upend the kids life and build the Bottlehead tube phono kit. I will pitch in $50 IF you go that route….
Good on ya, don’t let anybody rain on the parade
Good on ya, don’t let anybody rain on the parade
Helping a kid out
So long story short I got neighbor kid into audio and to appreciate listening to music on something other than a cheap Bluetooth speaker. He’s pretty young but a good kid, a hard working honest kid. So far he’s accumulated his old mans Dual turntable that I helped him clean up and installed an Ortofon 2M Blue on it, a nice but older Marantz integrated and a pair of Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2 speakers. I hooked him up with a pair of Kimber 8TC speaker cables I had retired a while ago (lol, probably making them the most expensive part of his system). He’s looking to upgrade and I suggested trying out a dedicated phono stage. I’m assuming his budget is in the $200 range and I told his old man I wouldn’t let him buy something stupid. I had no idea the sheer volume of phono stages in this price range on the market. What would you guys and gals suggest? My knee jerk reaction is Schitt Mani and I read a few good things about a Bellari unit but holy cow the choices are infinite. Maybe something a little higher end but used? Extra points if it can be purchased from Amazon but that’s by no means a deal breaker.
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Puffin used 3-400.00 worth EVERY penny.. Read a review or two.. Wonderful with top notch support from the manufacture and the public.. Nice well built.. Great onboard options too.. Parks Puffin.. Resale is close to what you paid. Same with used 3-400.00, it might not have all the latest options. Everything is upgradable for the most part with just firmware. There is a few hardware upgraded you can have done, if I remember correctly. If you're gonna make your own recordings, RtR or Cassette. It sure helps.. Pop reduction, via software, pretty cool some of the options. I paid 400.00 shipping and tax. 50 - 75 dollars for tax and shipping alone NOW.. LOL 200.00 in part, 300.00 in taxes. :-) |
tomic601- The Bottlehead is magnificent and a wonderful idea. I’m just not sure either of us would have the time to assemble it. He’d be learning soldering, woodworking, circuit design and craftsmanship. Things that just aren’t taught anymore. I will seriously consider the viability of this option. mastering92- His ears are good and despite having a knucklehead for an old man (a good friend of mine nonetheless) is a pretty thoughtful kid. I taught him about sound-staging and to listen to textures and details. I taught him to listen to the empty space between things and how different recordings have different effects on the sound. When his parents come over for dinner I let him listen to my setup while the old folks hang out. I gave him a Zeppelin IV album and his ‘friend’ who also happens to be a girl…but definitely isn’t a ‘girlfriend’ listened to the whole thing start to finish. We haven’t done any classical yet, and definitely no jazz…but I did get him to admit he dug a Dave Brubeck album I played so there is hope. With my career, busy life and countless excuses my wife and I never had any children of our own and I honestly was never a big fan of having any around. The older I get however the more gratifying it gets to share some ‘old fashioned’ things with the younger ones who actually seem to give a damn. An increasingly rare commodity nowadays. |
oldhvymec- Agree that the Puffin would be a good fit but I want to keep the budget in the 200 or less range. He does odd jobs around the neighborhood and is also saving up for a car so I know the competition for what his money gets spent on will be fierce. I’m absolutely not above helping him out as he has proven to be both responsible and thankful. I just want him to value the purchase and not get too carried away with gifts from the old guy down the street lol. I’d prefer to be a mentor rather than a benefactor. |
quick search…most probably available on Amazon
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You only reinforce my point that there are literally a hundred options in that price range. It’s difficult to discern which of them are just your average ‘me too’ products and which actually are quality sounding items. I know the Schiit is the easy way out but for myself at least it’s a known quantity and fits the budget as well. I was hoping for some hidden gems to consider that folks had some first hand experience with. Thanks tomic601 for all the input and I may just take you up on your offer of duplicate vinyl…I was thinking about putting together a care package of music as a Christmas present. I only mentioned the Bellari unit as I have heard it mentioned favorably a few times in reviews…plus it looks cool…which is of course also important. I just unearthed a Rothwell Rialto for a teensy bit over budget that would be nice. |
Now having read through the thread I am happy to report your job is much easier than you thought. There really is only one option, the Bottlehead kit. Just reading (studying, and understanding) the description will give the kid a better understanding of hi-fi components than most. It is not that hard, recommended even for first time kit builders and taking no more than an evening or two to build. It does not require any woodworking skills. https://bottlehead.com/product/reduction-1-1-phono-preamplifier-kit/ This kit is a lot simpler than the Dynaco ST400 I built at his age without any help. The Bottlehead kit is way simpler and yet also a much better project and component. In the end he will have spent more than planned but he will have a $1k phono stage for $400 and more importantly he will have acquired an actual asset not a money pit car. Important life skills I should think. If he does this I will not chip in $50 but instead do one better, and send you the Cardas Quad Eutetic rosin core solder to do it right. |
Alright, I’m sold. Bottlehead it is. Agreed that the experience and skill set are worth it all on their own. I’m not sure how ‘handy’ he is and I am certain he’s never even seen a soldering iron. The bragging rights of high end DIY amongst his friends has to be worth a bit also. I’ll bring it up to him and gauge his interest is this type of project. I don’t want to force him into any avenues he’s not totally invested in. Everyone’s gracious donation proposals are really quite moving and enormously appreciated. I have no issue making the project accessible for him monetarily and would enjoy doing so if required…my initial reluctance stems from the desire for him to budget, save, prioritize and appreciate the purchase rather than have it just handed over. You guys and gals really are a fine group and I feel a bit guilty for not taking a larger part in the community over the years. I’ve been a lurker and infrequent commentator for almost a decade. The knowledge base and experience contained here is immeasurable. millercarbon- I’ll keep you posted as your offer is both unique, practical and gracious. |
Something maybe hard to appreciate right now, but he is at a stage of life where something like this phono stage could well be with him a good 10 years or more. The value of a really good phono stage is almost impossible to understand until you hear one. This will instantly be his finest component, something he will only appreciate more and more over time. Next time give him Sinatra-Basie, he will be hooked for sure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GphVjN5NXWA&list=PLdqqv4DQh82uHV5rybL4sFJUAVF5992DP&index=5 |
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I second the bottle head. I’ve never heard of anything less that stellar come from those guys. However, if the guy is not up to that type of effort in learning to solder and assemble, the schiit mani really is a very good alternative to onboard phono stages. It’s clean and clear. It won’t give the greatest tone or the boldest sound but it really does a very good job of passing along a clean and full sounding signal. Not great for MC but gets the job done pretty darn well for MM. I’m still putting off getting a new one because my mani actually does sound good. Good job on the Elac though. Those are some damn fine sounding speakers for the price. Glad to see folks passing on the hobby. It’s a very rewarding one once a fella knows what it can offer. |
This thread is a breathe of fresh air. Yes, it is satisfying when you have the opportunity the mentor a young person. It is great you are taking the time to do this. The bottlehead sounds like a great project and it has got to sound great. Make sure to spend some time looking at some videos on the art of soldering. There are clearly right and wrong ways to do this--you may even find some tips on line regarding the build of this particular unit. If for some reason this project doesn't come to fruition, I can give a thumbs up on the Bellari. I am listening to it right now for the last 2 hours. I use it in a headphone based system for early morning listening. It drives my Sennheiser HD660s with ease sourced from a Project table with an Ortofon Super OM20e cartridge. Picked up a couple of premium tubes to have a little fun with inexpensive tube rolling. I love this little system. Very musical, smooth yet detailed, invites you to listen for hours. You can also upgrade the PS if you want. You can't go wrong for the price and I wonder if it is not a bit more "fun" than the Mani. |
Wonderful thread for sure. I wish I had a mentor to inspire my love for audio but I guess I had the next best thing, a local dealer who would actually guide you along the audio path. But I digress. It’s a great thing your doing for that kid and it seems he appreciates it or he probably wouldn’t be listening to your system when he’s over. The help everyone on Audiogonnis is giving, whether cash, experience or solder, ( nice of you MC), is priceless. Good luck with your build and keep us informed on its progress. |
I just have to ask. Is the young fellow (In point of fact). "So inclined", to do all that is required and involved with the gift of an "Electronic parts kit"? I ask because many, "Nearly all", seem suddenly bewildered when I bring up the fact that it is possible to build things of this sort yourself. Just think of ALL the new tasks needed (Including soldering) to follow this through to completion. And also, simply the cost of all the, "Ancillary" items, I.E. "Solder, liquid flux, flux brushes, paste flux, de-soldering wick, flux cleaner, and on and on and on... None are free. A decent, but "tiny", tin of "Tip conditioner", will set you back, ($20) now. So it, "May" be quite daunting to him. I know that as a young, detail oriented "perfectionist" myself. It was VERY daunting to me long ago.... What I have mentioned above is but, the tip of the iceberg too! And anyone whom brings up a "($20) kit from Ebay" of the items mentioned above for a build? Remember one of the rules I have heard so often here; "Crap in, Crap out". Because I believe that could be applied here. Anyway, If he "is" into it? GREAT! But if he's not.... OR, If for any other reason a "kit" does not work out? Contact me. I may have a few things, "Laying around'. That he may be interested in. Hey, If we all start just giving stuff away? "Audiogon" will see an uptick in new members too! I will mention though, that the "Powers that be" here became more than a bit confused when I simply, "gave" someone here that was just starting out a set of gear, "preamp and amp" for free. "I did have the Lad pay the shipping fee's though, ($450)"! Well, most of it anyway... |
ecterrel-
This whole thread was worth it for the comment from Miller carbon! The Basie Sinatra album. Damn! That’s cool. I’m on it. I checked it out and must have a copy on wax! Thanks MC. You’re the man My pleasure. Francis A and Edward K is another good one but Sinatra-Basie is just awe-inspiring, the most swinging swing I ever heard. Fantastic recording too. Played it for the group at Chuxpona, it was the only record we listened to a whole side, and could easily have played side 2 as well. More than one has told me it is the best recording he ever heard. Granted mine is a Hot Stamper, and if you can find one of those it will be worth the wait (and the money, they are not cheap!). https://better-records.com/products/sinatfranc_2103?_pos=8&_sid=5c80a2d93&_ss=r |
jollygreenaudiophile2- I totally agree on the potentially overwhelming nature of the kit assembly process. It wasn’t lost on me the amount of skills required to do it justice. That being said, I’m definitely ‘all in’ if he is. I’ve been a hobbyist of many things over the years from model trains to hot rods and have a small workshop where we would have all the necessary items to build it. The Bottlehead route is an inspiring one for sure. Something I never would have considered had Tomic not made me aware of them. I personally love the idea of imparting these skills and investing the time into building something that will last…who knows, after I’m long gone it could turn up on some vintage audio website as a rare anomaly of a bygone era when people actually used to build things. I rarely see him during the week now that the world is getting back up to speed so I will run all these options by him when we meet up next. I’ve decided to cap any financial input from him at $200, any additional parts, tools or labor above and beyond that I’ll cover. I had a quick chat with his old man to make sure I wouldn’t be stepping on any toes. On another note and my apologies for being off topic, but I can’t believe how good that little system sounds all on its own…(must be the speaker wire). The Dual must have a million miles on it but a little TLC and a new cart has it playing like new and those little Elacs are awesome for the money. I will keep everyone apprised of the situation especially since this thread has somewhat taken on a life of its own. Many thanks for everyone and their gracious offers, let’s keep the conversation going! |
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The skills are nowhere near overwhelming. Take a look at a solid state amp like the Dynaco ST400. If it isn't at least ten times the parts I will be shocked. And I built that at his age. By myself. Totally by myself. Hasten to add, no internet back then. When I say by myself, I mean by myself! This Bottlehead, all there is, roughly a dozen caps, about that many resistors- you can see the whole thing right here https://bottlehead.com/product/reduction-1-1-phono-preamplifier-kit/ Can be done in an evening or two- it is just not that hard! Soldering, within a couple tries he will have that down pat. The solder flows towards the heat. Don't drip blobs. Hold the iron on the part until it gets hot enough to make the solder flow into the joint. Couple tries he will have it down pat. Just not that hard. If you like the way it sounds now just wait till you hear it with this phono stage. The kid will freak. You will freak. Seriously. So totally worth it. Overwhelming. Don't make me laugh. |
Easy does it Millercarbon, I never said it WAS overwhelming, just potentially so for a young kid with a life outside of audio. When I was his age was a long time ago and very different. There were a lot fewer distractions. I am (was) an engineer by trade and fully capable of assembling this kit with him and have done similar projects across many different hobbies countless times in the past. My relationship with him is currently very good and I don’t want to impose myself or my enthusiasm on him. He doesn’t need another old man nor am I qualified to be one. My intent is to let him steer the ship and to explore this hobby with him as he sees fit. Spending a few evenings in my garage putting together a kit may sound good to him or maybe not. It may be the best audio component he’ll own for a while or it may not. Those are all decisions I respect him enough to make on his own. Right now it’s just a kid listening to records on an old Dual in his basement with his ‘not girlfriend’ and enjoying every moment of it. How many of us would love to be back then or there when life was so damn simple? |
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