Chadnliz, If you had a noisy tube, horrendous RFI, or a worn stylus and you came here for advice, would you expect to hear "grow up guys?" I know this is hard for some to understand, but there are people here who are dead serious about music. They are not juvenile because they take exception to people who ruin their concert experience through rude and boorish behavior.
Fed up with people making noise at classical shows
Last night I heard Vladimir Feltsman perform Chopin's Ballades at the Perelman Theater in Philadelphia's Kimmel Center. My excitement was building as my favorite part of the first Ballade approached. Immediately before the key was struck, someone sneezed. It was at that moment that I asked myself, "What the hell am I doing here? I have this at home, recorded by three different pianists." Throughout the performance were the sounds of coughing, sneezing moving in one's seat, dropping of programs, and talking.
I know this is the chance you take when attending live classical concerts and I LOVE hearing live music, but frankly I'm sick of it. I'm sick of paying money for traveling and the ticket itself just to be annoyed for two hours. Last Tuesday night a ringing cell phone disrupted a performance by the New York Philharmonic to the point where the conductor actually stopped the orchestra half way through Mahler's Ninth and addressed the moron who wouldn't shut it off.
Once, DURING A PERFORMANCE, someone got out of their seat, walked up to the stage and began "conducting the orchestra" with an imaginary baton.
As I said, I love attending live music, but when things like this happen, I'm ready to just stay home and save myself the aggravation.
Sorry, just had to vent.
I know this is the chance you take when attending live classical concerts and I LOVE hearing live music, but frankly I'm sick of it. I'm sick of paying money for traveling and the ticket itself just to be annoyed for two hours. Last Tuesday night a ringing cell phone disrupted a performance by the New York Philharmonic to the point where the conductor actually stopped the orchestra half way through Mahler's Ninth and addressed the moron who wouldn't shut it off.
Once, DURING A PERFORMANCE, someone got out of their seat, walked up to the stage and began "conducting the orchestra" with an imaginary baton.
As I said, I love attending live music, but when things like this happen, I'm ready to just stay home and save myself the aggravation.
Sorry, just had to vent.
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Oh poor you having your concert ruined by a sneeze or cough, how "boorish" of the public to get in your way of enjoying the concert. Your lucky you can enjoy a show as am I being a season ticket holder for our local sympony but if its accidental noise I dont cry about it. I noted earlier phones and talking are a different story but you guys take it too far. Lets not try to qualify who is and isnt serious about music please. I can see why your bitter being a Browns fan, as I am too. Well now I tell everyone I am not a fan but a victim. :) My point was that if you and I are lucky enough to be able to enjoy regular concerts then life is pretty damn good, do you think people much worse off would sympathize with our "problem"? Cheer up! |
Chadnliz: Sorry if my first reaction upon hearing someone disrupt the music I'm 1) paying to hear, and 2) trying to have a emotional connection with, isn't, "Well, at least I have a job." While I understand the point you were trying to make, it still doesn't justify the actions by the people. There have been remarks calling some of us "classical snobs." We are not snobs, we just have the courtesy to respect the listening experience of others. |
Very interesting posts. In my opinion, I do not go to concerts, the theater, movies, etc. to hear the life of the person sitting near me. I came to see the movie, hear the performance, see the dance, etc. I do find it extremely rude when people can't or won't shut up and sit still during the performance. If they are having bodily functions that are difficult to control, get up and go to the lavatory. It is that simply. I notice some posts here whereby derogatory things are said about others. That is totally unnecessary. It is amazing how rude some people can get when they are posting online, but in person, they would never talk to others that way. It is my belief that MC's assume that people will be polite enough to excuse themselves if they need to. But maybe they need to make a statement to the audience about being considerate to others. One classical concert years ago, the conductor stopped the orchestra, because people were talking and coughing to distraction, turned to the audience and asked them pointedly to stop and excuse themselves and then continued. During the remainder of the concert, no one coughed. Not one person. Remember, this is your body, and you are or should be in control of your body. You feel gas building up, go to the lavatory. You don't cut loose in a room full of people. You have to cough, unless, something is stuck in your throat, you can control this. If you have a cough or cold/flu, take something to prevent coughing until the concert is over. This is called being considerate of others. Some people don't realize that what they are doing is rude, and some people simply don't care as demonstrated in some of the reply posts here. Maybe a sign or a statement from the officials saying, that "the audience is here to see/hear the performance, not you or your phone, so please leave your cold, flu, talking, phone, conversation, etc. at the door". Again, certain performances dictate that you get up and dance, sing, etc. Others, you sit, be silent and enjoy the performance. Young people who's parents are sometimes five minutes older than they are were never taught or told and that is all that is needed. Simply ask them to be quiet. It is funny to me reading some of the negative posts. At what point is something rude to those people? I know they have limits also. Anyone remember the TV show Serenity? One line stays with me. There is a special place in hell at the lowest level for people that take advantage of women and for people that talk in theaters. Very funny. enjoy |
This problem is not limited to classical venues. Live Jazz recordings suffer from noisey / indifferent audiences also. Esp those recorded in clubs. A good example is 'Ahmad Jamal at the Pershing.' His performance of 'Poinciana' was magical, but the talking and laughing in the audience just ruined it. Maybe being there would have beeen different, but on a recording, it's just a shame. And the applause was very, very 'polite.' What about violinist breathing? I have a sophie-Mutter sacd that I cannot listen to becasue of her breathing. I guess it's always something, as Miss Gilda always said. |
OK, I can't take it anymore. I think you guys are taking this a little too far. I think we can all agree that a perfectly quiet audience is best, and that some people are clueless and selfish, and .... But, it's not reality. We can't have it both ways. We can't have that which makes live performances special (the humanity) and expect total absence of it a the same time. If some extraneous noise at a performance can ruin (!?) the experience for you, then IMO you simply don't get what is special about the live experience to begin with. ****His performance of Poinciana was magical, but the talking in the background just ruined it**** Which is it? Was it magical? Or was it ruined? Listened to Bill Evans' Village Vanguard sessions lately? Didn't stop Evans from making amazing music. If he can do that with the talking in the background, surely I can muster up a way to enjoy it. |
I was speaking of a recording. That means you hear it every time you play it. It's like the audience being between you and the player. Thats a little different from being in the mood and moment at the club live. Violinist breathing, I would not even hear that at the live event. But I do hear it on CD. I hear it everytime I play it. Its louder than the soft passages of the music. Sorry I didn't make it clear. |
Haven't been to a classical concert in about 5 years, but I remember the same thing occuring, the sneezing, coughing, but without an air conductor in the first row. It's mystifying because it almost seems at times, like people do it intentionally. What price for an evening among the cultured!! LMAO. |
, Really? Go back and count how many times you have been called out for your attitude. I called you out for posting the same thing over and over; not for what you posted. I saw one other comment directed at you. That requires you to say the same thing a dozen times? You are just entertaining yourself at our expense by being obnoxious. Oh well, you get all kinds on the net. Take care . |
As long as you decide to attack me personally I have a right to not only reply but to stand by and continue to push my opinions. Im not a dog and wont roll over because you want me to, its obvious I made my point and its obvious you want to continue to stir things up. Whats ironic is your lecturing about not letting something go, try it yourself. |
I attended a Aussie Floyd show a few years ago. Behind me sat 2 couples that I'd guess were in their early 20s. The 2 men were into the show and focused on the music. The 2 ladies spent the ENTIRE time talking (loudly over the music), laughing, and texting. They appeared to have no interest in the music. Why bother coming if that's the case. I did my best to ignore them but it was frustrating. A cough or sneeze is of no concern to me but the above scenario is crossing the line so to speak. |
Pdspec1: Exactly my point. Talking loudly and laughing over the music at a rock concert is the equivalent to coughing and sneezing throughout a quiet classical piece with solo piano. Obviously a cough or sneeze is of no concern to someone attending a rock concert. We have to put things in perspective here. I wish someone else saw it that way too... So yes, I agree with you. |
, It would be interesting if we knew how old the posters are. I'm 56. My parents raised me to be polite, say yes sir and yes ma'am to our elders, hold doors open for ladies and help them on and off with their coats, we had evening meals with no TV or radio and had conversations. There was an attitude that you could do what you wanted as long as you weren't bothering somebody else. Go ahead and call me an old fart if you wish but I see that lacking in the generation coming into adulthood. Of course I have no way of knowing, but if I were a betting man I would bet that those who respond with smart ass one-liners and ridicule Devilboy because he would like to listen to a concert without being distracted are some of the younger people here. BYW I'm going to our local symphony this evening, I will do my best not to belch or pass gas during the performance. . |
You are 14 years older than me and my suggesting coughs and a accidental sneeze shouldnt ruin a night is far from suggesting everyone is free to do what they want. I noted several times examples of phones and conversations are unacceptable but thats been lost here. Once again its posts directed at me that invite continued participation. |
Here's a clickable link to the comments. Click on the "markup tags" link under the "Your response" dialog box to learn how. http://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/shaping-the-invisible/disengagement-rings |
I went to the opera last night, we had third row seats. Upon arrival at our seats my wife made a comment about how our view would surely be unobstructed. But, there was one seat free in front of mine, so I replied back, the view will be good provided that the person that will be seated in front of me wont be 7ft tall. Moments later, the person arrived. She wasn't specially tall, but she was fashionable (at least she thought she was). She had her hair coiffed up. She had gelled it straight up like a fan. It stood at least 3 inches above her head. I can appreciate that the opera is a social event where some go to be seen. But please! I think the issue here is not specifically the noise but how people don't take the time to consider the impact of their actions on those around them. It is as if some people live in a bubble. This stretches beyond the concert hall. |
94 posts ago I suggested this topic would be a can of worms. I wish I were this good at predicting the stock market. I am no music historian. I hope someone who is better informed will offer some insight about the evolution of concert etiquette. My understanding is that well into the classical era, music and musical performance was commissioned and supported by either the ruling class or the church. The attitude was apparently one of "he who pays the piper calls the tune." I get the feeling that the nobility many times viewed court musicians and composers as their servants. That being the case, maybe talking or something less than complete silence and focus on the music was just as natural is if I get up from a listening session to answer the phone. I bought the music, I bought the stereo, its my house, Ill do what I want and do not need to answer to anyone if I want to hit pause. Perhaps those of you who have seen Copying Beethoven recall the scene where LvB let it be known that no one was to talk during his performance of one of his sonatas. The point here is that with the rise of the middle class and a diminished influence of a small elite group, ownership moved to a much broader group of patrons. At that time the newly emerging middle class began to take a very serious interest in music. They bought copies of published works, performed them in their own homes, and began to attend performances in public forums. I suspect that current expectations for concert etiquette had their root in this period. Ownership of the music was now more broadly distributed between paying customers, patrons, composers, professional performers, and to varying degrees, democratically elected governments. Apparently a common set of expectations respecting the wants and needs of this relatively broad demographic arose during this period. Comparison with a time share condominium comes to mind. Best to think of the others who have a share in the ownership. Where are we now? It is customary in program guides to list patrons of the symphony in groups according to the level of their contributions, which shows clearly that a very small select group of corporations and individuals currently pay the piper in America. The middle class, at least in America, has for the most part moved on. They are no longer a significant part of the ownership demographic. I think most of us would like to see a return to the past, where patronage was more broadly distributed. Im just not sure that hope is realistic. The middle class is absolutely bombarded with entertainment opportunities. I recall an instance several years ago where a woman in her 30s sat next to me at a concert. Very nicely dressed, and I thought, nice to see some younger people coming. About 5 minutes into the first piece, she took out a game boy type device and entertained herself with that until intermission, after which she did not return. Orchestras are struggling trying to figure out how to attract and assimilate this demographic. Meanwhile, many of the current piper payers are becoming deeply disturbed by the erosion in paradigms of etiquette that have stood for years. They, like the OP, have become increasingly frustrated, having endured many episodes of disruptive behavior. Orchestras will do well to be sensitive to the needs of this group, otherwise, they too will move on and our orchestras will cease to exist. |