Finally! I Made An Informed Choice
OK Friends.
You may remember my wet behind the ears post https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/are-super-expensive-streamers-really-worth-it
Well, folks It’s been a while since I first posted at the beginning of my journey down the Rabbit hole that is DAC’s & Streamers. I have decided that one could keep going and never reach the bottom. So I decided to click my heels and return to the real world.
I took on board many of the views and absorbed much of the advice in response to my original post and after doing a great deal more research and getting to listen to a fair few different combos DAC’s Streamers, DAC /Streamers. Albeit some at shows which is never the best idea. I have learned that many of the established principles of better Hifi applies just as much in the digital domain as within the analogue chain.
I also learned to put my analogue roots into temporary hibernation, realize that I knew even less about this mysterious world digital audio than I’d hoped and what I did know was often passively assimilated, sometimes assumed and often not really known.
I thought Id turn to the best arbiter of what suited me and would offer the best synergy in my system. I decided to employ the ears and emotions.
To that end I have listened to DAC’s, Streamers, DAC/Streamers across price bands in many combinations and yes of course, there is a huge difference in how these products sound. The differences are a lot tighter though, when you get into the higher end as compared to Mid Fi and the so called "Value" end.
I also realized that whilst it is possible to elevate a cheap streamer by using a relatively expensive DAC its has its limits, it is possible the other way around too. However, both routes offered potential for clever matching and upgrading, However neither it is a cheat to rival a true audiophile instrument.
I heard clearly why Power supplies matter so much in DAC’s and Streamers, I also learned that it becomes much tougher to rate DAC’s Streamers and Combos of the same combined standard. It seemed far more about a POV or the presentation and tonal balance, not that one type or combo was always objectively better than another
I eventually narrowed my search down to two combo Streamer DAC’s. The older but absolutely gorgeous looking Lumin X1 with its supremely quiet off board PSU and the very different but very impressive Aurrender A20.
Which brings me to my final and perhaps not so controversial decision. I found the Aurrender amazed with its energy and ability to dig deep, it was certainly no shrinking violet and an exciting, impressive listen.
The Lumin X1 seduced me with a magical tonal balance which I feel gave it an ease and ability to sound both refined and exciting and always it seems in the right measure. It’s a trait not often found in the uncompromising world of high end digital HIFI or any other HIFI domain for that matter. The way that the Lumin presented often left me speechless and its build quality totally blew me away.
In the final the final moments of appreciation I found that I couldn’t quite square away the look of the Aurrender and how it remined me of a small form factor desk-top PC which has cleverly incorporated a screen into the front of it.
What really was a contrast is how it looked on the inside, it was full of good power-supplies and reall nice quality components but within a seemingly congested environment. I thought, probably unkindly, it looked a bit like the inside of my gaming PC’s I used to build it seems every week!
It never really hit my spot in the way the Lumin did but if the Lumin was not in the picture I could have seen me taking a punt on it. It will be the right choice for many but not quite for me.
In contrast the Lumin was incredibly well laid out, so well, that it was just a stunning, beautiful thing to stare at. Maybe it deserved a Perspex window and some ambient lighting, so it could be seen. No! ok, I got carried away there. It just doesn’t need to self-publicize. You just know the moment you pick it up that this is a very serious instrument.
So, I guess for me as I worked my way through the equations, the Lumin X1 realized the most elegant solution and it wasn’t that close in the end. Somewhat unsurprisingly then, I chose a Pre-Loved Lumin X1 because nothing I heard even though the model is a few years old to me allowed me to be as emotional about digital music reproduction as the experience X1 afforded me. It shifted my paradigm more than I ever thought possible.
The X1 has something magical about its sound, I am not going to say the “X factor” I hear the disapproving groans!
So, let me just say it was described by the seller as a very special piece and now I truly understand. So unflustered, so relaxed though never slow or lazy or lacking detail. Even music that can confuse electronics with its layers, complexity and dynamics, it remains uncluttered and un-phased within its other-worldly black background.
Another lesser reason but already a good one, is that I don’t need the distraction of a massive tv screen between my speakers and felt that everything that has gone into this machine is based on the best principles of HIFI design. Even the one sop to convenience, the small but well-judged screen was just right and you decide whether it’s on or off.
I also realized just how ill-equipped my listening room is for optimizing my use of the X1. I have work out how to bring both optical and Cat cable connection neatly and elegantly to the unit in my listening room.
I am not intending to use Roon, I am intending to continue with Tidal and try out Qobuz.
Incidentally I have fiber into my home although like most of us, its CAT into the router and WIFI to everything else from there. I have a modern (less than a year old WIFI Router) The X1 supports optical fiber input via its own SFP port. Unsurprising then that my router does not support SFP.
So is it better to invest in a new router that offers SFP function, (I’d rather not as there are so many things in my home that are working well with it) or should I purchase a network switch that can be connected to the router using Cat cable and then SFP out, although that puts another piece of equipment in the chain.
I intend interchanging between optical and CAT cable until I decide which best suits my ears, although sub-consciously I fear I am already convincing myself that SFP/ optical will be the better option. So, would I be inviting noise loops if I connected both to the same switch to do A-B comparisons. Once I decide, I would disconnect one or other, only using it as a back-up connection.
To that end I Thank you for getting to the end of my diatribe. I would appreciate input, views and or advice on getting this beautiful piece hooked up to my router and in a way that gets the best out of it. particularly utilizing optical isolation.
Congratulations on your purchase of your Lumin. Obviously you are someone that researches very deeply. High end streamers can be very insensitive to their input since they isolate and cash the bits If yours is not operational. Then just use an wifi extender for now and then do your wiring. Sounds like a project you are looking forward to. |
Thanks I am now that I have made the purchase. I got bashed about a bit by some on the forum but that’s ok as I learned a great deal even after jumping in two footed! I'm not looking forward to getting the right conection into my listening room its going to be tricky but since I have put considerabl effort into getting my preferred streamer I owe it at least that. |
@ghdprentice Nice Freudian slip.
|
Congratulations on your acquisition. I am a long time user of LUMIN products. I let my ears lead me first. My KISS (keep it simple stupid} principles second. My bank account third. Follow the LUMIN recommendation on optical connectivity. You won't go wrong. One more tip. If you can, run the X1 directly into your power amp using LEEDH volume. Watch your volume levels! If you can't do that and you have an integrated amp with a home theater bypass use those inputs. There really is something about the Lundahl transformers on the outputs of the unit. It took the X1 to another level sonically. I think you probably have to spend 50k and up to beat that thing and even then it would just be mostly different. |
@noromance Thanks... more like a autocorrect slip... but yes. |
@ghdprentice & @noromance ....Autocorrected 'crash' to 'cash', creating a F Slip.... |
Congratulations I don’t have an internet wired home. I set up a mesh network and put the remote node near my streamer so I can use the LAN out of the node to hard wire the input to the streamer. I ran a really long run of LAN cable down the stairs hooked directly to the modem and compared. I could not hear a difference. |
g2the2nd
Hi thanks for your post and the Congrats. I wanted to share a little more of my journey into the world of streaming, particularly network connectivity in a hi-fi setup—especially for those of us who don’t have the luxury of Ethernet cabling throughout the house. Recently, I lent my Lumin X1 to a good friend—an IT manager and fellow music lover. He connected it to the end of one of his mesh Wi-Fi nodes and was blown away by the sound quality. This is someone who already owns a very respectable streamer and offboard DAC, so his reaction was encouraging. Like many, my home isn’t wired for Ethernet and presents some setup Challenges The fiber comes into my home office on the first floor, where the router lives. My listening room is on the ground floor in a two-storey extension—about 6 metres away as the crow flies, but realistically 10–15 metres in terms of cable routing. I’m not keen on running visible cables through walls or floors, so I’ve been exploring alternatives. Not without controversy, I recently tried the TP-Link AV1300 powerline adapter. Despite my listening room being on a different ring main from the rest of the house, the adapters paired within seconds. I haven’t yet tested the connection speed (my laptop lacks an Ethernet port), but I connected a CAT 8 cable from the powerline outlet to my WiiM Pro—my first “toe-dip” into streaming—and it reported a strong connection. To be honest, it sounded great. I can’t recall how it compared to when it was on weak Wi-Fi, as time has intervened but I never experienced dropouts even then. The Noise Question I know is a topic that opens up a whole aisle in the hi-fi supermarket full of rabbit holes and cans of worms. However, I remain open-minded. I chose CAT 8 cables because they’re well-shielded and robust—why not use the best available and it was more belt an braces Still, I wonder, even with CAT 8, is there still risk of noise from external sources? Here’s a left-field idea I’m considering. Would I benefit from placing an SFP-equipped switch downstream of the powerline adapter, and using an optical SFP connection to the Lumin X1? The X1 supports optical Ethernet via SFP, and I understand that optical provides complete electrical isolation—potentially eliminating any noise carried over copper. Even over a short run, could this improve the noise floor or overall clarity? I’d appreciate yours and the forums thoughts. Has anyone else tried downstream optical Ethernet in a similar setup? Is it worth the effort, or is it more audiophile folklore than fact?
|
Congratulations on the Lumin!
I have read the Lumin’s really benefit using fiber, but do a search, maybe even ask Lumin what is best, if it doesn’t state anything in the manual. In this thread the OP suggests he prefers optical, and down in the thread is wklie = Peter Lie, the lead dude for Lumin. |
This looks like a good place to research optical connections: https://www.audioshark.org/threads/lumin-x1-fiber-optic-network-discussions.14265/ |
Congratulations on your pick. There are options for many of us audiophiles. Doing research and homework is key but also knowing what YOU are looking for. I think people have specific tastes and concerns which make their choices uniquely their own. Some people are looking for the latest and greatest? equipment or brands. Some are far more budget oriented and others want equipment that matches well. Others might equate expensive gear as being the best and that’s what will make them happy. The BEST speaker is not what is in front of your eyes, it’s what is behind them. |
2psyop Thanks that’s an interesting and sound take on the Audiophile buying ritual. I believe that the Lumin X1 and I ended up together not because it staked the claim of being "latest and greatest" the X1 is not the new kid on the block, nor that I was going in feet first with pre-conceived ideas that it had to meet. I was looking for a connection similar to the often emotional experience I still get from my vinyl record playing equippment. Yes I needed a baseline to be able to shortlist a few Streamers and Streamer/DAC’s but I was cautious about pouring over endless reviews and absorbing too many subjective opinions, all the while clouding my decision making and losing my relatively open mind. I knew that I didn’t want flashy, I wanted non intrusive functionality. Sound was something only I could appraise but I knew I’d recognize it when I heard it. I never expected to connect with this piece in the way I have, but there is something special about how music sounds for me from the X1. That the Lumin X1 subjectively ticks all the boxes aesthetically and the build quality is unequivocally top draw, is the icing on the cake. I won’t worry at all about the next .0001 of performance that might come from the next shiney shiney box of tricks to hit the market. I just intend to enjoy the music, presented in a way that compliments my hifi chain, all the way to the last bit in that chain "behind the ears" as you so succinctly expessed it.
|
v-fiThanks, I am now finding out just how respected the brand is. I am already happy with my choice but nonetheless, its nice to hear others have had similar experiences. |
A shop I like to frequent managed to play 3 different dac's for me including a lumin, not sure the model, and a couple others. 1 of the dac's sounded colored and the other 2 while sounding different were so similar I could have been happy with either, 1 was an affordable Lumin that was half the price of the other 2, but honestly I've been fooled by electronic devices so many times I can only judge components by how they sound to me in my system. To that end and my ears and budget have decided a decent dac is good enough for me. I did appreciate this thread tho'. |
@nubiann congrats! I highly recommend you try Roon though. Lumin UI is pretty bad. Compare sound quality between using lumin as roon end point vs lumin native app vs tidal connect or qobuz connect. If I’m not mistaken the latest roon update or few iterations prior seemed to have had addressed some of the sound quality issues they had before. I’m back to using Roon and it sounds very good. |
Thanks for the tip bud, I will take a Roon trial soon. At the moment, I'm focussed on bringing a Fibre internet connection into my listening room and getting a better understanding if what I'm hearing from Tidal connect. This will give me a better foundation upon which, I can appraise Roon. I will report back though but not for a few weeks I suspect. One thing I have noticed as a relative newbie to streaming, is my propensity to "track hop", where as I rarely if ever do this when I listen to my vinyl. Not saying this is a good or bad thing but it is a very different experience. |
I totally get your rationale Steve. Ultimately the only person who needs to be happy with your HiFi is you. The sound has to be what you want to hear. I was seduced by the Lumin X1 having listened to a number of combinations, it was the one I emotionally connected to the music with and having taken the punt, I could have returned the Lumin if that magic I heard hadn't translated to what I heard at home. Thankfully if anything it scaled even more, which may have been that my gear was technically superior to what I had listened to at the dealer. So as you can imagine, its definitely staying with me for a long time to come. The X1 has an unassuming solidity to the design almost obelisk like, it doesn't draw atrention to itself with fjashy dysplays and lights, I turn off the display and it just works flawlessly. I wish you the very best on your journey, happy listening. |
Going all fiber can be a good thing, not all fiber created equal. All network equipment should be powered via LPS, quality fiber cable, transceivers all make a difference. If I had fiber IPS I'd not be doing an conversion to LAN/ethernet cable.
I'm also surprised you didn't go custom build server route being that you've built gaming computers. I've been building and modifying general service computers and music servers for years. My custom atx board build has been directly compared to high end music servers like the Aurrender W20SE and more than held it's own. This with a Sean Jacobs lps and modified internal switch mode power supply. My JCAT Optimo ATX lps well beyond that prior power supply. |
Interesting read on your journey. I’ve had many exhausting ones myself. When I was trying to find a cd players, it took 25 of them before I found the one that sounded right to my ears and that was the Meridian 508.24. Went through 5 streamers before deciding on a Aurender N20. Been through lots dacs, amps, speakers. Sometimes it’s just hard to make a decision so, I’ve ended up with 6 amps and 12 pairs of speakers that I rotate. |
But I am suoer happy with my acquisition