@curtousjim: No, the Townshend Podium does not screw into the holes of ANY loudspeaker or it's bottom plate. The Podium is just a metal plate with Pods bolted onto it. If you want to keep the Reference 5's bottom plate (I would), just install a set of Pods in place of stock spikes. You COULD remove the stock plate and set the now-baseless speaker on the Podium, but why?
The "magic" of the Townshend Seismic products is in the Pod itself, not in the Podium or Platform plate they are bolted onto. The Podium and Platform models are offered for loudspeakers which don't have a bottom plate or base; yours already do. As I said above, I bolted Pods onto the bases Sound Anchors makes for my loudspeaker, in place of the stock spikes.
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if you think the ISO acoustic Gaia sound good then you should try the Townshend podiums, they're much better at speaker isolation but they cost three times as much as the iso acoustic but well worth it.
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bdb24, only the podium is for speakers, the platforms are for electronics like CD player or DAC
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bdp24, I talked with John at Townsend and he said that the pods are only for electronics not to be put under speakers because your speaker will topple and be unstable, and he said that you're the only one that has done that.
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curiousjim,
you can leave the plate on or off it's up to you but just make sure that you get the proper cells put on, you've got to take the weight of your speaker plus the weight of the podium to have the proper cells, if you get in touch with John at Townshend he'll help you
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Have the 2 series under my W-B Vectors and the 1 series under my DBA. Huge improvement with the 2, notable with the 1. Things just kind of locked in.
I would have liked to try the Townsend but was concerned that they would be difficult to move in my combined living/listening space. The Gaias are attached to the speaker and merely require a slight tip to either side to place a towel under them and the speakers can then be easily slid. I think they can look a little clunky but they are certainly not ugly. Probably depends on the speaker.
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@bdp24
“@curtousjim: No, the Townshend Podium does not screw into the holes of ANY loudspeaker or it's bottom plate. The Podium is just a metal plate with Pods bolted onto it. If you want to keep the Reference 5's bottom plate (I would), just install a set of Pods in place of stock spikes. You COULD remove the stock plate and set the now-baseless”
So are you saying I would need pods and the podiums?
That seems like major overkill to me.
JD
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curiousjim,
The only reason I would remove your metal plate is because you said it has bumps on it from where the spikes are to go. That could be a problem with stability.
So, if it is easy to remove I would.
BTW, once the podiums are installed, it will probably scare you a bit as to how much they can wobble. One time I leaned against them while adjust some cabling and when they wobbled I thought they were going to tip so I let go causing me to loose balance, I fell to the floor and crushed a couple KT 120 tubes in my mono blocks on the way down. I’m not saying the podiums make them unstable, just be aware.
ozzy
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@havocman: Your most recent post tells me two separate issues have become conflated:
1 - Using individual Pods bolted onto your loudspeaker’s stock bases VS. removing the bases and placing your now-baseless loudspeakers on Podiums.
2- My unique situation of using 3 Pods bolted onto my Sound Anchor tripod-style speaker bases VS. you using 4 Pods with your loudspeakers.
Unless I’m mistaken, I believe what John is telling you is NOT that the use of individual Pods under your speakers will be unstable, but rather the use of 3 of them will be. I can confirm that 4 is much more stable than three. I first tried 3 Pods under a relatively heavy turntable (VPI Aries 1), and that was a failure. The table did indeed flop around, side-to-side and front-to-back. 4 is definitely far better than 3 in that application. 3 was also unstable under the very heavy Esoteric DV-50S digital player; 4 is much better. Interestingly, both the table and digital player have moving parts. However, under my lightweight electronics (with no moving parts), 3 works fine. Just move the Pods around until the mass is distributed between them such that balance is achieved. With individual Pods, you can even use a higher-weight rated model under the transformer end of a power amp.
In any case, you should definitely take John’s advice on all things Townshend. However, if you look at the individual Pods and the Pods attached to the Podium, you will see they are identical. The only difference is that the Podium has adjustment knobs on the top of the Podium plate, making leveling easier than it is with individual Pods. But the individual Pods are adjustable as well, just without the knob.
So if you have the dough, and don’t mind springing for the higher-priced Podium, great, go for it. But I’m telling you: four individual Pods bolted onto your stock bases will be just as stable as the Podium, ASSUMING THE BASES ARE THE SAME SIZE.AS THE PODIUM PLATE. And also the same thickness/stiffness/anti-resonant, etc. All the Podium is, is 4 individual Pods attached to a metal plate. It IS a nice plate ;-) .
The reason 3 Pods work with my loudspeakers/outriggers but is not generally recommendable is because of the unique design of the Sound Anchors stands, the mass distribution of the loudspeakers, and the front-to-back vs. left-to-right dimensions. In general, 4 is definitely the way to go. In fact, I will shortly be getting stands for my speakers (Eminent Technology LFT-8b) that Grant Mye is willing to make, and I will be bolting 4 Pods onto them. Why the Mye stand instead of the Townshend Podium? In addition to a metal base, the Mye stand has struts that extend from the base up to near the top of the LFT-8b’s planar panel, providing support and bracing to the entire structure.
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@curious Jim: No. The Podium is fitted with 4 Pods. If you get the Podium, you obviously don’t need individual Pods.
So, the choice is to either remove a loudspeakers’ stock base (if any) and set the speaker on the Podium, or, if you are happy with the stock base/outrigger of your speaker, use 4 individual Pods in place of the (presumably) stock spikes.
Talk to John at Townshend, and follow his advice is my advice. He expressed to me his reservations about my idea of using 2 "C" Pods on the front of each of my Sound Anchor stands and 1 "D" Pod on the rear (in place of the 3 stock spikes), but I decided to give it a try. It may not be the best choice in most applications, but works in mine.
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The Gaia raise the tweeter height so that’s going to be a noticeable change. I imagine the height increase also helps a bit to reduce the floor bounce reflection.
As a side-note, it is interesting that every Gaia discussion gets flooded with Townshend Audio plugs.
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Thanks @bdp24 for the reply. I understand now.
JD
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If I got the Townsend Platforms, would I remove my steel plate and sit it on their steel plate?
I wouldn't as the outriggers provide lateral stability for the Reference 5. The podiums only have a small amount of lateral movement, but I'd feel better knowing the speakers had their designed lateral support if someone (somehow) crashes into them. The podiums don't have any provision for bolting down speakers.
I'm a big fan of the Townshend podiums, I tried the Gaia prior to getting the podiums but returned them (disclosure, I didn't have both at the same time for a contemporaneous assessment).
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@seanheis1
On my KEF’s, the Gaia’s raise the speakers maybe half an inch higher than the spikes. With the dispersion of the tweeters, I’m not sure there’s going to be much change in the sound.
JD
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Thanks @ozzy
The bumps probably add 1/2” in height to the bottom plate, but the plate adds about 3” in the front and about 5” in width on the back and while there are currently No tubes in this system, I would still be concerned about it being more tippy.
All the best.
JD
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what kind of ----u pulling . u getting paid for bull ---?
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seanheis1,
I am just stating my ACTUAL experience since I own both the Gaias and the Townshends. No plugs just trying to share information.
ozzy
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Anything you add under a component will change the sound. All over 25 years have said the same more open, more details, tighter bass. I’ve found the feet that came with the unit and were part of the design sound more natural. Same as spikes under speakers, most I’ve found sounded better without them, spikes became a must for sales and became ingrained in selling speakers. I did like my Dynaudio with their spikes but that’s been it for me. Now having said my experience, I would also say if you like the changes you hear then that is all that matters. el-natural for me though. Herbies Audio tenderfeet I have heard several times and I will say they did not alter the tone, weight, and color of gear they were used under.
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curiousjim,
After reviewing your speakers, I do think that the Gaia’s would work better. The design is such that the outriggers support the speakers.
ozzy
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take a rock any size any shape and stick them under your speakers this will make the same differance in the sound .dont be fooled into spending money for nothing. try this method and get back to me on what you actually are hearing
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Thanks @ozzy
That was my thought as well. Next, do I order the Indigo pods for my amp or is there better alternatives.
JD
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@phillyb
If the KEF’s were on Hardwood or similar flooring, I’d tend to agree with you, but we’re talking carpet and pad that seems to suck the life out of them. I started without anything but the plate, then to spikes (no difference) then spikes on blocks(little difference) then spikes on one inch granite (noticeable difference) and now the Gaia’s with a big difference! By the time the granite sunk into the carpet everything is about 1 1/4-1 1/2” higher.
It’s still a work in progress.
JD
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Well I have the Critical Mass footers under my equipment.
ozzy
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Gaia carpet spikes for carpet. Really makes a difference. As much as the footers. No, really.
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@celtic66
What do you have under your carpet and I’m guessing pad? I have oak hardwood and was told that the way the spikes work is by going through everything until it hits solid. When I asked about possible damage, the answers were all over the map. I couldn’t see how they couldn’t do damage to my floor, so I came up with an alternative.
All the best.
JD
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Thanks Oz,
I’ll check out Critical Mass footers.
JD
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The room has wall to wall carpet and pad on the floor and when I first received the Reference 5’s, they sounded flat. I put small hardwood flooring samples under them and it helped a little.
Did not understand oak flooring under the carpet, assumed sub-flooring. Best success with the trial and error.
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I’ve been using springs like the Nobsound. Once I adjusted the number of springs to allow for about 1/2 compression, world of difference.
So good I ordered a pair of Townshend Podiums today. I appreciate all the expertise on this site, your positive experiences made it a risk worth taking.
**** Question for podium owners. I have standmounts on heavy stands. How would you place the stand-mounts on the stands, just blu tack?
Thanks-
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@phillyb I MUST use my Townshend Sink under my VPI TNT VI turntable. It has inadequate/ineffective footers, much worse than the spring and rubber feet of my earlier VPI 19-4. I also require Ultra SS Stillpoints under my preamp/phono stage which has a cheap metal base. I use carpet piercing spikes that came with my 180lb speakers which go into a 12" 3000 psi steel reinforced slab. I use 1/2" granite slabs under other electronics as I prefer the sound of the equipment as intended by the developers. I'm not certain about my Bryston Bit20 iso trans 95lbs so I put the same Stillpoints under it as well.
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I have found no efficacy with footers under components, but I am a major fan of GIAIA footers under my speakers. Best tweak ever that I have tried and I have tried a lot of them. Townshend isolation devices might be more efficacious, but they are far more expensive.
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bdp24
Thank You for the follow up to my query.
Happy Listening!
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Help educate me please. Wouldn’t the pistonic movement of the drivers make the whole speaker move back and forth on the podiums? And this in turn would alter the performance and sound of the speaker ?
Ron
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@ronboco Hey Ron, I've heard that argument from a local dealer against the idea of isolation/de-coupling and used in favor of coupling. The argument in favor of de-coupling is that the environment affects the speakers (or components) negatively, and that an isolation solution protects against those environmental affects.
I know that high-end recording studios will using floating floors to isolate against environmental impacts. I believe Townsend's website has their philosophy on it--something about small tectonic shifts on the other side of the world measurably affecting your HiFi if I recall. Make of that what you will.
With all the positive recommendations here from people who have isolated, I would recommend trying it if you haven't already.
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@classdstreamer
Thank you for the response. I did know about environmental impacts and it is the overwhelming majority to decouple. I’m not sure how one would go about testing if there is a negative effect from the whole speaker moving besides the listening test. I guess if there is a negative to decouple the positive must out weigh it. I do have Gaia footers in our home theatre family room because it is a suspended floor. I did notice the bass dropped off noticeably with the Gaia feet. Still sounds good though. We have a 2 channel system in the basement. Carpet over concrete. The speakers weigh 220 lbs. each so I’m not sure if any footers would make a big difference.
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@ronboco
I guess if there is a negative to decouple the positive must out weigh it.
That’s a good way to say it. So many advancements in engineering (and life) are still tradeoffs, but with an overall net gain.
I’m not certain what the best solution might be for your basement with carpet over concrete. My home theater space has tile floors (for now), and my HiFi space has wood floors. In both cases, I felt decoupling the sub and speakers made a big improvement. While one way of describing the the effect of decoupling is that the bass "dropped off noticeably," I would also add that in my experience, the bass still pressurized the room the same and the sound became dramatically more transparent. When coupled, my walls and floor where activated, and the sound was very muddy as a result. While plenty of people in car audio and at concerts seem to want to "feel" the bass, I would argue that lots of resolution and imaging was lost in my case and that the sound became higher quality on net in my rooms. A concrete slab might be different though.
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@classdstreamer
I agree that the footers were a positive move SQ wise. The subs are also decoupled with the OREA footers. I’ll probably give something a try in the basement as well.
Regards
Ron
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@ronboco
If you’re interested, Isoacoustics have their Gaia Titan series. Not sure of all the specifics, but I know they can fit your 220# speakers. Oh, and the carpet spikes they sell are designed for the floor you have(carpet on concrete).
All the best.
JD
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@curiousjim
Thank you for the tip. I will definitely check them out. Those Ref 5s are great speakers! Enjoy!
Ron
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I am a fan. I have Gaia II on Joseph Audio Perspective2 and Yamaha NS-5000. I use Gaia I on my PSAudio FR-20. When I buy new speakers, I automatically purchase isoacoustic gaias.
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I put the GAIA I underneath my Legacy Audio speakers and the soundstage and everything opened up. I was able to hear the difference immediately. Well worth the money.
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