Efficient speaker: Zu, Tekton, Volti, Klipsch, Fleetwood?

The Devilles seemed to come out of the gate strong but there have been lots for sale. Do they become less interesting over time. Big money for a tiny speakers too. 

The Razz speakers at the 2022 Tampa Audio-Expo sounded engaging, micro and macro dynamic and a thoroughly enjoyable listen.  Paired with the terrific BorderPatrol S20 SET amp, SEi DAC, and Innuos ZENith Music-Server was a blend of equipment that really works terrific together.  One of the most enjoyable rooms I visited.  

Re: Zu Soul 6 -- Steve Guttenberg, as I explained elsewhere here, did a hasty, sloppy review on speakers not fully broken in. And he set up the speakers erroneously before he made the effort to understand them. For a more accurate, informed and thorough third party published assessment, find John Darko's Best of 2021 video review, which he leads with Soul 6. And find & read Srajan Ebean's 6Moons nine pages review published a few weeks ago. If you don't believe me, they will give you a quite decent understand of what to expect. Danny Kaey will also have a review on his Sonic Flare youtube channel, shortly.

Phil

I’ve gone back and forth between Devore and Verity since 2003. Verity seems to have what "I" am looking for in the Otello at 93db. They go down to a real solid 30hz. The presence range is where I feel like some like, Devore, others prefer Verity.

I find Devore’s to be over hyped in the presence region. There is something artificial there to my ears- a loading of the room at a frequency that is annoying. I’m not saying my ears are right- they are for me. Verity sounds a bit more refined and perhaps can be less exciting with some material, but for me better with equal detail for the wide range of music I listen to.

This is just my experience with the Verity PE, Leonore, Otello and some time with the Anniversary and Amadis- They are very dimensional. Devore- 12 years with Nines, 6 months with O/93, time with S9, O96 only at friends. The slim Devore speakers IMO are more dimensional than the wall of sound O’s, which are beautifully organized and more powerful sounding in their own way. It comes down to how we hear IMO, and it’s as different as how we see art.

low325 thanks for the link to the Fleetwood post, that was very helpful

@ladok 

ive written somewhat pro/cons here - another fleetwood deville thread.  The pairing, at the time, was with a gryphon diablo 120…but even before acquiring the speakers, i agonized that i would have to flip my entire system over again (merry go around) for a different type of speaker.  I’m of the house of k.i.s.s. mentality, but i contradict myself with two subs which any non-full ranger needs in my room.

I visited Greg Roberts of Volti and heard the Razz. They are very, very good and the build quality surpasses that of Klipsch by a wide margin.

Vladtheimapler

I read a little book about you.  Are you a great Dad?

Ladok,

The Zu Griewe gap is not difficult to adjust if you follow published directions and start at the reference 1/8" gap. Then you can go through a one-time exercise to get it right for your room and you're done. Devore and Zu are different experiences. Every Devore speaker I've heard has discontinuities between driver behaviors, but they become far easier to discern after hearing the coherence and unity behaviors of Zu. If you like the somewhat "rich," euphonic bass of Devore combined with a crossover constriction in the heart of midrange with a tweeter that is faster than the slow midrange driver, then shy away from the top-to-bottom consistency and coherence of crossoverless Zu. Steve Guttenberg flubbed his Soul 6 review. He did it too hastily, didn't work the Griewe Gap properly and got them (Zu's fault) with insufficient burn-in. He should have blasted them for 2-3 more weeks before doing the review. For more current perspectives on well-burned-in pairs, see John Darko's youtube review, and Srajan Ebean's 6Moons recent review. Both took more care in setup than Guttenberg did.

Soul Supreme is a room-friendly, amp-friendly speaker. The Radian 850 supertweeter is silky and the 16 ohms load makes most solid state amps sound cleaner and more musical than lower impedance speakers on same amps. If you use a tube amp without 16 ohm outputs or a SS amp of low power, you can use 25ohm parallel resistors at the speaker inputs to get a net load of ~8ohms.

Soul 6 is vivid, dispersive, room-filling, bass-impressing, despite its smaller size. The main driver and concentric supertweeter have a larger cone of dispersion, and the driver is energetically quick and percussive. The okoume cabinet with underlying superstructure is a champ at energy management and lightweight to boot. Soul 6 is easily the most coherent, unity-behaviors speaker in its price class, but this industry has trained customers to like a lot of low-unity speaker designs, so depending on your frame of reference, you might have to give a Soul 6 or even a Soul Supreme some time for you own mind to acclimate to holistic, phase-coherent sound, or you might love it right off the bat. Or you might not get there and reject it. That's why Zu gives you 2 months to find out. Soul 6 is easy to lift, pack up and return. You can do it all by yourself.

If you happen to be in Los Angeles, you can hear them on my systems.

Phil

Again, Thanks for your help

Tone Audio in SFO should be able to provide the dimension.  Im  thinking about calling them in the AM

Thanks

PS: Good luck with the move

Brad

I use bananas, although I do recall using spades when I first got them and didn't notice and problems. I have the speakers boxed up right now as we are preparing to move, so I can't measure the space.

@Ladok 

Thank You for taking the time to describe your room dimensions, seating position, ect.  That info is very helpful. One thing I noticed, that has me concerned, is the lack of space between binding post on the Super 9's. The positive and negative post appear to be very close to one another.  Do you or have you used spade terminations?

I have Cardas Clear Lite S/wires.  The spade OD are 1/2" wide X 1/4" ID. Do you think they would fit ok?  If I have done the math correctly; I would need 3/8 of an inch gap between the post.  That would leave about 1/8 of an ich gap between the two spades when connected to the terminal post.

Thanks again

Brad  

The O96s that @tubebuffer mentioned sold in one day despite prior delivery by Bender at Planet Express.

They were located right around the corner from me, and I've got to admit I was tempted as I ponder my chances of moving to a space too small to keep the beloved Soundlabs. First world problems! Cheers,

Spencer

I would guess the same weaknesses of the DeVores (If you feel they exist):

1. Very sensitive: Any noise in your system will be more apparent.

2. Revealing: Any changes like interconnects will reveal differences more, poor recordings will sound poor, great recordings will sound great

3. Myself, never enough bass. Unless one gets a speaker with a big honkin' 12-15 woofer, I will always want more bass. That is why I run a sub. I could have $100,000+ Wilsons and would add a sub. It's not just a ZU thing. 

Hi Bradf. My current room is 19 by 15, I found the Super 9s sound best along the long wall, about 31-37 inches from the back wall (to the back of the speaker). They are 7 feet apart which means there's lots of space on the sides, and I found it helps to keep each speaker a different distance from the side wall to help balance out room bass nodes. My ears are about 9 feet from the plan of each speaker. Your room should be a great size for the Super 9s, they are not difficult to place. Also, most reviewers found they sound best firing straight ahead instead of toe-in, I tend to agree, but it's fun to experiment.

Thanks tsushima. I've been "up" the Devore line and my favorite is the Super 9, which I plan to keep. What is it about the Zu sound that attracts you? What would you say are the weaknesses?

There is pair 096 on audimart but look like they get in fight with axe murder.

From your original list OP

1. Zu Soul Supreme / Stay with Devore

2. Volti Razz

3. Klipsch Forte IV

4. Fleetwood Deville

101. Tekton Lore ( give the drivers away to someone you dont like and use it as a    canoe)

I’m a ZU Omen Def owner for the past 10 years and love them. I will buy from ZU again. However, the thing about buying speakers without listening is that it is a pain to return ship the big heavy boxes. Free return shipping or not. I have actually read where people have talked themselves into liking components only to not bother with returning. Although I am a ZU fan, if you already like the Devore’s sound, you may just want to move up their line to play it safe. Or at least choose from what dealer's have in your area

Greg at Volti used to do a little demo that was based on his work fixing older KHorns.  He would just speak through one of the KHorn assemblies and then speak through one of his versions.  It was a pretty startling comparison, the original sounded like his voice was coming out of a tunnel while his improved version sounds like his voice.  I owned a pair of Forte IIIs and actually traded them to Greg as part of my original purchase of the Razz.  He likes the Forte IIIs, as did I--but the Razz are clearly better and the Rivals are better yet.

That said, think the corner horns are really cool if you have the room set up and the space for them, but I imagine lots of folks don't.  I've got some big spaces in my home, but not two corners that would work in any room big enough to accommodate them--at least not if I want to stay married! 

For a large room if you have corners available Corner Horns are fantastic and on the used market a real steal.  The other bonus is they are out of your living space but fill the whole room with sound.  If you want more Volti has a driver / crossover update that makes them supposedly better.  I bought a pair on the cheap thinking I would perform the update but after I got them in the room I can't convince myself that the extra money is required.

@ladok If you are seriously looking at the Zu stuff, I would use a little caution.  As mentioned elsewhere, people either love them or hate them.  I've only heard them at shows and as much as I want to like them, I never do.  I am going to hear a pair with some really nice amplification in the next couple of weeks and am anxious to hear a pair well set up and not at a show.  Hope I hear what everyone loves about them.  The moral of the story is to make sure you hear these before taking the plunge on them.

@ladok 

Hi,

I'm still in the process of researching speakers.  Just wondering how far you find it to have your Super Nines out from the front and side walls. Also, how far away do you sit from your speakers.

To give you an idea of my room; the speakers are 56", front baffle to front wall. 7' apart, center to center. 4' center to side wall.  My seat is approx 10' from the front baffle of the speakers. of course if I move the speaker closer to the front wall, this would alow for a greater distance between my seat and the speaker fronts. The room is 15' X 13', but opens up in back of my seating position to a 15' X 17' kitchen.  This is a multi-purpose room, so there are furnishings to contend with.

Thanks for your help and time 

Brad

I'm not familiar with Charney, either.  Their website (assuming charneyaudio.com is correct) appears to be dead.

Thanks low325. What do you like about the Deville?

I have Fleetwood Deville paired with a Bakoon AMP-51R.  Gorgeous pairing imo. 

Thanks for the advice, 213cobra. I am still considering the Soul Supreme, the WAF is high and I've always wanted to try Zu. I'm a little hesitant, though, because out of all the speakers on my list, these seem to have the most "personality" and folks either love them or hate them. I usually enjoy Steve Guttenberg's YouTube reviews, but his description of the Soul 6 made me think he either had them set up wrong or they weren't broken in. I guess by the Griewe Gap, you're referring to the space between the bottom of the speaker and the floor. That seems like it would be a real pain in the ass to have to adjust.

Thanks for the advice fosolitude. I am leaning towards Volti and Fleetwood Deville. I used to have the Devore 96, it made music seem more physical and present than anything I've ever had but was too large for my room, so I went to the Super 9s, which are perfect. I will check out Charney, that is new to me.

I just completed a search like yours. I listened to Fyne and Tannoys and didn't like them (others do so make your own judgments), both had bass that semmed too polite. I liked Klipsch, Audio Note and DeVore 96, probably would have been happy with any of them. Better still, I thought, was Volti which is a kind of Klipsch made with better materials. I bought a pair of Charney companions and I don't think I'd have liked any of the others so much as these. I had originally heard them at the Capital Audio Fest three or four years ago and it struck me how real it sounded and how it communicated the emotional aspects of the music. Detail, imaging, palpability and feeling are what I wanted and after spending a fair amount of time auditioning speakers, it turns out I was right the first time.

Zu Soul Supreme can fill your space, despite its size, but Soul 6 will do an even better job, yet it's even more compact. Soul 6, due to using the newer coax driver and the stiff & relatively lightweight cabinet better limiting energy dissipation in the structure, has explosive projection, more spread than Soul Supreme, and it goes deeper once you have the Griewe Gap correctly set for your room. You can get it in 12 colors. WAF tends to be very high.

Equally useful in your room, though with a larger visual presence, is the Omen Def Supreme. It has most of the non-subwoofer benefits of the Definition 4, at much less expense. The dual FRD arrangement further improves horizontal dispersion while limiting floor and ceiling effects. It's a great speaker for dual-purpose cinema / hifi systems.

This assumes you want to stay well under $10,000. Druid 6 equally applies, and in Zu's iconic form factor. Definition 6 is coming. But in the central range of affordability, the Souls and ODS will do a great job for your space and objectives. They are all amp-friendly and room-adaptive, having Griewe internals.

Phil

trentmemphis I agree that the Tektons are very plain looking. Cornwalls won't be necessary because we won't be listening at loud levels (mostly background levels), and the WAF isn't too great with those, either, due to the wide, squat appearance. But thanks for the input.

I can't speak to the options in your list, except to say:

1. In a room that size, you're probably talking about Cornwalls rather than Fortes.
2. I have serious doubts about the WAF on anything I've seen from Tekton.  Whatever their auditory strengths may be, visually they really don't belong in any room above man cave level.  Maybe college apartment level.  (No offense meant, Tekton owners.  If you love 'em, you love 'em.  No justification needed.)

I have Avantgrade Duos and Trios, also an Acapella Poseidon, and drive them with a 6wpc, as flat of impedance as you can get.

I listen to the Uno and they are incredible, and as efficient as the big brothers.

when I listen to the Uno and compared with the Tannoy Kensington I own, it makes me regret that I did not buy a pair and and shipped them to my home in the USA.

now there is a dealer in the USA, they are worth a look.

  I've run Tekton with tubes and First Watt (J2), they are efficient and sound very good, not very attractive (subjective). I was overall very pleased with Enzo. However, I have since moved on to open baffle. I prefer the sound of OB speakers and I am very happy with Spatial Audio (need few feet min. from wall though).

@ladok 

Here are a few ideas, based *solely* on sensitivity specs, and that haven’t already been mentioned above (I have no experience with any of them - it’s just a list of makers)

Avantgarde - Zero model

Coherent

Cube Audio

Fern & Roby

Goodwin 

Joseph Crowe

NSMT Loudspeakers

Odeon Audio

Simon Mears Audio

Trenner & Friedl

Tune Audio

Please keep us posted on ideas that you think of, it’s great to know about other potential alternatives

Audio Note speakers , anywhere from 90dB to 98dB Sensitivity depending on model and version.

I have been happy with my ZU omen defs for about 10 years. I am thinking of trying the new, updated version

@fleschler Im in the valley as well 

Never heard the Volti’s, however the Klipsch Cornwall IV have Zero issues regarding a “Cupped Hands” coloration....

YMMV....

I heard it less on Volti than on many other horns I've heard.  I prefer dynamic speakers.   I intend to audition the Botticelli planars.   L.A. audio show was cancelled so again, I cannot hear some of the speakers I wanted to hear most unless I go to a showroom or manufacturer (Von Schweikert), 140 and 90 miles away.  I'm at the northwest San Fernando Valley.  Evolution Acoustics are even further (Portland).  

You need to find out if cupped hands coloration effects you - I hear it on many horns like Volti. 
 

@csggolf My friends and I also heard the Rivals at Los Angeles area shows with them set on the long wall.   Unusual that we sat for 30 minutes listening to various types of music since we generally dislike horn speakers.   It was the most engaging horn speaker without a horn colored sound.  I liked them more than Avante Garde trios.   Very easy to listen to and enjoy, without exotic or expensive amps to drive them.

@ladok 

A couple of high sensitivity speakers that I don't remember being mentioned here.

Haven't heard either, but some good reviews on both.

Vaughn Loudspeakers Products

Coherent Audio Loudspeakers (coherentspeakers.net)

Brad

So I was going to buy the Lores or the Perfect sets and Eric talke me into the Enzo XLs wish I wish he didnt .  They are missing something to me .  Accurate but lacking a bit.  I would have stepped up to Perfect Set or Perfect Set 2-10  or even Double Inpact.  Was driving those with 20watt 300B amp but also since added Willenston R8 with NOS tube upgrades.  Anway that amp is killer with the Tube upgrades .  I also have a pair for Forte IVs because the Tektons werent getting me where i wanted. Now I have the sound I want but wish i could fit the Cornwalls in that spot.  Speak about accuracy in vocals, phrasing, percussion  WOW!    If you can fit the Cornwalls get them.  The Fortes will work amazingly just off the wall in the room you are speaking to but step up if you can.  

Pulled this directly from Eric’s ad copy posted on this site today:

“THIS IS THE REAL DEAL FOLKS!! This is technology news! U.S. patent 9247339 simply claims all speakers designed to date (no matter the price) have subtle shortcomings and flaws and that they cannot accurately reproduce the overtones and harmonics musical instruments produce and the information contained within audio recordings, i.e., your favorite music or soundtrack. In short: all modern loudspeakers no matter the price miss out on producing the percussive element contained in music.”

Can someone explain the stated relationship between proper reproduction of “overtones and harmonics” and “the percussive element contained in music”? This is offered as the key technological advancement that distinguishes Tekton from other brands the OP is considering.

@facten The room is basically 13'x23'.  They will be set up on the short wall about 6' into the room.

When I heard the Volti Rival and Razz at consecutive Axpona shows, they were set up on the long wall and not very far out from the wall. Almost certainly less than 2 feet and in both cases they sounded good to me.

Thanks badgerdms, that's very helpful information.