Trust exhibitors lol like they really know what they're talking about. They only know how to exhibit perhaps.
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I was embarrassed for the guy. Didn't want to challenge him, since it's his setup. Wasn't even an exotic setup. The "exhibit" was lukewarm and he played the system way too loud to showcase the setup. I did get to enjoy it on other setups. I got the LP US cleaned at the Kirmuss booth by Charless Kirmuss. Kind of lengthy process, if you do the steps in his setup. |
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No, he may be confusing it with surface noise. Early mono pressings were played with 1mil conical stylus while with stereo the stylus used were 0,7mil and played monos fine. You can destroy grooves as @intactaudio said. A small exception is dirty 78's, where groove width is much greater and a modern stylus will reach the bottom of the groove and not only. Probably he was refering to that. |
Dave is entirely correct. There is one instance that might damage a stereo cartridge and that is trying to play 78s with it. The groove size is much larger and a modern cartridge will bottom out in the groove encountering more friction than usual as the point digs into the shellac. I do not bother with mono cartridges. A stereo cartridge will play mono records just fine. Imaging is not important as there is no image. Mono records actually sound best off axis. |
@intactaudio +1 |
No...in fact a mono record can sound quite good played with a stereo cartridge. Especially if you engage the mono switch on preamp if equipped. You can buy an in line mono/stereo switch. I opted to go the mono cartridge route, Grado, as I have a removable headshell for easy cartridge swaps. Keep in mind though, mono cartridges/stylus should only be used on older true mono records....the later "dubbed" mono records can be played with stereo cartridges as the grooves were cut in the same manner as their counterpart stereo versions. The grooves on the older mono records were cut differently with wider grooves. |
The big difference between a mono cartridge and a stereo cartridge comes down to noise pickup. A true mono cartridge has the coils oriented to only pickup info in the lateral direction whereas a stereo cartridge is oriented with the coils at 45° to pick up info in both the lateral and vertical direction. If converted to mono at the cartridge, the phasing of the stereo coils is such that the lateral info sums and the vertical info is nulled. this null only becomes perfect if the info in the vertical direction is identical in both channels which never happens in the real world. If the summation to mono is done by a mono switch this noise cancellation is less. The net result of this is since a mono record has only noise and zero musical content in the vertical direction, a true mono cartridge can be much quieter in the groove than a summed stereo cartridge. |
at the end of the day a cartridge is a compliant lever with a needle and either one or two electro-magnetic coils at the other end (or magnet moving inside a coil). Mono records only have a single direction of displacement. Stereo have two. But either way its a compliant diamond sliding through wiggles. A stereo needle will simply pick up the exact same movement on both channels. I do not see how this will damage anything. I admit i've never looked closely at how they align the squiggles So i find this assertion very unlikely |
Sadly, it was the owner of the retail establishment who gave me the no-go request. One exhibitor confirmed my thoughts as to why some wont. If he puts on a request that isn’t popular, he risks driving out the traffic in the room. I get it, so I make them during lulls in room traffic, or I their LP selection is similar to what I’d like to hear. I’ve gone to shows over the last 3 decades and that one was a first. I also got the vibe the dude really didn’t want to take request and just spit out the goofy excuse in hopes I wasn’t informed. Sigh.
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It comes down to whether the playback cartridge has vertical compliance or not. In the pre-stereo days of mono cartridges had drastically lower compliance in the vertical direction than in the lateral direction since that was the only required direction of movement. When Stereo was introduced the mono information was kept lateral and the stereo information was encoded in the vertical direction and the coils rotated to 45° so each channel could read both. This means that you still get the common lateral component to each channel but different vertical components. The compliance is what allows the diamond to move freely in all directions. When you playback a record with vertical information with a cartridge with no vertical compliance, suddenly a battle ensues between a diamond backed by the effective mass of the tonearm and the part of the groove trying to move the diamond in the vertical plane. Simply put.... something has gotta give. The Denon 102 is an interesting cartridge since it is one of the first mono cartridges with vertical compliance in line with the horizontal. It essentially has lateral mono coils and a stereo suspension. This was needed so broadcast playback could go back and forth between stereo and mono cuts without changing cartridges.
dave |
I use a GE VRII Golden Treasure cart for mono records. Absolutely sublime and whisper quiet. I use only 1 channel (blue and white) and use the mono button on my preamp. It results in proper loading, proper phase. I get sick of people saying there is no vertical compliance; that’s a lie, misinformation. There is vertical compliance to keep the tip in the groove and handle record warps. Just higher compliance laterally. No vertical compliance means the stylus bounces in the groove from record warps.
Stereo carts play mono microgroove records just fine. Very noisy, but they play fine.
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yes... and interestingly enough the choice of the day was to use a rectangular cantilever cross section with a high aspect ratio to put all of the rigidity in the lateral direction. The flex of the cantilever in the vertical direction is what dictates the compliance and as you mention, it is a much lower value than the lateral number. dave |
intact audio makes a reasonable point. I doubt most modern cart's have limited vertical compliance tho. I think i would be more concerned with the reverse, since in the old days the grooves were cut entirely laterally (well, there was that 45 degrees but the two were out of phase....) so the reverse is more, IMO, likely- except that about 0.01% of us have mono cartridges.
Yes, a buddy of mine does. He also has multiple arms on one table. Wonderfully insane. |
I don't know about everyone else. I have thousands of records and maybe 30 mono ones mostly old Jazz. Spending Thousands of dollars to get a mono cartridge as good as the stereo one for 30 records seem a bit odd almost as bad as buying a reel to reel to play the 30 or so prerecorded tapes that exist. |
If your Mono albums were pressed after 1968 they were pressed on a stereo lathe. Recording studios in the USA eliminated the mono lathe. The way mono recordings are made from 1969 and on is they use a 2 track stereo tape recorder w/the mono tape. On occasion these records may be prone to trouble if not folded to mono properly. If it sounds phasey or loses the top end it needs to be played in stereo even if its mono. The groove on the stereo lathe is different than the mono lathe groove. If you have current mono albums you should be fine w/a stereo cart. It’s compatible w/the record grooves. Steve Hoffman explained this. |
