Footers under new speakers

@yyzsantabarbara 

Since the speaker is coupled to the podium I don’t see how it can’t move in sync with the podium. It is possible I guess that the top of the speaker might move less than the bottom of the speaker which is closest to the podiums. What matters most is that you heard an improvement. Happy listening !

@pindac , Hi thank you again for your detailed input. I’m planning on trying the bags. I’m curious about your detailed description of the combination of materials to build a platform. By chance is there a link to a video or pictures that I might get an illustration Vs me trying to visualize from your description? At my age the old processor seems to be a bit slow. Respectfully, Mike B. 

@ronboco I was expecting the speaker to be vibrating but it did not seem to be doing that.

@sounds_real_audio , No particular problem, just overall better sound. I’ve spent my time locked into heavy stuff spiked to the floor. Got back into Mid-Fi about 10 years ago. Repurchased some of the gear from my youth. Moved on to lower power tubes , and now higher power tubes. I’m unfortunately budget restricted and try to enjoy the music in a cost restricted way. I’ve always liked tubes since my first Dynaco in the 70’s. Built kits and speakers as a kid. This particular thread is my desire to understand vibrations and decoupling. Once again I’m doing a system on a budget and will play with speaker footers. I will probably consider vibration issues for my pre and amp’s especially since I’ll have 22 tubes in play with the 3 pieces. Also got back into vinyl with a Modded Thorens TT. Currently streaming Tidal and Qbuzz. Again all modest gear with Innuos, Schitt, Rogue, Tekton, Morrow , Gray. I’ve tried to use American Boutique stuff and just have fun. The speakers in question will meet up with some 180 wpc mono blocs in about a month. Or as soon as my wife leaves on vacation. 😆 The chaps on this thread have been ever so kind in providing their insight, I’m so grateful to all. Cheers , Mike. 

@yyzsantabarbara 

If the speakers are directly on the podiums they should have been vibrating the same as the podiums. 

As cptrips stated Tekton sells them for $20 per footing, Also you can check Temu or Aliexpress for inexpensive spikes or footers.

Townshend Audio Seismic Isolation Podium for Speakers made a nice improvement to my Yanaha NS5000 speakers. I wanted to see how this worked so I played some really heavy pounding music loudly. I put a finger on the Podium's and noticed they were vibrating a lot. I then touched the speaker and noticed it was not moving at all. I figured that was the reason the sound was better.

Is there a problem with the sound that you are trying to correct?

My Inquiry has been to see if my Five Tier Plinth Could once more be suggested as it need not be expensive and has proved to be very attractive as a Base for a Speaker, with almost parity effect as a Suspension Footer.

The Base Tier Isolator could be Footers made from a 3mm (1/8") Wall Thickness Metal Perforated Pipe / Tube of approx' 50mm Diameter and 50mm High, this would allow air to flow freely at the interface with the floor and Support the Sub Sub Plinth off the floor.

The next Isolators and Sub Plinth used, will then be the ones with the Purpose to assist with Leveling the Speakers and add further improved measures for Isolation of the Speaker   

@buellrider97 I emailed Stack Audio. They tell me that they have only had clients pay tariffs on orders over $800.  He suggested ordering sets separately to keep the order amount down. 

@knockknock12 , Hi, thanks for your input. Did you or anyone else here do a direct comparison between the Auva’s ? Those 100’s at 4” diameter are big, but compared to the Townsends are barely noticeable. Also it seems I’d be at around $1500 for the Auva Vs $1700 for the Townsend #3’s. I’m waiting clarification on any duties or tariffs. God I hope no one goes off on a tariff rant. Cheers , Mike B. 

@pindac Hi , the moisture is not an issue unless I create a particular environment. I’ve accidentally caused it a couple of times. Once by putting a 6’ rubber mat under my peloton, the other by putting my gun safe directly on the slab with only cardboard while doing a remodel. Within 2 weeks the cardboard was saturated and molding, and that  was on bare concrete. The Peleton in the next room is on LVP flooring and I happened to move it after 2 months and could smell the musty Oder and feel the moisture. I had that room tested for moisture and it passed but the floors have to breathe. I have a huge wall of slumpblocks that form a fireplace and hearth. The moisture issues are severe enough to cause  efflorescence and pieces of the brick have fallen away. So the common practice of throwing down a big block of hard material to crush the carpet will cause this to happen. Also any floor mats or rugs can’t have a rubber backing. 

@hilde45 

Yes I do believe I would realize a small if any improvement but emailing Townsend is an excellent idea and I will contact them to see what they say. 

buellrider97 OP 

Hi Mike. All Stack Audio footers can handle this weight, but they work better the bigger they are=more damping material inside. I just changed from Stacks AUVA 50´s to AUVA 100´s. A HUGE improvement. 😀 Best K

buellrider97 OP Hi Mike, all Stack Footers can handle this weight, it just depends on the cometics and the sound. I have just changed my AUVA 50s to the AUVA 100´s, a huge improvement. Best K

@buellrider97 An inquiry to attempt to get the full picture about the requirement for setting up the Speakers:

Are the setting up of the Speakers only with a concern for the risk of entrapping moisture under them or any other support used to mount them on?

Does the above concerns for moisture have to be resolved in conjunction with using a mounting device that must be used for the Speakers that offers a Suspension Function, with the Townsend looking the better option as your assessment? 

@goose , I have had other speakers on the same floor prior to this. JBL 4312A’s on 60 lb 3 post Sound Anchors spiked. Klipsch Heresy’s on the same stands. Zu’s spiked to carpet and on thick footers. I’m just seeking BETTER  based on the large amount of chatter in favor of decoupling. FWIT I am a month out from setting up a large system on a different wall. Just playing with these speakers ahead of that. So I started this thread for advice. I’m old school always using spikes for larger speakers. So a few days ago I got bored and unboxed the inexpensive Double Impacts. I set them up in place of my Zu / Tube rig using a cheap modded Akitika ops amp. Out of the box they smoked the ZU’s. They are sitting on the carpet mentioned without spikes or footers. Today I installed the factory spikes and placed them back where they were. I noticed cabinet resonance while moving them on spikes by myself. I had to lean on and rock and push down just to get to the cement. After they settled I checked for level and made sure all 4 feet were firmly touching the cement. The sound quality is worse losing bass and mid range clarity. They lost some of the soundstage and now sound like 2 boxes with space between. I was surprised to see the loss in SQ, but it supports what others are finding with decoupling. Tomorrow I’ll add about 10lbs to the top of each cabinet and recheck the level and reconfirm all feet are firmly planted. After that I’ll try a tube amp , then remove the spikes and reevaluate. The carpet and large cloth sectional have allowed me to avoid room treatments, but that carpet is a PITA otherwise. Regards, Mike B. 

@buellrider97  is there a specific problem you are trying to solve?  The podiums have an adjustment on each of the corners that can balance uneaven loads either front to back or side to side.  The size 3 would work and it's about the same profile of my Vienna Acoustics Liszt speakers.  I would try spiking them directly to the concrete floor to see how they sound first and you may not have any issues.

I may try a set of Stack Audio Auva 50.  And buy a SmoothLan while I'm at it. 

I know the Auva 70 and 100 are better, but with my system being on concrete, I think the 50s will be good enough. Better than what I have now for sure. 

@ronboco You have exceptionally well braced and quiet speakers with a special base, no? I don't know how much the podiums would do for you. Probably just an email to Townshend would give you something to think more about, in relation to you situation and gear.

@hilde45 

Thank you for your thoughts. It is hard to know if vibrations will keep traveling through the concrete or reflect back up the spikes. I wonder now if my dial indicator test was a true indication of my cabinet resonance. It would be great to actually measure the resonance of the cabinets 

See the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW9-r83IvhI&ab_channel=TownshendAudio

Here’s a guess at one question, @ronboco 

While spikes increase the coupling that helps to stabilize the speaker and direct energy into the floor, the mechanical connections are still two-way.The speaker vibrates, that energy is transmitted down the spike into the concrete and then some of that energy will inevitably reflect or be conducted back up the spike and into the speaker cabinet. Even a concrete floor despite significant mass is not a perfect absorber of vibration. It can still resonate and transmit vibrations that will then conduct back into the speaker via the spikes, potentially introducing coloration or distortion to the sound.

The question becomes: how much vibration is happening and is it audible. That would be a very specific question  – about hearing, perception, and the spikes, speakers, and floors involved.
 

@goose , Yes , I’m wondering where this will end up and probably where you are. I totally trust Hilde45’s opinion, and he’s tried everything. But I need to travel the path of finding out. If they were domestic and not $1800, I would have just purchased them. Question, my speakers footprint will work on a size 3, but per center of mass to center of platform I might need bigger. Any experience with that? FWIT my son in laws handle is BOB, he was an F-18 pilot and now a T-45 instructor. In the movie it meant Baby on Board. That’s not even remotely close to what it means. 😆 Respectfully, Mike B 

Also how can we know the platforms don’t alter the pistonic movement of the drivers thus altering the sound? 

Trying to understand the Townsend podiums better I wonder how many here have actually measured how much their speakers are resonating. I would want to know that going in I think. Also why wouldn’t speaker vibrations dissipate in a concrete floor ? What makes them come back up into the spike? 

I have been very happy using the Stack Audio AUVA 70 isolators on my speakers. Tighter bass, better imaging, and increased clarity have been especially impressive. The larger AUVA 100 is supposed to be even more effective although it is also more expensive.

The advantage of the AUVA footers is that they are designed to provide stability for the speaker (so they don't tilt or bounce around) while also using dampening particles inside the footers that can prevent vibration from traveling from the speaker to the floor and from the floor to the speaker. Stack also has an excellent 60-day return policy that makes a trial with the AUVAs a low-risk investment. 

I can give me experience with Townshend podiums.  My situation is having my speakers on a second story wood framed construction with carpet.  I was getting bass modes and transmission issues via the floor.  I tried spikes, no spikes, gliders, limestone bases with spikes and no spikes.  Nothing worked except the Townshend podiums which actually decoupled the speakers from the floor.     

@knockknock12 , Thank you they have my interest too. Any recommendation in size for the 115lb Tektons would be appreciated. Cheers , Mike B 

@tomcarr , Yes I agree with you as that’s what I’ve historically done. I remember a project with a friend where we obtained big metal stands that were copies of Sound Anchors , and had a pair of Westlake  BBSM-15’s with a horizontal array on top and big sharp spikes into the cement through the carpet. They were so heavy it was absolutely into the concrete. I’ve rolled that way from the beginning for floor standers. Or big near field monitors on stands with spikes. But after reading all the positive feedback over that past few years I’m setting out to hear for myself. If it wasn’t for moisture concerns I’d throw down a couple big cement or granite slabs. But I need breathability. I have a 40 gun 500 lb steel safe and I had to move it out to the garage due to moisture wicking. I’m going to install the factory spikes today , and listen for a couple days. That will be my base opinion and I’ll go from there. I’ll try a couple footer / pedestal configurations with wood and maybe stone. Then spikes on that , followed by some form of cheaper decoupling methods. If I keep getting improvements I’ll try the platforms. One I’m being frugal and half the joy is finding out. I’m really appreciative of the respectful and insightful input. Thank you , Mike B. 

@sls883 , yes I received an email from him also, he must have reached out due to our conversation. I see @hilde45 comments regarding this person which gives us both confirmation of legitimacy. FWIW the Orange Buell in my bio pic was a 2000M2, it replaced my 1997M1. It was originally built by the race shop at H-D of Modesto as they ran the Battle-Twin races back in the day. It was based on stock Buell lower with https://millennium-technologies.com/ Nikasil 1250cc cylinders. Had late model Sportster heads reworked to support 8K rev limiter. When I received in a trade I had Chris Rivas ( Worlds Faster Bagger ), go through the cylinders and heads. On a Dynjet it was about 115 rwhp on pump gas. Had stock final drive gearing and a slightly larger rear tire. Ran to about 155 mph before the limiter kicked in , and was still pulling. Had a D&D race pipe , Olhins, Works Performance, Race Tech suspension and brakes. Also had a stage I 2000 Road King, sold em 2 years ago. 

@sls883 ​@buellrider97  John Hannant is who I dealt with. Because Townshend sells on A'gon, they notice when they're discussed on fora. I had good experiences with John for purchasing and also advice. I trust him and another Colorado friend bought two large sets of podiums and was very satisfied.

After seeing the following which shares similarity to my suggestion, I visited Amazon to see is a Castor might be recommendable, and then discovered the Castor Design in the Link.

These do look like they cover both requirements, easy manoeuvring and a 'on the fly' Rigid Contact option as well. A little pricey for a Temporary usage but not too much to instantly dismiss them. 

Where the footers also win is that a little thought for an added base plate 'if required' will allow for the Speaker Baffle to be taken out of being Vertically Plumb, and be tilted toward the Listener or tilted away from the listener. I have found the best sweet spot when a Cabinet Speaker has a forward lean between 1/2" to 1'.   

 "I was having to move my speakers around into the room find the best positioning.  Started using the felt furniture pads to slide  them out on hardwood floors.  Worked but to make it easier thought I would try 2” black vinyl castor wheels $30 on Amazon.  They are great for pulling the towers into position and I was shocked how well they sounded. Sitting on the small tips of the vinyl wheels with brackets sure worked for me." 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HOLKIE-Leveling-Workbench-Industrial-Adjustable/dp/B0C612VH9R/ref=sr_1_42?asc_source=01H8HFYCRM99TJ9FED7FSB1ZXC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.uvmXF9j0gz9IcDtft8j9DfIpCxkRzQYx4erdWw7QdySodhbL7CrS4s9h6mfhVeAKe4q76WfndZYQCXCfrvFYXtljupJJz05qRP1n8a1uRcVjIrC3KxqFNlNs_ofac1U4wR7XfI8SBiaaqyTL6rBicFSWujmU_IDRL9vWIMufHf_cgi3oaK1ie9AgVpgt3qoxQGlo_R7g6FpAeyex9gYj3Rx5RNElJIrr5483TFBR6zErFlNnPQzcuexeXhhIrzn-_gKGY-Em4ctujDVq2iFPoVw2QJHePcVpxg8Bpm4nS5A.zHWE1-mzYEU_onlo0eOlLcfoYV7Hr06atGO085GGUF4&dib_tag=se&keywords=castors%2Bwheels&qid=1749493467&sr=8-42&tag=snxgb19-21&th=1

PPS biggest bang for the buck ever!

PS you can find cheap spikes with a lock nut at any hardware store

I agree with the above posters who suggested use spikes and make sure they make contact directly with the concrete slab so that your speakers will have zero movement. 

That is exactly what I did decades ago when I was dealing with a carpeted floor.

Made a huge difference in clarity, imaging and soundstage.

@buellrider97 A guy named John Hannant replied through Agon messaging which seems a little weird.  I reached out through their website and not through Agon.  He sent a link to their items on Agon.  No product recommendation although I gave him the specs on my speakers and requested a recommendation. 

@ghdprentice 

Please let us know if you think the podiums are worth the investment. 

I´d try Stack Audio AUVA 50´s. Much better than GAIA etc in my opinion. And you can use them with the provided spikes or without. In my system they made a HUGe improvement. 😀 

@buellrider97 Thank you.  That's good information.  I'll report back with any feedback that I get from Townshend.

Yeah, I've had the sls883 name for a long time.  My first Harley was an 883.  Within months, I went to a 1200 Custom.  Then a Deuce.  I had a numbered paint set on it and cool wheels.  Wish I still had it.  Then a Road King, then Road King Custom.  Riding where I lived in Nebraska was not much fun (flat cornfields), so I eventually sold them. 

@dekay , I currently do not have anything but spikes and the non pointed OEM equivalent. I have a pair of 26” Sound Anchor 3 leg stands that weigh about 60 lbs each. I’ve run JBL and Klipsch Heresy on them. Just spiked through the carpet. I HAD blue dots but they melted and damaged the unfinished Heresys. I have a pair of Zu Omens that I ran spiked in place of the previously mentioned speakers. At only 50 lbs I had to lean on them to pierce the carpet and pad. I then purchased Timber Nation 4” thick footers with spikes to put under the ZU’s. I put the spiked ZU’s on brass cups with the footers. Looked great, sounded like crap. I talked to Sean Casey and experimented per his suggestion with spacing the ZU’s. I eventually gave up not being able to improve the SQ which was pretty good to begin with. I’m changing to a higher power rig with Rogue M-180’s and Rogue Hera pre. Hence I purchased the Tektons to get me by until I could afford something nicer. So I’m at day 4 with the Tektons sitting bare bottom on the wrong wall with the wrong amp. The funny thing is they actually sound decent. So my goal is correct room placement, new component shelf, NO TV, gear low to floor and room treatments. I’m currently trying to avoid subs and am considering what I’ve asked about in the thread. I’d try the Timber Nation footers but at 14”x14”x4” they are smaller than the 12”x18” footprint of the Double Impacts. I’m looking at new thinking as mentioned above , but struggle with not knowing and spending close to $2K to experiment. Then throw in the carpet and I have where I’m at. So far I’ve done everything I can to compromise the SQ of the Tektons and playing Tool at 95db with a cheap modded Akitika op amp , they sound really good. Go Figure. So with only spikes to try and wanting to try something new , I’ll probably get some 18x24 bamboo cutting boards and/or some similar sized sheets of quartzite or marvel to try. I’ll try spiked on that and maybe Herbies on that. I can discard the sheets and return or repurpose the Herbies. I figure that will let me know if I’m on the correct course before I pony up for Gaia’s or Townsend platforms. Maybe my logic is incorrect but these are my thoughts. I respect and appreciate all the input and I’m fine with criticism of what I’m doing. I’m just looking for the answers most of you already know. Cheers , Mike. 

@sls883 , locate the ad in AGON Sales section. Scroll to the very bottom, it shows 100% on 525 items. Also a link to their E-Store. Up top there is a buy now and a make offer. If I was to pull the trigger I’d directly ask for their best price or make an offer 5-10% under their asking price. It also stated free DSL shipping, but coming from UK I’d clarify if there is an import duty or tariff so you’re not surprised. I also watched Hans Vanbeeker ( spelling ? ) video review. He really liked it but was vetoed by the wife. One thing he pointed out was the center of gravity for the speaker is ideal to have at the center of the devise. He pointed out most speakers are weight forward center of gravity because of driver weight. He suggest putting a dowel under the speaker and rolling the speaker fore and aft to determine COG. And if you have offset drivers doing the same side to side. I just saw the video today and need to look further , but my first thought was do I need a larger size as I’d assumed one would just set the speaker centered. Might be irrelevant, not sure yet. But once you’ve established contact you can find out. Please let us know what you’ve learned.  Also noticed 883 in your logo, that’s a Harley displacement size. Cheers , Mike. 

@hilde45 

What was the measurement you took? It sounds like a test I would like to try. 

@buellrider97 Thank you.

I sent a message to Townshend though their website to get their recommendation for my speakers and I asked if they are a seller on Audiogon. I found a listing for $1799, but I can't figure out how to get seller info and feedback on them.  I've never purchased anything on Agon. 

Use what you already have and "spike" them through the carpet/pad directly to the cement slab.

Have you tried this?

DeKay

@ditusa , thank you I stumbled across that recently on my trek to a new understanding. This perfectly illustrates what I’m now learning. There’s a quote about “ Contempt prior to investigation “, and I’m open to the wisdom shared and look at it as a time/money saver leading me in the correct direction. @pindac , thank you great info I shall study this further. I’m liking the bags  for experimenting and just trying to move 115lb speakers alone. Cheers , Mike B. 

@ronboco jump in measurement