I want to meet the "Friends of Anna"...who are these people? What do they look like? Where do they go after they're through with Anna? Do these people walk among us? What kind of shoes do they wear? Are their watches automatic? |
Wolf,
so you've heard the Anna? |
All you need to know about mike L:
www.goodsoundclub.com/GetPost.aspx?PostID=2013 |
I've owned an Ortofon MC Anna for 14 months. And how is that relevant to the discussion? |
ok. I get it. you guys have no interest in actual owner feedback on the Anna.
I would have expected that information from extended use would be pertinent to discussion of the review.
sorry to have bothered. |
Mike I think people have just taken notice of an 'outlier' from the norm review of an expensive piece of gear ($8K cart) that was defective multiple times. It naturally raises concern about quality control of this specific model - not Ortofon in general.
Clearly Ortofon is stretching the boundaries of manufacturing with the Anna and its complex, sophisticated design. I also think that a 14 mo review from you about its great sound and zero problems along with a few others you know with the Anna having a similar good experience is very important to the discussion.
I also think Jeff Catalano at HWS has been spinning an Anna for a few months without any issues too.
Again probably the Fremer experience was an 'outlier' but justifiably unnerving. And good experiences like yours is great to hear and reassure propsective buyers. I have no doubt that someone from Ortofon has to be watching this thread (those industry guys in high end are everywhere!).
By the way, as much venom and lack of objectivity that Romy the Cat guy spews, why would anyone listen to him? Credibitlity factor is low with that guy from what I have read from him. Strong opinions, objectivity lacking. |
I have NOT heard the Anna. I have to use my imagination to construct its sound based on reviews and opinion. So far it sounds fine in my head but it does need VTA adjustment. |
Yeah Wolf, I haven't heard it either. And at $8500 its out of my price range. But when Mike says its the best sounding cart he's had in his system (and I believe my memory serves he's had some stellar ones) then the Anna must be something. And for the price, she better be!
I probably won't get to hear an Anna until I go to one of the audio shows. And even then, I really won't know what I am hearing as the room and associated gear I will likely not be familiar with. Sigh..... |
Mikelavigne, my post about relevancy was meant as humor. My true opinion on this topic is contained in my earlier post dated 5/5. As an actual owner/user of the Anna I welcome your comments. I can only speculate as to whether the OP welcomes your comments in that he seems to have made up his mind, along with others, about the Anna "debacle". Yes, someone actually used that word to describe the course of events outlined in the review. |
The best Cartridge is always
- the more expensive one
or
- the next |
As a general comment, I still think genius exists more in the ability to make great things that aren't "cost no object" and work really well. I'm often stunned at how beautiful my analog rig sounds with great recordings...and the used Linn/Akito table (rewired with a Jelco Mogami din cable) with a newer Sumiko Pearl (laughably inexpensive) into a Cambridge 640p absolutely astonishes. The State of the Art is always interesting, but when lunacy takes over as it did with Fremer's article there is just too much mirth to ignore. |
Judyasblues, Did you notice that that bit of slander from Romy the Cat was written in 2006? Mike himself has admitted that he was a bit naive in those days in his choice of audio gear, and by all accounts including his, he has come a long way since then, even assuming that Romy really did the extensive investigation that he claims, to back up his colorful insults. Can you give Mike a break, or do you think this is brain surgery with life or death consequences? In any case, dredging up that sludge from seven years ago is bad taste and mean-spirited on your part. I for one am happy to have the opinion of one of the few people who has actually heard the Anna against many comparably priced and highly touted cartridges, in his own system. |
Somewhere out there is a $100 cartridge that beats all. I'm convinced. Just haven't found it yet. OK, maybe $500.
There is a fine line to walk. One may not "like" the fact that there are cartridges that cost more than $10K, but one should keep an open mind that such expensive trifles might actually sound really good. In someone else's house. |
My Sumiko Pearl cost $125...so it's not that one. |
Why is that no one questions the person who buys and loves a $500K Ferrari, yet the person who buys and loves an audio component costing more than [insert critic's preferred standard] is vilified?
There are no websites dedicated to the proposition that all cars are created equal, that a well tuned Fiat is as good as a Lamborghini, that the Mercedes E-class owner is misguided and foolish. Yet we find reasonably popular audio websites (e.g., Audioholics) which fervently promote cheap as not just a viable way, which it is, but as the only right and justifiable way. Something about audio (more than other hobbies) attracts or generates "my way or the highway" defensiveness that approaches religious fervor. I've been guilty of that attitude myself - it's a peculiar institution.
***
As for Romy, a cautionary tale...
I once visited a new vinylphile who lived near him. The newbie was having trouble with his TT, which Romy had set it up for him just a few days before. I agreed to stop by and take a look.
The rig could barely track anything and sounded terrible. Worse, it was only by cautious practices that I avoided destroying the newbie's $5K LOMC, since the end stub literally fell off in my hand the instant I touched it. Yikes!! I nearly jumped through the ceiling. If I hadn't locked the arm down before touching it the cartridge would have smashed down onto the platter.
Romy's setup had included installing the end stub so that it was just hanging by a thread, with the VTF counterweights adjusted to suit. No one could set up a tonearm this way by chance. The end stub was so wobbly that adjusting the counterweights would have been impossible. The only way to achieve such a setup would be to pre-set the counterweights, then carefully screw the assembly into the arm by less than a turn. This was no mis-adjustment, it was a mal-adjustment.
The newbie was quite wealthy and freely admitted knowing very little about his fancy gear. He'd dumped a large pile of money into a system and expected it to work with little hands-on input. Naive? Certainly. Laughable? If you're that way inclined. Deserving of being booby-trapped to prove him undeserving? Only if you're without conscience, bordering on psychopathic.
There's a reason Romy was kicked off of this and other forums. I hope he's happy talking to the shadow puppets in his little cave.
|
Boy what a dufus, that Romy. |
Dougdeacon
Why is that no one questions the person who buys and loves a $500K Ferrari, yet the person who buys and loves an audio component costing more than [insert critic's preferred standard] is vilified?
There are no websites dedicated to the proposition that all cars are created equal, that a well tuned Fiat is as good as a Lamborghini, that the Mercedes E-class owner is misguided and foolish. Yet we find reasonably popular audio websites (e.g., Audioholics) which fervently promote cheap as not just a viable way, which it is, but as the only right and justifiable way. Something about audio (more than other hobbies) attracts or generates "my way or the highway" defensiveness that approaches religious fervor. I've been guilty of that attitude myself - it's a peculiar institution. Doug, If I may respond just to offer my observations, I don't think anyone is "vilifying" Mike or anyone else who can afford an ultra expensive cartridge. Perhaps Ortofon got some flack in this thread, but I certainly welcomed Mike's and Onhwy61's comments about their Annas. Perhaps what you're referring to is personal animosity and attacks in general that seem to, way too often, accompany discussions on audiophile boards. That is very unfortunate, but is certainly not reserved for those with all-out-assault systems from my personal experience. Regarding the topic of this thread, I was simply astounded by Fremer's experience with a close to $9,000 cartridge, and Ortofon's complete ignorance of the issue in their response. As an audiophile/vinylphile, I have a keen general interest in everything that is related to high-end analog playback, whether I can afford it or not. The proposition that I should not be allowed to comment on a Stereophile article because I don't own an Anna, or am not about to order one, as expressed by Onhwy61, is absurd in my opinion. I also think your analogy to uber-expensive cars with respect to high-end music reproduction equipment, albeit tempting, is not exactly apples to apples. I think we'd all agree that high-end audio is unique in high-end consumer product industries as it often preys on the naivety, ignorance, or cluelessness, or combination of all three, of many audiophiles and sells overpriced products where more attention went to the packaging than quality of the parts and actual sound. Hence you have the value vs. price criticism that is a common theme in audiophile discussions. I don't have a clue whether a Ferrari is worth its price on paper, but I do know that when you get one, you expect nothing short of a flawless driving machine, and nobody would accept anything less, which is often not the case in the high-end audio market. So any comparison of a $500,000 Ferrari to car in a different, lesser class would be preposterous to anyone who knows anything about cars, let alone experts. That said, I'm sure you could find a few people who would find a Buick more comfortable than a Lamborghini, and better suited to what they think is the whole purpose of a car: to get you from place A to place B at a much lower price... |
Hi Actusreus,
Thanks for reading and responding to my little story and sorry if I took your thread OT.
The person who pointed to RtC was indeed vilifying. His comments have been vile for as long as he's been around. I stand by that characterization.
My car example might not have been the most apropos, sorry, but there are other examples that resemble high end audio in their price extremes. Take other luxury consumer items like jewelry, designer perfumes, cosmetics and clothes, etc. Is a Tumi shoulder bag from Nordstroms or a 1 oz. bottle of perfume really worth $800 when I can buy a similar looking and functionally equivalent item for 1/10 the price at Macy's, or 1/100 the price at Target? Is a diamond earring really worth what it costs? We all know the markups on such products can match the most extreme ones found in audio, yet nobody spends time posting about how outrageous they are. They just buy whatever they're comfortable with and have done with it. I still believe there's something special about audio that brings out emotional responses like few other subjects.
That said, products should indeed work as designed and advertised, particularly premium-priced products. No quarrel there and you've every right to bring it up for discussion. Fremer may in fact have buried the Anna by divulging the problems he had. Perhaps that was his intent, to damn with faint praise. If so, it was artfully done. Ortofon may pay a price in lost sales for their apparent clumsiness. One needn't always call a spade a spade to help people recognize what's being shovelled. ;-)
|
I do not nor have ever owned any Ortofon cartridge let alone the Anna model. At an MSRP of $8,500 it would be more expensive than any single component I have ever purchased. That plus the critical nature of the setup, very low output and high retip costs means I will never own an Anna. Besides, I'm a Benz-Micro Ruby kind of guy.
Everybody has a right to express their opinion, but don't be surprised if someone else expresses an opinion about your opinion. You're outraged about the Anna's performance or lack thereof. Well I'm outraged about the level of your outrage. I think some of the comments here are way over the top. Particularly so if, like me, you are not in a position to judge the Anna's relative value. |
One other point that deserves to be mentioned regarding the analogy of high end auto to high end audio (hmmm, only differing by 2 letters...coincidence???) is that there are generally accepted objective performance criteria for autos. Horsepower, torque, 0-60, 0-100, 100-0, skid pad G force. Subjective criteria also fairly well identified. Beauty, creature comfort, reliability. [Of course, NO ONE expects a high performance auto to rate high on reliability. But we do damn sure expect that when the dealership delivers it that it will start when asked and that the wheels will not fall off on the way home] W high perf. audio, we can measure some of the performance criteria (wow, flutter, certain kinds of distortion), cannot measure some, cannot agree on others (PRAT, "jump factor") and can agree that some are immune to measurement (ability to convey artist's intent...etc.) So I think that w such a subjective, potentially expensive, and emotionally involving past-time, people are more apt to have passionate disagreements. Also for whatever reason, with the large number of small manufacturers involved, it tends to be more "personal", and when it's personal, again, it has a tendency to become more emotional.
Also, not to be argumentative, but the folks who "tune" and race WRXs probably have no use for the guy who walks in, drops 180Gs on a Porsche 911 Turbo S and then blows them off at a stoplight.
Rant over. Doug, call me if you are still interested in talking about things swampy! Sorry for going OT, Acutusreus. |
Onhwy61, I read your comment in one of your post, "As an actual owner/user of the Anna I welcome your comments," to mean you owned an Anna. My bad. You're outraged about the Anna's performance or lack thereof. Well I'm outraged about the level of your outrage. I think some of the comments here are way over the top. Particularly so if, like me, you are not in a position to judge the Anna's relative value. I think you are misinterpreting what my original post was about. If not, we just might have to agree to disagree. I only commented on Fremer's experience while reviewing the Annas, not the performance of the product. I can't be outraged about the cartridge's performance since I've never heard it, and Fremer in the end gave it a stellar review. But as a vinylphile I was astounded (rage is definitely not what I felt, btw) reading the review. Astounded that it would take three units to finally get to a properly functioning unit and conduct a review of its actual performance, given its price and who was reviewing it. As a vinyphile with a passionate interest in anything analog-related, this to me is a perfect thing to bring up and discuss on an analog forum, regardless whether I currently own this cartridge. It either was a very odd and freaky set of circumstances or Ortofon has a problem that needs to be addressed. So yes, it should put a question mark on the Anna's value especially after Ortofon failed to address the issue in their comments, and we don't know why the problems occurred. That's why comments from actual owners are very useful in the discussion, and I certainly welcomed Mike's feedback. Why certain others chose to turn it into a personal criticism, I cannot answer. |
Doug and Swapmwalker, Your comments are always welcome so no need to apologize, especially after the thread took a wayward turn anyway. I still believe there's something special about audio that brings out emotional responses like few other subjects. I definitely agree. I also think Swapwalker made a good point regarding objective criteria in the high-end car industry vs. a more subjective nature of the high-end audio industry in comparison, which I think also applies to other luxury products you mentioned. The prices commanded can be for the most part explained by the laws of supply and demand, and further categorized by easily verifiable criteria such as diamond cut, clarity, color; Rolex model and materials used; same for Ferrari and other exotic makes; manufacture quality of a bag, etc. Sure the brand itself commands a premium, but the brand signifies top quality and performance, which can be more objectively verified than in the audio industry. I think therein lies the "problem." Nobody will question whether a Tiffany ring is worth $20K with the necessary certificates, but you'll surely see many who will tell you a $20K amplifier sounds like crap. As Swapmwalker noted, objectivity is not something we can easily employ in this hobby. |
you'll surely see many who will tell you a $20K amplifier sounds like crap. Or that it sounds no different than a $2K amp, or, or that amp A sounds different than amp B, or that $20K amp C sounds like crap when used w pre-amp D or, dare I say it, power cord E! Of course, another way in which high end audio differs is that the amp by itself cannot make any sound; in some ways it would be like trying to evaluate a car solely on the basis of how many horsepower the engine can make, without considering the suspension, chassis, tires, gearing, etc. I also think that people become so passionate just because there ultimately are no objective criteria (sorry, Raul, not in my world!) and so arguments/discussions/disagreements have no verifiable "correct" resolution. Back to the Anna- I could not agree more w Actusreus (you know, that's even harder to spell than Swap...Smwap...Swapmwalker...); it's totally incomprehensible that a well-established industry leader (to say nothing of a garage shop) would send a flagship product to the English-speaking world's most widely read reviewer in their specialty w/o making 100% certain that the sample was PERFECT!!!!! It's not like Consumer Reports where they buy one off the shelf. It's not like there is an assembly line churning out an Anna every minute, 24/7. Ortofon knew it was a review sample and who was doing the review. At that price, the customer has the right to know/demand every single cart is individually tested and sold w a spec sheet to verify it meets the design intent and meets or exceeds the published specifications. If that were my company, the head of QC, head of marketing, and the QC inspector of those units would all be looking for new jobs. |
05-07-13: Swampwalker
If that were my company, the head of QC, head of marketing, and the QC inspector of those units would all be looking for new jobs.
It happens more often than you would believe in all industries (i mean faulty products or mistakes) and rarely is someone's head taken! |
Pops- I am sure you are correct; maybe that's why I am not a CEO of a major corporation. I also believe that mistakes can happen and you generally can't take a person's measure by one event, but c'mon???? It's your flagship product, hand assembled in very limited quantities for a very select, niche market, that will ALL (and I pretty mean pretty much ALL) be reading the review. How can you NOT test that individual unit to make sure it works perfectly???? It's not a blind audition. You get to pick the unit that goes out. And it is defective. TWICE!!!!! I would think that they would have resigned w/o having to be fired. In the good old days, they would have been given the opportunity to take the honorable way out...a 38 caliber letter of resignation ;-) |
Swampwalker,
I'm hand-writing "Swampwalker" 100 times as my homework as we speak.
"Swampwalker, Swampwalker, Swampwalker,..." 97 more to go...:) |
This and the D'Agostino amp meltdown incident remain undisputed classics of the "Wheels Came Off But Otherwise It's Great" review niche. Rarely does extreme high end gear provide so much entertainment without having to listen to it. |
Wolf-Garcia, never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Dan D took the time to explain what happened to his amp, you were on the the meltdown thread, so you certainly saw his response. See below for your reference. Either you have nothing better to do or just a plain dick. I am sorry that you interpret this as a melt down. The Momentum amplifiers normal operating temperature is 42-44c(107-111f)the temperature rise to 48c (118f) is inconsequential. The amplifier in question failed from a non related component failure in the power on circuit.The Momentum amplifier is designed to shut down at 70c (158f). The unit under test was not close to that temperature.Many amplifiers at higher temperatures than that.If John had continued his test the second amplifier would have passed witout any problems. The Momentum amplifier has more than enough thermal head room for any load or speaker. I was unable to give comment until the unit was returned to me from testing. Thank you for your concern.
Dan D'Agostino |
Any manufacturer needs to have a very expensive nit (cartridge, Arm, Amp ...) for some simple reasons
1. He needs it when he wants to be taken serious
2. He needs it for his dealers (profit)
and in a way for his own to make some money with a few sold items instead of selling 50 of the cheap ones.
Anyone who saves the money for such an item WANTS it to be better than his pervious one. Maybe it is better, maybe it is worth the price difference, maybe.... maybe...in the end it is the decision of the buyer.
A review can be a review, it can be also a Product Placement, it can be a opinion from a reviewer who likes or dislikes something. It doesn't matter. Important is the product placement.
What is the definition of "good" or "great"?
Mainly it is also a personal impression, the majority does not really compare, (what they do it, do I like it better than the one before), only a minority compares a unit with a cheaper, but "good" one.
This is the main reason why a top cartridge for a low price (whatever this will be) will never get the respect it deserves, because everyone (or 95%) thinks, "hey, this is a top one for 2k but there is the next for 4.5K, and that's the game.
There are also a group of Audiophiles out there who WANT to spend minimum 8k for a cartridge/cable/Arm...and a Dealer wants to serve.
Maybe Ortofon had a problem with Quality control who knows. But what would happen when the Cartridge was ok, but not for the reviewer for whatever reasons. Some of them have a very big Ego. They have a very strong position and no Manufacturer will write that a reviewer is simply too handicapped to do it right...
Each his own but all of you read the reviews, all of you have an opinion and I think all of you had the experience that a Class A or B rating in whatever mag is simply wrong in Past or Presence.
No matter which Product, good or bad, cheap or expensive, you will find for everything someone who loves it and recommends it. Based on various reasons (Profit, saving, limited funds, endless funds, fun, color, Style, reputation and so on), sound quality or Performance is not always the priority. It is in discussions among us but there is always the golden rule of audio: Ask 4 Audiophiles and you get 5 opinions.
At the end of day it is a personal choice. |
"Swampwalker, Swampwalker, Swampwalker,..." 97 more to go...:) Actusreus; Actusreus; Actusreus...I think I've got it... Acutusrex; Atcususreus; Acuteresus; !@#$%&. ;-) never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Words to live by!!! And, what the heck does The amplifier in question failed from a non related component failure in the power on circuit. mean? What the heck is a non-related component??? I say again, how do you send an audio component that costs as much as a car out to a reviewer without at least running it in to make sure that the bloody thing works!! I agree w Wolf. It's entertaining. A little bit on the "watching a train wreck" side, but since no one is physically injured; what the hay. Nothing against Mr. D'Agostino, whose cred is impeccable, but the fact that other amps run hotter, while true, is totally irrelevant to the fact that the unit under review did not operate within its design envelope. For this kind of luxury product, that's inexcusable. IMO. YMMV. |
Dear Downunder, I saw a mention of the problem with the Momentum amp in some other thread. No details were provided. But in your quote from D'Agostino, he says, "The amplifier in question failed from a non related component failure in the power on circuit". So, I gather he is saying that the amp did not fail (or shut down) because of overheating but for a different reason. I don't see how that gets the amplifier off the hook, as it were. It apparently did fail by some mechanism during a review process. I personally would not let that deter me from purchasing the product, if I were in the market, but it does possibly raise a concern about reliability, does it not? Perhaps I am misunderstanding D'Agostino's statement. Was the failure external to the amplifier itself? |
I agree with Syntax.
Regarding the Anna, it is very interesting that Ortofon did not address this in the Manufacturer's Comments in the same Stereophile issue. I wonder why.
I do wish more members owned it so we could hear from them about the quality and sonics. The $7-10K cartridge market is getting crowded so I think it would be interesting if we could read direct comparisons between say the Atlas, the Anna, the Dynavector, Koetsu, AirTight, MSL. |
Downunder...I'm sorry if my enjoying expensive gear meltdowns apparently has upset you. Had I known there were those out there who's emotional investment in Beloved Audio Brands has rendered them so highly sensitive to my expressed enjoyment of review issues with elite gear, I might have been more gentle with my posts (although most likely not). D'Agostino and Ortophon should be proud to know they have little friends out there who will rise to defend brands that otherwise would suffer the cruel injustice of mirthful forum posting. |
Since this thread is about, among other things, Ortofon QC, I thought I'd let everyone know that my rebuilt A90 arrived this morning. It looks absolutely brand-new--with a new serial number on the box and stamped into the motor/generator assembly. I examined it closely with a digital microscope before mounting it on a Tri-planar. They absolutely nailed it. Everything aligns perfectly; the workmanship is immaculate. And the sound? Already, it seems better than the original, if that's possible. I'm extremely pleased. Hats off to Ortofon! |
Lewm, if you search D'Agostino in the amps section of audio you will see the thread and response from Dan. I can't add anymore context, however it was clear from Dan's response it had nothing to do with overheating or any other conspiracy theory. It was a component in the power on circuit.
Atkinson also responded in audio asylum critics where he did not run the 2nd sample for the normal time due to deadlines.
Anyway,never heard of any owner with reliability issues of the Momentum amps, including myself - and I run them hard.
Garcia, I really don't give a toss what you think, however at least be factual with your statements. |
Downunder, I did not have the foggiest notion that you owned a Momentum amplifier. I in no way meant to insult the product. I know zero about them, but the chassis is indeed a thing of beauty. If you like it, that is all that counts. When I read the paragraph you quoted, it seemed that D'Agostino was saying, in effect, it was not "this thing" that went wrong, it was "that thing". A distinction without a difference. I actually have some empathy for a low volume manufacturer of an exotic high end piece, when such issues arise during review. For all we know, the problem could well have been related to abuse by the end user. HP was well known to blow things up due to his utter lack of technical knowledge and then blame the equipment.
Syntax, Great post. |
Downunder...You clearly DO care what I think, and that's sweet. If you spend $42,000 on amps you have every right to be testy when a forum has fun with 'em. Stand by your Dan! (this comment has been deemed 100% factual) |
Garcia, fantastic,more dribble. I would certainly have been shafted if I had paid your price for my amp.
Enjoy you fun mass debating :-) |
I don't think folks are up in arms just because an 8k cartridge exists. They (I include myself so should say "we") are upset that something so expensive was submitted 3 times before the company got it right.....to a reviewer no less! And to top it off, the reviewer then goes and raves it. This is the irresponsibility (on the company's part, not Fremer) in this hobby that so many of us are upset about.
I don't see threads on expensive Dynavectors, Air Tights, or Lyras where folks are this upset.
We all know what it means when the company can't even get a sample to a reviewer correct on the first 2 tries: it means that lots of bad ones went to consumers. I think folks should be riled up at that thought! |
So would you feel better, or at least less upset, if the manufacturer had tested and hand selected the cartridge in a manner not available to normal purchasers?
Whether the cartridge cost $10k or $100 it should be functional and meet its specs right out of the box. The unfortunate reality is that this minimal condition is not always met. Mercedes cars do get recalled, your $10 million custom home can have HVAC issues and Boeing spent $32 billion developing and testing the 787 Dreamliner and still had electric problems when the jet was put in service. Since things can go wrong the real issue then becomes how do companies deal with in service design problems. According to the MF review Ortofon replaced the cartridge. The fact that they had to provide a replacement twice is downright embarrassing, but as a consumer what more can you ask the company to do? There are details missing in the review, but I would want Ortofon to provide a prompt replacement, at no cost and with little or no questions. If that's the case, then Ortofon acted in a classy manner.
If I was an owner of an Anna and I read the review I would be disturbed. I'd contact my dealer and Ortofon and get a detailed explanation of what the problem is and whether my cartridge was effected. I probably send it back Ortofon to have them inspect my cartridge, at their cost.
If I didn't own an Anna and I read the review, I'd think what does any of that have to do with me? |
Dear Onhwy61: I think that could exist a potential problem with all the Anna cartridge samples ( especially the early ones. ):
for the cartridge customers that buy every new pricey cartridge every " new kid on the block ) could be not a problem because with the next new cartridge they bought the Anna goes to the closets or to other second hand buyer but the ones that normally put over 3-4K hours in a cartridge could be that the problem showed on the MF review can repeat over the time over several hours of playback. No one knows if this could or not happen and if I were an Anna owner then as you say I will ask to Ortofon for an inspection or and extended warranty time in case that rpoblem comes again.
I love Ortofon cartridges and own or owned/heard almost all top different cartridge series to A90. In the past as I posted at begin of this thread Ortofon marketed an overall new cartridge design that was the great MC 2000 that came with problems in suspension and the stylus glue on the cantilever: suddenly the stylus unglued with out reason. This happened sometimes at the first playback hours and sometimes after several playback hours and that's why I said that could exist a potential trouble down there for the Anna owners.
Pity that this happened with a so old and well regarded everywhere cartridge builders as Ortofon. Like all of you posted all is Ortofon own culprit and IMHO there is no excuse for what happened.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
So would you feel better, or at least less upset, if the manufacturer had tested and hand selected the cartridge in a manner not available to normal purchasers? First of all, there are plenty of audio manufacturers who test/burn-in EVERY product they ship. Carts, electronics, speakers. For a flagship product that is basically handmade, the consumer has every right to expect that. If I were in the market for an $8 cart or a $40,000 amp I'd demand it. At those stratospheric MSRP price points (assuming street price is also at the very top end), I'd want the reviewer's sample and mine to be virtually identical. It's not like people are lined up out the door waiting to snatch these things off the shelf! Or maybe that's what the line of Saudi princes I saw when I was in NY for the show last month was all about? |
Anyone know why sometimes you can edit a post and sometimes not???? Ain't progress grand??
$8K cart is of course what I meant. |
Raul, I was in the home of another audiophile last week, to audition his huge horn system; with mammoth horn woofers, the multi-way speaker takes up half his listening room. His cartridge was a special Audio Note Io that has field coil magnets (i.e., the magnet is an electro-magnet that must be separately energized). $10K, if you can find one, since they are discontinued. Anyway, during the course of listening to 3-4 LPs, the sound suddenly went very sour, and upon close inspection the owner found that the stylus had come off the cantilever of his Io. Either the glue failed (if the stylus was glued) or the press fit failed due to fatigue. He never lost his cool, however, because, he said, he has another such Io, NOS. I would have been tearing my few remaining hairs out of my head. It takes grande cojones to be a high-end consumer. |
Onhwy61,
Do you think that Ortofon will replace every Anna that is returned because the owner is not sure what's wrong but doesn't think the cartridge is working properly?
I don't. |
I'm not going to speculate what Ortofon will do, but this is what I would do if I were a cartridge manufacturer in a similar situation. I would contact each registered purchaser of the cartridge and offer an explanation of what the problems with MF's review samples were. I would further offer any owner a factory review and re-certification of their cartridge at no cost. If during that review process a cartridge is determined to be out of spec or defective I would offer a free repair or replacement. For cartridges that I determined to be past their useful life due to normal wear and tear I would offer a reduced price replacement. Cartridges that I deem to have been mishandled or abused would be handled on a case by case basis. |
I nominate Onhwy61 for Minister of All High-End Manufacturing. |
Dear Lewm: Yes that can happen like with Ortofon or AN and with other top cartridges. It happened to me more than once.
I agree: ++++ " It takes grande cojones to be a high-end consumer " +++++
The situation with the Anna is nothing new on the high-end audio items market. How many of us laready experienced several troubles with new products as: TT/tonearms, electronics or speakers?, I think that every one of us already experienced some way or other.
I'm not saying to justify that bad QC but we know that that bad QC in some items is the " bread " of every day and IMHO is a SHAME it still happen today. Why pay we so high prices for that kind of bad QC items?
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Dear M. Lavigne: I would like that you come back again not to tell us what already posted but to tell us if you have any tiny concern/worry on what we are discussing here. I hope you can share your personal opinion on the whole subject.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
his is what I would do if I were a cartridge manufacturer in a similar situation. I would contact each registered purchaser of the cartridge and offer an explanation of what the problems with MF's review samples were. I would further offer any owner a factory review and re-certification of their cartridge at no cost. If during that review process a cartridge is determined to be out of spec or defective I would offer a free repair or replacement. For cartridges that I determined to be past their useful life due to normal wear and tear I would offer a reduced price replacement. Cartridges that I deem to have been mishandled or abused would be handled on a case by case basis. Totally agree. But wouldn't it be much less expensive AND much less damaging to your brand to just mount and test each cart before it goes out? |
