So many choices, so many recommendations. My opinion will be different than others. The Pass and Bryston should make a great combination. The Brystons have been reviewed as analytical or bright, I don't know.... most have been beyond my price point. Your hearing, at 65 and ex military, you may or may not be able to hear much above 12-15K. The Martin Logans will be on the bright side, I have a pair of Clarities. I'm 70 so the MLs compensate for my hearing loss in the highest registers. I also use Magnepans, they are, an all day speaker if you will, never fatiguing to my ears. You should be able to hear any of the recommended speakers somewhere near you. When trying out speakers take your own CD's, music you are familiar with, preferable music you have heard live from the artist. The great speaker demos are records and CD's that show off the best of a speaker, and can show off the worst, just don't let the dealer use only their recordings.
Help in putting together my system with used equipment on Audiogon and eBay.
I’m looking for the best bang for the buck. What equipment can I find that would make the best system for my budget ($8000)? I'm starting out with:
Pass Labs X1 Preamp, my rock to start with. I got it for $2500 This is where you can help me the most. Let me know your best match for this pre-amp, or the ones you have found to be the best you have heard!
Bryston 4B SST amp for about $1700. It’s been my experience that more power wakes up a speaker and pins it’s ears back. At 300wpc and the reviews on this amp I picked it, but just to start. I really need some experienced people to give me recommendations for the amp, or if the Bryston is a winner. I can sell this for a better amp.
Do I need a DAC?
Phono. I’ve realized that might be a big reason why people go to separates isn’t it? I’d like to hear some comments on this. If you have separates and no phono, what do you use? Stream music? CD’s?
CD player? I do have a lot of CD’s. With separates, it’s either phono, cd, or streaming correct?
I’m not really a phono guy, but I know which albums I would buy so it is an option. I wouldn’t know a good phono if you hit me with it. Please recommend a few.
I’m leaning toward B&W speakers just because of their reputation. I may spend up to 5k on a good pair of speakers, but I want them to be used and costing much more when bought new. I know how to spot a good deal and not buy speakers on their death bed (from reputable sellers), but I need your recommendations too. You all have heard more speakers than I ever have and will.
**I’m going to check this post often and answer any questions and write down your recommendations.
I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE FOR THIS, IT IS A BIG DEAL FOR ME!
Pass Labs X1 Preamp, my rock to start with. I got it for $2500 This is where you can help me the most. Let me know your best match for this pre-amp, or the ones you have found to be the best you have heard!
Bryston 4B SST amp for about $1700. It’s been my experience that more power wakes up a speaker and pins it’s ears back. At 300wpc and the reviews on this amp I picked it, but just to start. I really need some experienced people to give me recommendations for the amp, or if the Bryston is a winner. I can sell this for a better amp.
Do I need a DAC?
Phono. I’ve realized that might be a big reason why people go to separates isn’t it? I’d like to hear some comments on this. If you have separates and no phono, what do you use? Stream music? CD’s?
CD player? I do have a lot of CD’s. With separates, it’s either phono, cd, or streaming correct?
I’m not really a phono guy, but I know which albums I would buy so it is an option. I wouldn’t know a good phono if you hit me with it. Please recommend a few.
I’m leaning toward B&W speakers just because of their reputation. I may spend up to 5k on a good pair of speakers, but I want them to be used and costing much more when bought new. I know how to spot a good deal and not buy speakers on their death bed (from reputable sellers), but I need your recommendations too. You all have heard more speakers than I ever have and will.
**I’m going to check this post often and answer any questions and write down your recommendations.
I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE FOR THIS, IT IS A BIG DEAL FOR ME!
132 responses Add your response
I would steer you away from Thiel or B&W. Try to consider speakers with soft dome tweeters that are not harsh in any fashion. Especially true if you stay with all but the most expensive sold state. Keep your preamp at least to try before going direct into your amp. If you buy decent cables I say that it is almost impossible for an integrated amp to match good separates. True you save space with an integrated and usually some coin, but connection between components is much less a problem than packing too much stuff into a single chassis. In fact, I rarely would consider a component without a separate power supply. I strongly prefer Pass amps to those made by Bryston. But there are a number of amps I prefer to Pass both S.S. and tube. Good luck and have fun! |
Here is the link for the Thiels.https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/ele/d/ponte-vedra-thiel-speakers/7019428351.html I have no experience with ML's or B&W's. Only Vandersteen, Klipsch Heritage, Ohm, Advent, and Thiels. |
You need a dac and some good speakers . Period . Spend as much as you can on both of those and use generic cables for now . A bluesound node2i will work in that department. Stick it into the pass labs , stick the pass labs into your amp , and get a $ 7500 set of speakers. Likely which used to be 15,000 . Done , buy the little stuff depending on how much ocd you deny having. Forget the phono . Thats a side track you dont want to get into at this point being you have no albums |
I like the Pass/Bryston combo. Stay away from vinyl right now. I also like the Cambridge CXC recommendation. A decent streamer would get you the variety you want. Morrow Audio can provide decent cabling at affordable prices. There is a pair of Von Schweikert VR-4's on the home page here for under $3K. I have not heard this speaker but I know people rave about it. Check some of the forums and read a lot. Good luck! |
I’m in Jacksonville Fl. I listen to a wide range of music, and good speakers would have me listening to a lot of jazz and easy listening, although the speakers need to be able to keep up with rock music as well. I'm retired military and getting up there in age so I don't have the years available to do a lot of auditioning equipment which is why I'm leaning on your experience! |
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The Pass is a great starting point. But you need to settle on speakers before (or at minimum at the same time as) you choose a power amp. You might be able to do low watts, you might not. B&W IMHO is overrated, and will need a lot of watts. There are lots of better choices out there. But you really need to work toward a decision on speakers, because they are the large tail that's wagging the rest of the dog. |
Wow, this forum is nuts... but whatever. At some point you've got to dive in. Get solid basics, whether separates or integrated. These days, a good integrated can be as good, if not better, than some separates combos. Either way, start there and make sure your preamp has all the inputs you might want to grow into. If you aren't into vinyl yet, don't spend the money. That's an easy add later when the desire and budget allows. Regarding tweaks? Those can wait as well. Gotta start with a solid foundation and build. Tweaks can be, and are, a slippery slope. YMMV. Picking speakers is tough too, and as mentioned, if you have access to a good shop see if you can demo some in your price range. Speakers can be very personal. One's fatigue is another's nirvana. Have some fun with it, that's the key. |
It used to be that you could go to your local audio store and audition a lot of gear and find what you like. Now there just aren’t many audio stores around, maybe because of eBay/Amazon? It makes putting a system together much harder. As far as speakers are concerned, I'm going off your recommendations and online reviews. I do want a full range speaker since it's a stereo system. |
Your pre and amp should work well together, I’ve had B&W 804’s and found them a bit fatiguing with all solid state gear but not bad either. I know a lot of people will say I’m crazy and you can take for what it’s worth a grain of salt as sfseay says but you might want to look into the Paradigm Prestige series the 85f is a pretty good speaker in your price range, also you might look at Ohm speakers that you could get new, but try to listen to as many as you can. I know it’s hard now with so many things by internet. |
Separates and integrateds have their pluses and minuses. I recently went back to separates from an integrated and have no regrets. Take all opinions you read here with a grain of 🧂. Many of the people that post here just make noise and challenge everyone else’s assumptions. You can learn a lot on this forum, but there are better forums where you get more wheat and less chaf. |
So everything I have read about separates being much better for audiophile quality music is false? I would rather stream than buy lots of vinyl if the quality is close enough. I have zero vinyl to start with. I can continue on to the streaming aspect unless someone convinces me vinyl is the only way to go. Please recommend a streamer (or phono if you say turntable can't be beat). Assuming everyone thinks the Pass and Bryston are worthy (for now) I am considering the Pass Labs X250 for upgrade later. The amp is so important I would consider everyone’s suggestions for an amp to match the Pass X1. This is the part I need your experience in. I have read mixing and matching preamp and amp are just as important in musical definition quality. I just want to use XLR cables for balanced input. I do want my speakers to be worthy of this system and will overspend on my budget to get the right speakers. B&W, Martin Logan, etc. if you see a pair worthy on Audiogon or eBay worth looking at please give me the name. As long as it doesn’t cost as much as a second mortgage. Regardless of the cost of everything else I will pay up to 5k for a pair of speakers that hopefully cost much more brand new (if they are still being made!). Thank you for the comments so far! |
+1 @sfseay if you want to go a little less money to get your feet wet in streaming try a Node2i and get a subscription to Tidal or other service you'll have millions of songs at your fingertips. If it does what you want you can look at a better streamer down the road , if not you're not out much as you can sell the Node. |
Do not waste money on tweaks as the additional benefit would be low to nil. Focus on your core system and spend at least 50% of your budget on speakers. I recommend you go digital to eliminate the hassle of turntable setup and the expense and headaches that go along with them. A Lumin D2 will fit within your budget and give you a very nice streamer DAC. |
You can never go wrong with Pass , it's to bad your budget doesn't permit a Pass amp but Bryston is very we'll made and respected check the Bryston forum on Audio Circle. You are correct about wanting good power from an amp. I see nothing wrong with these two pieces as starting points. I agree with going the used route you will get much more for your money. I think you will be happier spending a bit more than the Schiit on a phono pre, there are lots of great ideas on this and other audio forums. There are many different opinions on cable, fuses, power cords, interconnects and speaker elevators study them carefully before investing. As for speakers there are also multiple options available you just need to research then get out there and listen and find the sound that turns you on. |
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Lordy... You need to regroup and think about what you need. Do you really want to start getting into analog and all it requires when you seem to have no vinyl? Please do not get into tweaking at this time. You'll lose your mind. Looks like you like it loud and have enough room for big speakers. What sort of music? Do you understand subscription streaming and DACs? How about restating your case after you've thought about it? |
A nicely-restored Scott tube integrated amp (233 or 299 - $600) plus a pair of Altec Valencia's ($2K) will get you 98% of the way to Audio Nirvana! Add a Pioneer PLX1000 TT (new - $700) and a Grado Sonata MI cartridge ($500 new) plus a Schiit Mani phono stage ($129 - new) and you'll be all set for hours of LP enjoyment! |
Sell what you have and buy an integrated amp. Separates will never match the performance of an integrated, not for the same money anyway, because separates add a power cord and interconnect into the equation. It simply cannot be done. Not without spending a whole lot more money anyway. Yes you want a turntable, and separate phono stage. Preferably one with an arm with leads wired in as that also eliminates the need for another good interconnect. Then you need 2 speakers. At this point you need to make a decision. Do you want the very best bass possible? Because it costs about $3k. Which is a lot of your budget. But yields SOTA bass. Or you could get really good bass from something like Tekton Double Impacts planning to maybe add a Swarm later. Now if you're serious, which I doubt but for the sake of argument pretending you are, then the difference between any old hifi and truly captivating regardless of budget isn't the speakers or the amp or the phono, its the tweaks. So whatever you do budget a couple grand right off the top for Perfect Path Solutions Total Contact and Omega Mats, Synergistic Research HFT, ECT and PHT, and Orange Fuse, Cable Elevators, and BDR Cones. Budget about $2k for those, another $2k for wire (speaker cables, interconnect, power cords) and divide the remaining $4k between speakers, amp and table. There you go. You can't spend $5k on speakers. Sorry. Not for your $8k budget. Not that it matters, this being pure fantasy and all. But even pretending you can still at least pretend you're serious and want to do it right. |