Is there are anyone out there who has compared the Esoteric DV-50 to a number of dedicated red book only players (or other universal's) and found one that is SIGNIFICANTLY better?
I stress significantly because in my humble opinion the redbook playback (if comparison unit is just a cd cd player only )must be significantly better to justify losing DVD-A, SACD and DVD-Video capability.
I keep hearing there are better one box solutions and being a die hard 2 channel fan I would sell my DV-50 if I found a player in the same price range that sounds significantly better. But every time I do an AB comparision to other well respected units the DV-50 has slayed each and every one.
So far, it has eaten the lunch of the Classe CDP-10, Ayre CX-7, Linn Ikemi, Cairn Fog Vers. 2, Cary 306/300, Arcam DV 27A and CD 33T, Myryad CD 600, etc. It even betters a Sony SCD 777ES/MF Tri-Vista 21 transport/dac combo that I previously owned. I'm only comparing the DV-50 to single box cd or universal players, but I just wanted to mention the Sony/MF combo. I'm sure there are some dac/transport combo's that will handily beat the DV 50.
Some may say that the DV 50 should beat all the above because the of price point ($5,500 vs. average price of $3,000 for the above players). But I disagree since conventional wisdom says that stand alone players (especially with the pedigree of those mentioned above) should produce better redbook than a universal player trying to be a jack of all trades. Only the DV 27A does video plus audio. By the way, I was very impressed with the 27A as just a cd player. Of all the above I would say the Ayre was the best.
Next on my list is the Electrocompaniet EMC 1UP and the Resolution Audio Opus 21. However, I must tell you I am really impressed with the DV 50 and all the great reviews are absolutely true. I've noticed that many people who are using it or comparing to other players are using the RCA analog outs instead of the balanced outs. There is a significant improvement in sound if you use the balanced outs and I'm only interested in hearing comments from people who have compared it against other players using the balanced outs on the DV-50.
My system components are as follows:
B&W N803's speakers & HTM-1 center Cary Cinema 5 (5 x 200) amp Anthem D1 Statement pre/pro Esoteric DV 50 Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun speaker wire Nirvana SX balanced interconnects from DV-50 to Anthem Acoustic Zen Matrix reference II interconnects from D1 to Cary No after market power cords or isolation equipment
My system sounds great! Those who comment please make sure to specify what specific improvements you heard over the DV 50 and what cdp were you comparing it against.
C'mon, audio girl, you are rehashing issues that have been resolved long ago. The "sounds like a rat shack system" comment was made a while ago by a clearly over exuberant 711, who has long since stated he was simply excited about his player and spoke rashly. I think it is obvious in all of this that 711 is only trying to find the best player for him, and I'm certain that when he finds one better than the apl, the cycle will start over.
I don't think audio girl you have offended anyone, but you just got in the discussion WAY late and brought up settled issues as if you were the first to discover them.
That being said, I WOULD love to hear 711's thoughts.
Jason If I have offended anyone, I tell it...and all that other nonsense that people like to say that doesn't have much meaning.
"You know what pisses me off? When people who ask what time it is constantly tap on their wrist while asking. I know where my damn watch is. I don't point to my crotch when asking where the restrooms are.
OK time to lighten up! Let Talk Music First! I want everyones vote for the Best CDs at this and previous shootouts! Artist, Album, Label catalog number and cut(s) where appropriate. And yes it can be your disc.
Well 711 Smilin, we are waiting for your response to the shoot-out at Mr. Walsh's! Bet it was a rather humbling experience, especially considering that Mr. Walsh and Tgun5 thought that Tguns SLIGHTLY MODDED Esoteric DV-50 sounded better than your FULLY MODDED APL Denon DVD-3910! And there was NO clear overall winner! And this was on a multi-thousand dollar AUDIOPHILE SYSTEM as you are fond of telling AVGURU. I figured by the way that you were always bragging on Alex and his APL Denon DVD-3910, and insulting and cutting down other peoples systems and players, that your APL Denon would absolutely walk all over and destroy these other players!Apparently that did not happen at all! For example you said that AVGURU's system sounded like Radio Shack, and his former DV-50 sounded like a toy, etc. He also called him a "HORSES ASS". Those kinds of remarks are totally uncalled for! I don't blame AVGURU for leaving this thread. Your arrogance over your APL Denon, your system, and yourself is, [or was], obnoxious. This thread should have been 711's, and should have been titled:"APL MODDED DENON DVD-3910:Any cdp's Significantly better"!! And Alex of APL, whats your response over the shoot-out? Just curious. If I have offended anyone..too bad..I tell it like I see it!
I haven't visited here in a long time but I must say, I've been living with my APL SS modified DV50 since last November. I couldn't be anymore satisfied than I am at the moment. This was the first Esoteric unit Alex had a chance to view under the hood and work his magic on. The results are stunning,, the only similiarity with the stock version is the faceplate and cover. Sonically this unit is up their with the very best offered in digital IMHO. Wonderfully transparent,,, velvety image float, high frequency's have lost their digital "edge", mids are smooth and liquid, and bottom end has a new found slam and punch not heard in the dv50 stock version. The APL modified DV50 has "soul" and throws a holigraphic soundscape. The APL "new and improved" seems to be the "poor man's" EmmLabs machine at a fraction of the $$, for which I am completely floored. I'm using a SS/Tube integrated for the last word in "tube magic" and its a home run! A ten on sonic delivery, a 12 on the value-performance ratio scale!
I wasn't accusing anyone and apologize if it sounded that way. It might have been put in another CD case accidentally. I looked around, but you never know, it might turn up. Brian
By the way, my Nils Lofgren CD seems to be missing :-( Please look through your CD cases and players just in case. I offer a reward for its return. Brian
Gee, Tom, did I say that? I was sitting way off to the side, although I found the DV-50 a bit more musical and involving than the APL although the Modwright did very well in these areas, while the APL and DV-50 had more detail and tighter bass. I'll look at my scorecard and the others to see if the numbers reflect that. Brian
My specific ratings were DV50 (48) Modright (47) APL (47). Since my sister doesn't post, her preference was the APL, DV50, and Modright in that order. I don't know her exact scores, but they were as close as all the others. FYI, my sister has been involved in music for 35 years and currently sings with The Apollo Chorus of Chicago. She has great ears and a nice system of her own.
I would disagree with Eric on just one main issue. I thought the DV-50 clearly won the battle of detail retrieval. The only other area that I scored it clearly ahead was in bass definition. As far as the "damped" observation, I thought the DV-50 was playing at a slightly lower volume during its review which may account for this. Other than those thoughts, I have absolutely no complaints about the shootout, outcome, or any of the players.
Brian didn't say much in his first post, but I'm pretty sure I heard him say as he walked into his kitchen "call me crazy, but I thought the DV-50 was the best one." Since I don't know that he kept his scorecard, he'll have to elaborate.
we have been waiting for quite a while for this shootout, and no one has so far come clean with the details. I am sure thee is a signature to each one which pople can relate to and make decisions possibly as to which one for them is the best.
I get the feeling everyone got on too well, and politeness has been the order of the day. I am sure 711 smiling will soon make his voice heard loud and clear.
Fair question. Here is how I scored the three: Esoteric DV-50 (46); APL 3910 (47); Modwright 9000ES (48) out a "perfect" score of 55. We used a subjective scale of one being worst, and a five being the best, across 11 categories. If I could imagine better or was just a little bit unsatisfied, I didn't score a five. And no, I don't pretend that all of us were in agreement on the scoring categories or exactly what each category referred to.
Before I elaborate, let me say that this was fun even if exhausting. I heard some top-notch CDs, a couple of which I will obtain in future, through some really great equipment. Three players are plenty to compare in a day. I don't see how you could fairly compare more, as your brain needs a break after a while. We did listen to some SACD tracks as well, but none of them especially rocked my world.
To those that say you have to listen to each component in your own system, I have to ask: Do you ignore all reviews? If not, why not? The reviewer's system will never be an exact duplicate of yours and even if it was, your room will be different. Second question: How, if you are not a reviewer, are you going to get three or four or six top-notch universal players into your system for a lengthy test period? Modders don't loan out their equipment to the world at large. I suppose you could buy two at at time, A/B them and then unload one at a loss here on Audigon.
I appreciate Brian's making this audition, or shoot-out, possible. It was worthwhile, even if not as rigorously controlled as some might argue it should have been. And it was just a nice social event after the scorecards were completed. So don't dismiss the idea of a couple of audiophiles getting together to compare gear. Try it. You might find you like it. It might not change your mind, but it is worthwhile.
After a short warm-up period, we picked six tracks and played about two to three minutes, per track, on each player after first listening to each track. That is, cuts 1-6 were played back-to-back on one unit; then the same tracks were played in the same order on the second unit; then on the third unit. At the end, we took a couple of selections and went directly back and forth between players. Brian's sound meter needed batteries so the volume equalization was done by ear and group consensus, and yes I am sure we were a little off.
What each player did right:
The APL Denon 3910 had the clear edge on detail retrieval, bass, and depth of soundstage. On an early cut, from Brian's Nils Lofgren CD, it was a real treat. Steve made no bones about the fact that *bass* is really important to him. I don't see Steve trading his player for one of the other two. I thought, however, the APL 3910 was just a notch below the Modwright 9000ES on vocals - a little dry. And there was something slightly fatiguing to my ears towards the high end in the APL unit. Sorry I can't pin it down better than that, but by a slight margin I preferred the Modwright unit, even though it clearly wasn't the "best" in each category.
The Modwright scored high on overall "musicality" and didn't fall too far in any other category. It's bass could be better, tighter, but it's satisfying. The Modwright wasn't offensive in any category, had a nice soundstage, good midrange, treble, vocals. One other person thought the Modwright was a tad warm. I liked the unit on female voices. I thought there was just a little less detail than on APL 3910, but not much. Very enjoyable, very easy to listen to.
The interesting player, to me, was the Esoteric DV-50. It was neutral, as compared to the other two players, in that it didn't have big plusses or minuses that were easy to identify. It was a solid performer but left me with the sense that it was just a bit damped sounding as compared to the other two units. By that I mean it sounded just a little less "in the room" and vibrant. Tom thought the unit sounded more exciting in his home system, so I don't think I am off in this regard. The Esoteric unit had good rhythm and pace, good bass, and was right behind the other units in the other categories. Bon commented that, compared to stock DV-50 units, Tom's modified unit had a large soundstage that didn't collapse. I would agree.
---
In the weeks leading up to this listening session, there was an incredible amount of vitriol expressed in this thread. That's unfortunate. I had never met Bon, Steve, or Tom and his sister before yesterday. They are all into music and very gracious. No one seized control of the event or demanded that everyone vote a certain way. Brian lent some discipline to the exercise, but that's about it. Steve ruffled some feathers coming into this. But after meeting him in person, I don't have any problem with him. I think he's a little like the Rodney Dangerfield of audio in that he is very vocal, and I can see how he could set some up-tight audiophiles on edge. But his APL 3910 is really good and I don't believe that he is into this for anything other than his own enjoyment in the privacy of his home. Steve really likes music and it's not more complicated than that. And the rest of us of enjoyed the music as well!
--- That's how I scored it, and why I scored it the way I did. Brian has laid out the equipment that was used; on a different day, with different cords/interconnects/speakers/amps -- sure, everything would have sounded a little different.
Thanks again to Brian, who donated his time and made his excellent system available. And thank you Steve, Bon, and Tom for making the effort and sharing your excellent gear for an afternoon.
IÂ’d like to thank Brian again for hosting this event. I think everyone will agree on at least one thing - we had a lot of fun doing this. From a personal perspective, I accomplished the two things I had hoped forÂ…1) make new friends, 2) make a good showing with the modified DV-50.
This event solidifies what this hobby is all about. I have a new “to die for” CD list. Also got to listen to two pieces on my “must hear” list, the Blowtorch preamp and Soundlabs. I came away impressed by their strengths although it took awhile to adjust to a different type of presentation than at home…..or was it the wine working? Just kidding Brian, you’ve got a great setup. The organ/choir piece was just incredible!
As far as the shootout, I’m taking the same stance as you, Brian. It is not a copout simply because it is the truth. These players were all real close in overall performance. I don’t think anyone expected this going in. Our scorecards covererd most of the critical aspects of each players performance from pace & timing to depth, balance, inner detail, vocal presence, etc, etc.. I believe we voted on a total of 10 categories, ranking each from 1-5. My scorecard had the players separated by just one point each after totaling the columns. In the end, the owners of each player, including myself, thought that their player held the edge in the competition. If I’m not mistaken, the other three present chose one of each of the three players as their favorite. It can’t get any closer than that. And no, my sister didn’t choose mine. :-( You may think “of course you are going to pick your own player” . I don’t think this shootout was that simple. It was so close that in the end, it came down to each player’s unique sonic signature. As an owner, this is one of the reasons you bought or kept the player to begin with. As a bystander, you preferred one presentation or another. There just was not a clear winner in all of those categories that you usually use to judge equipment.
Specifically about the DV-50…... I know there is agreement by all that the stock Esoteric will not compete against these modified players. Both the Denon and Sony are at a level that is easy to call “reference”. I want to SINCERELY thank all of the modifiers for their efforts in taking this hobby to the next level.
The good news for Esoteric ownersÂ…..The DV-50 has a lot of growth potential! Mine is competing with the best with only $795 in total modifications. It has both the Superclock 3 and power supply modifications done. The great thing is that there is many more mods that can be done if you want to take it to potentially a higher level. IÂ’m contemplating doing this.
As far as the modifications, you can email me if you want specifics. As far as the modifier, it is Doug Jesse at Reference Audio Mods in Warren Michigan. We all know that the parts choice and use has everything to do with the sound. Doug has done an outstanding job in choosing the right components for the Esoteric.
Like I said earlier, my hats off to these guys who are putting a lot of effort into advancing the hobby. You donÂ’t have to sell your CD player to move up in performance. And this includes far less expensive players. I know there are many that have that hesitancy about upgrades. I had the same reservations, but will now highly recommend them.
I think that this shoot-out at Brians just goes to show that there will NEVER, EVER be a "best sounding" audio component in any category! And if you think that your certain component is the "BEST", or the "TOP-OF-THE HEAP", DREAM ON!!! It may be to you personally, but when it comes to others opinions, you may as well forget it! There are simply too many different system synergys, personal tastes, and preferences out there for there to ever be a conscensus on any one component, in any given category, sounding BEST, no matter how fancy, expensive, or modified that the component is. I see and totally agree now, more than ever, that a person MUST audition any given component that they are interested in there OWN system, and in there OWN room, and using their OWN personal taste to decide how good the component sounds. Asking opinions about which component is good for a particular system, or sounds "best of all" on a forum such as this one is great, but in the end YOU must decide which components sound best to YOU, and in YOUR system, and suit YOUR particular PERSONAL tastes. One mans HOLY GRAIL or BEST SOUNDING will always be someone elses "sounds pretty good", or "it does sound great, but I've heard better", etc.,etc! And, on top of all that, even if another person has owned all the components you are interested in, and in the same combinations, odds are that their listening room, sonic perceptions, and personal preferences are much different than yours! Sorry all you audio enthusiasts and audiophiles out there, but I am be totally truthful and you all know it.
Well, the gang just left. Jayctoy, 711smilin, Tgun5 and a couple others (Tgun5's sister and Eric, another local enthusiast) showed up and we listened to Jayctoy's Modwright Sony 9000es, 711smilin's APL Denon 3910, and Tgun5's modded DV50 with the Superclock3.
The system consisted of each player using a TG Audio SLVR power cord, TG Audio HSR High Purity single ended interconnects, CTC Blowtorch preamp, Purist Colossus balanced ICs to Parasound JC-1 monoblocks, TG Audio HSR speaker cables, and Sound Lab Ultimate-1 speakers. Line conditioners/filters used were TG Audio BybeeSucker and Creative Cable Concepts Blue Lightning plugged into Acme Audio cryo'd silver plated AC outlets. Room treatment consists of Sound Lab Sallies and ASC Tube Traps behind the speakers and a tapestry on the wall behind the speakers. Before the shootout we listened a bit through my digital front end, which was removed from the system to accommodate the other players.
The outcome? My answer might sound like a cop out, but I don't think there was a clear consensus. Some of us had similar comments but different preferences. If there was one thing we agreed upon it was that before anyone considers changing from one of these players to another, they might think twice, because they all have their strengths and are all very good. How one works in your system depends on the rest of the gear.
Hats off to all of the friendly folks who came and made for a very fun day for everyone. Thanks to Tom and Steve who both brought excellent wines which were consumed in moderation and enjoyed by all. Lots of laughs and good listening, both serious and casual. We filled out score cards to rank each, but the results were very close.
Perhaps there will be more shootouts, and I look forward to attending and, if people would like, hosting more in the future. What a great way to spend an afternoon, evening, or both with warm new and old acquaintances with a shared passion for music and fine sound in the home.
TGUN5, you may be right. I have reread the paragraph in question in the soundstage review of X-01. Now I am totally confused. I suspect the filter discussion was lifted almost bodily from the Esoteric site, as it sounds somewhat stilted. I will call Esoteric on Monday or Tuesday and will ask them directly which filter technology is supplied with X-01.
I suggest a Niles switchbox to which you can hook up many components. That way you can do a blind test and switch between them without most people knowing what is switched in at the moment. If the switchbox detracts from the sound it will detract from all in equal measure.
I am sure that you have previous experience of comparing digital front end equipment but I just wanted to throw in my few cents.
First of, it is very important that you have a Pink Noise CD and SPL meter to EQ levels. If you don't do that you can never get the right idea. Also, I would suggest the method of elimination for the shootout. Start A-B-ing two machines and vote on which you like better. Then add the next one to compare against your first preference. It would be best if you decide on one PCM and one SACD track for the initial A-B test. After you decide on the two best machines you can go into variety of other recordings in order to determine the winner.
Finally, the above suggested "blind" test is a very good idea. There is aways a way to do that.
Any thoughts to not letting the listeners know which player they are listening to? This would certainly make the results infinitely less biased. A person's preconceived notions about the performance of each player is going to greatly color their perceptions of that player. This was clearly demonstrated with my wife.
She loved Diet Pepsi and swore that she absolutlely hated the taste of Diet Coke. One day I bought a Diet Pespi and a Diet Coke and had her taste both blindly to see which she perferred. She found the 2 drinks to be barely distinguishable form one and other. The drink that she picked as tasting slightly better was the Diet Coke!
the esoteric dv-50 is excellent but there's certainly better still. and many audio enthusiasts just aren't satisfied unless they get what they think is the very best.
"Saxman2", how close is Cedar Falls to Cedar Rapids? I will be in CR sometime during March. Don't know what week yet. I would love to listen to the Meitner.
Aplhifi, Thanks for the clarification. I was aware of the possibility to install two Superclocks and opted to hear the unit with one modification at a time. I stand by my observation that the single clock upgrade makes a pretty nice improvement. Considering the cost of $300 installed, I've bought power cords at three times the price that have made only 1/2 the improvement of this change. The second upgrade that I had done to this machine involves power supply upgrades. Being a "modder", you already know what was involved here. That improvement was dramatically better than the clock change, the clock circuit benefits from it and at $400 it is also a "steal". The second clock may be the next thing I try. The last will be changing the output stage.
I guess the object of this process has to do with the fact that I already own the DV-50. With just $700 invested, this unit has jumped to a dramatic new level. With the second clock and output stage...who knows? I'm fairly confident that itÂ’s already better than the X-01. I've been in the hobby long enough to know that the difference I'm experiencing with these mods just doesn't happen when you change components - regardless of price.
Although I'm interested in hearing it against the new Esoteric, I'm also interested in hearing how it now compares to a fully-modified Denon. If this is the reference we are now shooting for, more modifications may be in order for my DV-50. The additional mods have been quoted at $1000, making a fully-blown DV-50 $4700-$5200 if you buy one used, or $1700 if you own one already.
I realize there are different approaches when it comes to modding these units. The real proof is in the performance, which is why I'm going to Chicago.
In the end, though, it is about having fun, making new friends, and listening to music. If we can advance the hobby through different ideas and methods, thatÂ’s fine too.
Guidocorona, The report you point to does say the FIR circuit is the default in the X-01 and UX-1. They are talking about the RDOT filter not being needed in the new units due to the VRDS mechanism. In think I'm reading it right.
TGUN5, according to the X-01 review published in July 2004 on Soundstage, the X-01 has maintained the RDOT filter and has dropped the apparently older FIR technology. See: http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/esoteric_x01.htm
to further carify - the dcc2 only decodes 2 channel dsd, the dac6 decodes 6.
the ONLY differences between the dac6 and the dac6e is that the dac6e has balanced and unbalanced outputs (the dac6 only has 1 set of balanced outputs) and the dac6 was rack-mountable and the dac6e isn't.
Springbok10, it was mentioned earlier that they will bring DAC6e (note the "e"). It is the new $12K updated version of DAC6 and is exactly the same as DCC2 less the built in preamp in the DCC2.
Tgun5, there are two master clocks for the upsampling in DV-50. There is also another master clock circuit that provides six (6) more clocks for the PCM, SACD and Video processors. This totals eight (8) clocks needed for the machine. It is essential to start with upgrading the six (6) clocks that are clocking the above mentioned processing which is the heart of the machine. Then, it is not bad idea to upgrade the Upsampling clocks too. Upgrading just one (1) of the Upsampling clocks will sure bring some incremental improvement, but it will be like a plastic surgery to your face in order to mask your heart failure.
very much doubt it sprinbok 10: the only diff would really be Dcc2's preamp function vs using another sep pre-amp: which can be avoided as DCC2 allows u to bypass the preamp functionality.
Will there be an EMM DCC2/CDSD at the shoot-out? I only read of a DAC6/CDSD going there, but I could've missed it in 706 posts:). Isn't there a big difference in sound?
My understanding was that the Superclock 3 has a greater effect on the FIR filter which upsamples to 352.8khz. There are two other filter settings on the DV-50, RDOT @ 705.60khz and RDOT + FIR operating at 1411.2khz. These are all selected via a switch on the front panel of the DV-50. I have heard improvement on all of the settings, but far less on the RDOT and RDOT + FIR. Before the upgrade, I was using the FIR filter exclusively. If I'm not mistaken, the newer Esoterics UX-1/X-01 use the FIR circuit and have abandoned the other two.
Henryhk, DAC6e and DCC2 are converting to DSD even the PCM from another transport. It is not nesessary to use the EMM transport in order to have DSD converted PCM. What really matters is the re-clocking of the EMM transport which can not be done using non EMM transport and that is where the big diffrence comes from. Both DAC6 and DCC2 are using DSD1700 DACs which are the Burr-Brown top notch DSD DACs. These do not support PCM.
Meitner: A word of caution. I believe AVGURU et al already know this but I have quite a few comments on Meitner gear in audiogon which are somewhat misguided. If you are going to test the gear make absolutely sure you are using the proprietarty optical link btwn the transport and DAC6 or DCC2. Only then do you get the full measure of performance as one of the keys to Meitner gear is that ir upconverts PCM to DSD before analogue conversion. Without the optical link, u don't get this and end up regular PCM to analogue conversion.
Arnold_h, the S version of the DV-50 has some video upgrades. The audio part of the S and non-S is exactly the same. See you email for explanaton why there are so many DV-50 for sale. It is testimonial from former DV-50 owner.
When it comes to the DV-50, as I mentioned before, it is Pioneer DV-47Ai in Teac box. The Teac has their own power supply, Upsampling processor, DACs and Analog stage which of course makes it much better performer than the Pioneer DV-47Ai.
The DV-50 needs master clock circuit capable of providing eight (8) different frequiencies. Installation of Super Clock I, II or III will somewhat help six (6) of these, but not the other two (2) which are essential for CD playback using the Upsampling modes.
For anyone that can't do the shootout and is willing to traval to Cedar Falls IA. I have the Emm lab set-up through Tenor OTLs. I have been through the cable and powercord thing and feel my system is as good as it is going to get with what I have to work with. 319-266-8325
I was also considering a DV-50s due to all the great reviews and comments about it but one thing kind of puzzles me though. Why are there so many for sale on Audiogon? Are they not as good as they are said to be and people are trading them off or are they JUST that popular? The majority of the ones for sale are the older DV-50 though not the S version so possibly they are upgrading to the newer S version.
Hi Bon, it's great to hear you'll be able to make it! 3pm or so is fine, as we'll be playing around long past then.
I should ask the rest of you who haven't yet confirmed with me that you'll attend to please do so by noon on Friday that you will attend, and I will provide you with directions to my house. Otherwise I think it's fair for me to allow others not previously mentioned to attend, who have asked if there is room. I hope this is acceptable and doesn't sound demanding.
Tbg, Iam a part of the original three, Bon (Jayctoy). The owner of the Sony9000esModwright,I respect that you have doubt in our conclusion,because you were not there.This thread is for someone who are looking for guidance like AVguru said,to have at least information, before they will buy their cdp,obviously you already have one the best player,Exemplar or Denon APL?, I am happy for you,There was no doubt the Sony was way much better than the two Denons, on the system Ive heard them, may be in your system your cdp is better, but I doubt it. If I were you I will fly here in Barrington,IL.The Shootout is fun and enjoyable, its not about competition. This thread has been through a lot,Charles and Steve are both nice, disagreement happen.I would love to see them in a listening room with me, they are both exciting, individual,and emotional.Tbg please contribute in a positive way, I did try to be careful on my opinion, because I know words are very powerful,So far Dolfan is extremely happy with his Sony999esModwright,1Markr just receive his 999Modwright today,I hope he will be happy, I will let you know in two weeks. Brian my schedule is very tight this Saturday,but I will try to come.I will be in your place 3pm,if thats a problem please me know,I willtry to come,I will be late. Tbg I want you to remember this, If my Sony will not perform as it did before, because this is a differrent system, I have no problem with that.I can accept that. I am excited to hear EMM meitner.Thanks
I was always surprised that there was even a consensus among the original three on this thread, and I must admit I doubted the validity of their conclusion. Now, it seems, there is no consensus and some have gone home with their vanity brushed. While I doubt if there will be a consensus in any further shootout, I wish I could join you as the comradely is fun if everyone doesn't take it too seriously.
Springbok, not to worry - anyone who gets out of hand will be asked to leave. This comparison is being done in my home, and despite the mudslinging that has occurred in the past couple of days (which by the way I find distasteful and disrespectful) I anticipate a very civil, enjoyable time will be had by all. It's all about the music, guys! Tom from Ohio just called and is confirmed to be bringing his modded DV50. :-) Brian
If the response to posts avowing different sonic virues to different players from some posters is a fore-taste of the shoot-out, and there's no reason to believe otherwise, after reading the last few posts, I would forget about beer and wine, Brian, but consider instead getting the National Guard to come listen. (with M16s rather than CDPs.) You will need them to keep order. Ufb..................
Respect is something all people deserve. Disagreements happen but I hope none of us feels we have a lock on "the truth". As lazarus said its about the MUSIC and this by its nature MUST be subjective. Feel free to bash any piece of EQUIPMENT you like but refrain from bashing people who's opinions you don't like. I have no affinity for "stuff" only for the joy it brings me. James
Over the last 4 months I have spent considerable time and effort talking to posters, fielding NUMEROUS questions from both observers and posters, arranging listening sessions, demoing a fair amount of equipment on my own, writing reviews and trying to maintain the focus of this thread.
At times I've had to "scold" a few posters for insulting others and I've tried to keep everybody focused on the task at hand. All of my criticism was in the spirit of making this a better thread...nothing more and nothing less. None of it was personal. I always envisoned this thread to be extremely professional, have a "real purpose" and not meander around a myriad of topics like so many other threads on A-gon often do.
I had hoped this nonsene would stop when A-gon suspended this thread for roughly 12 hours a month ago..thinking people would then appreciate the thread and get the message. Apparently it's effect was only temporary.
Unfortunately, there are those on this thread who have resented my efforts, who pout like children when given constructive critcism or when asked to curtail certain activities, who resented my self appointed tag as the "MODERATOR" (which was only done to restore order and not for ego related purposes), who feel they have the right to say whatever they want to say regardless of who it hurts or whether its relevant, etc. Finally, there are a host of people who have their own hidden agenda's and care about nothing other than pushing their ideas, products, etc on others.
As such, it is clear to me that my participation and efforts on this thread are not appreciated and are no longer necessary. I've certainly tired of trying to maintain a certain modicum of professionalism and civility. As such, I bid my farewell and leave this thread to my detractors and naysayers who are now free to take it in whatever direction they see fit.
For all of those people who have posted questions to me on this thread that I have yet to answer or who want to contact me please do so through my A-gon e-mail as I will not be responding to or following this thread anymore.
geez - and people were accusing *ME* of trying to degenerate this thread into a name-calling hatefest. anybody know the story of king lear?
:-)
but seriously - there's no pride at stake here, folks! who cares if somebody doesn't like your player? if you like it, that's all that matters! and how can you expect anybody else to be able to judge what yours sounds like unless there's an extended session? did *you* know the full sound of your player after an hour? two hours? i don't know how much time 711 and avguru spent together playing their players, but i promise you it wasn't enough to get a feel for either person's player. this is also why i feel that the shootout is a bad idea. not only are people making hurried judgements about high-end cd-players, which are devices where subtleties are what makes the difference, but we're getting a bunch of people together who are welling with pride over their purchases and this is just the potential start of MANY feuds to come!
tvad is absolutely right in his assesments, IMHO and i'm glad to see that i'm not the only one who feels that way.
and, to AVGURU and 711 specifically: there is a huge, huge world out there. that you two don't like eachother or eachother's set-ups doesn't mean a damn thing in the scheme of things. remember, this hobby is supposed to be fun and to be about music, not equipment. the equipment is merely a means to an end. and that end is very, very individualistic, which means that your end won't suit everybody. hence, your systems will not suit more than just *one* other person around here.
so, stop and ask yourself: why does it offend you that he insulted your cd-player? he's not killing your dog, burning down your house, stealing candy from your child, embezzling money from your college fund, slapping your mother, or pouring sugar into your gas tank. he's expressing an opinion. and you know how much value his opinion has? as much as you allow it to have. no more, no less.
remember: opinions are like assholes - everybody has one, and they all stink.
now lighten up folks! have your little shootout and have fun doing it, just don't accept the results for any more than they are. keep the atmosphere relaxed and ENJOY THE GODDAMN MUSIC!
although, at this point y'all might want something a bit stronger than beer or wine to relax the mood. ;-)
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