AVGURU, please see my answers below,
Denon uses their famed ALU processing (an arithmetic logarithm) to "interpolate" a word length of 24 bits from a standard 16 bit redbook cd. They've been using this technology for the last 10 years in everything from their recievers to their dvd players to their cd players.
>>> Denon has refined their algorithm for the 24 bit expansion. There are many other companies using similar techniques. Philips SACD1000 and even the little Pioneer 563a are also expanding to 24 bit. Of course, the engine incorporated to do the job is really important. In the Denon 3910 case, as I mentioned earlier, this is done by Worlds best hands down Analog Devices SHARC Audio DSP.
This is a proprietary process that Denon has developed. Other more "hi-fi" companies such as Ayre, Cary, Arcam etc accomplish the same feat through a different process that I'm not technical enough to explain. But the results speak for themselves and I don't think most people reading this post feel that Denon's sound is anywhere close to the performance levels of the companies mentioned above. And to be honest, there are great 1 bit cd players on the market today that sound incredibly good. So I'm not even sure if interpolating data to a larger bit stream is critical to obtaining great sound.
>>> See the above answer. The Bitstream conversion has nothing to do with the bit rate expansion.
Regarding upsampling (atually there's no such thing and it should be referred to as oversampling)your comment "there's no theoretical or practical advantadge to upsampling the cd" is not true. While Denon may have come to this decision after reviewing the overall design and performance criteria of their units, there are many other companies (including Marantz which is now owned by Denon) that are very high on the concept and use it with regularity. Ayre, Arcam, Cary, Musical Fidelity, Esoteric, etc are but a few of the companies that routinely use oversampling in their cd players and with GREAT RESULTS! All of the above companies are much more highly respected than Denon when it comes to their engineering design and "know how".
>>> Oversampling and Upsampling (actually Re-sampling) are two different things. It does not matter to me what the other companies do with GREAT RESULTS because whatever they do does not sound right. The Re-sampling to any rate does not improve the quality of a CD. This can be clearly seen in a Spectral Analysis after Re-sampling which I have done using the best CD/DVD mastering program available in the World. It is also clearly stated in their instruction manual that re-sampling the CD will NOT improve the audio quality. Further more, when CD is re-sampled to 96 KHz or 192 KHz there is actual loss of information because these frequencies do not divide by 44.1KHZ but to 48 KHz. So mathematical truncation is used for the conversion. Re-sampling to 96 or 192 makes it actually worse than just keeping it as 44.1 but is really good marketing bringing a lot of money.
I agree that oversampling is not always necessary to achieve good sounding cd playback. But I just want to make it clear to everyone reading your comments that was a decision Denon made and reasons could be varied...anywhere from cost concerns to the design of their unit not being compatible with oversampling. You will note that on Esoterics's UX1 player they decided not provide all of the oversampling options available on the DV 50. One of the primary reasons for this was the design of their transport made it unnecessary to do so.
>>> That was a wise decision for Teac. Again, oversampling is something different that happens in the Digital Filter for PCM and uses LINEAR interpolation. The transport has nothing to do with that.
Regarding the DV-50's transport being the same as the Pioneers, please do not understate the importance/impact of adding the clamping mechanism...which reduces jitter and allows the laser mechanism to track the disc in a more linear and accurate fashion. In my mind this modification alone puts the Esoteric transport on a higher level above the Pioneer. Furthermore, the laser tracking mechanism and the laser wavelengths (which are adjustable) help by determining how far the player is capable of digging in to the "cd pits" and obtaining the recorded information.
>>> The clamper is nicer, I agree, but this is not necessarily removing the jitter from the transport. Also the clamper has nothing to do with the Laser tracking. The Laser tracking mechanism and laser wavelengths (which can not be adjustable) remain untouched and original to the Pioneer transport found in the DV-50.
As you know, many laser tracking mechanisms travel on a thin wire that in itself is subject to vibration. The better companies such as Esoteric do not use this method..or they use a better version. In my mind the outer housing,laser mechansim, etc are all part of the transport and in this regard the Esoteric does have a better transport than the Denon. You are free to disagree as I'm sure you will.
>>> There is no Laser mechanism that travels on thin wires. If you are referring to the actual top lens of the Laser pick up then yes it is suspended in thin wires in 99% of the cases including DV-50. The ONLY laser pick up in the World to date using pure magnetic field for the top lens suspension in the Laser pick up and radial primary tracking is Philips. As I mentioned above, the Laser tracking mechanism in the DV-50 is not upgraded in any way from its original Pioneer state.
Regarding comparing the DSP (Digital Surround processing)chips in both units that really doesn't concern me as I'm much more interested in analog audio performance (op amps, DAC's and their associated filtering processes) than I am with digital processing..most of which is associated with video and digital processing speed. Is the Denon the better DVD player? Probably.
Do I care? NO!
Is HDCD a nice feature to have? Maybe to some but not to me since the in my listening tests the use of the three oversampling filters can bring a level of resolution to cd's that's better than HDCD.
>>> DSP stands for Digital Signal Processing and I was referring strictly to the AUDIO DSP in the Denon which, again, is superior to the one in DV-50. As for the HDCD decoding, you really need to hear how HDCD sounds with the Denon 3910 compared to other HDCD or non HDCD machines. The Analog Devices DSP is practically unbeatable.
Alex, 711 has given me several extended listening auditions of your units and I think they sound incredible..much better than the DV 50 in terms of musicality. And if you are successful in bringing the DV 50 to a level of performance on par with your APL 3910 I will gladly be one of your next customers requesting an upgrade. But I just had to respond to your comments and imho the build quality, transport and overall engineering found in the DV 50 is on a much higher level than the 3910. To be able to use the lesser Denon platform and take it to a level of performance that surpasses the DV 50 is high praise indeed and a testament to your modding skills!
>>> I am glad that you liked my 3910. It is actually not modded, it is my own machine. All I use from it is its transport and DSP just like many other companies like Krell, Musical Fidelity (Philips). Marantz (Philips, Sony, Pioneer). Teac (Pioneer), etc. The digital information from the transport is taken to my own DAC board then to my own tubed Analog stage which are powered by my own power supply.
The only better thing about DV-50 compared the Denon is its much nicer enclosure, nothing else. Of course, the DV-50 DACs, Analog stage and Power supply might be and I am sure are much better than the Denon, but I do not have any reasons to care about that because I completely bypass and disable them with my re-design. Since ALL I care is the transport and DSP of a given machine, the Denon 3910 makes better platform than the DV-50 at least theoretically. I do have DV-50 coming in for evaluation so the results will be announced soon.
Now, if you ask me which machine in current production features the best transport, I will say it is Teac VRDS in the UX-1 and X-01. There is nothing better currently available. I can not comment on their DSP though. It would be nice to use one of these for a platform but their price tag is really high. Who knows, I might be able to do it some day.
Regards,
Alex |
...AVGURU wrote: "The DV-50 transport (while not their famed VRDS one) is still clearly superior to the off the shelf one denon uses (either Pioneer or Philips). The 3910's build quality, while decent, is nowhere on the level of the DV-50's. Finally the DV-50 upsamples to some ungodly frequency rate (1,700) while the Denon (even with the mods) doesn't upsample at all."
The DV-50 uses unmodified (except for the clamper) off the shelf Pioneer transport as found in the $150 Pioneer 563a and 578a. This transport is also used in their top of the line DV-59AVi. It is nice transport, but it is not better than the Denon transports. Denon DOES NOT use off the shelf transport, they use their own, it's really nice and more solid than the Pioneer transport found in DV-50.
Sure, DV-50 enclosure is nicer than the Denon, but I doubt that DV-50 DSP is anywhere near the Denon. The Denon does not upsample because there is no theoretical or practical benefit of upsamppling the CD. The Denon expands the 16 bit CD data to 24 bit using World's best Analog Devices 32 bit floating point SHARC Audio DSP. The same DSP takes care of the HDCD decoding too.
I have a few DV-50 owners who have contacted me asking if I can implement the mod into their players. One of them is sending me his DV-50 next week. This should be interesting!
I hope you do not mind my intrusion! Please feel free to ask questions.
Regards, |
Mr. Jsala, nice to hear from you!
The 2900 and 3910 transports are absolutelly identical. The tray loading mechanis, and clamper were re-designed in the 3910 and although it makes a cheap funny noise it is better than the 2900. What makes the 3910 a winner is its better Audio DSP design. The major flaw with the 3910 is its Master Clock circuit. The 3910 owned by 711 Smilin has compromised Master Clock upgrade which is still not to my liking and is about to be completely removed (bypassed and disabled) from the machine. My new coming Master Clock generator will be installed soon. If my 3910 sounds good now, just wait until I upgrade it with the new Master Clock.
I hope you are doing well! BTW, the 563a with the new DAC board is now reality. I just completed the first one. I now have a option of using Tamura transformers for its Analog stage. It sounds really amazing.
Regards,
Alex |
AVGURU, It is interesting to read your comments. You are right, we should not turn this to something we do not want to...:-). The truth (my truth) is that I have seen with my own eyes a Spectral Analysis of re-sampled CD with sample by sample accuracy. There are many errors in the re-sampled file and the spectrum is pretty much as the original. Anyway, we do not have to go further on that one.
When I get the DV-50 I will send you a picture of the Laser pick up and the tracking mechanism so you can see it...:-)
If I am to work with the DV-50 everything inside for the main Stereo channels will be bypassed. All I am going to use is its transport/DSP section, just the way I do with the Denon. I will let you know how it goes.
Regards,
Alex |
Guidocorona and others who sugested using the VRDS; Thank you I appreciate it! I have already thought about it, but it will take substantial investment in building a player like that. I am personaly thinking of re-designing X-01 first and see what it will bring me. Oh well, may be some day...:-)
Regards,
Alex |
|
Agreed, there is no better "all solid state" than Meitner out there. I've heard it in my own system. It was the new DAC6e and highly modded (by me) SACD1000 transport. It sounded phenomenal (for what it is)!
This also proves the fact that, with today's very advanced DSP technologies and re-clocking techniques, the actual transport is not that important. Meitner used (and still uses in their new $7K transport) a flimsy $100 (or less) Philips digital transport which is not even close compared to VRDS and Sony Pro transports. The paradox is that Meitner gear beats them all...:-)
Regards,
Alex |
Reb1208, have you heard SACD playback with Meitner digital products? There is nothing out there in its stock form to outperform it. May be there are just a couple to have "better" CD playback, but the difference is so subtle that it fails in personal taste cathegory. As I mentioned, the transport Meitner uses is really cheap and flimsy compared to Teac's VRDS or the Sony Pro transport used in the Reimyo. What that proves?
Regards,
Alex |
Mgottlieb, I would have to agree with you! This is the reason why I can not wait to put my hands on and re-designin X-01 similar to what I do with the Denon machines. Of course, it will turn out very expensive, but having the best transport in the World available (the new VRDS), might bring truly amazing results.
Let's hope I'll be able to do it some day..:-)
Regards,
Alex |
Mgottlieb, I hope you are right...:-) It would probably be best to work with the UX-1 because it is universal player and has exactly the same transport as X-01.
Will see...:-)
Regards,
Alex |
Reb1208, please note the "all solid state"...:-)
No, Meitner it not better than the best analog setups...but...$20K vinyl setup recorded on 96/24 DVD-A sounds the same trough my 3910 compared to the original...:-)...same system, same cables, same speakers. Who knows, if we can record the same vinyl trough the same $20K setup to SACD, then the results with Meitner can be the same. We won't know that till Meitner supports DVD-A though..:-)
Regards,
Alex |
Guidocorona, the Master Clock I am going to install tomorrow in 711s Denon 3910 is ZERO (0) ppm stable in wide temperature range with 50 ps of jitter. It clocks the entire machine with its 4 outputs of various frequencies.
In any case, this turns out not to be as important, believe it or not. Low jitter is important, but the frequency stability over temperature is not. You would not hear even 100 ppm. Higher figures will result in audible speed fluctuations, but not in decreased audio quality. The secret is elsewhere...:-)
Regards,
Alex |
Boa2, what can I say, I am really busy. My usual bedtime is 4:30am. I also thought that I will not have a demo 3910 for this Thursday, but it turns out I will. Please take your favorite music and stop by. I will email you with my address.
Regards,
Alex |
Guidocorona, first off let me say that there is no such thing as Balanced source to begin with. The balanced designs have very high CMRR and are very useful and required for production studios and other Pro applications where long cables are must. For home, it does not make ANY sense to use balanced gear. Why? Because the so called "true balanced" (or full differential) designs use the same amount of components for each phase per channel. What would you say, is it better to have 2 components on the signal path or is better to have 4? I vote for 2. The transformers I am going to use have Faradey shielded windings for much improved balance. Even in full differential design there is components mismatch so nothing is really perfect...;-) Why I am offering the Balanced is for people who do not agree that there is no benefit of it and insist on having it...:-)
Balanced = push pull. I still prefer SE Class A, nothing like it...;-)
Regards,
Alex |
Jfz, here is the link to one of the US retailers. This machine is being distributed by TEAC Esoteric in Japan. Pretty awesome stuff.
http://www.aaudio.com/store/ProductDetail.asp?catID=38&subCatID=252&productID=318
Regards,
Alex |
Guidocorona, I agree with you and whatever I wrote before was strictly from my perspective. I have nothing against Balanced designs and their manufacturers. As you said, the truth is in the hearing. Yes, SE outputs stay intact as well as Balanced outs. My Balanced option approach is nothing new. It is widely used for Studio microphones. Since the microphone is a single ended device (as all other sources), a phase splitter is required. In most cases it is done with transformer. So I do the same. Even in digital applications there is no Balanced source. The phase splitting is usually done in the digital domain. The designer has the option to convert it back to SE, process the Analog in SE and split it to Balanced again, or just install twice more components and call it "true balanced".
Regards,
Alex |
Dbld, I am happy to hear that others share my view regarding "balanced".
Well, I do have the DV-50 on my bench as I type. My expectations are to improve its performance compared to stock and give it true DSD capabilities for stereo. To be honest, I am still beating my head with it so I can not comment more for now..:-) Many will disagree with my opinion about tube stages, but I like tubes. Sadly there is no space in the DV-50 for my tube mods so it will remain all Solid State. The ouput buffer will be MOSFET single ended working in Class A which is actually not bad at all and in combination with the Tamura coupling transformers provides very analog-like, natural sound character. I will tell more as I progress.
Regards,
Alex |
OK guys, I uderstand and agree with all of you. This is the reason why I will soon offer the Balanced outputs while the Single Ended RCA will remain intact...:-)
Regards,
Alex |
Guys, I am finally ready with the DV-50. I am posting this in reply to all of you who wanted to know how this project turns out. All I can say is WOW!!! Since none of the original circuitry for the Stereo part is used, the original sonic character of the machine is gone. The entire upsampling part for CD which turns out is the contributor to the "one dimensional", artificial and sterile CD sound is completely out of the picture. The original DACs and Analog stage are gone too. This thing is so full, three dimensional, lush and musical that is scary. I am glad it costs $5K because it would seriously hurt my Denon sales otherwise...:-). Yes, it is coming VERY close to the Denon. You can not believe there is no tube inside the DV-50. Now Alex can't wait to get the new UX-3 which is on order already...:-)
My web site will be updated with more details about the DV-50 mod soon. Stay tuned!
Happy Holidays!
Alex |
Guidocorona, as I mentioned, there is no "true balanced" designs. Why balanced sounds better to many is because both phases are eventually added at the end - the speaker. Just like paralleling multiple devices (DACs, components, etc.) you are getting the sum of them which results in better sound. Wheter you are going to parallel two single ended stages or use balanced design, the end result (sonically) should be the same when it comes to home applpications. Of course, the balanced design rejects all kinds of common signals making it suitable for Pro requirements. To design a "true balanced" I will have to use two triodes driving the output transformer. This will create all kinds of problems due to tubes mismatch. Even if you get exactly matched tubes, they will deteriorate differently over their life span. This can be somewhat compensated by NFB but I don't like this idea. With the component-less single ended to balanced conversion, you will get exactly the same benefit of the so called "true balanced" designs (sonic-wise).
Regards,
Alex |
Guidocorona, DV-50 is Op Amp phase splitter. Not sure about X-01. The only "true balanced" machine I've seen so far is the EMM gear.
Regards,
Alex |
Springbok10, that's why soon I will have the Balanced out option.
Regards,
Alex |
Guidocorona, yes, 711 Smilin will eventually have a demo unit, or may be AVGURU will wolunteer with his Teac. The first DV-50 just went out to Texas so you will hear about it soon...:-)
UX-3 supposedly comes with the real VRDS transport. It is universal machine so it plays everything. I would assume that, just like the DV-50, the UX-3 will have "Display off" and "Video off" so I am not concerned about any interferrences.
Since DSD stream is not allowed out of the SACD players, I am not interested in any other format they convert SACD for digital transmossion, so I do not care for external DACs. Also, why you would like to re-clock? Are you going to be running a production studio with "house clock" so you need to sync the UX-3 to it?...:-) The other case would be If you have high jitter clock in your given Digital machine so you need to re-clock it. Tell me what you think; is it better to have a killer clock to begin with or it is better to re-clock? So, I do not care about the re-clocking either...:-)
Regards,
Alex
|
Dbld, sure, just let me know when you're ready.
The mod affects just the Stereo RCA outputs. Sorry, the Balanced output gets disabled too.
Regards,
Alex |
Guidocorona, I thought the X-03 is just SACD/CD player, no DVD-A. I would rather go with Universal machine as UX-3 is.
On the clock issue, my Master Clock specs are pretty much as good as you can get - Zero PPM stability and 50 pS jitter. Of course, as I mentioned before, clock matters to some point but there are other equally important factors when it comes to Digital. When it comes to CD/DAD/DVD-A (PCM) playback, I have a little surprise coming early next year. It's a secret for now, but it will take care of all clocking and other issues with PCM...;-)
Regards,
Alex |
Guidocorona, this is a very good point! I am plannig to have a demo unit by mid February next year which I can ship around. I would appreciate it, if the attendees of this forum consider extensive sessions of multiple shootouts at given location. I am sure that Dan Wright of Modwright, John Tucker of Exemplar and other well respected modders would like to participate with demo machine of their latest and best possible design. Some stock gear as Esoteric, EMM, Reimyo, Meridian, dSC, etc. should also be considered. I am all for it.
Regards,
Alex |
Avguru, the currently offered mod for DV-50 is all solid state, no tubes inside. The intro price is $1495. While the unit was here, I figured that I can install the tube mod in it as well. The thing is that the tube has to be exposed on the top of the player. I can mange to hide it inside, but in that case ventilation holes are must. If DV-50 owners agree with the above conditions and want to go for the reference tube mod, then yes, it will cost $3200 as for the Denon.
I was inspired by the killer bass performance of the DV-50 which surpassed the Denon. Of course, I have quickly figured why is that and the Denon has been already updated. Yes, it has the same bass as DV-50 now...:-)
The DV-50 mod is for owners who like the appearance of the unit and other features and would like to take its performance level to new heights. For those who don't care about appearance or are on a budget, the 3910 would be the better option. I am not convinced that fully modded DV-50 will outperform fully modded 3910. I like Sony DSP which is used by the Denon while the Teac uses Pioneer DSP.
Regards,
Alex |
Reb1208, I listened to the stock DV-50 very shortly as it was not to my taste either - very artificial. What you are saying is right, but it is not caused by ill bass, it is caused by ill midrange and highs in the stock DV-50. After I completely disabled the upsampling, DACs and Analog stage in the machine and installed my components, the sound became magical. It came very close to the Denon in terms of soundstaging, imaging, mids and highs clarity and overall musicality. What really impressed me (after the mods) was the stunning bass performance of the Teac which, again, surpassed the Denon bass. I figured why is that and have updated the Denon which now has the same or better bass than the modded DV-50.
Absolutelly, I am also looking for true reproduction with flat response over the frequency range. The modded DV-50 and Denon 3910 are flat from 20Hz to 20kHz / + - 0.5db.
Regards,
Alex |
AVGURU, Sorry for the delay! I am so busy, my bed time moved to 5:30 - 6:00 AM.
To be honest with you, you will need to hear the modded DV-50 for your self and find out if the problems you are talking about remain. In any case, with the $1495 all solid state mod, the DV-50 is still not up to the Denon 3910 performance with the latest mod revision. The Denon is just incredible! I am sure that you will find the time to listen to 711's Denon 3910 again in the near future and give us your impressions. It will be really interesting.
Merry Christmas!
Alex |
Tbg, the digital attenuator I am talking about is non-decimating. I do not hear the problems you've experienced with dCS gear.
Regards,
Alex |
Tbg, I would agree too if it comes to the classic volume controls used in some current digital players. Let's say you have the best volume control built in your digital source which is a stepped attenuator with HOLCO, VISHAY or other exotic resistors. Let's assume the attenuator is about 10kOhm end to end. You will usually listen at 12 - 1 o clock which results in about half way trough the attenuator. This means that your output impedance will be about 5kOhm (kind of high). The result is lack of dynamics, added noise and smeared frequency response. Every time you turn that attenuator, it will change the output impedance of your machine. You can basically hear a sonic difference on every step since the output impedance is changing. This is the reason why when you buffer it with preamp it will sound better. The preamp has high input impedance and constant low impedance output (about or less than 200 Ohms) capable of driving your cables and amplifier. With attenuation done in the digital domain, there are no such negative effects as the output stage of the machine is directly connected to your amp through the IC cables - just like a preamplifier. The output impedance is constant and there are NO added components to the critical analog signal path.
Lastly, regardless of how perfect your preamp is, it would be best if it's not on the signal path. Now, if you like the added noise, distortions and "bloom" of a tube preamplifier this is up to you and your taste...:-)
Merry Christmas!
Alex |
Aldavis, it is very simple to understand. EVERY single component on the signal path adds noise and distortions. The passive components (resistors, caps, transformers) add less, but the active components (transistors, tubes, etc.) are adding more. This is the reason why more complicated circuits require sufficient amount of negative feedback.
In conclusion, all of your audio components add noise and distortions (some more some less). If you like the bloom of your CJ preamp and this combination sounds better to you, then listen that way. Of course, again, this will be added noise and distortions.
Regards,
Alex |
Aldavis, no offence taken! I use the term "bloom" because it is commonly used for the added warmth from tube stages. I am not the guy who looks for really creamy, flabby and tubey sound. The 6H30 tube I use in my designs is also known as "the solid state tube". Not many are using it because it does not add the usual "bloom" and soft tubey sound signature as many other tubes do. I would hate to mask existing problems with tube stage that rolls off the highs and "blooms" so you don't hear the harshness. I take a different approach of having everything as right as possible before the tube stage. Then, the transformer coupled 6H30 adds just more naturalness and musicality to the sound. Why is that? It is becuase the 6H30 is Super-linear tube which does not have much gain. This allows for design without negative feedback. The end result is dynamic, transparent, 3D solid-state-like sound with added high frequency sweetnes and liquid midrange coming from the tube. Since all passive or active components add noise and distortions, my tube stage isn't free from that - it adds them too. The question is if you would like to make things worse using preamp.
Regards,
Alex |
Reb1208, sorry to say but you can not roll tubes as my circuit will not allow it. I have a box full of the best available NOS tubes (about $3K worth) and have tried all. I have yet to hear anything else that sounds close to the 6H30.
If you hear the machine with the 6H30 tube stage, you will realize that you don't need to roll tubes.
Regards,
Alex |
Oldpet, Paul, the package that includes the 3910 machine and free shipping is currently $4200. Yes, the unit retains "universal" status and Video.
Regards,
Alex |
Dbld, the Denon 3910 has the same transport as the previous 2900 model. The Servo control is also the same (Sony chips). The only difference is the DVD processor being ESS in the 3910. It takes care of CD and DVD processing and uses large SDRAM memory buffer. In the case the machine was not reading 192K discs, the ESS processor might have been defective. Since the 3910 is a machine like all other Digital players, anything can happen to it at any time, there are no guarantees. If you look at the warranty information on my site, you will see that I offer 1 year parts and labor for the re-design (mod) part. Also, during that year, if something else happens to the player, I will not charge labor but just unmarked parts cost. After the first year, the labor will be symbolic for any repair plus, again, unmarked parts cost. Since I am used to $200K + Sony Broadcast and Pro machines, there is nothing that can happen to 3910 (or any other machine) that I will not be able to fix as it looks like a baby toy to me
:-)
The 3910 spins the media much faster than a CD player because its playback is non-linear. It fills SDRAM memory buffer and the data is being clocked out of it. This results in dramatically reduced jitter coming from the transport, but also vibrations with not perfectly balanced media. Even the best transports in the world are still suspended on rubber or silicon dampers. Although you will not hear or feel the vibrations with these more expensive machines, if you can put your hand on the actual transport inside it still vibrates. Heavy transport is not the solution; the solution is the Audio Desk Systeme from Germany which bevels the edge of the Media. Together with other benefits, the best that I like about this little miracle is that it takes the center hole of the media for a reference and perfectly balances it. This results in NO vibrations whatsoever even if you play your CD on a boombox transport at X16 speed. The sonic improvement is dramatic.
Regards,
Alex |
Dbld, the DV-50 does not use memory buffers for CD, so it spins 1x. The 3910 spins at least 6x.
Regards,
Alex |
Springbok10, the Audio Desk Systeme is stand alone machine you can buy for about $600. I received mine today and will report on what it does shortly after I bevel a few of my favorite CDs.
Denon reliabilty has been great so far.
Regards,
Alex |
Dbld, AVGURU and the rest of the Chicago group really need to hear the 3910 again as it is night and day compared to what they heard in the past.
Regards,
Alex |
Oldpet, we can not compare apples and oranges. The available "bargains" do not have expensive tube stages inside as Exemplar, Modwright and my 3910. This is the reason for the price difference.
More affordable all solid state (tube-less) re-design for the 3910 is now available based on the one I made to the Teac DV-50. Instead of tube output stage it will come with MOSFET Class "A" transformer coupled stage using Tamura (Japan) transformers. The mod will include my DAC with built in remote controlled attenuator, my Master Clock and various power supply upgrades using R-Core power transformer.
Regards,
Alex |
Islandear, the transport/Audio DSP of these machines is identical. With my mod, there will not be any benefit of modding the 5910, except if there is any major Video processing difference and you really want better video performance.
Regards,
Alex |
Jfz, I am sorry, I am going crazy getting ready for the Show in Las Vegas. I tried the Audio Desk Systeme machine with both CD and SACD. What is does, it brings more detail (from top to bottom), clarity and the soundstage is bigger. I find the performance more live-like. There is a problem though, with Hybrid (dual layer) SACDs, when beveled, you can see where the two layers meet. I am not sure how long a treated Hybrid will last as air might get inbetween the layers and distroy the Hybrid disc. The good part (for me) is that the Hybrid discs Stereo SACD information is stored at the inner side of the disc and the Multichannel information is toward the outer side. So, even if there is some air inside the disc after time it will affect the Multichannel region and not the Stereo region.
Regards,
Alex |
Mikannen, other than the Crystal CS4398 DAC board with Microprocessor control, 0.5db attenuator, phase and filter modes "on the fly", please do not forget the Master Clock, 5 linear power supplies with 2 R-Core transformers and Single Ended TRANSFORMER coupled Class "A" triode output stage.
Happy New Year!
Alex |
Diw and Avguru, there are many reasons why DVD machines are used for mods instead of Stereo ones. First of all, it is not easy to find non DVD based Universal machine. Second, just the DVD based players offer data buffering which is one of the keys for the achieved performance with CD.
It is true that I am disabling the Video and MC capabilities of the 2900, but in the 3910 the Video is preserved and the MC can be preserved or optionally upgraded. There is no space in the 3910 for identical MC mod because I will need 3 tubes and 6 output transformers. As Avguru mentioned, the power supply, clock and some other upgrades improve the MC sound dramatically.
Regards,
Alex |
Avguru, sorry I forgot to answer your other question! The DV-50 mod does not touch MC or Video, they remain intact. The MC in the DV-50 is totally separated circuit. It can be further upgraded for even better sonics. Since the DV-50 uses Pioneer DV-47Ai transport and DSP, it is one of the very rare DVD based universal players to NOT buffer the CD data. It spins the CD 1x, just like a regular CD player. This is something that I do not like at all.
Regards,
Alex |
Luke, I made at least 10 attempts to email you, but it was all returned as undelivarable with permanent error. I actually thought that someone is trying to get me upset...:-)
Please provide valid emai so we can communicate.
Are you sure the Exemplar operates on 240V? If so, John should be installing step down transformer inside as it would be difficult to change the switching power supply to 240V operation. If that is the case, you can always use external step down transformer.
Yes, you can do many things with EM and RF shielding, but I don't think you will need any of that with my machine. My transformer coupled tube stage will not benefit from the x10D buffer either.
Regards,
Alex |
Dbld, I am leaving for Las Vegas in 4 hours from now so I will keep it plain and simple...:-)
The MC in the Denon can be left alone or further upgraded (Op Amps, capacitors, etc) for $150 which brings even better quality.
The extensive power supply upgrades and the Master Clock contribute to better Digital output, better Video and, of course, better overall MC and Stereo performance.
I have just a couple 192/24 discs that I play on regular bases - no problems so far.
Finally, most of the "shootouts" with my machine were done about 5 revisions ago - No Master Clock, DSP and some critical power supply upgrades at that time. Since my 3910 is now completely different sounding machine, it would be quite interesting to hear the opinion of the "Chicago gang" again...:-)...and, of course, as many other opinions as possible. I like to "play the game" with my cards down on the table - face up...:-)
Hey guys, behave while I am gone!!!..:-)
Regards,
Alex |
Thank you all for the support, I appreciate it! I heard some nice setups at the show and must say that all have done great job designing and/or modifying variety of audio equipmnet. I was impressed by Esoteric, EMM and Gryphon rooms. May be the best experience was to see all the nice people I've previously met online to "materialize" at the show - it was great!
I did not have access to email and internet for most of the time so I am sorry I could not answer questions on the board and emails. I was informed about some of the posts here though. I am sorry to see that it got sort of "ugly" here in this thread.
I must say that "mine is best" mentality goes around with just about every designer and/or modifier. It is passion. Of course, I believe that we all can still be friends, keep the good relations and respect. My experiences with Dan, John and Allen were always really nice. They are all great people and very tallented. I wish this is the case with all other designers/modders in the industry.
For those who do not realize it, let me clear up the clouds regarding my "mods" based on the Denon 3910; Although it still remains in the Denon enclosure, this universal player has been completely re-designed. The power supply, Master Clock, DAC and Analog stage are of our own design. The above combination can work with ANY available Digital transport/DSP in the World - Sony, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, Toshiba, Teac, Philips, you name it. It is just a matter of time when we will design a nice enclosure and will put everything in it. With all due respect to all modders in the world, I must say that our 3910 is not a "modded" machine; it is simply APL Hi-Fi Uiversal Digital Player.
Regards,
Alex
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Musicfirst, I made it from the ilness. I am going trough my emails and phone calls slowly but surely. Did we get in touch? If not, please email me.
The 3910 has a slightly better signal processor for the PCM (CD, DVD-A). The difference is subtle. The SACD processing of 3910 and 2900 is identical. The 2900 achieves the same performance as the 3910 when it comes to my re-design (modification). The problem is that I can not preserve the video capabilites of the 2900 due to limited space in its enclosure.
When it comes to why there is a big difference between 2900 and 3910 with other well respected modding companies is because the DACs and PCB layout of the 3910 are much more advanced than the ones used in 2900. As for the actual transports - they are identical.
Regards,
Alex |
Arnold_h, the S version of the DV-50 has some video upgrades. The audio part of the S and non-S is exactly the same. See you email for explanaton why there are so many DV-50 for sale. It is testimonial from former DV-50 owner.
When it comes to the DV-50, as I mentioned before, it is Pioneer DV-47Ai in Teac box. The Teac has their own power supply, Upsampling processor, DACs and Analog stage which of course makes it much better performer than the Pioneer DV-47Ai.
The DV-50 needs master clock circuit capable of providing eight (8) different frequiencies. Installation of Super Clock I, II or III will somewhat help six (6) of these, but not the other two (2) which are essential for CD playback using the Upsampling modes.
Regards,
Alex |
