Klaus Bunge of Odyssey Audio makes a speaker, the Liquids. They are incredible, I have the Salk Song3 beat, Focal 948 Aria, Egglestonworks Emma evolution and the Liquids far better than all above. He’s making a new design now, and it’s in you price range. Good Luck..
Forever speakers around $5000
Hi Audiogon! Your help has been invaluable in the past so I’m back yet again. I think I’m close to purchasing my forever speakers and am looking for recommendations of what to consider. Here are some qualities I’m looking for, in order of importance:
I currently own a pair of LSA 2.1 Signature floorstanders, which have certain qualities I like (soundstage/imaging due to rear firing tweeter, size/weight, U-shaped). But things I feel are missing (bass feels a bit loose, build quality could be better, feels very low tech with paper woofers and unbraced MDF cabinet). I listen to a wide range of music, mostly a lot of intimate jazz combos, some experimental electronic and IDM, funk, some rock, black metal, and a bit of classical.
Here are some speakers I have heard and liked:
- Amazing soundstage. I really enjoy a speaker that can throw a BIG soundstage.
- Fun, slightly U-shaped frequency response.
- Tight, punchy, musical bass.
- Airy and clear high end, think Magnepan.
- Good R&D and technology. If I’m paying this much for a speaker, it better not just be a damn box with some bargain paper cone drivers in it.
- Nice looking. This is a speaker, first and foremost, but it is also a piece of furniture. It really does have to look nice (I hate to say it, but this probably disqualifies offerings from GoldenEar).
- Semi-compact. I like a speaker that has a good physical presence in the room (not too small) but not something massive like a Magnepan (been there already) or Wilson. I like units no more than 45" x 10" x 16" or so. Also cant weight a million pounds as we are still in a rental and will have to move these.
I currently own a pair of LSA 2.1 Signature floorstanders, which have certain qualities I like (soundstage/imaging due to rear firing tweeter, size/weight, U-shaped). But things I feel are missing (bass feels a bit loose, build quality could be better, feels very low tech with paper woofers and unbraced MDF cabinet). I listen to a wide range of music, mostly a lot of intimate jazz combos, some experimental electronic and IDM, funk, some rock, black metal, and a bit of classical.
Here are some speakers I have heard and liked:
- Magnepan MMG - amazing detail, imaging, mids and highs
- LSA 2.1 - for all their shortcomings, they check a lot of boxes
- Dynaudio Focus 20 XD - awesome balance and great bass for a standmount
- B&W CM10 - I really like this speaker, though I’ve seen some measurements that have turned me off
- KEF LS50 - honestly seemed very shrill and shouty to me
- Martin Logan ESL - weirdly didnt get a great impression of these
- GoldenEar Triton 3 - not only ugly, but I found these a bit boring to listen to
107 responses Add your response
As you may have noticed opinions are like fingers, everyone has them, unless you play with fire crackers. The only way to know what you really love is to listen to them. There does seem to be a bit of consensus with the ProAc’s I owned the D30R and the combination of Carbon Fibre woofer and Ribbon Tweeter is wonderful. ProAc’s have an addictive musical quality more music less hifi they will only get better as your system gets better. You won't need a ton of power but you will need Good everything else to get the most out of them. They are aren't really big but they do need room to breathe. They can throw a wall to wall soundstage and floor to ceiling too! And although they look simple the cabinets are wonderfully made and the wood used is gorgeous! Happy New Year! |
Having an amazing experience w/a pair of ATC passive monitors in my desktop system (SCM12 Pro)--an unusual combination of very musical & extremely revealing/accurate. If it were me, I'd be interested in either of the following for 2-channel/living room: SCM19 stand-mount (2-way): the larger volume older brother of my SCM12 Pro. You really wouldn't need a sub...the bass is large & impactful http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/entry-series/scm19/ SCM40 floorstander (3-way): a bit over-budget, but probably would be killer sonically https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers/atc-scm40-v2-tower-speakers https://www.hifiwigwam.com/atc-scm40-speaker-review/ |
+3 on Vandersteen Treo CT. Used it is a tremendous bargain and with good equipment sounds much more expensive than it is. I think it is the least expensive speaker currently that I could call "forever." Keep in mind that first and foremost I listen for transparency and midrange purity. Tektons are not my cup of tea as they are for others. |
The Song3 Encore's from SALK Audio would be my choice. They are $6,500 and sounded better than $50,000 speakers I heard at the RMAF. They sell direct only to bypass distributors. As a result they are able to buy expensive drivers and manufacture really excellent speaker cabinets. Call Jim Salk and let him know Larry Edwards sent you. I know the distributors in the group are not going to happy with me to recommend these speakers. However, when you hear them, you will be thankful I pointed you in this direction. |
Ishkabibil Is RIGHT-ON!~ Never throw out a T-bone steak that never had Salt & Pepper to bring out it's favor. Adcom Amps play well on some speakers. Find a Hi Fi dealer in your area. See if you can take home a floor DEMO. Start with a Tube 30+watts should drive your speakers. Not a tube guy? That's OK But it will give you loads of Musicality you ear may tell your brain what its been wanting or is missing... Solid state only? Pass Labs>>>> FIRST WATT dose both in Spades. Tubes 444 |
+1 for ATC SCM40, or the more costly active SCM 40a (if you want to upgrade your amp with amplifiers designed for the speaker drivers). These are modestly sized floor standers. If you listen to jazz and classical, their accuracy across the frequency spectrum is outstanding. Tight bass, crisp but not overly bright highs, nice soundstage. The company makes studio monitors used in the recording industry. They come with a 6-yr, warranty. Check them out at http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/entry-series/scm40/ Here's a somewhat dated review for what it's worth. https://www.stereophile.com/content/fifth-element-59-page-2 I believe one or more of the drivers has been upgraded in the latest version of the SCM 40. If you want a smaller stand mounted speaker, you can consider the SCM 19 and use the $1,500 in savings compared to the SCM 40 towards a new amp, cables, power conditioning, a sub, room treatments, etc. Lots of other good alternatives have been mentioned. I've heard several Dynaudio and Aerial Acoustics products I liked (I own Aerial Acoustics Model 8b's), but must say I found some of the upper level B&W speakers a bit too bright in the highs and fatiguing. As always, listen for yourself. |
"I found some of the upper level B&W speakers a bit too bright in the highs and fatiguing." They said the same thing about Thiel speakers. I've owned both and what is true: If you use crappy electronics with these speakers, they will sound crappy. They are, in and of themselves, not bright sounding. |
If it helps, I’ve persisted with cm10’s for over a year. Bass is nearly non-existent until turning up the volume on the MC452. Top-end and mids are amazing however bass is horrid: missing frequencies, befuddled. To save my investment, I treated my room extensively with bass traps which helped minimally. Installing two ASW CM10 S2 subs produced more bass but still exact same problems. Solution was to replace all BMW speakers with a two year old pair of Faber Sonos Amati Futuras. Best sound I’ve ever heard. Forever speakers! Good luck! |
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Forever speakers around $xxx" There is no such animal. Trust me. Been into hifi for over 50 years. Seriously, if you find the ultimate motors for you that are "forever speakers", I don't think your really listening. I really liked ever speaker brand we sold at my store, back n the day... Vandersteen, B&W, Mordaunt Short, Klipsch, Spendor, Eminent Technology (LFT3), and I knoe I am leaving some out, along with those I owned such as Apogee, Acoustat, Magneplanar, etc... Now at 60, I'm really digging on classic JBL & Altec Lansing, Electro Voice, etc. Bottom line is there is no one speaker design that does everything perfectly. Period stop. There is a lot to be said about many different designs amd speaker brands and models. Whatever floats yer boat is a OK, but something else may come along in your repertoire and thats ok too. |
Someone mentioned it already but a 1.7 or 3.7 Maggies with a small distributed sub array of four subs gets you the best or both worlds. All the illustrious mids and highs with perfectly integrated base. If you go active with a mini DSP you can do room correction with a good microphone and Room EQ Wizard and plug them measurements into Multi Sub Optimizer which will create all the crossovers for your mini DSP. Sonic bliss and perfect integration with the mains and room. |
No speaker is better than Magneplanars IF you have good electronics and source material. Here is the acid test: LISTEN to them for as long as you want at any volume or with any genre of music you like. NO listening fatigue, period. THAT is one of the important tests for "forever" speakers. Try that with ANY OTHER box speaker, electrostatics, etc. Unfortunately, you will want to stop listening to any other brand eventually. Never true with Maggies unless your source material is unlistenable. NO speaker fixes that! Also, they reproduce what you send them. If you can live with that, your quest is over. Cheers! |
I personally have loved my Rega RS5, which have exactly the qualities you're looking for, but the RS7 would improve the bass. The soundstage is huge, they need no toe in -- I much prefer them straight ahead. The mid/highs are nothing short of extraordinary. I've compared them to many speakers in the 3-5K range and am always blown away by the Regas. But the RS5 probably wouldn't have the "forever" bass. |
NO listening fatigue, period. THAT is one of the important tests for "forever" speakers. As an owner of Maggies I must say this is a very misleading post. It’s true that Maggies require good gear to get the best from them but they have their limitations and are far from perfect. Many speakers previously mentioned are more resolving than any of the <$5K Maggies, regardless of sources and amps. A good example is the Spendor A4 and likely even the OP’s LSAs. The Magnepans certainly have their strengths but ultra high levels of detail and pinpoint imaging are a couple areas where they fall short compared to many in the $5K segment. And of the three Maggie models I’ve experienced (1.7i, 3.7i and .7), for whatever odd reason, only the .7s offer a balanced presentation with real bass slam. The 3.7i do indeed produce fatiguing highs, while the 1.7is must be cranked over 80db to get any real bass dynamics, and lack resolution. Where all Maggies seem to excel is disappearing as sources of sound and transient speed. For those reasons I love my .7s but like any speaker, they’re not an end-all, be-all. Some of my <$5K box speakers can throw a much larger soundstage and showcase greater detail. |
I never paid attention to meridian speakers or any of their gear because the prices are stupid expensive... New, used the stuff is affordable and there’s something to be said for dsp speakers. Meridian is Brit and has the traditional brit sound and a sound stage that is bigger than the room. There’s a bunch of companies offering active speakers with dsp xovers that I would give a listen to, Dynaudio would probably be the one for you and since you won’t need an amp you can expand your budget a bit and get a full range Floorstander. Shop used |
There is a pair of Legacy Signature SE for sale on US Audiomart that are right at your price range and should fill all of your requirements. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649513598-legacy-signature-se/ |
Gallo 3.5 if you can find one, there's a reason there aren't many on the used market. Purposeful design to avoid baffle, parallel walls, minimal enclosure, xover that plague most speakers. Have owned Apogee and Maggie 3.6 and also currently have the 1.7's so I know the sound you are seeking and the Gallo's really shine, outstanding sound for such a small footprint. |
Regarding differences between Spendor A series and D series, the D has superior tweeter (in house design LPZ, it’s fantastic), superior rear port (5th gen Formula 1 inspired, whatever that means but Spendor considers it a major upgrade over A series, and superior internal damping construction. I own D7 and find them superb |
Just purchased my 3rd pair of Revel Ultima Gem2 speakers: yes for different rooms. They are frequently sold as the surround-sound speakers for their big floor-stander sisters, but they are amazingly small and beautiful for a 3-way. The beryllium tweeter, 4" titanium midrange and sealed 8" titanium woofer precisely cover the frequency range down to a 70Hz roll-off, perfect for matching with a fast, sealed subwoofer. The quality of the sound is similar to an electrostatic, but can be positioned anywhere with multiple electronic adjustments for different heights and nearness to the wall. Reportedly used as studio masters; see the Absolute Sound 2008 review. These still retail for $5,000 each, but are available used on this site and others for half that. There are stands available, and I have one pair wall mounted, one pair on Revel stands, and one pair on stands I made. |
Phew, too many comments to keep track of! There are a ton of awesome suggestions and waaay more speakers that I could demo, but I'll try to tackle some of these. I hear a lot of people suggesting the Tekton Moab, which looks very nice but are enormous and much too big for my room. I hear quite a bit about the Vandersteen Treo and (I know this is nitpicky) but its not super great looking. For what its worth, I did get to hear a pair of Dynaudio Confidence 20 the other day and they were quite possibly one of my favorite speakers I have ever heard. Though they are way out of my price range, I wonder if the older generation C1 Platinums would be close? Though they had amazing bass for standmounts, I worry that I might be dissatisfied with the lack of LF someday. Anyways, thanks for all the ideas!! |
I thought I had my “forever speakers” when I purchased Tekton Double Impacts. Incredible speakers! But, now I’ve sold them and I await the arrival of my Tekton Moab loudspeakers. These will be my forever speakers, surely, because I actually promised this to my wife. And I don’t lie. Seriously. These may not fit your requirements due to size or whatever, but to those reading this thread the Tekton line of speakers is really something special. |
while you’re likely chasing the endless rainbow like we all are...These brands tend to be final destinations for many listeners, more often than the typical stiff-cabinet, narrow-baffle floorstander. They're not the last word in any one performance metric but their combinations of talents are hard to beat. I think they're best appreciated by listeners who can appreciate realistic tone/timbre. Many assume the flexible cabinets are designed to add an artificial warmth but it's really intended to lower the resonant frequencies where they're far less audible. In contrast, many stiff-cabinet floorstanders have resonances >500Hz which makes them too easy for the ears to locate. Thus, they don't "disappear." My Spendors and Stirlings are about as stealthy and transparent in this regard as my Maggie .7s. |
Magnepans are great speakers however I could never get them past my wife. I also don't like how they look but that is personal. Unfortunately asthetics plays a huge role and it is part of the equation when looking for speakers. I think the other factor for many buyers is can they resell the speakers for a decent amount of money if I don't like them. Most speakers and electronics usually resell at approximately 50% of their retail value so buying used should also be considered. The last thing is that large speakers cost a lot to ship especially from cost to cost. My last speakers, Salk HT3, cost over $600 to ship to their new owner and I incurred some of the cost. My last speakers were purchased with free shipping. Good luck. |
"Forever speakers" Women aren’t so stupid. They know that’s what all audio addicts say. :) I think you won't last five years. Tekton strikes me as the kind of company that will keep coming out with different orientations, you know, to keep things (like sales) fresh. What then of the Great Oath of swearing off all upgrades to speakers? I say you retract it in less than five years. And, here's the thing; your wife probably already knows this. :) |
Another vote for Vandy 5A's, which you can get for around $6k used. They frankly don't meet your requirement of being easy to move, but they are still worth it. For one thing, because they have built-in powered subs, they're easier to drive and you won't need a standalone sub. For another, they include a multi-band bass equalization system that lets you fine-tune them to your room. They are definitely a speaker of "forever" quality, made more affordable because of Vandersteen's new carbon technology offerings, which are admittedly amazing. (Of course, the Kento Carbon that replaced the 5A in the lineup is $38k!) But, trust me, unless you play them side-by-side, I doubt that listening to the 5A's would leave you feeling like you're missing anything. |
I beg to differ on Maggie's 3.7i not having pinpoint imaging and detail as mine are extremely detailed and image extremely well. Each instrument is crystal clear with exact placement in the mix. If you don't hear this I suggest you check your speaker placement of source material and other associated equipment. |
This is just a great thread! So many interesting choices; too bad it is impossible to audition them in person at any one location. The major factors are sound quality and cost obviously. But when buying floor standers the other huge factor is the styling of the cabinets. Some speakers just look wrong depending on the space. My personal preference is quality looking wood veneer. I just dislike black hi gloss speakers. Some folks love them. I love the sound of Wilson speakers but could never live with them in our living room. I have two separate systems. The second system features Rega RS7s, a tall skinny speaker in lovely light wood with side woofers. Our space features wood floors and tall wood ceilings. The RS7s look great in this cabin style space. But I am thinking about upgrading them as I have seriously just upgraded my source with a Pass XP-20 preamp and a Bryston 4BSST2 power amp with a Linn DSM streamer/DAC... |
If there’s one thing I learned from my own threads here about “forever” speakers it’s to first decide what TYPE of speaker to choose. Planar?OB? Stand mount? Concentric? Floorstanding? Etc etc etc. Then start with pro reviews and forum reviews on that type of speaker and get a consensus of what brands/models in your now determined type of speaker are most lauded. Then work that against your budget. For whatever it’s worth... |
I beg to differ on Maggie's 3.7i not having pinpoint imaging and detail as mine are extremely detailed and image extremely well. Each instrument is crystal clear with exact placement in the mix. If you don't hear this I suggest you check your speaker placement of source material and other associated equipment.Regarding the 3.7is, yes, they're plenty detailed thanks to the pure ribbon tweeter but the ones I heard were overbearing and bright in the top end, not balanced like the 1.7s and .7s. The latter two certainly do lack some last bits of air and detail, and when a multitude of box speakers surpass them in those areas, in multiple rooms, among multiple combinations of ancillaries, logic would dictate it's not the upstream gear. None of the Maggies I've heard do pinpoint imaging like a good coaxial dynamic driver. However, I really enjoy them for their microdynamics where most pale in comparison. Anyway, back on topic. OP, if your space allows, you should give Spatial Audio speakers a try. Clayton is a pleasure to deal with and his speakers really do compete with models 2X their price. |
