Sounds to me that we share a common aesthetic for sound. I own a Koetsu Rosewood Signature which has a very musical character. I owned a Sonic Frontiers tubed CD player for many years and use a great tube amp. You can see my current system under my ID. I definitely recommend listening very carefully… or looking if listening is not possible to the Audio Research REF5SE. I had one for many years and loved it. I upgraded to the REF6SE, not because I felt I needed to, but I was upgraded my amp and DAC… and it just seemed appropriate.
One thing I really noticed was the synergy I got between ARC equipment… each additional piece got more than the individual piece would have predicted… while this may or may not be technically true, this is my way of looking at all ARC synergy. To a lessor extent you get this with all tube gear.
Assume three components made by different companies. The first a tad weak in the treble, the second a bit lean in the midrange, and the third a bit weak in the bass. String them together… you get subtraction… once lost, some of the signal cannot be regenerated. Overly simplified, but this is the way I think about choosing a system… any component of different character and you loose… cables also.
When I put in the final piece of my All ARC system… well, it was one of those jaw dropping moments.
it would be great to see your system. Sounds like a great one.
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The new McIntosh C2700 has totally impressed me with the sound and all its features. Easily one of the better deals in hi end audio. Not your older MAC sound its very neutral and clean sounding. The phono stages (one MM and one MC ) in it are quite nice and very quiet specially considering its all tube (I had 105db speakers on it for a while). I also run a koestsu Black gold line as well as some nice MI carts and the phono stage has not let me down yet. I replaced my dedicated outboard phono stage as the one in the MAC was better and more flexible with loading options. Its on par with my friends Allnic H-1202.
Recommend you have a closer look and listen.
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Thank you. Thank you for the recommendation of the AR Ref 5SE, I have heard and read many great things about it. If found, I might even jump up to the Ref Anniversary Edition. Yes, ultimately I may go the one manufacturer route. All AR, all CJ, or all Asthetix would be possible. I couldn't agree more regarding cables. Ten or so years ago I demo's many different cables. I let my wife be the judge as I had not told her what any of them cost. I was amazed by her comments such as what did you do, the sound is dull, or what did you do, I've never heard those details in that song before. I knew the prices and felt that I may be swayed in my decision.
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As much as I like and respect Mac gear, I found that it did not play very well with others. I would have to go totally Mac, and I don't want to go that route. That's why I have selected the preamps that I listed. I do appreciate the suggestion though..
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op - why do you feel it’s time to replace the sf line 2? maybe just send it back to chris j have him check it out retube it?
cj is not balanced (as superb as they are), won’t be able to use balanced out from phono stage
arc ref series excellent, not sure it will significantly outperform a well dialed in sonic frontiers with excellent tubes in place
suggest you don’t fix what isn’t broken, your system is excellent as it is
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Thank you. Yes the "Don't Fix What Isn't Broken" theory is why I've not upgraded sooner. The SFL-2 is a wonderful dual chassis preamp from back in 1995. Friends and family think my system sounds phenomenal, but that is not deterring me from trying something else more modern. I would not get rid of the SFL-2. I would use it as the benchmark to compare with.
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You've one source? Have you considered using a passive preamp? Basically a box with a stepped attenuator.
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I have a CD player connected for when my wife wants to play CD's, and I have a headphone amp connected as well.
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It all depends on what sound characteristics/improvements you’re looking for. All the preamps on your list sound different so you really need to nail down what kind of sound you’re looking for.
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OP,
I use my partner in audio decisions… she has better hearing… she may not know the vocabulary of care about it… she instantly hears hardnessan distortion and says she does not like it.
MAC gear is highly respected and owned by many. However, it does not appeal to many of us because of its lack of detail. Rock music… particularly with B&W speakers can sound fantastic. It is a matter of taste.
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I have never owned Octave gear but I did hear their stuff at RMAF. You might add their pre to your considerations.
Octave Pre
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Since you apparently love the Rhea and the Callistio is on your list, have you considered an Io Eclipse w/volume to replace both? Maybe a call to Jim White to bounce that alternative off him vs. the option you mentioned.
Another great preamp that is worthy of consideration is the Backert Labs Rhythm. Cheers,
Spencer
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Art Dudley reviewed the EAR-Yoshino 912, and said it was the first pre-amp he had heard which tempted him to replace his beloved Shindo. Designed and built by tube uber-expert Tim de Paravicini, very well known and respected by his peers, ignored by audiophiles.
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I second the EAR recommendation and will also recommend the CAT Ultimate or whatever it’s called nowadays.
Both have exceptionally good line AND phono stages -- both.
FWIW, I have compared the 912 with AR ref 6 and, excellent though the AR may be, the EAR is clearly (empirically speaking) superior.
The CAT’s dynamic swings are better than the EAR, but the detail reproduction and naturalness of the 912 are outstanding.
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Have you considered any of the VAC preamps?
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If you like the Levinson gear there is a 526 over on TMR just under your max budget.
Levinson-Pre
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Thanks but staying with tubes, thus the ML526 is out.
I would love a good VAC but about the older VC Standard Pre, nothing much ever comes up for sale. For a good reason no doubt. The Backert Labs was one I was wondering about and looks very interesting. Does anyone have experience with their Rhythm pre?
Has anyone listened to or owned a Concert Fidelity pre? I've read that they are compared closely to Shindo.
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@awise1961 I've heard the Backert Labs Rhythm and their Rhumba in a number of systems, including my own about 5years ago. Caveat is that I know the guys from Backert and consider them friends, although we haven't stayed in touch much since I relocated out of their area 4 years ago.
What I can you is that our local audio club had about 80 members. Backert demoed for the group. Over a couple of year period, more members bought Backert preamps than any other component by any brand. It seemed like every time a new buyer hosted a gathering and people listened, somebody else decided to get one. This includes members with a wide variety of ss, tube, every type of speaker, etc. Those preamps were beating all kinds of preamps, many at higher prices.
They are natural in timbre and don't need to be paired only with warmer or cooler gear. They are super quiet and notes start and stop on a dime, giving them their name. Andy, their president has worked as a professional musician; they know what music sounds like and they listen to ridiculous numbers of options for every part to optimize SQ. If I could afford to, I'd get one now.
They are a relatively new company, but Bob Backert has been in the biz for decades. They've got some unique tech(read up on their patented power supply), and are a tube roller's dream. I just wish they'd make a model that's truly balanced, vs. just having XLR outputs. Just my humble experience, Cheers,
Spencer
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Thank you sbank for the recommendations regarding Backert Labs. The Rythmn is now on my short list. I will call and talk with either Andy or Bob.
cwory, I had been wondering about the Zesto gear. I will research them as well.
My plan is to make a final decision over the weekend and purchase the new preamp early next week.
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I have the original Zesto Leto and it sounds great. I sent it to Zesto earlier this year for the ESP power supply that the new ones use. Their service and support is first class. Great gear.
It is the quietest preamp I have ever owned. Absolutely no self noise and very dynamic . Built like a tank, it feels like an integrated amp when you pick it up.
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I cant speak to the Zesto or Backert, but I picked up an ARC REF6 and it is excellent. Soundstage is locked in and I like having a digital volume display. Plus, the ARC REF6 really holds its value on the used market and ARC supports all of its equipment, even its vintage stuff. I am very pleased with it.
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arc and c-j pre's are beyond reproach, the companies are stalwarts and the sound is impeccable, kevin hayes' vac is also in this class
other companies may well make wonderful products, perhaps the equal to those of the above mentioned... there are many today, there have been many in the past
but one question is how durable and long lasting is the quality, and will the company remain healthy to support the product and customer going forward many years? remember, this is tubed gear we are talking about
i suppose the specific buyer, their expectations, time horizon to keep the gear, and so on, determines how much they value a foundational piece of one's system from a company like the above
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I couldn’t possibly have asked for more sage advice
than that jjss49. Thank you, it helps put things
in perspective for me.
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I replaced a CJ Classic 2 SE with the Zesto... it was nice but the Zesto annihilated it , to put it lightly . It is total ear candy !
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@oddiofyl
I have heard lots of good things about Zesto… and a couple comments about quality control. So, what is it’s sonic character… what were you comparing it to… ?
Details please.
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I love the Zesto, it has such a natural tone , you could say it is perfectly voiced for a preamp. Explosive dynamics coming from a jet black background. Great detail and huge Soundstage. Whats not to like? It is a great pre.
It has been very reliable, it’s on for hours every day. No issues. It did have a bad tube socket. With very high efficiency speakers there was an occasional faint noise in the right channel. I traced it the tube socket. They don’t make the tube sockets so unfortunately it was a bad part, no fault of Zesto. I sent it in, for a VERY reasonable fee George replaced all sockets with the new style gold/ceramic ones. I figured it’s in California it would be stupid to not do the ESP Power supply thats in the new units.
Before taking delivery of my Toolshed 300b Amp, I was talking to Matt about his latest preamp . It’s a DHT and promises to be the perfect match to what is a phenomenal amp. I’ll be selling the Zesto soon, but I can say its the best sounding pre I have ever owned or had first hand experience with to date. It’s good stuff.
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What improvements are you looking for, and what sound characteristics are most important to you?
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I'm desiring a more dynamic and expansive soundstage. With that, I have decided on an Aesthetix Callisto Eclipse. Negotiations are done, I'm just waiting on the final shipping cost so that I can send the funds. I already have an Aesthetix Rhea Signature phono pre. The Callisto allows me to stay with balanced interconnects and uses tubes which I have in my collection of vintage NOS pieces. Luckily I have the space available for this new beast. It has three chassis, two of which weighing in at 50 pounds each.
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Congrats! I’m sure you’ll absolutely love it.
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@awise1961 , I used to have a similar system to yours.
my vote would be for the 7.5 III or the 6.5 series II. I have 3 of the VTL pres. They are really good. A couple of years ago I went through an eval process, on both preamps and phono stages. The Aesthetix Rhea is a nice phono section. I used one for about 6 months. But have heard nothing that sonically beats the TP6.5 combo with a TL7.5 in full differential mode, until you get up to the Boulder level.
I also used to have the EVO 400s. they are pretty nice sounding and have plenty of power when run in mono mode.
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@awise1961
enjoy! great choice!
we will look forward to your next linestage upgrade in roughly 2040!! 😉
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Yes, 2040 or bust...
I'm anxious to start rolling tubes.
The main unit uses a total of four 6922's, two 12AX7s', and two 6SN7's.
The power supply uses a total of six 12AX7's, and two EL34's.
My dedicated music room is quite large but I'm sure this will add considerably more heat. My home has a dedicated HVAC zone for that room.
The EVO 400's with eight KT88's and six 12AU7's in each do a great job of that already.
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