Gustard R26 - good but not the one

Is it possible that the Gustard DACs are at their best when using the I2S input?

Anyone have experience or knowledge with the Gustard clocks C-16 and C-18 used with the R-26? 

@uncle_monkey good luck if you take that punt. Here are some notes on clocking 

• Square wave is the best if done well, though sine is better than mediocre square
• Square requires that impedances match for the source and destination sockets, as well as cable and plugs. Sine is not fussy
• For square the best cable has the lowest attenuation. For sine the best cable has the best shielding. I use a cybershaft semi rigid for my sine

@sls883 I've had the NOS set for pretty much the entire duration of owning. I played with it before break in, and a few times after. I've read that most people prefer it that way. Also agree on fast. Slow just sounds sort of bloated to my ears.

@lollipopguild That's very interesting. I honestly hadn't considered that TBH, so now my curiosity is piqued. As I mentioned, I had really thought by the 2 year mark I'd be moving on, and the R26 would be in my video system. I'll take a look at the AfterDark King and Mutec for starters. If I decide to bite I'll report back I've made the mod, and then of course after I've had a chance to live with it for a while. Cheers! 

I have an R26.  Out of the box it was clearly superior to the Denafrips Pontus II 12th it replaced.

I haven't read the entire thread here, so unsure whether external clocking has been mentioned, but what the R26 offers over very few other DACs is its extensibility.  Add a decent 10MHz clock to the R26 and it becomes a different beast.  In fact I'd go as far as stating that I feel the most important part of any digital setup is the clocking.  I have an AfterDark King OCXO feeding my R26, and an Innuos PhoenixUSB between my Innuos Zenith and the R26.

Add a clock with as low a measure of phase noise at the 10Hz offset as possible and you'll be knocked sideways.  As I said, I have an AfterDark King, which has a sine output.  If I was buying again I'd probably go the Mutec Ref10 Nano, which has square wave output, multiple of them, plus doesn't require an extra high quality LPS.

I'm so convinced of the importance of clocking that if I had an extra £5k to spend I could either upgrade my ATC SCM40 to the SCM50, or my Hegel H390 to the H600, or my King to the Mutec Ref10 SE120.  I have a very strong feeling that the last of these would offer the best upgrade.

@uncle_monkey I'm very happy with my R26.  

I remember reading a review where the reviewer had the filter set to Slow.  That's my least favorite.  I have mine set at Fast. It doesn't sound as good on Slow. Maybe if you're system was on the bright side. Imo. 

The other night I switched to NOS mode.  I hadn't really tried it. I like it set there. 

Way late to the party, but an FYI for anybody considering the Gustard R26. 3 days is not nearly enough to break this thing in. When I got mine 2 years ago (as word of mouth was just starting to go nuts) I decided to try this out as it was less than half what I was looking at with Denafrips and especially Holo.

For the first few days, I thought it was ok, possibly better in the mids than my post-divorce "emergency" cheap AF Topping D90, but not amazing. I had 30 days to return it, and was starting to read people thought it needed at least 200 hours of break in. So, I let it run 24/7 occasionally checking in. After about 5 days the etch was gone, and top seemed a lot more open. I A/B'd with my Topping to make sure I wasn't hallucinating. After a little over a week, the main characteristics remained, but it was much, much more open and had incredible heft making my Focal Kanta No2's grunt with gusto. So really after 10-12 days it was 90% broken in and I was no longer concerned about my 30 day return window. It improved a bit more after that, but nothing to remark on.

At the time, I felt for $1600 I'd be looking at a replacement by now. Funny enough, not a whole lot has changed, the R26 still tops many lists. I demoed the Denafrips Venus in home before the Gustard and was pretty much sold, but prefer the Gustard and glad I took the risk. It's got a bunch of stuff I have zero use for, but for somebody that wants a flexible DAC with other features, hard to beat. I'm looking at getting my hands on a LAiV Harmony next, the build piques my interest, and again, $2700 beckons the cheapskate in me!

BTW, I mostly listen to my analog front end, I'd love to get something remotely close for digital. But again, I have a lot more invested in the analog side. having been collecting LP's since the late 60's.

The thing to remember about Chord is that its an oversampling DAC and its built in oversampling is pretty good. To do a real side by side comparison for full potential of an R2R DAC like Gustard R26 one should use HQPlayer at the internal 705/768 rate of the Chord DAC, vs depend on the “comes with” over sampling limitations.

I don’t understand how to compare a 5 year old dac to a 3 day old dac. I would guess at 3 days it would sound possibly it’s worst ever. I owned a used Qutest for a few months. I’m not sure it would best a nice r2r dac, at least for my personal taste.

Congrats on moving up the Chord chain. If you liked the Qutest then this is the best path forward.

To be fair, I don't think anyone had issues with you not preferring the R26. It's just that you never gave it a fair chance (i.e. putting more hours on it) to start with. IME, R2R dacs require even more burn in time compared to other topologies. 

I ended up getting a Chord Hugo TT2 and I'm very happy with the sound improvement over the Qutest. To me, it's a great sounding piece of equipment.

I realize folks didn't like me preferring the Qutest over the R26. I said lots of nice things about the R26, but that did not seem to register to many.

Oh, well. Just posting my opinion and you know what they say about "opinions," they're like... well, you probably know the phrase.

IMO any attempt to review Qutest vs other DAC's is incomplete if up-sampling isn't a major part of the comparison.

Interesting shoot-out.  So many variables dependent on each system’s synergy with the DAC.  My R26 replaced the Black Ice Audio DSD Glass DAC and iFI Steam.  The R26 is a definite step up on my modest second system.  Go figure 🤔
 

https://azavclub.com/what-is-new-1

R26 or Pontus now Cutest in running.

I stream Qobuz on BS Node2i w Geshelli J2 dac.

I like the Node 2i 's Bluos app and overall sound is good. This is my 1st streamer and dac.

My quality recorded lps sound much better. My ears are use to analog sound and love a broad soundstage.

My rig also includes Odyssey Kismit amp and Magnepan 1.7i planar speakers, very transparent and revealing.

As good as reviews are for R26, I do wonder if the streamer can beat the Nodes. 

With above info, any best synergy pairing amongst the 3 conteners? Thanks!

i love the qutest too, but the two, at their best (qutest with lps), to my ear, are close in absolute sound quality, with the qutest being a touch more holographic but ever so slightly leaner through the midbass, more solid in the deep bass

Yep, that’s exactly what I feel about the Qutest vs the R26.

no doubt the op did not hear the r26 as it should have been heard (fully broken in, zero volume attenuation)

i love the qutest too, but the two, at their best (qutest with lps), to my ear, are close in absolute sound quality, with the qutest being a touch more holographic but ever so slightly leaner through the midbass, more solid in the deep bass

Has anyone used the volume control and/or the attenuation switch on the R26? If so, how would you describe the impact on the sound quality?

@creativepart said, "And, I didn't want a new $1500 DAC that just was as good as what I've been living with all these years." Actually, that is good to know in many ways, considering the glowing reviews of the Qutest. For those of us using sub-$1K DACs, perhaps the R26 is "the one" to upgrade to - especially at 10% off. 

But I do question the fact that a solid-state device has to be "burned in" for several hundred hours before it reaches its potential. I mean, if it does, then I have to ask, does it stabilize at that "good sound" or will it continue to change over time, perhaps in a not so good way? What physics is involved in these non-mechanical devices changing how they sound as they "break-in"?

And shouldn't manufacturers burn them in to begin with and maybe charge another $25 for the electricity used? Why should an end user have to wait a month before figuring out if they like something before they (barely) hit the return window? 
 

No I didn't. The unit I borrowed had the updates installed. Since you invested in the R26, invest some time and work your way through that discussion. You will find the step by step answers to all your questions there. Yes, the Gustard instructions are minimal and the software updates require some effort but, from I understand, are worth it.

@vinylvalet I did open all the links on the first page and could not find any reference as to how to check your software version.  Instruction for installing the updates were provided.  Yikes…that install process seems like a PITA and I would rather avoid it if not necessary.  Gustard has room to better communicate and improve their update process.  Did you check or do the software update?

@tksteingraber You're welcome. The thread I referenced will answer that question and more. The OP did a great job updating findings from the thread on the first page.

Can anyone advise on how to check what software is running on the R26?  Thanks

@vinylvalet Thanks for the input.  I will check the software and the Users Thread.  Good to hear you prefer using the R26 streamer.  I like the simplicity and ease of use. It sounds very good to me so far.   I also have fiber optic and LPS on my network👍

Interesting as I'm looking at trading for a Dave but was worried the older DAC tech maybe long in the tooth as they say compared to newer DAC designs. 

I previously owned the Chord Qutest, and recently tried the Gustard R26 a couple of months ago. I would take the R26 over Qutest any day of the week and twice a day on Sunday. However, it does need a solid 200+ hours to open up. That's true for most R2R dacs by the way. It sounded thin an anemic for the first 100 hours or so but opened up quite a bit around the 100 hour mark. After that the soundstage becomes wide and the R2R characteristics (as in organic, slightly warm) kick in.

The OP was too hasty in returning it.

Personally, I would not publish any digital component review without putting 500 hours on it first.

I agree, I didn't intend to make a review as such and would not with only 48 hours of constant use.

My comments are solely a reflection of my initial take when compared with a well-used Chord DAC. Nothing more.

Most folks, myself included when I borrowed a well broken-in unit from a friend, prefer the sound quality using the LAN input. I also have a Zen Stream and preferred going directly into the R26; less finicky and slightly better sound quality. Make sure you do all the R26 software updates.

Please keep in mind, I have a highly tweaked network running fiber to, in the case of a unit like the R26 (my much preferred, much more expensive unit is the Weiss DAC501, also with a LAN input), a fiber to wired ethernet converter.

Here's a very long but useful R26 user thread. You'll find help with the software updates on the first page.

R26 Users Thread

@vinylvalet I just picked up a used R26 a couple weeks ago and I am very impressed by it. Definite step up for my second system.  What’s your assessment of the on board streamer?  I love the ease of use with it connected to a roon core compared to an iFI zen stream i used prior.  Thanks

@tiggerfc is correct. Even if you ran it 24/7 for three days, you are nowhere close to stable and final sound quality for the R26. I've owned the Quest with a very good linear supply and I've had a well broken R26 in house connected directly to wired ethernet running Roon in an optimized network. No comparison in my mind; the R26 is by far the superior unit regardless of taste or system.

Personally, I would not publish any digital component review without putting 500 hours on it first.

@tiggerfc I do realize that perhaps much more break in could have certainly made a difference. What I didn't think was that 100-200 hours would vault the R26 past my Qutest. And, I didn't want a new $1500 DAC that just was as good as what I've been living with all these years.

I have to admit, I regularly find myself thinking how great the Chord sounds compared to my previous DACs. And this is what makes me wonder about the next step up and what it would be like.

I will agree that for a new DAC with tons of functionality, that the R26 is great value for money.

For years when I've posted about a "next DAC" the Hugo TT2 is most often mentioned to me because of how the Qutest suits me. Perhaps, I'll save up enough to make that happen.

Great comments.   I am narrowing my DAC choice from my current Atom+ to the Qutest, Mojo, or Bifrost.   

I am not sure id there is that much difference in what I am most sensitive to, (female vocal and false horn edginess) in any of the Delta Sigma ( DO300, E70 etc) over my cheap JDS.   I want to hear how short, if at all, a Mojo is to a Qutest and the basic character difference to the Bifrost. 

Rummor FPLA prices have come down so Chords may drop a little. 

This is probably the 1st time that I observed a used Qutest dropped below $1k. Grab it while you can if the quality is that gooooooood. Personally, I think the Chord DACs are overpriced for what they are but maybe they are worth every penny given the sound quality.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650015131-chord-qutest-dac/

I’ve had the R26 for about six months or so and I’ve heard it pass through several different break-in stages. There isn’t just one. I believe there’s upwards up five. Very odd but maybe not for an R2R. Anyhow, overall I think it is a very fine DAC, especially at the price point. Will it be a permanent resident in my system for 13 years like my old Cary DAC? No. Because I’m definitely a Weiss fan and feel that even at that price point, such a DAC is worth it. I just wanted to see how good you could get for sub-2k range so this was merely an experiment. At least, in my system, it is really quite amazing. Lots of playing with the settings and disabling and enabling of features. And it is worth noting I don’t use the onboard streamer. I have an external dedicated streamer (Moon MiND 2) that serves the purpose. It is true that using that tiny, low-cost computer chip for a streamer is absolutely the weak point in the R26. That said, the combined cost easily gets you into the $4k range where other dacs can handle that duty just fine. But I’m not getting rid of my streamer as I am fond of dedicated pieces that serve dedicated purposes. That said, my experience in particular is far better than one would have using the R26 as a sole streamer/DAC combo. Think that in a very important anecdote for anyone considering this particular DAC. It is indeed very good and very well worth it at its price point. And definitely a good one you can use while saving your dimes for a “grail” DAC. Just avoid the streamer and get an outboard piece. 
 

As for the sound, in my system, soundstage is impeccable. Couldn’t believe what I was missing. There is a slight loss of that analog sound as compared to the Cary. I think it is more of a low end tonal thing where the Cary has an edge up. But the bad response is right, we’ll controlled and brings out everything available in the recording. Don’t downplay this DAC. It is the best one you can get for the money. Not the best DAC by anything means, but if you don’t have $10-15k, or more, for a high end DAC, give it a shot. If you hate it, return it. I ordered mine directly from the supplier in China. Great response times and they got the unit to me in good time. Not super fast, but it made it here in perfect condition and the damn thing seems like it would take a bullet and keep working. Very impressive build quality. If you’re curious, it is worth a shot. 

I have the Chord DAVE, also a few years old.  But haven't been tempted to upgrade.  A friend wants me to try Lapizator...maybe someday.  But DAVE is just too good.

Jerry

No I2s on the Chord. Maybe the x26 pro would have been better for you. Not a fan of r2r, at least the Aries 2 I used to own.

Very interesting, and thanks again for your impressions!

The Qutest is better in overall tonal balance and soundstage. Instruments and voices are separate and placed specifically in space. The R26 had good clarity and decent staging but things were just not as precisely placed.

My speakers (Harbeth P3ESR) disappear with the Chord. With the R26 I heard specific sounds coming from specific speakers.

It wasn't a massive difference and it took 2-days of back and forth to confirm what I was hearing.

Great feedback.  Thanks!  If you could, in what areas was the Chord better to you in terms of sonics?