You, sir, have opened a can of worms. In Indianapolis, we have over the last few years had a steady increase in people clapping at the end of each movement. If that is not bad enough, we had people applauding twice during a minuet and trio, prompted by the musicians pausing ever so briefly between the minuet and the trio, and then again between the trio and repeat of the minuet.
We all want to see more people who are not die hard classical fans attend concerts, but please people. There is such a thing as concert etiquette. If you dont know what is going on, just be quiet.
Then there was the fellow that apparently brought his lunch in a paper bag, and made quite a racket getting into his bag of chips.
Embarrassing, distressing, frustrating. Some people can find a way to ruin anything. |
Rdavwhitaker, I've seen the same thing. Standing O's for pedestrian performances week after week. CEO's who fire music directors who resist programing Beethoven every week in hopes of drawing in huge numbers of newbies so they can clap after every measure. I cancelled my subscription to the ISO. I've got a half a dozen performances of the War horses by the best orchestras in the world. I can get my Beethoven at home. It is most certainly not a good thing when people like me decide to go elsewhere for music. |
Maybe I just want to hear the music. I expect the Dawg pound or the black hole to be an anything goes venue. What is OK in a football stadium isn't necessarily OK elsewhere. Most places have expectations with respect to appropriate behavior. There are things you just don't do in church. There are things you don't do in a concert hall. I don't think think that is arrogance, I think it is common sense. Alas, common sense is not always so common. |
People go to performances of classical music for a variety of reasons. Many of us are very serious about music and Devilboy's comment regarding the emotional investment is right on target. We are fully absorbed by the music on an emotional and intellectual level. People making unnecessary noise at a concert is pretty much like people making a racket in a library where people are trying to read or study. It just simply distracts and detracts from the experience, and at its extreme, a single offender can ruin the experience for hundreds of people. My wife and I have decided not to attend on nights when one of us had a cold, for fear that we could not properly control our coughing. For the record, my wife does not wear perfume, for those who might have been wondering about that. We are middle age, and have been attending concerts since our youth. My attitude and expectations about appropriate concert etiquette have not fundamentally changed since I was in my twenties. My wife and I are not snobs. We just love the music.
I remember the overwhelming emotions associated with my first concert experiences of The Swan of Tuonela, Janacek's Sinfonietta, and the Rite of Spring. The right of Spring was ruined by a CEO who decided it would be good to stage a bunch of people hooting and hollering with cat calls in an effort to emulate the first performance in Paris. I was not amused or entertained. The experience was ruined, and I can't get that one back.
For other people, attending a symphony concert is just a diversion, perhaps a guy who is trying to find something different to do for an evening with his overly perfumed wife. Its just something to do. That is great, and I certainly welcome those folks. Please, just don't ruin it for others. |
Rcprince. You are correct, we all want to see expansion of audience, and I don't think anyone seriously wants them run out of the hall, electrocuted, or doused with a bucket of paint. Sneezing and coughing, while annoying, is actually decreasing now that smoking is becoming less common.
In Indianapolis there is an announcement to turn of cell phones, pagers, watch alarms etc, before the concerts. In contrast, while there is considerable hand wringing over the applause problem, I have yet to hear or see any guidance given on applause, apart from one episode several years ago where the conductor made it very clear there should be no applause during Mozart's Requiem. I thought about applauding his announcement, but thought better of it. You are correct in suggesting that proper etiquite needs to be explained. People are not going to figure this out by themselves.
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Chadnliz, If you had a noisy tube, horrendous RFI, or a worn stylus and you came here for advice, would you expect to hear "grow up guys?" I know this is hard for some to understand, but there are people here who are dead serious about music. They are not juvenile because they take exception to people who ruin their concert experience through rude and boorish behavior. |
Interesting comments from conductor Mark Wigglesworth on audience noise.
http://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/shaping-the-invisible/disengagement-rings |
94 posts ago I suggested this topic would be a can of worms. I wish I were this good at predicting the stock market.
I am no music historian. I hope someone who is better informed will offer some insight about the evolution of concert etiquette. My understanding is that well into the classical era, music and musical performance was commissioned and supported by either the ruling class or the church. The attitude was apparently one of "he who pays the piper calls the tune." I get the feeling that the nobility many times viewed court musicians and composers as their servants. That being the case, maybe talking or something less than complete silence and focus on the music was just as natural is if I get up from a listening session to answer the phone. I bought the music, I bought the stereo, its my house, Ill do what I want and do not need to answer to anyone if I want to hit pause.
Perhaps those of you who have seen Copying Beethoven recall the scene where LvB let it be known that no one was to talk during his performance of one of his sonatas. The point here is that with the rise of the middle class and a diminished influence of a small elite group, ownership moved to a much broader group of patrons. At that time the newly emerging middle class began to take a very serious interest in music. They bought copies of published works, performed them in their own homes, and began to attend performances in public forums. I suspect that current expectations for concert etiquette had their root in this period. Ownership of the music was now more broadly distributed between paying customers, patrons, composers, professional performers, and to varying degrees, democratically elected governments. Apparently a common set of expectations respecting the wants and needs of this relatively broad demographic arose during this period. Comparison with a time share condominium comes to mind. Best to think of the others who have a share in the ownership.
Where are we now? It is customary in program guides to list patrons of the symphony in groups according to the level of their contributions, which shows clearly that a very small select group of corporations and individuals currently pay the piper in America. The middle class, at least in America, has for the most part moved on. They are no longer a significant part of the ownership demographic. I think most of us would like to see a return to the past, where patronage was more broadly distributed. Im just not sure that hope is realistic. The middle class is absolutely bombarded with entertainment opportunities. I recall an instance several years ago where a woman in her 30s sat next to me at a concert. Very nicely dressed, and I thought, nice to see some younger people coming. About 5 minutes into the first piece, she took out a game boy type device and entertained herself with that until intermission, after which she did not return. Orchestras are struggling trying to figure out how to attract and assimilate this demographic. Meanwhile, many of the current piper payers are becoming deeply disturbed by the erosion in paradigms of etiquette that have stood for years. They, like the OP, have become increasingly frustrated, having endured many episodes of disruptive behavior. Orchestras will do well to be sensitive to the needs of this group, otherwise, they too will move on and our orchestras will cease to exist. |
Learsfool, I sat in the front row for years. I had exactly this discussion with an orchestra member that I sat 6 feet away from for about 5 years (who I would never have gotten to know from the dress circle). My thoughts-- The Indianapolis Circle theater has bad acoustics. If you sit more than about 8 rows back, it sounds about like an early 50's Toscanini recording (alas, without Toscanini). I have so many treasured memories. Ehnes' opening of the Dvorak concerto melted my heart. Lynn Harrell and Philip Palermo playing the lovely Dvorak concerto duet, Hillary Hahn/Bach, a Russian guest conductor instructing the Russian principal cellist, "non troppo," which I found quite amusing, watching how hard the orchestra works during a Beethoven symphony-- I could go on, but you get the idea. Sitting further back in that hall one looses so much of the total experience. I will admit that in halls where I know the acoustics to be better, I will sit further back, but not too far back. Most of us have reasonably resolving systems and extensive libraries. We can stay home an get a plausible dress circle sound. When I go to a live performance, I want things I can only get close to the front. Schubert's point is also good. Sitting near the front takes much of the audience out of the picture until the piece is over. |
