No, the Omen Mk. II, not the Omen Def!!! The Omen Mk. II retails for $1800 but they've extended the Newport show price of $1500 for a bit. Sorry I confused you with the Omen Def reference. |
Atmasphere:
Thanks a lot for the technical insights.
Charles:
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Almarg:
You always have so much to add to the conversation, thank you. Just to clarify, I do have some size flexibility here. I'm happy to move to a floor-stander and away from a stand-mount, which is why I'd look at Tekton Lore or one of the Omega floor-standers, which are rather boxy but not huge. My only real size limitation is that distance from the wall behind the speakers has its limits; I've only got about 1.5 to 2 feet to play with there.
As for lower end extension, my old Merlin TSM-mmi's were only rated down to 55 Hz, and I found them so lacking in punch and dynamics that I sold them after a couple of years. The De Capo's, rated down to 42 Hz, taught me that I needed a speaker to have at least a decent taste of low-end punch or I'll get bored and the music loses its foundation. Some of the candidates, like the Lore 2.0, are rated to extend quite lower than the De Capo - down to 30 Hz in the case of the Lore 2.0, which should be very satisfying in my room.
Jetrexpro,
Cooling it for awhile and saving up for AN speakers is also an option, certainly. I've only heard AN speakers at the California Audio Show but was extremely impressed with the demo at that time. Of course, Audio Note was fronting that system with multi-kilobuck AN electronics! |
For what it's worth, I hadn't seen this before, but this is Tim Smith's review of the Mini-Lore on the Canadian site Wall Of Sound. He's the same fellow who loved the Coincident Dynamo 34 SE amp. |
Veroman,
Thank you.
I have been on the Audio Nirvana web site and I had a couple of phone conversations with David Dicks, the owner, back when I was considering how to get into SET amps. He has a house-designed, Chinese made 300B amp that goes for something like $1550, delivered (which I'm dying for somebody on Audiogon to buy just so I can find out what it's like at that price)!
Now that I've built a couple of electronics kits, the thought of trying a DIY speaker has definitely occurred to me. In fact, if the ANK Audio Note speaker kits weren't so darn pricey, I'd try one of those.
If I came into a little spare cash, I might very well build a speaker from the Commonsense web site, since the total cost is very reasonable. Exactly which drivers are you using? And did you have someone build the cabs or did you do that yourself? I don't have any woodworking expertise, nor any of the required tools (saws, clamps and so on) so I'd have to factor that in to the cost, as well. |
Sebrof,
Will do... I just need for things to slow down at work so I can escape the office. ;-)
Have you found similarities between the Katz and the Lore, since you've owned both? |
Mikirob,
Thanks.
One more question: How do they fare at lower volumes? Some speakers need to be played loud to "wake up," so to speak. How are the Lores in this regard? |
Rob, thanks for the comment about "refinement." I was wondering about that, too. |
Veroman, thanks a lot for that specific information! |
Saki70,
You know what they say:
"A thread's not a thread until it hits 500 posts."
:-) |
De Capo's are sounding luscious with the Kit 1 these days. I think that the amp continues to settle in. Bass is firming up further and soundstage is huge. Imaging is unreal. Still toying with trying the Lore 2.0's or the Omega Alnico Monitors but only if I can find a way to finance a home trial without selling the De Capo's. Or I may stay put for now. |
Brownsfan,
It's funny that you chime in that this point, because I was thinking the other day that there is some kind of real synergy between the De Capo and 300 B SET amplification. It now makes sense to me that Tash Goka, the head of Reference 3A, recommends one of the Antique Sound Labs 300 B SET amps (which he imports) as a great match with the De Capo. And now, yes, I am remembering that, a long time ago, you said in your comparison that the Coincident Frankenstein sounded pretty great with the De Capo.
Obviously, I cannot compare the the Kit 1 to the Frankenstein 300 B. What I can say is that, while the Kit 1 isn't "cheap" by any means, in the world of high-end audio it's one heck of a great amp at a reasonable asking price. Heck, if you were averse to the do-it-yourself part, you could pay Digital Pete a few hundred dollars to build it for you.
Under those terms it would still be a fine value. |
Charles,
Good question. To be honest, no, there's nothing I miss about the Manley Mahis. At least with my associated equipment, I feel that the Kit 1 betters the Manley's in every way. The Kit 1 is much quieter – it is dead silent even if I turn the volume control all the way up to maximum. Instrumental tone and timbre is miles ahead. (As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was listening to a Joni Mitchell Greatest Hits CD last week and the sound of her voice and the tone of some of the acoustic guitar work was startlingly real.)
As the amp continues to settle in, I have found that low-end response is, surprisingly, at least as good as my old push-pull gear, maybe even a little better. On "Another World," from Joe Jackson's "Night and Day" LP, the big kettle drum whacks have a body to them that I never heard before. Similarly, a few nights ago I was listening to one of my favorite songs from Paul Simon's "So Beautiful or So What" CD. The track "Rewrite," features all sorts of exotic string instruments and percussion, including hits on some kind of very deep sounding talking drum. The energy and authority on those drum hits completely took me by surprise. I think I must have been grinning!
The Kit 1 also has that wonderful ability to present the music as an organic whole, while still giving each component of the music is due without smearing. So, well recorded background vocals sound clean and pure and you can appreciate them both as a unified, harmonic entity while at the same time hearing each voice as its own musical element.
I will give you all one further example.
I own a single Diana Krall CD. I'm not a big fan of hers (no offense to those of you who are) but I bought her CD "When I Look in Your Eyes" a few years ago because I knew that she is an audiophile favorite and wanted to see what the fuss was about.
I can certainly understand why the audiophile crowd loves her. Apart from the quality of the performances (say what you will) the sonics are immaculate.
Anyway, on the opening cut of that CD, "Let's Face the Music and Dance," there is some beautiful (schmaltzy) orchestration that always sounded very pretty on my old amplifiers. But when I listened to that track last night for the very first time on the Kit 1, I was astounded by the presentation. Startlingly, the background went from sounding like "orchestration" to sounding like An Orchestra playing in an auditorium behind the speakers. Now, remember, I have a small, cluttered and fairly acoustically compromised listening room, but I NEVER thought I'd hear music like this in my own home.
So, yeah, you could say I'm happy. ;-) |
Tubegroover,
I hope you get to hear a SET with your De Capo's one day. If you do, let us know what you think. I don't feel like the Kit 1 runs out of gas with them, but only you can tell in your system and with the music you love. Again, I am in a medium-small room, so that certainly helps! :-) |
Charles,
One thing I forgot to mention in the Diana Krall example.
After the instrumental introduction to the title track, "When I Look in Your Eyes," Diana enters, singing. She is singing very softly, her mouth is apparently very, very close to the microphone and she is at the lower limits of her vocal range. I always thought that her pitch sounded somewhat wobbly on those opening notes but with the Kit 1, you can hear just how wobbly her pitch is at that moment. It's kind of an odd example, but it did make me smile and does say something about the resolution and musicality of that amplifier. :-) |
Brownsfan,
I suppose it makes some sense, at least intuitively, that the De Capo's would be particularly sensitive to amplifier topology, since the main driver is coupled directly to the amplifier signal. I'm sure there's more to it than that, but, based upon your experiences, my experiences and the fact that Reference 3A recommends one of the Antique Sound Lab 300 B SET amps, there really is some "magic" with that speaker and this kind of amplifier.
So it makes me think that when looking for a speaker for this kind of amp, it makes some sense to look at brands that are not only high-efficiency and flat impedance, but also otherwise designed with single ended operation in mind. Again, I don't know the physics and engineering of this, but there must be other factors involved in designing a speaker specifically to be "SET friendly."
Almarg, feel free to chime in here. :-) |
Yes, Charles, I now find myself firmly in the "measurements are useful, but how does it actually SOUND" camp. :-) |
Coli and Mrdecibel,
I've thought of Klipsch; the pricing of a lot of their floor-standers is certainly very reasonable by high-end standards. The thing is, I find their line to be so huge and diverse that I can't figure out what to even consider. Amazon carries a ton of Klipsch gear, as does our local Fry's Electronics. |
Roxy,
Texas, not far from Sebrof. |
JWM,
Not so much hot as "steamy." Been getting a lot of rain here and it's been really humid. Good for us because we've been in a drought, but the mosquito situation this summer is going to be intense, I think. :-/ |
Hi, Lak,
I'd never heard of the Von Schweikert db 99, which isn't surprising because according to some research I did, they may not have made more than 200 pairs of them before dropping them from the line-up.
Wow, they are gorgeous - you are lucky to have them. And the reviews are ecstatic! There's a guy on Audio Circle selling a pair right now for $5500, I think. Unless he's REALLY desperate to sell, I don't think we can come to a deal.
:-D
But thanks again for the interesting information! |
Can any of you folks attest to the sonic differences between the various Tekton Lore flavors:
Lore Reference
Lore 2.0
Lore
M-Lore
S-Lore
I had the opportunity to borrow a pair of the Lore Reference for about a week and run it in my own system, so now I have a pretty good idea how it sounds. What I'm trying to figure out is how all the different iterations of the Lore differ from one another, hence my question here. I've corresponded with Eric about this a few times but would still love the opinions of users who've heard some of these different speakers side by side. |
Charles,
Well, after three years of ownership, my De Capo's are now up for sale on Audiogon (and elsewhere)!
The Lore Reference is a VERY different speaker than the De Capo. It's not that the De Capo doesn't sound fabulous with the Kit 1 - it does, especially since I added the vintage 6SN7 and a Signal Cable power cord (thanks to Roxy and Almarg for those tips!)
The De Capo's are so much about finesse - astonishing imaging, coherence, resolution, etc. The Lore Reference is more about dynamics and expansiveness. With the Lore Reference, the Kit 1 sounds more relaxed and it plays far "bigger" than 8 watts! Really, I have discovered that a higher efficiency speaker makes the Kit 1 sound like a monster!
:-D
And of course, the Lore Reference digs deeper than the De Capo (although for its size, the De Capo is no slouch in that department, either), making music sound more fleshed out. I must say that I was surprised and impressed at how well controlled the bass on the Lore Ref was. Interestingly, it uses a smaller, Eminence designed, 8-inch main driver, as opposed to the big, bass guitar driver on the standard Lore and Lore 2.0.
Both speakers throw a large soundstage, but of a different quality. The Lore Reference is more room filling, the De Capo more holographic. I will say that I found the Lore Ref's imaging a little vague compared to the De Capo, but that may be a placement fine tuning thing, too.
So while I'm not 100% sure that I'm going with Tekton, I am convinced that there are benefits to moving on to a substantially more efficient and easy to drive speaker. I am considering a number of options, depending upon what I get for the sale of the De Capo's.
Interestingly, the fellow who lent me the Lore Ref's felt that, in contrast to Eric at Tekton, the Lore or Lore 2.0 would be too large for my room. Hmm...
I'll keep y'all posted!
By the way, if any of you have heard the various flavors of the Lore side by side and can comment on similarities and differences, I'd love to hear them, because Tekton's web site isn't much help in this regard. At last count, you have a choice of:
Lore
Lore 2.0
M-Lore
S-Lore
Lore Reference |
Jet,
Thank you very much for the tip. Those Audio Note speakers look like a great deal. But I have to wait until my De Capo's sell to purchase anything else, and I would guess that those Audio Notes will be gone by then. :-(
But I will definitely keep an eye on them!
As for the Coincident's, yes, I would say that they are VERY aspirational. ;-) |
Rob,
My budget is whatever I can get for the De Capo's! (Seriously.) I've got nothing else to throw at this other than what they sell for. Now if someone wants the stands, too, that may help. They're the Osiris stands by the long defunct Audionics. Probably one of the best 24" stands ever made. So if I get lucky, I'm looking at between $1700 and $2000, give or take.
My room dimensions, FWIW, are actually about 16 x 13 x 8, but due to a slightly odd shape at one end and placement of furniture (it doubles as a guest bedroom) I only have about 11 feet of the long wall to play with. I sit about 9 feet from my ears to the front plane of the speakers. Maybe that makes things clearer.
I don't listen at very loud levels, especially for extended periods. |
|
Rob,
I promise I'm not dithering on all these speaker possibilities just to aggravate you. ;-)
Yes, absolutely, I have read the Zu vs. Tekton thread. Thing is, the Omen Mk. II is just out, and that's two iterations removed from the version being discussed on that thread, IIRC. What's tempting is that Zu offers a 60 day trial (like Tekton) and will pay for return shipping with no restocking fee if you're not happy. I don't know of anybody else who's doing that.
The other thing that got me thinking about Zu is that a reviewer who hangs out on Audio Asylum and the Steve Hoffman Forums mentioned that he has never cared for any Zu speaker until he heard the latest version of the Omen Def, which he loved. That, too, got my attention. |
Hey, Folks,
I find this conversation fascinating and appreciate all of your input.
Tubegroover, I love my Kit 1 and am sold on the SET "thing." It sounds more like music and gives me more pleasure than any other amp I've owned, including a Unison Unico hybrid, a Bel Canto Class D amp, and a pair of Manley push-pull mono-blocks. That isn't to say that any of these amps was bad by any stretch, but the Kit 1 made me smile and say "ah" like none of the others, if that makes any sense.
Now I am in an interesting position in terms of musical genres. I listen to a little bit of everything. I'm not a huge jazz buff but I played trumpet in high school and have a fondness for some big band jazz as in Maynard, may he rest in peace). I am not a huge classical aficionado, either, but one of my favorite CD's is a big orchestral music soundtrack that HAS to sound great or I get grumpy. ;-) I'm not a huge techno fan or electronica fan but my teenager turned me on to Lorde and the synth bass "bombs" have to sound convincing. I'm not hugely devoted to raucous, hard rock, but when I play The Eagles' "Victim of Love" or Sheryl Crowe's "If It Makes You Happy," I want the guitars to sound as grungy as the recording engineer intended. And while I don't have huge piles of "girl with guitar" music, when I DO listen to Joni Mitchell or Ingrid Michaelson, I want to be transported to girl with guitar land.
You get the idea.
What I discovered with the Tekton Lore Reference is that it gives the Kit 1 the breathing room to "go big," really big, when the need arises, in a way that the De Capo's, as marvelous as they are, do not with this amp. I've also never had a speaker in my home that at least began to bump up against the bottom octave as the Tekton did, and found that to add a lot to the overall presentation. My only hesitations with the Tekton were:
* I found the imaging to be a little vague, and I'm kind of an imaging and sound stage freak (so sue me, as they say...) ;-) Of of course, some of that may be a positioning issue which, since I was borrowing them, I didn't really have the chance to dial in.
* I found that the Lore Reference needed to be "cranked" a little more than I'd like to really sing.
* Eric told me that the Lore and Lore 2.0 aren't as "refined" as the Reference, but that the Lore is much better at lower volumes. So, there's that old "tradeoff" thing again...
And as for your question about orchestral music, I will say that with the added breathing room that the more efficient Tekton's afforded the Kit 1, orchestral music sounded quite convincing. I don't mean first row at the symphony convincing, but "yeah, that’s what an orchestra in a big hall would actually sound like" convincing.
What's fun about this stage of system building is that there are so many choices out there, even discounting those I cannot afford:
There's Tekton (and the 7 or 8 speakers in my budget that they offer)
There's Zu Omen Mk. II
There's the Omega Super 7 XRS or (if I can swing the $) Super Alnico Monitor
There's Used Audio Note - there's one on Audiogon right now for $1500 but it looks like it's a little beaten up
And, if I really want to get freaky, there's Blumenstein Deluxe Orca with a matching sub or two...
So, we'll see. |
Mapman,
You've always said you wanted to see how De Capo's stack up against your Triangle's. I know where you can get a nice pair. ;-)
Oh, and by the way I think you and Charles might want to settle this whole "SET limitations" thing via a gentlemanly arm wrestling match. Or, better yet, you could play "catch" with his Coincident Frankenstein mono-blocks and the first one who drops one has to shut up about SET limitations.
Or something. |
I'm loving learning from you folks. :-)
And remember Rebbi's Rule (TM): "A thread ain't a thread until it's hit 500 posts."
:-D |
Map,
Yeah, they were REALLY something. If I could get a huge price break from Brian of ANK, I'd jump at the opportunity to build one of the kits. But he buys those direct from AN UK, and by the time they are shipped and imported I don't think he has much wiggle room on price. :-/ |
Hi, Guys,
People seem interested in my impressions of the Lore Reference, so I'm happy to oblige.
I wasn't super impressed with them when I first connected them. The sound seemed stuck to the speakers and I kind of got this "home theater" vibe. Of course, this was with my friend staring at me expectantly with that "Well? Well?!" look on his face, so it was a little hard to concentrate.
I proceeded to play with toe-in and placement and things got a lot better. With some more pronounced toe-in and adjustment of distance between the Lores, the sound stage became large and immersive. The disappearing act wasn't quite as complete as what I'm used to with the De Capo's, but again, perhaps with more precise placement...
Additionally, the presentation of the Lores and the De Capo's is quite different. The Lore Reference seemed to splash the soundstage all over the front wall. The De Capo's tend to present a deeper, more layered presentation. This is admittedly hard to describe in words.
Instrumental and vocal tonality seemed very good with the speakers a little more dialed in to position. I remember being particularly impressed with the rendering of a tenor sax solo - sorry, I can't remember the track, but it really sounded like a saxophone in full bloom. I this regard I'd describe the Lore Reference as "exciting" speakers to listen to, and I'd describe the De Capo's as more "nuanced."
There were 3 main things about the Lore Reference speakers that, in my 5 or 6 days with them, I came to appreciate. One was that they could "go big" in a way that the De Capo's don't; this is not surprising since they are substantially larger and more efficient than the De Capo's. They seemed to liberate the Kit 1 and help it to sound like some kind of monster amp, allowing those huge output trannies to strut their stuff. For example, on one of my favorite CD's, an orchestral movie soundtrack, they presented the orchestra in a very "big" and convincing fashion.
Second, having a speaker in the room that at least bumps up against the bottom octave is great. And this richness extends into voices as well, bringing substance to alto and bass voices in background vocals very nicely.
Third, as already mentioned, the Lore Reference nailed some instrument tones and textures in a very convincing way. I was particularly impressed with how well controlled the bass was.
Three things about them gave me pause, though:
As I've mentioned, I found the imaging a bit vague. I also noticed that - as opposed to my De Capo's, which present a very stable image, images with the Lore Reference tended to shift noticeably when I moved my head to the left or right. Again and yet again, this may be a placement issue but it was troubling to me.
Second, they needed to be turned up to a decent volume level to sound fully "awake." I asked Eric about this and he told me that while the Lore Reference is more refined than the Lore or Lore 2.0, the Lore and Lore 2.0 sound much better at lower volumes.
Third, I am not certain that they are as refined and resolving as the De Capo's. I literally mean "not certain," as in, "I just don't know." I'd need more time with them.
No matter which speaker I ultimately choose, I'd give the Lore Reference credit for having motivated me to part with my De Capo's. I was pretty blown away by how big and exciting my SET could sound.
I recognize that at my price level, there will be compromises. I had always thought of my self as a "nuance" guy more than a "dynamics" guy, but I found the latter surprisingly compelling, which is why one or another Tekton model is still on my list of possibilities. I also recognize that all the speakers I'm considering provide a trial period, and I'm prepared for some trial and error in getting where I ultimately want to be.
I hope this helps. My De Capo's just sold and so I'm now in a better position to see what I can afford. I'll keep you posted. |
Jet -
Hey! :-) My soldering gun wielding DIY guru! :-D
I have only heard AN speakers once, at the California Audio Show in the AN room a few years ago, and it was my favorite room! The only room, in fact, that I kept returning to. The dynamics and "realness" of the music pouring out of those puppies was addictive. Of course, AN had them paired with all manner of hyper-expensive AN electronics, but the bottom line was that the sound that day was dreamy.
I don't think I can make a valid comparison with the Lore Reference because it's been too long and I don't trust my sonic memory that far. But if I could afford any current AN speaker I'd jump in a heartbeat, believe me. My only concern is that corner placement's not possible in my current room. |
Tubegroover,
Thanks a lot for the nice comments. I appreciate it.
SMcTigue,
I suspect that a great deal of this is, in fact, about the synergy between a particular amplifier and a particular speaker. There are so many variables here, including one's room acoustics, listening habits and preferred musical material. It's been said a million times, but what floats one person's boat may not do anything for another person. I still think the De Capo's are fabulous and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to others.
Mapman,
Your question about whether I feel differently now about the quality of the Manley Mahi mono-blocks that I used to have is an interesting and useful one. Here's what I would say:
I would say that I have experienced 2 realizations in the course of my equipment changes over the past few months.
The first one is that I love SET amplification. Paired with my Reference 3A's, The Kit 1 smokes the Manley Mahi's in all of the audio parameters that I find the most compelling, personally: tonality, sound staging, imaging and above all, coherence, that sense that I am getting a complete sonic picture that is not chopped up into pieces; a "performance," if you will. Once I heard the kind of music that poured out of the Kit 1, there was no turning back to my old amplifiers. In this regard, I find myself in league with Charles and the Tribe of SET. :-)
The second realization came from listening to the Tekton Lore Reference. As I mentioned previously, I had absolutely no idea that the Kit 1 could sound as big and powerful and, above all, "relaxed" as it did through those Tekton speakers. It opened my eyes to the wisdom of pairing the Kit 1 – or any low powered SET amp – with a more efficient and easy to drive design. That was a real game changer for me and I am grateful to the fellow who lent me his Lore Reference.
Let me make it clear that I still do not believe that the Reference 3A and the Kit 1 are a poor match! I was listening to some Steely Dan last night and stayed up way too late because it sounded so good. But, on the other hand, my experience with the Lore Reference has taught me that the Kit 1 can deliver a bigger, "beefier" and more dynamic presentation than I have been getting with the De Capo. And I learned that I like those qualities more than I realized.
Rob,
Life is short and I don't take these things personally, but I think your use of the word "disingenuous" is a little harsh. In any event, I'm guessing your judgment may have to do with the fact that I sent you a pretty ecstatic personal message after living with the Lore Reference for a few days. I praised their musicality, their large and engulfing soundstage and their ability to dig deeper than the Reference 3A De Capo. That was how I felt about them at that time. "Wow, this is so amazing! These things cream the De Capo's in every way!"
As I'm sure many of us have experienced in the past, it's not unusual in this hobby to make a change and get very excited about something, labeling it as "better." Sometimes, with more experience, we realize that what seemed at first "better" is more "different:" perhaps more pleasing in some ways and not as pleasing in others.
I think that is what, in retrospect, tempered my original, effusive reaction. As a beloved (and sadly no longer with us) graduate school professor of mine used to like to say, "Every situation has the advantages of its deficiencies and the deficiencies of its advantages." There are always trade-offs, and I suspect that is true even if you have the financial wherewithal to throw tens of thousands of dollars at this hobby.
Based on my limited exposure, with my equipment in my room and reflecting my own listening biases and priorities, I believe that the Lore Reference is a terrific bargain and that it does a lot of things – tone, dynamics, low end slam and retrieval of musical information – extraordinarily well. That is to say, it is great in many ways. The Reference 3A De Capo is also great in many ways and deservedly regarded by many as a classic design, but its greatness lies in different areas: resolution at lower volume levels, pinpoint imaging and that elusive quality of "coherence." I don't find myself in a position, at this point, of saying that one is better than the other in every way. YMMV, as they say.
Everyone enjoys being agreed with completely and sometimes we find it aggravating when people don't see things our way. That's not evil – it's just human. I also note that I like making decisions in a slow, thoughtful and deliberate manner and I like sharing my thought processes with other people. I am not looking to troll or bait anyone.
I will close this lengthy comment with one, additional example. I owned a pair of Merlin TSM-mmi monitors for about 18 months. There are many, many fans of Bobby P. and his products. It is not hard to find people who believe that the TSM is the apotheosis of stand mounted speakers. I think Bobby is one of the greatest people in high-end audio – a truly fine and delightful human being. But in the end, the TSM just didn't do it for me. Were I to list the reasons that I eventually sold them, people who revere Merlin would be eager to jump in and tell me all the reasons I was mistaken. What can you do? Ultimately, your system has to please you – it's that simple. |
Jet,
Right now, there is actually a fellow here on audiogon who is selling a pair of Audio Note AN-E/SP's. They come with Audio Note stands and sell for $1500!
I sent the link to Brian at Audio Note Kits. He confirmed that these are an older version of the speaker, back from when they used chipboard cabinets. He also said that this is the "94 dB" version, which he said he does not recommend for the Kit 1. He prefers the "98 dB" version. That's the only reason I haven't taken a stab at them – plus my impression is that they are fairly beaten up.
As I said, I would love to build one of the kit versions of that speaker, but I don't think you can get into that for under $4000, and that's without a special stand.
By the way, are you using corner placement with yours? I have heard conflicting reports about how crucial that actually is. |
Charles,
Whatever I go with on this round, I think I will keep my eyes peeled for a used pair of AN E's. It's unfortunate that they are so pricey, but what can you do? |
Here's a question:
Do any of you SET users think that running at SET with a subwoofer necessarily compromises the best SET qualities? |
Saki70,
Hi. Thanks for the tip about the AN-J. It would probably be perfect for my needs, but the AN stuff is still so gosh darn expensive, or at least out of my budget. But thanks for pointing them out to me. One more AN model to keep an eye out for, used.
Mapman and Brownsfan,
I'm not so sure using a sub with a SET is heresy, although I can understand why it might seem so, supplementing a purist amp with a sub.
But a number of manufacturers of SET- friendly single-driver speakers, including Omega and Blumenstein, make matching subwoofers to go with their full range speakers.
I also think that some people whose rooms don't accommodate floor standers very well find that a monitor + sub configuration does very well. As Charles said, there are multiple methodologies for feline taxidermy.
Snopro,
Yes, I've heard from multiple sources that adding a sub does good things for sound staging. |
Hey, Rob,
Thanks for the post.
I looked at those AN-E's and asked Brian at ANK about them. He confirmed that they are an old version of the "94 dB" model and he doesn't really recommend them with the Kit 1. The AN-E Kits he sells, by contrast, are all the "98 dB" version with the hemp cone drivers, but you can't touch those for less than $3600 with stands. It's a pity! I have actually corresponded with the seller of those speakers when I was trying to establish their "vintage." He doesn't know how old they are because he bought them second hand.
Another interesting used possibility is the pair of Tonian Labs TL-D1 Mk. III SE's on sale for $1500. Reviews of earlier models are very good. I corresponded with Tony at Tonian. It seems like those were one-off speakers made with a Fostex driver that is no longer available. He is now building the D1 with a NOS Philips driver that he says is much better, but it goes for $2500.
At this point, I am leaning toward only buying something that I can audition first, unless it's an AN speaker, which I think would be much more of a safe bet. |
Rob,
Yes, I think the summer time is slow. My De Capo's sat there for about 2 weeks before I really got any nibbles, and they were also listed on eBay, US Audiomart and Audio Circle! Sheesh!
Are you familiar with hifishark.com? It's a web site that aggregates used audio equipment sales from fifteen different web sites all over the world. I check there regularly.
I will keep checking for AN-E's used. In the meantime, I'm having fun doing my alternative speaker research. |
Grannyring,
I'd looked at Sonist, but their prices have really shot up. Their smallest monitor is over $3000 at this point, IIRC. Seems they have beautiful workmanship, though. |
Grannyring:
A speaker time share! Excellent!! :-D |
You guys are making me want to check out Klipsch! :-)
For what it's worth, Brian of ANK is a big fan of pairing the Kit 1 with vintage speakers from the '80's like Altec, etc.
My only problem with going the vintage route is that a lot of the suitable speakers of that era are physically too huge for my spacecraft and would cost a fortune to ship (I'm talking Cornwall's, La Scala's, Altec 19's, etc.).
Now Heresy's might work and I know of some for sale locally that I'm wondering if the seller would let me demo at home. |
And what about the Heresy, paired with a sub, maybe? What do your Klipsch-o-philes think of the Heresy? |
Everybody,
I know this is a bit of an odd place to post this, but since I have spent so much time here over the years conversing with so many of you, I thought I'd just share the sad news that my mom passed away last weekend. She was 92 years old and had Alzheimer's disease. She was married to my dad for 73 years. She was funny, bright, loving, musical and a great baker. She also put in thousands of hours of time visiting hospital patients as a trained pastoral care volunteer.
Her memory is a blessing to all of us.
I will say that, for all the time we spend discussing this hobby of ours, a loss like this reminds you of what's really most important, and it's not speakers and power cords.
Do hug the people you love and tell them you love them! |
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I cannot express how comforting your words and kind good wishes are. This time of loss and grieving is simultaneously very painful and very beautiful. Blessings to all of you. |
Doing a survey of SET speaker options on the blog. Have a look. |
I have posted the final installment in my blog series on SET friendly speakers, this one on the do-it-yourself scene. Feel free to check it out. |
