Hi-Fi and the Folly of Perfection

@mahler123

Thank you!

Have you seen “Midnight in Paris”? This is such a common thing, thinking back and remembering the whole experience and thinking it was the, in this case, the stereo. The equipment of today is simply stunning in compared to the stuff back then.

I occasionally test my memories like you did… I have listened to some old stuff I was nostalgic about and instantly was rewarded by the realization that todays technology are truly advancements.

Another thread started by a Geezer ruminating that even though his first system from his early days had a small price tag, it gave him more pleasure than the megabucks systems he now uses.

   I used to wonder about that until I actually resurrected a close facsimile of my system from circa 1977.  No doubt some of the components were deteriorated from age, but it sounded like such junk compared even to my current midfi systems, let alone crown jewels.  When we are younger and are pains  are being formed the sense of pleasure measures with greater intensity.  We probably spent our later years trying to reproduce the intensity of that feeling

@grauerbar said: How much is one’s endless quest for audio perfection (a quest I adore and wouldn’t give up for anything) actually a quest to listen again with the ears of that young man diligently respooling mangles cassettes with a pencil and a lot of patience?

This statement had me reminiscing about the days of cleaning tape heads and transport wheels with q-tips and denatured alcohol, meticulously cleaning my stylus with a specialized brush and looking around my apartment and realizing that every non-porous surface in the place had a quarter inch of dust except the audio rack and loudspeaker tops which were pristine and spotless. I wonder if it’s actually the ritualistic tasks of equipment and media maintenance that I miss?

@danoroo You open a whole other can of interesting worms. I think there is definitely a degree to which we listen with our eyes. Listen to a set-up where the hi fi rack is perfectly centered between the speakers as opposed to one where it's not and a pound to a penny the sound stage will "appear" (loaded word) more securely focussed.

@cd318  I understand completely.  Since I've been afflicted with audiophilia, me seeing wall art that is anything but perfectly level, is akin to having a severe itch at a place you just can't quite reach. :-)

@danoroo 

You're not the only one.

Just yesterday whilst doing the late Christmas shop I was telling my daughter just how much the rippled label on the honey jar was bothering me.

Unfortunately all of the jars had labels with that same rippled effect.

Now it could have been the intensity of the last minute shop and hoping that you can get everything essential on the list or it could have been a joke.

Or maybe I'm a little sick too.

Anyway, a couple of hours of listening to Christmas compilations seems to have helped with psychological readaptation.

For now.

I often find myself obsessing over visual symmetry rather than sound.  Things like, "Is the toe-in on both my speakers identical?", or "It looks as if that left speaker might be an inch farther away from my seating position that the right one.".  I am a sick person!

@jengelmann

I have also crossed into the stage of less critical listening and more enjoyable listening.

That elusive peace of mind probably what we’re all looking for.

I have read here of people who say that their system is ’good enough’ and that after a period of some years they no longer actively seek ’upgrades’.

That elusive feeling of being content with your system must also bring with it a sense of considerable relief.

In my own case I’d say that I’m 80% there and that I’d probably be happy to stop at 90 before things get stupidly difficult and expensive.

Barring a major, seismic technological advance, that’s as far as I’m liable to get anytime soon.

Unfortunately for me, even at this theoretical 80%, I can still regularly hear things wrong with my system. These are mainly audible in the time domain, particularly in the midbass when the music gets ’busy’.

Strangely enough, I don’t have any of these niggling problems with my car system whilst I’m driving.

Perhaps the driving itself is enough of a distraction in itself?

In the same way you might not worry about a lack of height/ too much height/ lack of hair/ too much hair/ being too young/ too old/ overweight/ underweight etc etc when you’re in good company.

Perhaps it’s because during those relatively carefree periods one’s mental landscape is temporarily transformed into a pleasant place to inhabit?

Or maybe it’s simply that’s just because my car system is relatively unambitious. It has no pretensions of sounding ’lifelike’ in scale and depth, and certainly none of any real world bass, but then again it also has no timing issues either.

Paul Gambaccini still sounds reassuringly like the Paul Gambaccini that I’m familiar with on Radio 2s Pick of the Pops.

As mentioned or alluded to above, we have the ability to mitigate desire and/or enjoy the process. As they say, perfection is the enemy of the good.

My daily search for intelligent life often begins with this forum.

It’s been a pretty good start to a Monday morning. So far.

Thanks for the posts.

@sns Our journey and listening experiences seemed shared. I have also crossed into the stage of less critical listening and more enjoyable listening. Occasionally still listen critically and contemplate upgrades to address the minor improvements that could improve sound quality in specific areas. However, satisfied with what I hear. 

@grauerbar good post!

Probably the desire to go back to these golden moments of the past gets transformed into some people‘s audiophile journey. Covering the inability to get back there with an ongoing quest to improve, which is naturally futile.

There was a New Yorker cartoon with a guy reaching a mountaintop. The guru sitting there says something like „What? No, I‘m just here for the view.“ I like that a lot. There is only now. And striving for complete bliss is as pointless as time travel to a former self. Both are possible to a certain degree only and we have to deal with it. And for me the best way of dealing with it is to accept that this is ok, that desire does not fulfill me and to keep away from distractions.
Sure I can‘t turn off nostalgia completely and get transported back to earlier times when I‘m listening to music from back then. But there‘s so much great (new!) music out there that mirrors my current mindset, which is just different. It‘s a pleasure to discover and find that sweet spot where music allows me to be in the now. And the gear is the tool to help with that. 

Some people are more into the music.  Some are more into the gear.  

@whart Thanks for the book recommendation. I know Austin, well. That's where I did my doctorate. Bought my Adcom stuff at Audio Systems on Koenig.

I know that, without question, the sound I hear coming from my speakers today is "better" in all sorts of ways than what I heard back in the 80's. But I do, in my more self-analytic moments, wonder if "better" is, well, better. How much is one's endless quest for audio perfection (a quest I adore and wouldn't give up for anything) actually a quest to listen again with the ears of that young man diligently respooling mangles cassettes with a pencil and a lot of patience?

I wonder if anyone else indulges in such lugubrious ruminations?

That reminded me of a Stephen Fry anecdote my friend Mike told me he had read.

Apparently in Fry's autobiography (the fry chronicles) he recalls the time he was able to finally afford a top notch separates system after achieving success on British TV and was surprised to find he had similar feelings to yours, a strange sense of disappointment.

He also 'knew' his Arcam based system was 'far better' than the one he had in sixth form at school and yet... something essential was obviously lacking.

In my own case I had a similar feeling for many years too.
For years and years I found that no subsequent system could equal the sheer pleasure I experienced from my original all in one music centre.

It was only when I got my Tannoy Berkeley's, about 10 years ago, that this feeling finally lessened somewhat, but not entirely.

Of course we were all younger then and everything was brand new but there might be something else here too.

Something to do with audio systems and their ambitions?

My first system was not ambitious at all. It featured a basic BSR turntable, a 10 Watt amp and a pair of simple 2 way speakers, and yet, within it's limited constraints (it was almost all midrange based) it hardly put a foot wrong.

Most importantly, it was tonally right.

Subsequent systems all grew successively more ambitious in image size, scale and bandwidth, but none quite recaptured that near perfect midrange.

I also remember reading a review of Siegfried Linkwitz's LX521s where a friend of his remarked that, despite the grandiosity of its ambitions, it took 3/4 iterations of this renowned design before it was finally able to equal the coherence of his tabletop radio.

Perhaps one reason for dissatisfaction is because it's simply far easier to design a good sounding but modest system that's far less ambitious in scope than one which seeks to a achieve 'audio perfection'?

Perhaps the first casualty in the quest for audio perfection is all too often this sense of coherence?

As you said, 'But I do, in my more self-analytic moments, wonder if "better" is, well, better.'

Well, I don't think you're the only one to question what exactly 'better' really means when it comes to audio playback.

Perhaps there should be a Danger Ahead! warning as we prepare to embark on our audiophile journey?

There can be a certain melancholy when you get what you always wanted.  To quote Don Draper -- happiness is that moment before you want more happiness.  Cue up Frank singing "It Was A Very Good Year".

When I was 15, had a cousin that bought new Suzuki 750cc motorcycle and often he would take me for a ride. To have such bike, was a 'dream' for me. Few years later, bought similar sized bike and had a friend who had the exact bike that my cousin have had. Naturally, we swap them and finally I had an opportunity to drive my 'dream' bike. Than, went to see that my cousin to tell him that story...his answer was: 'do you realise now that such dreams are 'biggus dickus' (as Monthy Python guys would say)

Same sensation with first decent car, or piece of hi fi gear. That feeling is hard to ovecome with new 'toys' now, when we are grown up (well, sort of) which is quite understandable. As one becomes wiser, he understands where 'real' values are, no matter how still great the pleasure might be when enjoying 'trivial' things as 'planes, trains and automibiles', or hi fi systems, for that matter...

I don't get the setup portion - there is only one "best" setup.

As far as rumination I find myself lately spending more time listening to my speakers from the '70s.

I liked Lila better of his two books.

@hilde45 - there's a book called The Perfect Wrong Note which is sort of Zen and the art of playing an instrument (in this case, the piano). It advocates learning from mistakes, not by repeatedly practicing to overcome the mistake, but by "going with it" to reach your inner musical soul. Sounds a little hippie-dippy, but it was an enjoyable read for me. 

I suspect that reading Pirzig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance would be perfect for you right now.

We have two sides to our personalities -- a classic/analytical and a romantic/sensual side. The question Pirsig raises is your question -- Why are these sides of us in tension and how to we make them complementary, again. Perhaps you'll like his attempts to answer it.

I get what the OP is describing. My first playback system wasn’t really even a proper hi-fi. It was a suitcase stereo with an RCA jack for a detachable speaker (that latched onto the case). Figure this was early ’60s. I jacked the thing into a musical instrument amp and a PA column and cranked it. I was in bliss! I’m sure in reality it was terrible, but it gave me great joy.

And now, more than 50 years later, after obsessing, tweaking, hauling equipment in and out, various set ups over the years, maybe I’m just trying to recapture the excitement of those early days. It almost has nothing to do with SQ and more to do with the enthusiasm I had as a kid being able to blast "my" music-- early hard rock at the time.

Do you still get excited? Frankly, I go through phases of ambivalence. I’m still interested in the recordings, the history, the players, but there are times when I’m not using the system. And that’s sad, given what it is meant for.

I’ve been kicking around the idea of going back to school for archival practices and library or information science. I have access to a very good university here (UT Austin) where I already teach part-time and if they had the facilities for me to put together a program-- between their archive (Ransom Center) and Information Sciences program, I might do it. I need to keep my head in the game even if I’m not listening as much as I’d like for enjoyment. Maybe it is just a phase- I’ve been through this ennui before. Buying new gear doesn’t do it for me-- I’m pretty happy with what I have, though I may have one more big speaker system in me before they cart me off to the nursing home. Then, it’s Slim Whitman time!

'Lugubrious ruminations' - I like that! 

No, when it comes to sound, I am not at all nostalgic for how sound was when I was younger. I like it better today in every way! I've got separate systems for 2-channel and for headphones, and am very happy with it. 

I have always been drawn by the relentless improvement I have heard at each new component. Well after a few missteps very early on when I young and poor. My journey has been that of being drawn to my system from it’s more and more seductive sound. This has been punctuated by plateaus when all was optimized at a new level and was inclined not to change a thing for five to ten years.

By far the most rewarding has been the last ten years as I have had season tickets to the symphony and my upgrades have been towards a much more natural sound and have been the largest I have ever made. Has really brought together all I have learned in the last fifty years in pursuit of the absolute sound (for me).

@grauerbar  Good post!

I'll admit to similar feelings at certain points in building systems over now nearly thirty years. There were times when the cost in form of funds and audiophile angst seemed excessive for the value of sound quality I was experiencing. In those bad old days, excessive analytical listening mode, having to work too hard to get to music listening mode. Problem was I was looking for perfection with systems  that had far too many defects.

While there were times when I felt like giving up, I persevered, managing to put together subsequent systems that provided far more of the sound qualities I desire. Keeping an audio journal since late 1990's has proven invaluable in that it allowed  an orderly progression in marginal gains towards the system I have today. Without the journal and it's attention to minutiae I'd have likely gone in circles doing the equipment churn thing.

And so now onto more recent times,  I've not had these ruminations for some years now. There was a point where I surpassed a certain plateau in system sound quality that allowed an easy transition from analytical mode to music enjoyment mode with virtually no effort. I still listen in analytical mode for short periods and continue to evolve my system, but I now consistently enter music enjoyment mode easily, even though I may have added new equipment or tweaks.

In my estimation, its reaching this certain plateau that's the difficult part of being an audiophile, once past this easy sailing.

I'd also posit, perhaps digital only systems or concentrating on digital only in systems with both vinyl and digital setups makes the journey more difficult. For me, resolution, transparency rather easy to achieve with digital, getting digital to sound like best quality analog/vinyl was the difficult part.

I'll only say I've finally made it to entirely happy audiophile stage, all the work and angst has paid off!  I realize there's no perfection possible, but my contentment level means this pursuit not all folly.

 Audio Neurosis...seems like there's a few suffering with it here.

Accepting that it's just an attempt to create an illusion doesn't seem to sit well with some members here.

I put on a good LP and get transported by the music, not the cables, fuses and thingies.

Yes, some uber systems are breathtaking, but it's still just boxes creating the same illusion as your own. Trying to put the puzzle together at a reasonable cost is part the hobby.