Does raising speaker cables off the floor really make a big difference?
jnorris2005 I can’t believe the ghost of Enid Lumley is still with us. That woman has done more to advance the snake oil industry than anyone else. I remember her going on about the audio qualities of different kinds of shellac on floors. I still have many of the Absolute Sound issues where she writes in. >>>>Enid may have been slow but she was ahead of you. |
Instead of a discussion, it takes it's usual tack and becomes open mike night, again. All the negative comments gloss over the fact that all of this can be done on the cheap and anyone can try it. Red herrings abound as valid points and dog piling ensues. Carry on my tin eared friends There's no peace when you are done Close your mind to how things sound You'll still cry all the more👍 All the best, Nonoise |
I say show me the measurement. NOT a subjective impossible to quantify.. "my ears or my ear "training" or my sense of hearing are more evolved an better than yours" like most claim. Careful waving around demands like that. Asking an audiophile who tests claims purely subjectively to show objective evidence is like raising a cross to a vampire ;-) (Especially many of the tweak-manufacturers, where you get pseudo-scientific sounding descriptions in the sales pitch, but in place of objective measurable evidence for those claims, you tend to get marketing and anecdotes. Which makes business sense, given the rich market resource they have of largely subjectivity-oriented audiophiles whose methods of 'testing' the claims allow for all the bias necessary to hear what the marketing pitch suggests. And I count myself among those who have been influenced this way). |
Vibration is part of music, or is in fact what music IS really. Since many can't get away from this music thing messing with your cables and components to a degree that causes symptoms of elitism, maple worship, and sad component isolation and cable embarrassment ("Please sir, take me off of this toilet paper roll."), any audio freak worth their status as Esteemed One Who Knows What Clearly You Don't, or EOWKWCYD, should remedy these stultifying issues by simply keeping your components away from music. Leave it off...it still looks great just sitting there...dust it once in a while. |
My vintage 1986 Monster Cables work flawlessly. I don't run them along the floor. They come out of the back of the cabinet at a very slight downward angle. Then they get suspended from push pins with synthetic strings from the wall angling downward towards the speakers. We all know current flows better going downhill.....;-) |
I actually saw a system once where the owner had his $5K speaker cables taped to on-end toilet paper rolls (presumably by now he has special $1000 stands made of some extinct rare wood or mastodon ivory or something). I'm afraid that I laughed out loud (and when he blind A/Bed it I couldn't hear any of the 'immense difference' that he was claiming. |
Come to think about it, I already have a test setup for this baloney. I'm running an 8' pair of Audio Art that have improved the SQ from the previous Tara Labs. One channel is routed on the floor. The other through the floor it and then suspended though joists to the speaker. The phantom center channel is rock solid between my ESLs. It sounds like my Raal ribbon center channel is playing when it's not. I hear and see no reason to suspend the second channel's cable Nuff said. |
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sailboat ... if your ears can hear a change then that MUST MEAN the audio waveform coming out of the speakers has changed ...So, when someone claims big things.. I say show me the measurement. NOT a subjective impossible to quantify..This is a hobbyist's group - not a scientific group - so while you can ask others to do measurements for you, it's not likely that many will comply. Of course, you're free to conduct your own measurements, and then share the results with us. Science. Engineering. Not subjective opinions.This is a hobbyist's group, so opinions are welcome here. |
Seems as though generated a lot of sarcasm, so I'll spare you because I believe you asked your question with a genuine concern. Here is an article you should read from top to bottom. Please google-"Roger Russell/speakerwire" and educate yourself. As a matter of fact all that haven't already read this article should do so. Hope you will find peace on your audio journey. |
sigh. Folks that claim to be engineers.... but who don't actually measure with scientific instruments.... if there is REALLY a change (in some systems there is, in many there is not....lots of complex reasons for this. I will not give you a scholarly education on this. not my job).. if there really is a change.. then it CAN BE MEASURED. If your ears can hear a change then that MUST MEAN the audio waveform coming out of the speakers has changed. If the waveform changes, it can be measured. High end spectrum analyzers can easily resolve audio signals. And are far more sensitive than the human ear. So, when someone claims big things.. I say show me the measurement. NOT a subjective impossible to quantify.. "my ears or my ear "training" or my sense of hearing are more evolved an better than yours" like most claim. Humans are notoriously susceptible to suggestion and creative bias in perceptions. IF YOU CAN HEAR IT, it can be MEASURED. Science. Engineering. Not subjective opinions. Now if you do measure, you will find that for some combinations of cables and equipment.... raising them does help a wee bit. But this is not the case for almost all set ups. There are so many large effects that would need to be fixed first that to get down to the need to raise cables would be fairly low on the list. The effect is very tiny. |
People! Let’s not forget the vibration transmitted by the floor to the cables. Has anyone tried springs under cables or power cords? Hmmmmmm Lots of things in this hobby are invisible! - magnetic fields, electric fields, vibration, acoustic waves, electromagnetic waves, RFI/EMI. Pop quiz: why does external vibration affect the audio signal in cables? Free prize to first correct answer. |
"Does this mostly apply to carpeted floors?" No, every room and every floor has a different sound. When you set cables on that floor the floor becomes part of the dielectric. Some wood floors actually sound nice with the cable sitting on it, but I have found this to be rare. It has a lot to do with how the floor is constructed. Keep this in mind though, according to the 4 fundamental force interactions your cables are affected sometimes up to 15meters away from the physical wire itself for some forces. mg |
I’ve been an audiophile for 30 years and I don’t hear a difference at all. That said, I still raise them off the floor because I know there is static electricity on the floor. (Especially in the dry winter months) My OCD is at ease knowing the cables are safe!!!!! I use a couple of 1” round rubber grommets under them. (Can be found at any hardware store) I drilled a small hole through them and tie wrapped them to the cable so they don’t move. I use custom length 6 foot Transparent “Ultra” cables. ($3600.00). Don’t listen to anyone,,,,,,,,just listen!!!!!!!! Let your own ears be the judge. Or just do it if you have OCD like me!!!!! |
It’s nice to see folks trying things, that’s what it is all about. The listening part of this hobby is based on variables. A system costing less than $5000.00 with the right tools (understood and used) can easily outperform a $100,000.00 without the right tools and experience. In fact many of these setups beat up on the expensive ones even after they (overbuilt systems) are tweak. One reason for this is the amount of mass and materials used that actually cause signal blockage instead of signal freedom. |
@spoutmouzert If I had foil speaker cables, and needed cable elevators, I would use those: http://verastarr.com/cable-elevators/ |
@wyoboy, I took a look at those Ikea tea light holders and they look like they'd be an even better fit for cables than the Yoplait Oui glass jars I'm trying out. That wavy top can hold a cable more securely than the flat top I have, and the bottom is wavy as well, looking like it would dig into a carpet in a better fashion. I'll check them out this weekend. Thanks for the heads up. All the best, Nonoise |
spoutmouzertHere’s a no cost experiment you can do, get you better half to shake them or even lightly hit them with a hammer while your listening, see if you can "honestly" hear anything. Cheers George |
So if one decides to go with cable risers, how long is the break-in period?Not sure if that is snark, but I'll bite. 🦈 For me, the effect was practically immediate. It could be due to the nature of my synthetic carpet, the weather, or more but just using some small glass jars to raise the cables did the trick. I've listened to a few more CDs and love what I'm hearing. No need for fancy stuff. All the best, Nonoise |
@andy2 -- As a matter of curiosity, would you be humbling if you didn’t see any difference? Not sure I follow what you’re after, but I was merely using an example in a presumably related field to show my willingness to accept an effect of cable risers - easy they may be to ridicule. We’re chasing sonic bliss sometimes throwing thousands of dollars after hardware, only to find out that cheap accessories can have a bigger impact. By that I’m not saying hardware upgrades can’t be justified, only that other areas concerning their optimization can have a significant say as well. If, hypothesized, I didn’t experience any pronounced difference in sound using the Ringmat domes I probably wouldn’t have posted.. |
