Has LED caught up to Plasma?

I have a 55" Hitatchi Plasma that is 6-7 years old and it still looks fantastic... better than anything I've seen on the market today. The problem with a lot of the LCD/LED models that are out now is they have cranked the lighting Contrast up so high that you lose a lot of the gray scale. All the beautiful midtones (hence a lot of image detail) have been destroyed by lights that are too bright and shadows that are too black.

I, on the other hand, am going to wait it out for a dozen or so technology evolutions before buying, and have decided to wait for fully immersive, 3D holographic, visual surround display technology, that places me in the middle of a virtual world of action and drama! ...ya know, kind of like the matrix?
Hey, why why buy now and settle for small increments of uprades? They perfected the flat screen with the Pioneer Kuro, for Heaven's sakes!
Take the Blue Pill...I always say.

Isnt that like listening to speakers that are "almost smooth"?

Vicdamone - I find the + to be a bit quicker and fuller, terms which of course I have no desire to even Begin to measure :-). The best thing I like about it is being able to make adjustments, especially volume, on the fly using the remote and the display on the sub itself. That's a great feature, because some songs sound best with just a bit of extra bass, some with more.

Bill- If you get a chance to check out these Elite Pro Tv's, I think it will be well worth your time. They blow away anything I've seen both last year and this. They can also be adjusted to be almost "plasma-like" if there is such a term. I got mine from Robert, the Owner of Value Electronics in Scarsdale, NY. He's quite active on high-def forums and a genuine nice guy - definitely at least worth a call, if you're curious.

Last year I bought my first big screen television and spent a fair amount of time looking at LED, LCD, and plasma in 3 different stores.

Purchased a Panasonic 46" plasma; it was a no brainer.

Fplanner, If your like me, it sounds like you've reached that point were you're listening to the music and not the system anymore.

Forget my plasma biased pontificating of minute details, you have an outstanding display that YOU enjoy watching, period. Your LCD don't get hot, uses less juice and it's HUGE. Yeah buddy.

After years of trying to locate a non octal MFA Luminescence pre I was about to get a VAC pre when my Reflection Audio popped up on the Gon.

One question, did you upgrade from Velodyne DD to +? If so, I'd like to hear your comments.

Vicdamone - Thanks, I appreciate it. I've decided to pass on CES this year and just enjoy what I've got. I've been very fortunate to be able to piece together my system, such as it is, and now finally have the right video component, at least for me. Thanks again and Happy Holidays. :-)

Fplanner, That's an amazing system! Not much wiggle room for improvement there. Enjoy.

I have a 6 year old 50" Pioneer plasma and a 1 year old LG LED. Also a 2 year old Sharp LCD.

The LED and LCD are OK but I would not even attempt to make a comparison to the plasma, at least in terms of natural color saturation. The plasma is worlds ahead in that aspect. Otherwise, maybe or at least I would expect the differences to evaporate over time if not quite yet.

If I had only relied on the poorly set-up 60" Elite Pro at the Magnolia Best Buy I visited, I would have NEVER purchased the set. Nobody there had the faintest idea how to properly set up the set, let alone using the different viewing modes, which can VASTLY change the picture's appearance. To be fair, they are used to selling "hamburgers" and this TV is definitely a "steak".

Fortunately I had lots of other input both online and from others upon which to base my decision. Just watched a movie called "Stealth" last nite over cable with lots of high-speed action and the TV performed flawlessly. I was impressed but not surprised after all I have heard.

I spent some time viewing the Sharp Elite 60X5FD in a Best Buy Magnolia room which was said to have been calibrated. Using the stores 75 ohm / cable feed and a Pioneer BDP-53FD Blueray playing the familiar Master and Commander.

Indeed, this is the best LCD I've seen. In this context and uselessly compared to my out of production Pioneer Elite FD151 running the same film from a Pioneer BDP-05FD and Comcast cable there was one area that some may consider the Sharp LCD superior.

The LCD had a slightly brighter color rendition. As a long time plasma viewer I found the difference just slightly cartoonish in appearance. This is a slight difference that shouldn't be an issue to the sets new owner but to this Kuro snob it's annoyingly distracting.

For me the most important aspect of black level performance is the ability of the display to produce shadow detail as well as dark black. Dark in nature the film Master and Commander provides subtle color hues and a great deal of dark shading. All the other plasmas on display were doing a better job of shading than the Sharp.

The slight color distraction is small compared to the proverbial LCD/LED achilles, motion blur and viewing angle. When your hosting guests and you find yourself a little to far to the side and the LCD's picture begins to fade be certain that a plasma is still completely viewable at that angle. Again, the Sharp has the best control of these shortcomings I've seen so far.

Obviously, I'm horribly biased. I'm also very lucky to own a uniquely designed plasma that became too costly to produce. The Kuro's auto brightness feature greatly minimizes, one of the plasmas ongoing shortcomings, bright ambient light. Long out of production its stature is moot and has no bearing on the original posters question unless you value the lack of motion blur and a wide viewing angle, a plasma given.

The difference between LCD and plasma is not unlike the difference between tube and solid state audio amplification. Over time the performance gap has narrowed greatly but their fundamental nature of design will make ones choice a matter of taste. Lets not forget Pioneers once stunning Laser Disk technology was outdone in time.

I demo'd the 60 inch Elite Pro last week. It's very noticeably the best picture I've seen. At 6K, I searched and saw Amazon listed them at near 4,500. I called Sharps' Elite Pro registration center and they accept Amazon approved purchases. I'd use a credit card with double warranty features and the factory 2-year plan extends automatically to 4 years.

I'd confirm this just before purchasing with a rep's name and number at the Elite registration center, then, register it immediately. They haven't launched a extended warranty, yet. However, they said Sharp will soon offer it to owne's if the set is still under the 2-year warranty.

I usually don't go for extended warranties. However, this technology is newer and complex. The right credit card warranty extension is my best choice.

Technology keeps moving forward. These prices will drop and newer products are always just over the horizen. It's a great TV if the timing is right for buyer's. If my 6 year old 60 inch Sony dives, hopefully, the timing is right for me, too.

Yes the 58 is 720, the projector and another 46 plasma are 1080p.

Chadnliz , Are you still using the Panasonic 720P ?

I agree the "THX" settings do seem pretty extreme. The SMPTE guideline seem to be more appropriate, at least to me.

Chadnliz, that might be your personal preference, but it doesn't conform to any established guidelines I'm familiar with:

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

I was being a bit cute there but the "THX" seating standards are pretty extreme. I sit about 10ft from my 100in for movies and about 9 from 58in plasma for general viewing.

5 ft. away from an 84" screen!? I don't know Chad, I find that even in a theater, if I have to move my eyes from left to right to see what's happening, I'm sitting entirely too close! I'll defer to those of you that actually prefer sitting in the front but it doesn't work for me. I've sat in large projection TV rooms and been impressed, but never that close.

The only folks who ever claim projectors are a waste of money are most always the same folks for whatever reason cant have one. If you think a 120in picture from any number of quality makers for the same budget or even less isnt impressive you have only convinced yourself. The fact remains that even at 80in your still not really in the true HT experience, your close as many say 84in is the minimum as long as you sit about 5ft from it.

fplanner, you gonna keep crying or can you manage to get over it?

Its still "snideness", as another poster has remarked, and inappropriate.

i suggest you read my response again. i said "if i were to waste," not You! i could care less what anybody spends, but for me personally it would be a waste of money. thank you!

Although not a full participant in the shootout because it's no longer available via retail, the Pioneer Elite 141 was voted by this year's audience at Value Electronics' annual Flat Panel Shootout as having the best picture (results are on valueelectronics.com, and David Katzmaier's summary is on CNet).

The Sharp Elite has edged LCD closer than it's ever been to the Kuro and it's probably the display I'd buy today if I were looking for new stock, but it's got a ways to go in a few areas before knocking the king off the throne.

Well said.

Snideness aside (considering what many on Audiogon spend on audio, his wasting remark is misplaced, and uncalled for here) Rayray's point is not without merit. If one could find a Kuro (not easy, but possible), if the 60" maxiumum screen size would work for the situational viewing distance, if the room in which it will be used will not have an excess of ambient light, then the Kuro might or might not be preferable. If one could provide the neccessary dark room, and there's enough space for throw distance, then a front projector might be a preferable choice. The Sharp Elite ceratinly does provide a top quality option for many circustances, for those who can and are willing to pay a premium price for it's performance prowess.

RR- Then your money truly WOULD be wasted, since at best you would still have a vastly inferior picture to the PRO ELITE. BTW - Your "waste" crack was out of line and not helpful to anyone. This TV has been favorably compared to the Kuro in several reviews already, besting it in a number of categories.

kuro is still the best tv ever made. there again if i were to waste $6-$8k on a tv i would go the projector route with a 100"+ screen!

I agree with Fplanner, though there are even bigger plasmas.

Plasma not only can be had in 80in but also 85 and even 103 inches.

I wouldn't have bought it if it wasn't better - so no, I didn't buy 2nd best, at least not to me (and many others). The blacks ARE better, viewing angle is fine and its my individual choice, as you say. Its in a different league than the plasmas and the other LCDs, whether you choose to admit it or not. Not sure that I've ever even seen a 70" plasma...

Ofcourse someone who bought an LCD is goning to think its better, I have yet to see anyone say" I bought the second best monitor". The viewing angle will never be as great, I dont think blacks are better, motion is close but its individual choice, and cash.

I would say yes - LCD has caught up, and reference my new PRO ELITE 70" (Unsound is referring to the 60" version). Beats any plasma I have ever seen in most of the discussion points above, including black level. Its the product of a 2.5 year joint venture between Pioneer engineers and Sharp engineers with no preconceived price tag. Its the first and only TV that comes close to providing a real movie theater experience. The display and features are incredible, IMHO.
FWIW - you can also make the picture look like a plasma set, if you wish. I don't, but others might.. :-)

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sharp-elite-pro-60x5fd/4505-6482_7-35004013.html?autoplay=true&tag=cnetRiver

The Sony Qualia front projector was the first video source that gave me an idea of what video was capable of, but that was SXRD. Though not 3D, it provided a sense of depth that I had never seen before. There are ultra projectors that cost nearly as much as ultra speakers. I suppose one could argue that one could justify the cost of those projectors easier than those speakers?

Unsound, overall, I agree with you. My fondness for LED is based on my Sony Qualia 005. I haven't yet seen anything better. The Elite KURO Signature Series PRO monitors may be the industry reference now, and they may exceed the Qualia in some ways.

"best" and "value" are largely unrelated concepts. Fortunately, for video monitors, the two are not as far apart as they are in audiophile gear. I don't even know anyone who would consider a $250,000 speaker; a $7000 video monitor may be a conceivable purchase.

Chadnliz, that one article did seem to contradict most of your assertions with the very same criterion you used to support your assertions.
Lloydc, the one area where the Sharp Elite fell behind all the other competitors was in color rendition. Plasmas as a group did better than LCD/LED's in color rendition.
IMHO, the answer to the OP question is; Yes, LED has caught up to Plasma (at least to plasmas generally still currently available)....but, there are still some differences. Plasma is a better value. Plasma offers better viewing from wider viewing angles. LED is more energy efficient. LED's work better in brighter rooms. LED's come in thinner packages.
For me the value of plasma coupled with the typically more durable screens (Sony gorilla glass LCD's excepted) would be preferable. Other's circumstances might differ, and the alternate choices might be preferable for them.

Chadnliz, afaik, no one is saying LCD is best. LED is another matter. The color range of the best backlit LED's exceeds plasma and the colors look more naturalistic. It would be hard to argue against plasma for watching sports, though, where color is relatively unimportant and motion artifacts are very important. Relative value is a different argument.

One article isnt enough to sway the debate, LCD is good and gaining fast but as of yet its still the Plasma eho is king. That may change shortly

Chadnliz, your might want to read this:
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-20118503-221/sharp-elite-wins-value-electronics-hdtv-shootout/?tag=contentMain;contentBody;1n

For $8k you can get a LCD that still cant quite match a Plasma at half or less the cost, its that simple.

The latest Pioneer backlit LED looks mighty fine. $8K.

I don't disagree with Unsound above; Pioneer's best plasmas were great. As in audio, there are advantages to each technology, and tastes vary.

Plasma still does deeper blacks, smoother motion and offer best viewing angle, ultra premium priced LED models narrow the gap but the vast majority of people truely in the know of video quality still understand Plasma is king. 3d just hasnt caught on and besides thats a different debate than pure best video quality. LED has the great slim look and better energy ratings but again thats just not what this debate is about.

Nope...new LED's are now better. The high end LED's are 3D, but you can switch that off.

Right angle cords can be had for those installs

Ptm, yes, I already have a power conditioner, and yes, it does do amazing things for the video quality.

There has been a few responses referring to the power usage of plasma screens vs LED...so I was doing a bit of comparison. A 55" LED screen used approximately 38 watts, while a similar sized plasma screen used 120 watts. Yes, it appears that LED tv's use much less power, but I was rather surprised by the numbers to begin with. It's hard to believe that a big plasma screen only uses 120 watts....that's like little more than your typical light bulb.

On another topic, has anyone upgraded their power cords on their tvs? Since the screens are so thin, it's kind of hard to do if you wanted it mounted very close to the wall.....

Calgarian5355 - Samsung's are very sexy looking, but I do not think think they have the best picture. I think the current Sony line-up is better than Samsung. To me, Samsung is the brightest of the LCD/LEDs but not as crisp. When you turn the brightness down to normal levels, they just do not have the cripsness. But, if you room light levels allow and you do not mind the power drain the V series Panasonic plasma's are very, very good.

Yes, definitely put a power conditioner on whatever TV you buy. The difference and improvement is immediate and obvious. Plug yout TV converter box and DVD player in also while you're at it.

Extended warranty is in almost all cases simply to remove more money from a customers wallet. My Panasonic plas has a in home 12 month warranty parts and service. Studies show this type gear if its going to fail it will right away, well within provided warranty or its most likely to work just fine, problems crop up quickly with few exceptions and extended service plans are almost pure profit as retailers know these facts.

I've had a 50" Panny plasma for almost 6 years. For various reasons it's on I'd say almost 18 hours a day and I've never had a problem. I have it hooked up to an APC power conditioner with power regulation (we have frequent power outages/brown outs here) so not sure how much that may be helping, but I think the extended warranty is not necessary. If anything's going to go wrong it usually happens within the first year (or first few months), and the factory warranty would cover that. Love my TV by the way, and I'd buy another Panny plasma in a heartbeat.

Thanks for everyone's responses. I went to a few retailers the past couple days and did some preliminary shopping. From what I saw, the plasma screens are indeed better than the LED's. I had my heart set on the very thin bezel on the Samsung LED 7000/8000 series tv's (very sexy!) but in the end, I think I'm going to have to go with the latest VT series of the Panny plasma. The last installment of the Star Wars saga playing on the 65" VT Panasonic plasma was stunning! So now my question is this (and this goes back to my fear of the heat generated by plasmas), would you buy the extended warranty?