Furutech Nanoflux speaker cables

Awwww...the sheep got their feelings hurt...

@grunge1000 I think the standard response to dismiss your findings is "Your system must not be resolving enough". 

Never drink the Kool-Aid!

@pinwa 

When you wrote " It isn't like I don't understand the basic physics and electrical engineering that supposedly governs what a cable can and can't do" I came to the conclusion you might be a physicist.  You said Wilson puppies needed spade connectors and elsewhere you have described blowing up several of their tweeters, so I assumed these might be the speakers you were using.

I would like to believe you when you say the cables are directional.  Usually this means cables are shielded and only one end of the shield is grounded, and this normally applies to interconnects.  On Furutech's website there is a diagram which indicates the speaker cable is shielded, but there is no indication of whether the shield is grounded!  There is the equivalent of a choke which removes some EMI.  The main conductors seem very close together, so I suspect this is a high capacitance cable which rolls of some high frequencies.

By the way, I use spade connectors on my Quad electrostatics (ESL-2905) which are regarded as very accurate transducers and have amplifier-like specifications.  In a rash moment I bought a secondhand cable set with banana connectors for my KEF Reference 1 speakers.  I have not got around to bi-wiring or cable swapping because I am very happy with what I am hearing!

@stephenjfoster,

I could not agree more. My speaker cables cost me a few hundred bucks and I over spent on that. I have been listening to music for many years on many systems and have never found a speaker cable that made a sonic difference. 

@pinwa 

You and my ex-wife may be right, but I am at peace with myself. I'm aware I have many faults and much to learn.

Never said you were stupid; you are obviously very intelligent and may well be smarter than me.

Never commented on sound quality. Simply stated that any cable that carries an Alternating current signal can't be directional. I stand by that statement. The connectors may only fit one way, that's a mechanical thing, not electrical.

I hold 3 degrees in science, and what you're doing ain't science!

The Scientific method requires:

1. Formulation of a theory

2. BLIND testing of the theory (something audiophiles never agree to)

3. Obtaining Quantifiable, repeatable results (not subjective or observations)

4, Publication of your methods and results

5. Review by your peers (i.e. other scientists need to be able to repeat your results)

I'm done. Wasted too much time trying to convince a true believer. I guess I'm not that bright after all.

I was looking at my Furetech cable splitters and they have an arrow on them, it's hard to see but it's there.  

@stephenjfoster For some reason you seem to think there is an element of religion or faith involved in any of this while forgetting that science is based on observation and experience.  Now I agree with you that subjective experience should be viewed with skepticism.  And a simple model of electricity would assume that LCR (inductance, capacitance, and resistance) is adequate to explain how cables work. That would suggest that all cables with identical LCR are the same. In fact, there are all sorts of credible explanations about how changes in the geometry, materials, shielding, and quality of construction can impact the signal.  Figuring out which, if any of them, are true isn't something I care about.

I started the journey buying spools of 12AWG OFC copper from Amazon.  It is only my experience based on years of critical listening and hundreds of level matched A-B comparisons that ever caused my hard earned dollars to be spent on anything as frivolous as cables.  

For me, the bottom line is even though I am not religious, if God appeared before me you can be d*mn sure I would change my mind and become a believer (after checking for mental illness).  You could discount it as my subjective experience, in the same way you discount that cables can make a difference, but for me it would simply become a new fact about the world.

You might want to spend a moment on self-reflection.  You aren't an audiophile and you haven't posted any information that any well educated person who has spent a week in this hobby doesn't already know.  For some reason you made strident and insulting posts that assume everybody else is stupider and less informed than you are.  Maybe your ex-wife is right?

@brunomarcs Thank you.  Finally a post that actually contains useful information.  I had missed that nugget of info buried in Furutech's marketing BS.  For anybody else interested in this the actual text is:

"Furutech specifies α (Alpha) Nano-Au-Ag OCC Pure Transmission conductors - one of the best conductors Furutech engineers have found for sound reproduction - terminated with beautifully engineered high-performance rhodium-plated nonmagnetic pure copper spade connectors for the amplifier end and rhodium-plated banana connectors at the other end. "

And you are wrong, I wasn't trying to drum up anything.  Perhaps it was naive of me to hope that I would get a response from somebody who actually owned the cables rather than a bunch of people with opinions based on, well nothing.  But this is Audiogon and pointless debates between uninformed people seems to be the main reason for this site.

It does still leave open the question of whether the company that sold my friend his cables simply ignored his request to terminate the cables in the opposite of the standard way.  He has contacted them and I will post whatever response he gets.  

@cleeds 

I have been called worse, mostly by my ex-wife. I read these forums to learn about hifi equipment and music. Most members know much more about the subject than  I do. Some have a better science or engineering background. Too many don't recognize the role of the mind over our perception (although everything else matters) The problem becomes trying to sort out the useful information from the delusional crap. Same problem I have with the news, I read multiple sources from CNN to FOX, figuring the truth is somewhere in between.

I don't consider myself an audiophile, I'm just not that anal. I love music and movies. I'm willing to spend 10s of thousands for high quality equipment. I believe in quality cables but IMO anything more than a few hundred is a waste of money.

I probably need to learn to keep my mouth shut but my filter seems to be weakening with old age. When someone tries to claim an AC signal cable is directional in violation of the laws of physics I snaped. I will try to keep my opinion to myself. As I said, it is a waste of time to argue with the faithful.

stephenjfoster

I simply try to sort out the sensible folks from the delusional and stopped going to church when I was 18. I pretty much read these topics for laughs and to figure out who to ignore.

So you're a self-confessed troll.

Extrapolating from Furutech balanced ICs like Reference III, which cannot be reversed for obvious reasons, the filter would go at the source end, as @roxy54 said.

I went back and re read your post. The manufacturer says they build these cables with spades on amp end and bananas on the speaker end, that would be the directionality of said cables. Other combination of ends if requested, so if you were to buy these they would most definitely have an arrow on them or other tell tale sign on which direction they go.
 

 They would say which way they go and your asking members here how they would know which direction?

You were trying to drum up some criticism and start a cable bashing from a member, you've stated your purpose's in your  last post,  that's my take on it. 
 

if you were genuinely interested,  you'd asked if someone else had these cables to begin with and how do they know which direction?

@richardbrand I am not a physicist nor do I own speakers that only accept spades.  I'm certainly not going to argue that Furutech's marketing makes any sense.  In fact, I would agree that it sounds more like nonsense.  And if you read what I have written,you will find that I haven't expressed any opinion about the cables other than noting that they sound different depending on which end is connected to the amp and which end is connected to the speakers.  

I believe there have now been 12 people that have responded to this thread and not a single one actually knows anything about these cables and I suspect most of them haven't ever bothered to compare cables in a highly resolving system.  But all of those people seem certain that they actually know some sort of absolute truth, but without being in possession of any actual experience or observations that would lend any credibility to their assertions.  Curious isn't it?

@pinwa

I looked at Furutech’s website as quoted by @gkelly, and assumed that, like Oscar Wilde, you would be easily satisfied by the best! Sounds as if you knew the answer anyway because you borrowed custom cables terminated in reverse.

Furutech also says its NCF "generates negative ions that eliminate static. Second, it converts thermal energy into far infrared. Furutech combines this remarkable material with nano-sized ceramic particles and carbon powder for their additional ’piezoelectric effect’ damping properties".

As a physicist I am sure you will agree that negative ions increase static, which is a surplus of electrons. As for converting thermal energy into infra-red, that’s what everything does around room temperature. But wait, there’s more: mechanical vibrations are converted using the piezo effect into yet more electrons, presumably to give some added snap, crackle and pop!

But now I am really confused - the borrowed cables have spades on one end and bananas on the other and you hear a difference when they are swapped, but your speakers only accept spades. What gives?

@pinwa "Someday I hope you and @roadcykler and all the other deniers actually get to hear high end systems that permit you to do A/B listening tests of different components that simply can’t possibly make a difference but do. Hearing is believing."

I’ve come across MANY many people in the audio hobby that can’t tell the difference between amps and between dacs. To believe these people can tell the difference if they just give cables a try is just not gonna happen.

" I agree it is a little unusual to specify spades for the speakers"

If you have kids, they can easily break off the banana plugs when inside the speaker if they just step on it. I’ve had it happened before. Spade would be almost impossible to break in this situation.

One final note I'd like to add about cable. The cable deniers also never care for the quality of the terminal connectors of cable. Which IMO is silly thinking. 

@gkelly The guy I borrowed these from showed me the invoice where he specified bananas at the amp end and spades at the speaker end.  He must be the one in a million.  And The Cable Company lets you specify terminations for each end of the cable according to amp and speaker sides.  I agree it is a little unusual to specify spades for the speakers but you need to realize that every Wilson speaker made only takes spades so definitely not one in a million there.

The simple fact is where the terminations are doesn't say anything about what directionality the cables might have.

Top-of-the-Line Furutech Nanoflux NCF Speaker Cable
Comes with CF-201 NCF(R) Spades for the Amplifier and CF-202 NCF(R)
Bananas for the Speaker Other Combinations on Request

this is off their website, unless you have the one in 1 million where a guy orders it the opposite. Most likely when they talk about other combinations it’s spade to spade or banana to banana. Also there are different sizes of spade connectors,

i’m pretty sure that if you hook them up the way the manufacturer says and leave them there for a couple days and then do a switcheroo. You will definitely be able to tell which way is correct hopefully.

sorry about having to deal with the CDs(Cable deniers). I remember once when I got a pair of MIT Speaker cables that made it so that you could hear the ridges of the thumb as it strummed across guitar Yet after a week, it began to hurt my ear so bad that I ripped them out of the system. Luckily for me I found The Cable Company and they gave me a really good trade-in and now I’m rocking synergetic research foundation speaker, and four power cables(Plus some Audioquest, monsoon, black beauty, carbon special cables) No way does lamp cord sounds this good.

@pinwa and god created the earth in 6 days a few thousand years ago.

My point was it is a waste of time to try and reason with the true believers. Logic just doesn't apply in your world.

Enjoy your system.

@richardbrand If you actually look at any website that lets you purchase these cables, instead of generalizing from other cables, you would see that you can specify whatever connector you want for either end.  They don't "come" configured a specific way.  

@stephenjfoster Believe what you will, but unless you are willing to listen your opinion has no real validity in my opinion.  It isn't like I don't understand the basic physics and electrical engineering that supposedly governs what a cable can and can't do.

Given that a sound signal is essentially an Alternating Current of varying frequency (i.e. the electrons are flowing in BOTH directions), I don't see how a cable can possibly be directional. I also understand that this hobby is very much like a religion where its followers believe what they will, and no amount of logic will change that. I simply try to sort out the sensible folks from the delusional and stopped going to church when I was 18. I pretty much read these topics for laughs and to figure out who to ignore.

I use a  couple of vintage MIT cables with their magic boxes on one side. Filter?, I could not say, but the boxes always go at the output. So, back to the previous post.

When there is a difference and it is not immediately clear which is better, simply install it one way and live with it for a couple weeks. Your ears will adapt to that sound. Then reverse and you will be able to discern the qualitative differences.

I could tell an immediate difference between Kimber cable 12 tc when I went with  Furetech DSS-4.1 with the their top end spades and bananas.  There is an arrow for direction of said cable and I run them like this, doubt I could ever tell a difference in direction but doesn't hurt to use as directed right? 

Seems they come with spade connectors for the amplifier end and banana connections for the speaker end.

Interesting that the OP can hear a difference but does not know which is 'better'.  I accept there may be a real subjective difference, but to be objective, the comparison should be with unamplified live music.  (Amplifiers, loudspeakers and microphones introduce their own distortions).  The direction that sounds more realistic should be counted as the better.

If there is a difference, should there be twice the difference if the cable length is doubled?

@quickjack1234 The moment you step up from lamp cord, assuming the impedance, resistance and capacitance of whatever other cable you are using is the same, that is the moment you have left the realm of whatever it is you think can be measured by "audio engineers".  So if you are a cable denying objectivist that is fine.  But if you are spending your money on anything other than a mechanical transducer then are are also a hypocrite LOL.  

Someday I hope you and @roadcykler and all the other deniers actually get to hear high end systems that permit you to do A/B listening tests of different components that simply can't possibly make a difference but do.  Hearing is believing.

i believe i have seen many YT vids by audio engineers w/ test equip FAR beyond high school physics! dissing the directionality thing so i seldom see any proof someone does blind A -B tests when they insist they can hear a difference ! 
so of course noone believes you why should they? 
you refuse to test reasonably and fairly 
real science means you test variables realistically and empiricly so called "cable deniers " are IME honest people reasonably expecting proof SHOW it ! 
you can certainly get a few steps up fr lamp cord and not spend silly $ 

@roadcykler You got to love the cable deniers who think they are in possession of an ultimate truth and who can't be bothered to even listen for the differences that their high school physics courses can't explain. Enjoy your lamp cord and if you ever get around to actually using your ears feel free to apologize for your particular brand of nonsense.  In the meantime, please stop trolling and polluting other peoples threads.

No cable of any kind is directional unless it is made with some electrical component (like a diode) in-line between the amp and speaker. If you (generally) believe electricity can recognize one cable from another, you don't understand electricity. 

I attach them as goes the writing

@gkelly As far as I can tell there is no writing on the cables that could be interpreted that way.

@roxy54 Thanks.  I suspect you are right but I would like certainty rather than probability LOL.

Usually, as you said, the filter is closest to the source component.

I have always gone with the direction that the writing along the cables. You read from left to right so should be the direction of the cable.