I have node 2i for over a year now. Added an aftermarket power cord, ran a Cat 6 from router to Node. I bought a Blue Jeans cable for $40. I use COAX from Node to DAC. I have a Topping D90. It is about 700. Very clean, dynamic, really quiet. There are lots of brands that will work. Some of the models are designed to tame that "digital edge" using tubes or R2R. Whatever you do, don't use the digital volume on the Bluesound ap. Turn it to fixed volume. Otherwise it will sound..well..not as good. I messed around for a year not knowing this. You will notice that songs come in anywhere from 16/44.1 to 24/192. I haven't had a lot to compare to but you can make digital sound very good; at least I think it does.
Got a Node 2i, what's next?
So, I admit that I'm not much of a digital guy. I ordered an Node 2i for the main HT system mostly for Amazon HD. Much better than roku --> Denon AVR-X3600. I liked it so much I ordered another for my previously all analog 2 channel system.
It's not bad, and convenient. Not even close to vinyl on the same release and level matched recordings, but then again, I didn't expect it to be. I keep reading about how you can easily improve the sound by adding in an external DAC. Here's where I get confused.
I don't want to spend a lot on a DAC, because at best it's a secondary source. I'd feel comfortable in the $500 - $1000 range, but I'm really confused over the options and how they relate to sound quality.
First, r/2r vs I guess delta sigma? What are the sonic advantages of either, there are widely differing opinions there. I understand how each works from reading around, but how does it relate to sound quality?
Second, multibit vs whatever else. Same basic questions, what are the basic sound characteristics of each?
Third, oversampling or no.
And lastly, what bitrate/bit depth is considered adequate? 24/192 seems to be standard but some dacs only have 24/128 over optical. Will this make any difference real world with HD streaming? I also have an old NAD cd player with coax digital out I might want to hook up for kicks.
I've researched three so far, the Denefrips Ares II, , the Schiit offerings below $1K, and the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M. I would like to have balanced outputs to keep the digital circuitry as far away from the analog stuff as possible.
Thanks in advance for your answers.
It's not bad, and convenient. Not even close to vinyl on the same release and level matched recordings, but then again, I didn't expect it to be. I keep reading about how you can easily improve the sound by adding in an external DAC. Here's where I get confused.
I don't want to spend a lot on a DAC, because at best it's a secondary source. I'd feel comfortable in the $500 - $1000 range, but I'm really confused over the options and how they relate to sound quality.
First, r/2r vs I guess delta sigma? What are the sonic advantages of either, there are widely differing opinions there. I understand how each works from reading around, but how does it relate to sound quality?
Second, multibit vs whatever else. Same basic questions, what are the basic sound characteristics of each?
Third, oversampling or no.
And lastly, what bitrate/bit depth is considered adequate? 24/192 seems to be standard but some dacs only have 24/128 over optical. Will this make any difference real world with HD streaming? I also have an old NAD cd player with coax digital out I might want to hook up for kicks.
I've researched three so far, the Denefrips Ares II, , the Schiit offerings below $1K, and the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M. I would like to have balanced outputs to keep the digital circuitry as far away from the analog stuff as possible.
Thanks in advance for your answers.
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Even If you like the Node 2I you have to deal with the interface , Yuk Ive been doing my homework on DACS and you forgot to mention R2R ladder DACs. Im probably going to get that Denafrips ares or Buy american and get schiit maybe even the YGG and be done with it ,, then I can come off my phone thru Tidal HiFi over lightning to USB keeping it digital for the 9Ft run to the outboard standalone DAC then my receiver. I think I understand DACs now, its for the most part a big Filter because there's DACS on every phone the size of a spec but to give it the spaciosness, Airiness, chocolate mousse flavor , Every DAC modulates the sound because I dont think it was actually recorded the way Audiophiles are trying to get it to sound like, Audio nirvana is when you have separation , depth spaciousness like a 3d hologram and thats why DACs go from being a sec on a Phone to a cd player size cause theres allot going on not just 00001111's to analog but filtration on top of modulation only then can your amplifier amplify it and your speakers reproduce it. I was lost for a while on DACs and I still dont know everything. I returned my Node 2I because the interface treated me like a second rate citizen in my own home. It had to go!! I demoted the AQ Cobalt to my computer and use it for Porn now cause thats all its good for. Im saving up for a decent DAC . |
I was in the same position as you. Mainly a vinyl guy but wanted a digital front end as an option to hear stuff I love but don't have on vinyl. I got a node 2 and thought it sounded ok. I then went fairly nuts trying to decide on a DAC. I initially ordered a Chord Qutest but it took forever to ship so when a Schiit yggsrassil analog 2 came up on one of the used sites I jumped at it and cancelled the chord. Overall, I've been very happy with the results. Has nice mid bass response and does not sound too bright. |
I also had the Node 2i in my system, but was quite disappointed. Sonically, it was outperformed by my first-gen Dragonfly USB-DAC. I briefly considered adding a DAC, but instead opted for a full replacement (returning the node 2i) with a Cambridge Audio Azure 851N. Dual-mono DAC construction, streamer, DSD, balanced out, about EUR1.5k. |
I have the same and I’ve gone pretty deep down the rabbit hole, but I did it in steps. In my opinion it was well worth it. First thing is to use a wired Ethernet connection, I use a fiber optic bridge from my router. Second thing I did was upgrade that janky power cord with a wireworld one. Okay, sq has definitely gotten better. Next was getting a mytek liberty dac. Lucked out and found an open box deal on one. Lastly, no being able to leave well enough alone, adding a sbooster LPS to the mytek. Wow! I’m blown away! |
I used to have a VPI Aries, JMW 10 Arm, Art Audio Vinyl One Tube Phono stage and various high end MC cartridges that rotated through the system. I also have a Node 2i and went through the same process you are going through now. I got the Musical Paradise D2 DAC. It's wonderful! You must however, consider upgrading the tubes and caps. The supplied rectifier tube is crap, the gain stage tubes are very good but there are better. Also the coupling caps are easily upgraded and make a significant difference. The unit was designed so they could be replaced easily as they are held in with binding posts, they are not soldered. With all these upgrades, my digital source is as good if not better than the analog I had. Also consider streaming Tidal, not so much for MQA but for the access, at times, to multiple masterings of the same releases so you can choose to listen to the best sounding one. Much of the digital I had on CDs did not sound as good as vinyl because the early A to D transfers were not done well. New remasters often are much better. Streaming Tidal ( we don't have Qobuz in Canada) is my way to access these remasters. Lastly, in my experience, a Coax cable from the Node 2i to the MP Dac is the better sounding way to connect them. |
Just an FYI, on the subject of the Node 2i and sorry if it's already been brought up. The BluOS update (3.14.5) this month added support for Radio Paradise, the first internet radio station to stream in MQA. They have 4 MQA stations and 4 CD quality versions of those stations. It's radio, so you get what they send, but it's a free way to sample MQA if you don't have it already. |
I came from same place as you mostly vinyl, hot rodded lp12 and Herron phono. Since you mentioned r2r the MHDT Orchid might work. If you can solder caps are very easy to switch out, you can use 6922 and 6sn7 adapters which can help not being boxed in to one flavor. If you like what you hear you can sell Node and find a nice used streamer. If not the Orchid sells at maybe a loss of $200 and will sell in a day or 2, or find a used one. I've seen MHDT Havana sell for $400 or less its old but nice, I have the Havana and Orchid, Havana may be 80% of the orchid. I also have the current version RME adi-2 and can't say enough good things about it. I have not felt the need to go out and upgrade to more money dac's. Hate to say it but my turntable is not being used like it use to. |
There are dacs out there that sound just as good as vinyl, read the reviews on the wyred for sound 10th anniversary. Go to their site and look up the review by 10 audio, the reviewer put it up against this VPI turntable with a 5800.00 Japanese cartridge and he said that the 10th anniversary dac was neck and neck with his VPI turntable. One of the most analog sounding dacs I've heard at any price. |
Wow, lots of great suggestions. On my short list so far is the Denafrips Ares II, the Musical Paradise MP-D2, and the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M. I'm slightly hesitant on the Denafrips only because of having to ship overseas for ant waranty work. I like the idea of a tube output stage on the Musical Paradise. I like the Cambridge for price and completeness of features, and I can get up to 60 days trial depending on where I buy from. Keep em coming, you guys are a great resource. |
I highly recommend Cherry DAC. Small Designer/Owner run company that does everything in house. Been in business for 20+ years. Stands behind his products. No outsourcing or use of off the shelf parts produced by someone else. They are balanced. The specs are top notch and they sound very musical. I am including the URL for his website. Two of the Cherry Dacs are currently on AudioMart well within your price range. checkout the DACs made by Digital Amplifier Company: https://www.cherryamp.com/dac-dac-d-to-a-convertor |
Hi, Has you stated adding a external DAC will improve the quality. I’ve owned a Bluesound node 2i and they are very capable machines. I remember when I changed the power cord to an audio grade one the base got tighter and the unit was slightly quicker. At that time, I then bought a Musical Fidelity V90-DAC that only does PMC but upscale the music to 32bit depth and it was great. I can’t remember if it allows you to pass I2S to the DAC. Don’t get me wrong the node 2i is great streaming machine but has good has it is, In my opinion, it is missing on native DSD functionality, and it is not not balance circuitry. If you want to keep using the node 2i has a streaming device then this points should be taken in to consideration when buying a DAC has they limit your option. Hope this helps Fil |
The Denafrips Ares-2 nine better or more anti digital glare a true high end bargain , and these R2R dacs get nigh5 and day better when you have say $3-5 k Denafrips terminator, holospring May dac, lab12 reference tube dac also for under $1k the very good vacuum tube Black ice audio wifi dac .actually under $800 |
Hi @vinylzone, You obviously appreciate high quality analogue playback and devote more money in that direction than digital (Limiting DAC to 500-1000.00. USD). So digital may be relegated to 2nd status. Given the price constraints I believe that jjss49 offered excellent recommendations. Particularly the final 2 choices on his list. I suspect that you’d be attracted to a more natural musical presentation. Both the MHDT and Musical Paradise would serve you well. Both eschew OP-AMPS in the important analogue output stage and utilize no negative feedback (NFB) circuits. The Musical Paradise also offers an exceptionally stout power supply (Two separate power transformers). Either would represent a significant step up in sound quality compared to your current internal DAC. Charles |
In building reference DACs with both R2R and Sabre 32 bit chips each has their own sound. The R2R generally sounds a little more musical, more dimensional, and a little more relaxed. The Chip generally sounds not as dimensional but usually more extended top end, faster, cleaner, and sometimes quieter. Trade offs aalways. |
@fuzztone1, I listen to vinyl all the time, very little digital except background music and in the car, none on my 2 channel system until I got the Node 2i. I have a full featured preamp (soon to be replaced with a better one) that takes care of the tone compensation duty, but most of the time when I listen to my 2 channel system I don’t listen at low levels. When I do I switch in the controls. |
DSD is the preferred repro method nowadaze, talk to Cookie @ BlueCoast You can play it on most streamers starting at a $100 Ras Pi 4. No stoopid computer. Your vinyl set up is like a Bentley and your digital a Yugo. Do you want to hear what’s out there? I’m not sure. If you're not interested in loudness you don't ever listen at low volumes with full enjoyment. Even on your Bentley class sys. I have to get up and switch in a Loki etc. for that. |
Might want to check out RME. Can likely find a demo ADI-2 demo with full warranty right around 1k. Great sound and TONS of features which you may or may not use. I find the EQ and loudness function useful at times.Thanks for that. My vinyl setup is a modified VPI TNT4 (air bladders are connected to an air compressor with a precision low pressure regulator) with TNT5 bearing, Eminent Technology 2.5 modified for use with air compressor, also with a precision low pressure regulator, Current cart is a retipped Supex SDX-1100r thru a modified Supex SDT-722 stepup transformer into the MM section of a Herron VTPH-2a. I also have a NOS Audioquest B100 on another armtube that I run straight into the Herron MC stage, plus a few other cartridges that don’t see playing time right now. |
Multibit is just a propriety filter on Schitt DACs. They don’t do DSD. I have one, you can do better. Spend up a hair for the RME AD2. Or buy used, plenty in Europe - they are German. Along with great sound you get a fine headphone amp and configurable remote loudness plus. You can do better than the BluOS app but that’s another matter. |
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