Having recently purchased an amplifier that I expect would not command the attention it might have a decade or so ago, it leads me to the following observation and question.
While technological innovation in the design and construction of audio equipment continues admirably unabated, I would assert that there are venerable products still being manufactured whose qualities seem to remain not only undiminished but unsurpassed regardless of the "cutting edge" products they are juxtaposed to. I believe that one such product is the Ars-Sonum Filarmonia XP Universum. It is meticulously--in fact, lovingly--constructed. It utilizes high quality components assembled in an effective architecture to produce its modest but robust output of 28 wpc. Most importantly, the sound it produces, in conjunction with the right equipment, can only be described as glorious.
So what I am wondering is whether there are others who agree that the best way to go forward sometimes is to stay deliberately still. And if so, to which pieces of equipment would this thinking apply.
High end audio continues to advance in all tiers. One of my observations has been that really high end stuff tends to remain exceptional for very long periods of time… ten years or more. The other individual issue is how well the product fits your taste. If you have a really good fit, then going around sampling other flavors is going to reveal increased prices and less performance for your tastes.
If on the other hand you are choosing among (and newer / higher tier) other components that are perfectly meeting your tastes you are likely to be really impressed by the progress made..
Finally, my list must include some model of vintage amplifier. For a couple months now I’ve been using a Coda Technologies Model 11, and I’ve been so satisfied -- no, thrilled -- with its performance that I’ve found myself asking: How much better can it get? I’ve paraded expensive amplifiers through the Music Vault for many years, and now, with this 20-something-year-old amp, I’m not missing any of them? What gives? The whole experience has got me thinking about other vintage amps, perhaps with a couple grand invested for new capacitors and a thorough tune-up.
My vintage piece are good and flexible in a way many contemporary are not...Or the price gap is so huge that i dont bother with new because of the S.Q. at my hand right now...
Interesting observation / perspective. It makes some sense… that as performance has increased different sound quality paths have emerged… with greater detail, transparency… etc. different companies have taken different directions. So, yes, in a sense vintage has a flexibility you generally do not get today.
Off the top of my head--Shindo, VAC, Jadis, some McIntosh and HK Citation, etc., have withstood the test of time. A few rare loudspeakers, too--Altec 19, JBL Paragon, maybe Revel Salon/Salon 2 and KEF Reference series. Garrard/Lenco turntables.
And not only that, but some design or technology as it was made specifically with his own set of trade-off for sure exist no more ... My 2 Sansui of the golden age as they are made are exemples but more than those my vintage AKG K340 is unique and absolutely not low grade but among the top headphone even today...
For sure many contemporary technologies innovation improve all there is in Audio.... Specially since few years ago....
Then very good vintage exist but it is an exception not a rule... Also there are risks about maintenance of old gear...
Nothing is perfect here ...
Give me the 10,000 dollars i will buy the Immanis headphone, it will probably beat my K340 (100 bucks) on most acoustic count if not all but i am not even sure for that ...
I am completely happy as you are because as wise gentlemen we had learned as you said yourself to appreciate and evaluate what we have ( in my case i modified it )
Interesting observation / perspective. It makes some sense… that as performance has increased different sound quality paths have emerged… with greater detail, transparency… etc. different companies have taken different directions. So, yes, in a sense vintage has a flexibility you generally do not get today.
If well maintained, high quality older gear tends to buy better sound for the same buck spent on newer gear, and also tends to recoup a higher percentage of the price paid at resale than with new gear too. Old fashioned or prudent?
It depends if you are talking vintage, old design but new parts or new design. Vintage eventually will need parts replaced, esp caps. "Old" design still manufactured with new parts, it is not like they use caps or resistors from 60s.
@mew2150- it’s not black and white, true or false.
There are many facets to this high-end audio hobby beyond simply chasing the latest technology. If’s not good, better, best but rather it’s subjective preferences for different presentations, especially in tube midrange such as Kondo, Shindo, Berning. Vintage turntables are still solid performers, big fan of tricked out Garrand 301. Early electrostats speakers are still sonically competitive within their limited range.
best way to go forward sometimes is to stay deliberately still. (Oxymoron?)
This can be interpreted 2 ways:
1) Sometimes it’s wise to not shop to purchase anymore - this is true
2) Stop in fear that my current purchase will soon be obsolete - this is unwise, unwise to think this way. High end audio, like high tech, will always be improving- the market drives it. Sitting on your hands will not change this. One can try to purchase wisely to minimize component depreciation, like purchasing used. But sitting out you’ll miss the benefit current components can lift your audio chain - a current DAC is “Sonically” more enjoyable “Now” which you’d loose out if doing nothing. Sure your bank would be fuller but if that’s the main concern, you’re in the wrong hobby.
I appreciate the perspectives and insights that were shared by the respondents. I would argue--in accord with some of the views that have been expressed--that there has been an asymptotic approach to live sound. The genius of audio designers and manufacturers has gotten us as close as can be to the "real thing." To get any closer would entail attending a live performance. Reproduced sound can certainly be powerfully palpable, but it remains at best illusory. Once it has hit that limit, the age of the equipment that produces that illusion becomes irrelevant.
Your argument that there is a sonic limit is a baseless claim, it is not a universal truth. It can be “your” personal preference that any incremental changes are not worth it “for you”.
Seems you are on the outside looking in meaning you have not listened to current top gear. High-end audio the sonics are significantly much better and thus much more engaging than box store components. Trying to think box store to reality is all there is to high-end audio is wrong. Audio reproduction is not an exact thing, so there are many sonic flavors/presentations with different components. Only direct listening experience will you understand the differences.
The sonics are so much better and engaging- that’s why we pay a premium above box store prices. To truly understand, I suggest demoing for yourself, best a major audio show like AXPONA. It’s like visiting the beach the first time - it’s more than lots of sky, sand, water - words not enough to describe the experience.
There's any number of reasons or rationals in preferring older
gear...or even the ones that have the qualities that one can simply afford
and still allow the music to come through in the fashion desired.
Having to replace my hearing aids, the price of a decent level of integrated amplifier doesn't seem excessive, and has a major impact on what and how I
precive...
There's the risk of so many levels of tech between the source and the apprehension of the desired result that the discussion becomes moot...
I have a few key pieces to my system that are from different eras. A Thorens 124 turntable designed in the late 50's, a Scott tuner designed in the early 60's, a Revox reel-to-reel tape player from the 70's. It all fits in nicely with contemporary gear that I also enjoy. I found that the turntable and tuner sound better than the more modern designs I was using, so I went to them for an improvement in my musical experience, not nostalgia.
I also have a 60's Scott 299a integrated amp that I think sounds beautiful, but nowhere near as complete a musical experience as my contemporary Zesto electronics. So I would not say that old is always better than new, or vice-versa.
I'm glad it is all still out there for me to try and decide for myself.
A modern SUV can drive circles around a sixties Jaguar E-type, yet the latter provides unmatched, unalloyed driving pleasure (more so if equipped with the early Moss 'box!).
However, and without belaboring the obvious, if your goal is predictable transportation the SUV wins. Yet a good E-type is worth more than a couple new SUVs.
The beauty of the audio world is that not only you can buy 1990-2000's world class gear for a small fraction of the cost of today's best, but depending on what kind of component it is the performance gap may not even be that significant.
It is very easy to become immersed in the idea of equipment and place the Value in the equipment owned and not it’s actual Capability to produce music.
It is also an option to seek out and discover audio equipment that has the attribute that creates a music that is easy to become immersed in.
Equipment capable of immersing one in the music can in my experience be as Old as 70 Years since production.
On my sleeve I wear equipment that creates / produces music that can immerse me in their somewhere.
I really don’t need the latest Fad and Market Speil.
Sound is understood by acoustics and we must experiment in a room for a specific speakers pair and specific biased ears...
If you dont use experiments to tune the ears/speakers/ room then you will not reach optimal good sound, nevermind the gear price ...It is my experience...
There is no Bill Gates royal road to S.Q. without acoustics, mechanicals and electricals controls ...Call that "tweaks" if you want but it is a name which reduce what is a fundamental necessity to a secondary commodity ....I prefer to call them acousticals,mechanicals and electrical embeddings controls devices... It does not necessarily cost much but it ask for experiments...
As is so often the case, the best answer is, "It depends." I am still enjoying my Infinity IRS Beta speaker system - I scrounged up the original receipt today and it's dated 11/30/1990. It has needed a bit of service over the years, including replacing the woofer surrounds and recent repair (and mods) to the xover/servo unit. Given its age, it probably qualifies as "vintage." But it still sounds fantastic and will embarrass many a modern speaker.
The component with the longest continuous use in my system is my McIntosh MR80 tuner, which I bought back on 11/80. Of course, radio isn't what it used to be so it doesn't get nearly the use it did back then. It has also been serviced a few times over the years, but it still performs superbly and I live in a very difficult FM reception area. It would be difficult to improve upon this with a more modern tuner.
I would once again like to thank everyone who responded to my inquiry for their insights and perspectives. I will add a few more comments myself about the Ars-Sonum Filarmonia amp to help explain why I purchased it, age notwithstanding. First and foremost, as I have mentioned already, the sound it produces is glorious. I will add that it is also charming to behold (at least to my eyes). The stainless steel chassis is tastefully understated; the amp employs bespoke hand-wound transformers and other premium parts; it takes inspiration from but (as I understand it with my limited knowledge of electronics) it departs in innovative ways from traditional EL-34 topologies; and it is hand-crafted (in Spain), the latter fact being of particular appeal to me as a professor of Folklore. Finally, Rich Brkich, who is as venerable as the amp itself, stands behind it and made certain that it performed flawlessly before releasing it to to me, no matter how eager I was to to call it my own.
After more than fifty years in this hobby the most important thing that I have learned about it is to trust your own ears over objective testing, and to take audio reviews with a grain of sand, since most are heavily biased for one reason or another. To thine own ears be true 😊
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