alex
i have already e mailed you regarding purchase of the 3910 with full mods. Will you be able to do it in 240volt, or should I purchase the unit in the uk and send it to you?
I have always added the Musical fidelity X10d buffer which always added an organic warmth to the sound, improved low level detail and improved the three dimentional imaging.(this was in my audiocom modded sony scd 777es) So it is not suprizing that the tube mods are so successful.Indeed I have also used with 100% success every time the Monarchy DIP 24/96, which always added better tonality (microdynamic functionality)hence the more lifelike sound. I have used it between various transports and dacs with the same success. With the use of both the dip and x10D I wonder if these set ups match your single modded unit? Of course I have used better tubes,caps and my own filtered high VA ac input) in the X10D than the stock one.
Putting copper around the transport always improved the warmth and tonality of the sound and I have since discovered that this was done in the Marantz SA1. However, I have always found that full encapsulation or shielding of the unit lead to too much softness and loss of transparency. Nonetheless the same feat could be managed by simply wrapping copper (pure) around the interconecting or power cables. Again the amount of revolutions were consistent in the degree of warth added to the sound. The magic number was usually five turns before the sound stopped changing or became overly soft. Please note that these are not earthed. It is obviously an electromagnetic effect. Ultimately the design circuitry is the essential sound you will have but by judicious use of copper as described above you can TOTALLY change the sound of the unit. If you then decide to use silver coated copper you will extract more detail from the unit more transparency and insight but less warmth. The same also happens if you use 0.14 mm wire as oppossed to .5mm. So when one describes the teac as being 'lean' 'forward' 'musical'etc can be readily and easily changed to the opposite spectrum as described above. All those guys on this forum compare this to that but in reality there are dramatic effects that can be made by simply manipulating the transport surround or indeed the power and interconnect cables(or indeed adding the x10d buffer, which i know you will not like hearing) Ultimately the important factor of the unit (assumming it extracts near maximal detail) is what amount of changes the unit can support whilst inproving before the sound falls apart and you have not quite reached audio nirvana. Now that would be interesting in a unit such as the Teac DV50.
However, as i said the circuitry which extracts the maximum potential from the unit is what matters most and I am sure that you have this in your mods, by simplifying circuitry etc.
I look forward to doing business with you VERY SOON, or I may have to jump over to the cheaper exemplar.
regards Luke |
alex,
I diod have a chat with one of his representatives who state that he is working on UK models, I donot know if he is using a step down transformer. I could get you a denon model from the uk. But more interestingly I was wandering if a 240v transformer of a higher quality could be used to replace the standard. However, if this is a switch mode power supply then this would be very difficult. I am surprised that switchmode supplies are being used, i really did think that they were using more conventional power supplies. I do also know that the famed Meitner is also working from switch mode. My general experience has been that switch modes tend to sound leaner, harmonially less fleshed out but with a faster more pushy sound. Whereas as good old fashion supplies had a warmer analogue sound. Hence the warmer sound from the marantzes who use the copper chasis and the traditional power supply method for the output HDAMs. I will email you my details shortly via your web sight
Luke |
Hi all,
I see no one has replied to any of my suggestions. Is this an exclusive club, or is it that you all have so much moneythat any suggestion of simple diy on your behalf would be considered 'snobbish'.
Furthermore, not wishing in any way to be too argumentative, but I am a little confused by your use of the term musical. Musical to me means foot tapping, correct timing and rhythm. I get the impression some of youare using this word to mean more realistic in terms of palpability and presence of instrumentalists and vocalists. Perhaps our terminology varies on both sides of the pond.
Please check out someof my suggestions, very simple and dramatic, you will be amazed at what you can do for pennies. I do not mean to put down the work of the professionals there is no doubt they are doing excellent work, but you do not need to be a genious to do a few very simple mods yourselves instead of waiting for the money makers to come up with the suggestions.
regards Luke |
Hi All,
Thank you all for your replies, you have made me feel at home. I hope I can provide some further thought provoking ideas in the future. |
TBG,
I agree about your impatience, I also have the same feeling. But do you know that my initial suggestions above are so simple they take minutes to implement, and you could be revelling in the improvemnents within minutes in some cases. The guys that do the mods are very clever but do not have all the ultimate answers or even the simplest. As a General Medical Practitioner in the UK, I can see a patient regulalrly as well as by my colleagues and not notice that they are insidiously developing Hypothyroidism, until it is pointed out by a person who sees them for the first time. You can be an expect, but it does not mean you are tuned in mentally tothe simplest of things, when your mind and training have led you forward into much more complex realms.
What I have tried to imply is that you guys with the Esoteric DV50, who feel they have the detail but not the 'musicality' or tonality' of some of the mods, are already most of the way to wards the ideal. I believe that once you have extracted the maximum amount of information it is a matter of finely tuning the information into the coherent whole. Just read the very cheap and simple tweaks I have mentioned above.
The simplest is adding in the Tube buffer the musical fidelity x10D. For a $100 you have added a tube in the circuit. The tube in the professional mods simply make the digital signal mor linear. Ok with my method the tube is used after the output stage, and this will be a compromise, but for a small outlay you could mimic the circuits used by the professionals and not wait for months!
I am not saying this will beat what the mod experts are doing, and I do appreciate their work, but you can at least have fun, without destroying your equipment which can give you quick answers. None of the modders have as yet put an output stage in the DV50 you could do a similar feat with the add on box and find out of what value a valve will be in the circuit. I bet it will significantly improve the sound in a silmilar manner to the prior valve/ digital mods.
doc Luke |
Guidocoroner,
I am not sure what point you are trying to make by comparing my phrase of timing and rhythm with your phrase of transient response and coherence. I would now like to be argumentative and imply from this premise that you must be either showing off/trying to intimidate me with your terminology (which I hope you understand the meaning of)as you have not confronted my original question regarding what we all mean by the word 'musicality'. I have given you two possible differring descriptions which are really quite self explanatory. As this forun is for people with all sorts of levels of knowledge, why dont you give us your opinion using simple self explanatory descriptive words.
I look forward to your no doubt volatile response.
Doc |
Pscialli
the musical fidelity should sound utterly neutral when set up correctly. It is heavily influenced by the tubes it uses. I do not get any darkness or rolling off of my sound. It is so utterly neutral that the original sound remains mostly intact but with added air, detail (lower noise floor)improved tonality (as warmth)and three dimentionality to the soundstage. I do not know about the latest version, but the original x10 going for $80 on e bay, had 9922 tubes if you substitute these for ECC85 you will get a much more neutral sound. Tube rolling is simple cheap and fun. I also think contrary to belief that the more expensive the unit the more effective the x10D (in modified form). If you want to take it one step further you can buy a high quality transformer to step down to the 12v ac input instead of the cheap one provided by mf. Again, cheap easy to do and fun as long as you have some knowledge in electronics as the mains voltages can be lethal.
Another simple tweak is to make your own power cord. Again quite remarkable changes are possible, for peanuts.If anyone is interested I can post this revelationary DIY cable, far superior to the TNT site ones. This will make a mockery of those multi thousand pound cables you can buy.
I feel these bits of advice are applicable on this site as we are talking about modding. These mods are really no different to the ones you are buying from the professionals, some as good as their modifications and some not quite as good. I am only trying to open your eyes to what is possible on your own with minimum effort. We all know the matrix movie the final part of the first episode when suddenly 'the one' was able to see clearly how the world was made up from its digital components. Well looking at the internals of a hifi unit can be just that, but infact all tyhosse resistors and capacitors form simmple functions and can with patience and education be unravelled. I have never had an electronic tuition, but I did study physics as a student. If you look at my other suggestions in the original post, you will see I have added more black art ideas, that do work, believe me they really do. i can afford the $5000, but it seems so much more fun to try and out do the professionals (if you can) with simple cheap tweaks which can before your very eyes finely tuune an already good system to an evcen better one.
doc(luke) |
Guido,
thank you for your understanding reply.
I disagree entirely with your comment that hifi systems cannot change the timing and rhythmic flow of a piece of music. Let me be clear with you. Timing and rhythm is utilised by me with their most commonly envisaged meanings. I use them to describe the potential a listener will have to tap their feet to a tune. This is most likely to occur when there is cohesion and coherence between the musicians being displayed by the system.
Foir example the timing of the bass would be perceived as driving the tune along. In this way you get a clearer understanding of what the musicians were trying to achieve, and hence is nost likely to be very much more enjoyable to listen to.
Of course, in its entirety, the structure of each and every note played by each musicsian with reference to time would be the major factor, and this in itself is the summation of numerous other factors in sound reproduction.
We all know that you can slow the pace of music, in particular by making changes to your system which slow the base notes down (e.g by overextending the length of the note or prolonging its decay unnaturally. Just try adding a subwoofer out of sync with the rest of the system, yet receiving the same electrical messages as the rest of the system). Or by making your system so highly analytical e.g excessive use of silver cables, that the details seem to be resolved around each musician rather then encapturing all the performers together. This gives a segmented/disjointed feel to the piece. i.e unmusical. You find it difficult to understand the soul of the piece, and concentrate on the individuals instead of the group as a whole.
Just to complicate matters further, copper cables can add warmth to the tone of the music, provide a feeling of coherence in the overall picture between the musicians but at the same time can lead to a leaden quality to the tune. This again is non musical in my opinion. I am of course generalizing here but you get the idea.
In conclusion then, if you listen to a sony scd 1(unmodded),
you can enjoy the detail retrieval ambience etc, but are you truely feeling what the musicians have tried to achieve and parade to you,their musical genious if you will. You may delight in the detail, but what about the music. Indeed many may not even realize there was a purpose to the piece that should have made your feet tap. You then put the Marantz dv8400 in its place (unmodded). You play the same red book cd, and the piece this time seems to click togerther.The detail may not be as obvious, nor the individual instrumental ambience. But, you are no longer listen to the individual instrumentalists, but you see the piece as a whole. A whole which hangs together creating a flow and rhtyhm with purpose and emotion. Your heart is racing and the hair on the back of your neck raises and you are rocking in tune with the music. The notes produced by the musicians are timed start and stop in their release from your system in such a way that they are interacting with one another in the way they were meant to be as originally felt by the musicians. That is their TIMING and PACE are such that a RHYTHM develops.
doc luke |
Phil
Very well said, i had missed that diagnosis, and I have seen many cases of these including myself from time to time. However, I am applying my trade in an attempt to utlise the de sensitization technique which might lead to a partial cure.
Thanks for reminding me of about that syndrome, it will be a difficult one to crack.
I am happy to provide medical advice in return for bits of unwanted hifi should any of you desire to take my advice.
Doc Luke |
Hi all,
I dont mean to be overburdening your site, but just felt I had to share all my experiences with you all. One final comment on this DIY stuff,
I had the Sony SACD sc1 , haad all the mods done by audiocom in the uk, clock2, black gataes, vishays, etc. etc. I used in my system, hovland hp100, Music reference valve amps, avantgarde duo, numerous support platforms, townshend, ebony, maple etc etc.
The sony was always detailed sounding, with reasonable tone and soundstaging, but overall lightweight with a forced 'musical' presentation with red book cd. SACD was excellent, more organic sounding,more palpability and 'musical'. I added the modded X10D that helped warm and provide a three dimentional sound. Still not satisfied with redbook, i got the chord dac 64. Chord dac 64 plus sony transport only a little better than the sony alone. I added the musical fidelity x10d, now more body and tonal warmth to the sound, with a more relaxed and realistic presentation of the tunes. I then added the DIP by Monarchy. So the set up was sony coaxial digital output to monarchy dip($100 used) to chord dac to x10d($100). WOW, my regular reedbook cds were matching easily the sacd sound. I begab to see why the full potential of redbook cd was never realized.
Make your own conclusions. The chord dac has its own highly developed clock!So has the DIP, so hs the sony with its audiocom clock 2/power supply.
I wonder if these units can further improve the sound of the already professionally modded units.??????
I am still waiting for Alex just to take my order.I think his order books will be full for some time to come and rightly so.
Does any one have an ALP fully modded with his latest dac clock etc etc, they would like to sell?/
doc Luke
doc luke |
Hi all
DAC,
A neurotic condition founded on the unrealistic obsession of seeking for the best sound. It is comparable to mania. A manic patient, has beliefs of grandiosity and super power, including spending money at will even though there is not that much in the coffers. This can potentially lead to financial ruin in some cases, and being kicked out of the house by the missis.
There are no strong foundations to believe it is hereditary directly, however, an obsessive verging on neurotic perfectionalist personality is deemed tobe the root trigger combined with intelligence and the need for progressing the boundaries of human interpretation.Such individuals are likely to lead other parts of their lives in a similar obsessive manner. This obsessive behaviour can lead to irritabillity and over sensitivity. (Hence the tone of some of the comments on this forum).
Biochemically this is easily explained by the presence of inadequate amounts of serotonin a neurotransmitter, which can be artificially replaced with its analogues that is the
SSRI (serotonin selective receptive inhibitors) ie such as prozac.
In itself it is not necessarily a bad thing as long as family, exercise, eating healthily etc. are not neglected.
After many hours in the laboratory and using Guido as my guinea pig, I have now come to two potential cures.
1) Someone reaches Audio nirvana and is able to duplicate the original performance replicated to perfection in your room I DONT THINK SO,not in our lifetime.
2) If there is a financial risk, then DIY is fun. See the many traetments I have so far contributed above, which do nbot cost much gives you hours of relaxation from constantly driving yourself mad over the accuracy of your present system. But above all, you do not need to make large payouyts. A power supply mod can cost a few quid, can be implemented in minutes, and then you can get the same amount of time analyzing it as you would a new piece of equipment.
3) I know a man in the heart of the Congo jungal who makaes a potent herbal remedy called JJ that is his term for Jungal Juice. I can let you have this doctors name and address if you wish. One word of warning though like some other one man team hifi manufacturers he is extermely difficult to get hold of, has a dubious address, and you may not get a quote for several months after which the potion may take up to a year to arrive, he is after all a one man team.
Alas as you can see there is no cure,it is a chronic condition with the possibility of burning itself out in the future.
best of Luck to you all, I will continue my research and let you know the minute I have implemented a new mod to my management program.
doc Luke. |
DEAR ALEX APL,
I have left my E mail address on your website. Please get me on your order books as soon as possible, remember I am in LONDON uk, in the land of analogue lovers who can only make do with only reasonable products like chord dacs, arcams,musical fidelity etc, I have every confidence your mods will bring a new world of audio nirvana here, and I am your man to pass the message on this side of the pond.
Luke (doc) |
Hi Guys its the Doc again. Thought as you kinds wanted the threads to stick to its original intemt, I have a review you might be interetsed in.
I at last managed to get the FULL APL modded sacd, clock, dac etc.
I was able to run it via an isolation transformer to uk 240v. Boy what a difference the isolation transformer made as opposed to a simple step down transformer but thats another story.
I compared it to my highly modified Marantz 8400 tansport, clock, black gates etc etc. with the REIMYO DAP 777.
Absolutely no contest. The APL was superior in every way possible. The best cd player I have ever heard, closer to realism than I have ever heard redbook cd get to.
I do believe however that there is more to be got from the SACD1000. These will be my modifications in the next few weeks and I will report any further improvements.
1)High quality isolation transformer.
2)Exchange all the power cables for silver coated copper in a dielectic sleeve of teflon.
3)Exchange the very thick (?.4mm)silver coated interconnect cables between the DAC /valve output and transformer out puts to .15mm.
4) change the phono outputs to rhodium plated ones and their ?brass interconnects to fine silver coated copper ones.
There are more tweaks but this will do for now.
I am certain that these tweaks will ring out more fine detail, spatial information and aid transparency further.
Luke |
Guidocorona
it is near impossible for me to get an apl off alex at the moment because of various circumstances. This one was bought used from audiogon and I had to pay over the top for it, such is the rariry and design for his units. So I believe it must have been fully broken in when I got it. However that might not be so, so i will continue to burn it in before I start modding it.
Luke |
Guido,
your only jealous cos you aint no good with a soldering iron and you aint no good at physics and by the sounds of it you aint no good at medicine either.
Ah boy does it feel so good to be so multi talented as me.
Once again Guido you have managed to lower the tone of this forum.
You are such a hippocrite ( and a jalous guy)just look at your own message on 28/1/05. |
hollyp of what importance is it if I am a doctor or not? |
I whole heartedly agree with you 711smiling you are true to your heart. |
|
I agree with Tvad,
we have been waiting for quite a while for this shootout, and no one has so far come clean with the details. I am sure thee is a signature to each one which pople can relate to and make decisions possibly as to which one for them is the best.
I get the feeling everyone got on too well, and politeness has been the order of the day. I am sure 711 smiling will soon make his voice heard loud and clear. |
Lets not all forget that some machines can give their best in certain set ups, we do not know for sure the compatibility of the system used in the review for any of the machines. Indeed if the results were close might I boldly suggest that the system may have had some influence here. I feel these comments are warranted, because previous shootouts with apl and modwrights in particular have been decidedly close in terms of overall quality but I got the impression different in their overall presentation.
For me ideally I would have wanted to know which sounded overall the most enjoyable and realistic.
Furthermore, We have to take into account here listener experience and skill in judging hifi equipment during a sitting. As we all know most high end units can sound similar but to the highly trained, experienced and critically astute ears, these can sound like 'huge' differences. I am not trying to have a go at anyone who was at the listening session, I am just throwing this up in the air for people to relect on. |
Might I reiterate once again my surprise at the results of the test. I have been using the so called most 'radical step forward in cd redbook sound reply' unit in the shape of the Reimyo DAP 777. This was used with the Marantz DV8400 highly modded transport. Yet Alex's older APL -SACD 1000,was superior by a large margin in every possible way. Now either that unit has been hyped by the press (that includes numerous magazines on line and in paper format), or the APL unit is something very special. That is not to say that the other units in the shootout might not have been special.
How much better could the DV-50 have been with the clock upgrade? if it is considered to be not quite up with the best in terms of its cd redbook replay in standard form.
Please dont shoot me down, as I have not heard the DV50, i am going on what others have said in the press and on this thread.
Something just doesnot smell right. I could be wrong though. |
Hi 711 Smiling
great to have you back, I was wondering where you had got to. Even more admirable is the fact that you were man enough to admit that you were stressed by all of the previous weeks events.
I agree entirely with you regarding the non event. In all the years of juding units with my hifi friends, I have never known units to be judged in the way you described they were for 'that' shoot out. Which makes the results even more dubious just as I had already commented on earlier in the thread.
I am waiting for my APL denon 3920 to arrive, but please do let us know how it compares in your opinion with the modwright.
Luke |
well i guess you are all cracking up as tends to happen from time to time on this forum. Funny I wonder if the weather has got anything to do with it?
I have enough psychiatric cases on my surgery list to keep me going, cant be doing with anymore.
Guess its time to leave also.
|
oops, sorry, 3910, my typing is getting worse instead of better. Alex has promised to use a high quality isolation transformer for the uk 240v conversion. I understand that consulting audios isolations transformers are used by Underwood mods, and that this has a dramatic affect on the overall sound. It will be interesting if this does alter the sound of the APL 3910 for the better.
Luke |
TGUN
Your comments are downright rude and disrespectful. However your simplified view of modding does strongly have an underlying smell of jealousy. |
Boa 2,
I have Alex's apl sacd 1000 at present. My initial impressiions was one of even handedness across all areas including musicality and realism. My system includes the hyperion speakers, manley retro 300bs and a passive transformer preamp. The cables are all copper plated silver and not pure silver. I wonder if this may have helped bring out the chill you look for. This unit of course is not his latest and I was using an isolation transformer to get the 240v conversion for the uk. Some designers feel that the isolation transformer is critical at the input for sound quality. The other factor one should take into consideration is the fact that the phillips sacd 1000 was always noted by many listeners as being a very capable player when it came to communicating the emotional impact of a piece of music.
I use to use the reimyo DAP 777, and thought this was the first major advance in digital audio in years. However, as soon as i heard the apl sacd, I realized that not only was the step forward gigantic but it was what i had been waiting for all of my hifi listening life which spans 20 years. A sound that could at once be totally comfortable and competitive with the best analogue rigs. I own the platine verdier, graham and transfiguration set up, stevens and billlington step up transformer with GSP.
Luke
Luke |
BOA,
my comments are meant to reflect that the thread has decayed into nonsense again. People are using this thread just for a laugh. Well that is a complete waste of my time. I am on this thread for hifi not boring schoolboy inuendos.
Yes you lot remind me of my patients when they are depressed. i.e talk a lot of b..ls..t. I have to put up with them all day, I can't be doing with more of the same when I want to relax, and reflect on my next move for my hifi system. Boring boring boring, this thread is now offically dead in my book. Nothing left to gain from it.
Luke |
Boa 2 thank you for your concern
I apologise for upsetting so many of you. I guess there may be a an age difference accounting for my lack of enthusiasm for such humour, though I could be wrong. Nonetheless it seems there is little to be gained from this thread now. I am interested in learning about hifi not humour(which can be of a rather sarcastic nature a lot of the time). I therefore see it as a waste of my time opening up this thread.
Good luck to you all in your search of the ultimate.
regards Luke |
Yes I am back, no sneeky remarks. Just want to share the latest with all you audiophiles. Got the Fully Moded APL sacd phillips 1000. Fantastic presence, then blew it by plugging in 240v to the 115v, got the APL 3910 on order with Alex (is he still alive?). Couldnt wait got a modwright sony 999es. Warm tonally better than the apl but could not match it for sheer presence. Added my Musical Fidelity X10D, with extraordinary power supply, ECC85 mullards, and panasonic caps, and wow, couldn't explain the transformation. From very nice to very special. Do not know why. Adding the x10 'special' to the apl filled out the spaces and solidified the images, but in no way was it as great a transformation as I got from the modwright,talk about synergy. The modwright now easily bettered the APL. Cannot tell how good this cheap upgrade is until i compare it to the 3910 apl but looks extremely promising, may even beat it.
Luke |
Dblb
the modwright sony was a well used broken in audiogon purchase. However I was using a stepdown isolated transformer for uk voltage. |
