2. digital
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Got a Node 2i, what's next?

So, I admit that I'm not much of a digital guy.  I ordered an Node 2i for the main HT system mostly for Amazon HD.  Much better than roku --> Denon AVR-X3600.  I liked it so much I ordered another for my previously all analog 2 channel system.

It's not bad, and convenient. Not even close to vinyl on the same release and level matched recordings, but then again, I didn't expect it to be.  I keep reading about how you can easily improve the sound by adding in an external DAC.  Here's where I get confused.

I don't want to spend a lot on a DAC, because at best it's a secondary source.  I'd feel comfortable in the $500 - $1000 range, but I'm really confused over the options and how they relate to sound quality.

First, r/2r vs I guess delta sigma?  What are the sonic advantages of either, there are widely differing opinions there.  I understand how each works from reading around, but how does it relate to sound quality?

Second, multibit vs whatever else.  Same basic questions, what are the basic sound characteristics of each?

Third, oversampling or no.

And lastly, what bitrate/bit depth is considered adequate?  24/192 seems to be standard but some dacs only have 24/128 over optical.  Will this make any difference real world with HD streaming?  I also have an old NAD cd player with coax digital out I might want to hook up for kicks.

I've researched three so far, the Denefrips Ares II, , the Schiit offerings below $1K, and the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M.  I would like to have balanced outputs to keep the digital circuitry as far away from the analog stuff as possible.

Thanks in advance for your answers.



vinylzone

Showing 14 responses by vinylzone

vinylzone OP
288 posts
 
Thanks for those. Unfortunately, most aren't balanced, at least the ones in my preferred price range.

The Musical Paradise looks interesting but I'd have no idea which dac to choose and what it would mean for the sound.



vinylzone OP
288 posts
 
Multibit is just a propriety filter on Schitt DACs.
They don’t do DSD.
Isn't DSD Mostly for computer interfaces?  If so I don't need it.

I'm not really interested in a headphone amp, or signal processing on the dac.  Not that I would rule the features out, but I probably would never use them.  
vinylzone OP
288 posts
 
@fuzztone1,

I listen to vinyl all the time, very little digital except background music and in the car, none on my 2 channel system until I got the Node 2i.

I have a full featured preamp (soon to be replaced with a better one) that takes care of the tone compensation duty, but most of the time when I listen to my 2 channel system I don’t listen at low levels. When I do I switch in the controls.
vinylzone OP
288 posts
 
@bigkidz ,

Thanks for the explanation. I think given my tastes, the R2R sounds attractive.  Great information.
vinylzone OP
288 posts
 
Might want to check out RME. Can likely find a demo ADI-2 demo with full warranty right around 1k. Great sound and TONS of features which you may or may not use. I find the EQ and loudness function useful at times.
Just curious what is you vinyl setup you are comparing to?
Thanks for that.

My vinyl setup is a modified VPI TNT4 (air bladders are connected to an air compressor with a precision low pressure regulator) with TNT5 bearing, Eminent Technology 2.5 modified for use with air compressor, also with a precision low pressure regulator, Current cart is a retipped Supex SDX-1100r thru a modified Supex SDT-722 stepup transformer into the MM section of a Herron VTPH-2a. I also have a NOS Audioquest B100 on another armtube that I run straight into the Herron MC stage, plus a few other cartridges that don’t see playing time right now.
vinylzone OP
288 posts
 
My advice is to send your node 2i back, and get the Cambridge Audio CXN V2 which has a good dac built in. It runs about $1k and includes your dac and streamer
Not an option, it doesn't support Amazon HD, only SD via chromecast.  The wife is used to Amazon, and I'd get all kinds of grief if she had to learn other interfaces.  The wife and technology don't mix well.
vinylzone OP
288 posts
 
Wow, lots of great suggestions.  On my short list so far is the Denafrips Ares II, the Musical Paradise MP-D2, and the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M.

I'm slightly hesitant on the Denafrips only because of having to ship overseas for ant waranty work.  I like the idea of a tube output stage on the Musical Paradise.  I like the Cambridge for price and completeness of features, and I can get up to 60 days trial depending on where I buy from.

Keep em coming, you guys are a great resource.



vinylzone OP
288 posts
 
IMHO, I wouldn't limit yourself to balanced outputs. I think for this application it's not going to make THAT significant a difference.

I'm looking for balanced because the difference it would make is purely placement.  Currently, my analog gear including my 2 channel preamp is 40 feet of cable run away from the power amp, which is located near the TV/HT system where the power amp (and main speakers) are hooked up to both systems.  I want to locate the digital gear as far away from the analog stuff as I can.
vinylzone OP
288 posts
 
A lot to process since last night. I want to make a few points/clarifications.

I am only using Amazon HD for a streaming service. I am not currently planning to expand to other services. The BluOS phone/tablet app works just fine for this, and my technologically challenged wife is happy. especially with the presets on the phone app.

On the Node 2i, network is hard wired back to the router. Variable volume is off. 0 problems due to streaming, better than using roku, so I’m happy there.

I don’t think the Node sounds awful, just very digital in a 90’s sort of way. When I still was giving digital a try back in the 90’s, I had a Sonographe SD22 CD player that was somewhat analog like to the limits of what CDs sounded like at the time. I guess a more analog sound is what I’m looking for, not to get a digital setup to rival my analog.

When I say digital will be a at best a secondary source, I am talking about in my system. I don’t want to get into debates of what formats are capable of. I like analog, and am still actively buying records. My analog front end will always be my primary source, at least until I am unable to get up and change records :).

The $500-$1000 budget is self imposed. I could go a lot higher, but there are other priorities in my system that I’d rather put money into for the foreseeable future. Once those are done, I might feel differently about what I’m willing to spend on digital, but that’s a ways off.



vinylzone OP
288 posts
 
Frankly, I get a laugh from the guys who buy low bucks for digital because it couldn't be as good, and then of course it isn't because they bought entry level stuff and hooked it up with whatever they had left over lying around, because they didn't want to spend money there either.
Seriously, I have no opinion on how good digital can be because at this point I just don't care.  FYI, I have already replaced the power cords (I build my own).  I'm using the same interconnect between the node and my preamp as I am between the Herron and the preamp, also DIY.  I've been making my own cables since the 90's, and even sold some of them back then to other audiophiles.

At this point, I just want the digital setup to not give me a headache after an hour, so I can use it for background music or to check out some new music.  Maybe sometime in the future I'll look at digital seriously.  Maybe not.
vinylzone OP
288 posts
 
@mahler123
Listening is subjective, but I couldn’t disagree more with the OP statement that the Node sounds like it’s out of the 1990s, not if it’s paired with a decent DAC.
That is the point of my thread.  I'm looking for a dac in the $500-$1k price range to pair with the node 2i.  Not sure how you missed that.

The included DAC with the Node is very limiting—it would be like listening to a turntable with a $20 cartridge. Since the OP seems not to care, basing all his judgements of digital on low end stuff, I wonder what he is trying to achieve with this thread.
See above.

Sorry to be curmudgeonly, but I get tired of people posting here “I don’t like digital, I am not willing to make any investment to be persuaded otherwise, but recommend me something cheap that will blow me away”.
What thread were you reading? 

I'm not looking for state of the art, at least right now.  I'm looking for the best sound I can find in a dac within my current budget.    I'm not looking to be "blown away".  I don't dislike digital in principal.  You already agreed that the Node internal dac isn't adequate.

So, I really don't understand the basis for your rant.


vinylzone OP
288 posts
 
I own the Node 2i and love it. There are better DACs like a Lumin D2. Based on what you are using it for do not upgrade by getting a cheap DAC. I have compared that DAC in the Node 2i with other DACs costing more than the Node2i. Unless you want to change the sound signature do not waste your money unless you go past $1,000.

I’m starting to think this may be the best way to go.

I left the Node 2i streaming 24/7 over the weekend and into last night to see if a significant break-in made a difference.

Last night, my wife’s sister called (usually around a hour of the wife yelling back and forth that I didn’t want to listen to), so I retreated to the listening room waiting for the "I’m done" text.

I didn’t feel like firing up the turntable, so I decided to sit down and listen to the node 2i. I just threw on my classic rock playlist, and the first couple of songs were OK. Then Whole Lotta Love from a remaster of LZII. I was actually surprised at how good it sounded, so I queued up the whole album.

Ok, so it wasn’t perfect, not quite as good as the vinyl, but almost everything was there frequency and detail wise , and the imaging was almost holographic, seeming to extend behind and in front of the speakers. Not as emotionally engaging as the early vinyl pressing. I wouldn’t quite call the sound bright, but maybe slightly harsh at the top. Symbols weren’t quite right, but close. Overall, listenable, and a bit surprising.

I listened to a few other tracks, and came to the conclusion that although the break-in time had something to do with it, most of the issues I was hearing before probably has much more to do with the quality or lack thereof of recording, which no dac will really fix.

I’m still on the fence, but now I’m seriously considering that I might just stick with the Node 2i, make the other changes I want to my system, and then revisit the dac thing with a higher budget in mind once that’s done.
vinylzone OP
288 posts
 
@midareff

  @vinylzone .... that’s very easily accomplished. If you have reached the point where your audio resolution is detailed enough to reveal the difference between interconnects and you want to put some time and effort in you will probably find your home brew is far from the best.

Again I'm not looking for world beating digital right now.  And yes, I don't have anything in my system that cost me less than $500 except some accessories.  

I've had systems that easily reveal differences in cables for the past 40 or so years.  That's why I make my own.  Not that I've tried thousands of cables, but I've compared them to some very costly cables, and what I've found is that either some very expensive cables are meant to fix problems with certain components or system sonics, or they're really very good and but extremely overpriced.

I use some of the best copper and connectors available, and I use an interesting geometry I stumbled onto around 30 years ago.  I also built my own cable conditioner device.  They measure 73pF per meter and take me about 8 hours per meter pair to construct.

So yeah, you can spend thousands on a cable that works well in your system.  I don't have to.

vinylzone OP
288 posts
 
I'm holding off on a separate DAC for now until I get some other things in order.  I think I have my preamp set now.  I'm going to get a few small things sorted out on my analog rig first, and then it's a tossup on whether I go with a new power amp or the dac at a higher budget than the $1k I specified.

And honestly, I think that my old preamp was partly responsible for the glare I was hearing with the Node.  It's not nearly as prominent now, and detail is quite a bit better, so I can live with the Node for now as I use it mostly for background and checking out new and different music.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
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