Are you also under the impression that when people (or
manufacturers) demo their equipment, they maintain sound pressure levels
between 90-100 Dba. In general this is done in rooms being too small, and
therefore the room will heavily interact with the sound heard in that room.
Often, when you ask to lower the volume, the actual result is better, and –most
likely- provides you with the information you were looking for. So, my question here is, do you also prefer
to listen in the 90-100 dba range? Or do you –like myself- like to listen in
the 70-90 dba sound pressure range? Of course, I’m referring to sound pressure
levels at the listening position, which –in my case- is about 4 meter away from
the speaker.
Keep cranking it until you get the meter reflecting sustained levels at 115 db SPL. If it sounds clear and clean and undistorted (but obviously very loud) then you can be assured the speakers are fully capable.
I’ll pass on that :)
What I stated is that on the basis of my speakers rated (manufacturer specs) sensitivity and power handling capability, they can produce over 115 db. Besides, even if my speakers cannot attain that decibel level, I would still consider them "fully capable" because that level is a bit unrealistic.
Additionally, I live in a coop. I do make an attempt to show some respect towards others. My neighbors already endure the fact that most of time (I listen 3 hours per day) I listen to Grateful Dead, which sounds realistic from a live concert perspective topping off around 95 db, often even lower. On lessor occasions I’ll listen to Nirvana, AC/DC, Deep Purple and a hand full of other select choices that "warrant" playing at louder (compared to many other bands) levels. Even in those cases I’ll top out in the low 100s.
EDIT:
And if I'm not mistaken, 115 db is "dangerous to the health of ones ears" if sustained for an undo length of time.
This needs a new post as opposed to editing my previous post.....
At the moment I’m on my "set break" during my listening session of the incredible Leonard Cohen. Specifically, I’m listening to 7/9/85, Montreux Jazz Festival, Switzerland. Now for those familiar with his music, surely you’d agree that typically, a volume level of 85 db is plenty "realistic".
That said, there are times/occasions where I just get the right "vibe"....
If you want to toe tap, head bob and essentially get up and dance, I’d recommend two songs from this show: "there is a war" and "lover, lover, lover". They sound amazing in the mid 90s (db). Trust me! :)
EDIT:
So the point I'm attempting to make here is that often it's not simply the genre or artist, but the specific song and ones own state-of-mind at the time you're listening that governs the volume control.
Uh, shadorne, trust me, high end speakers do not (rpt not) distort at moderate or higher than moderate levels. Where did you hear that fairy tale? 🧚🏻♀️ Even ordinary speakers, you know, ones that are not junk, don’t distort unless overdriven, which is not what I’m talking about. There is no physical reason why the system, any system, should become unlistenable at moderately high levels. Of course I completely understand that many people are accustomed to the distortion. It’s always been there.
You do realize that I’m very much aware that you’re "following me" throughout the forum from thread-to-thread and post-to-post. Splendid! You could learn something.
I trust you to continue stalking me. You could spice up your posts with a little humor. It wouldn’t kill you.
My senses are pretty good, and I do sense some sincerity and perhaps the offer of the proverbial carrot in your last post, hence the reason I shall respond. It is true that my sense of humor is "different" than most. To an extent, "warped" in fact. I'll consider your advice to spice up my posts, but in all likelihood my written responses would not deviate from my already established norm. I've posted this elsewhere on the forum, but perhaps it needs to be reiterated that "I’m proud to be in the minority".
If you have not tested your speakers at those levels then I am afraid you cannot know through mathematically applying max rated amplifier power (watts) and multiplying that to your speaker sensitivity. Perhaps I was not clear - very few if any speakers can play that loud without excessive distortion.
I can show Soundstage plots where large Wilson and large Magico speakers (hardly low end) that are already distorting at a mere 95 dB SPL.
I do agree with you that -in general- very few speakers will comfortably go much higher than 95 dba, without running into higher distortion. The moment you can see the woofer "working hard" there is a very realistic chance that you are entering higher distortion levels as well. At 95 dba, almost all speakers will show this "working hard", they will have to move a certain volume of air to reach the higher sound pressure levels, so as woofers themselves have a certain mass, they will start to "overshoot (both positive and negative overshoots). This will create distortion. (easy to envision). Manufacturers will try solving this by selecting different materials, stronger magnets, tighter tolerances, adding more woofer units, or a combination go the above. In general this results in higher costs. As I like dynamics, and in general stay below 90 dba, my system is still quite within its "comfort zone". At least you don't see its 16 woofers working yet ;)
I have heard the Tekton Double Impact (not the SE version) at a recent audio show. I really liked what I heard; certainly a great bargain at its price. I bet the SE version sounds even better. I don't recall what amplifier was being used. At 99 db/w, these speakers can be used with very low wattage amps, particularly if the speakers are played at reasonable levels. To me, it is more of a bragging rights kind of thing that a speaker can play at 115 db--I would not want to listen at that kind of level (like owning a road car that can go 220 mph).
While I have stated a preference for tube gear, particularly where one can get by with modest amounts of power, I certainly expect that good solid state gear can be quite satisfying. I have not had that much exposure to Pass amplifiers, but, the First Watt amps I mentioned that I really liked are designed by Nelson Pass. The First Watt gear is aimed at a particular niche market--high efficiency speakers that present an easy load to drive. I like your choice of the lower powered model from Pass' lineup. I once auditioned a 50 watt solid state amp and a much higher-powered model from the same manufacturer (both very similar in design) and preferred the lower power model; it might be use of fewer transistors operating in parallel that made the difference (I hear the same thing with using multiple tubes to achieve higher power output, the result is not good).
Most of the better brands of solid state gear deliver decent performance. There is a sameness to the sound of solid state, including Class D, that makes it actually hard to make a terrible choice. That is not the case with tube gear. There is much more variety in sound with tube gear and that is both good and bad--good if you carefully choose what works with your system and taste (or get lucky), more likely bad if you don't carefully audition and choose wisely. A lot of even "bad" (to me anyway) tube gear will still deliver the rich sound and enveloping soundstage that is the most obvious characteristics of tube gear, and one can easily, at first, miss problems in other areas of performance. It takes more experience finding the right tube gear choice.
I should also mention that, I also like the Ayre brand of solid state electronics. For Class D stuff, I have heard decent sound from Bel Canto amplifiers.
No, it doesn't have to be loud. I listen typically anywhere between 60 and 75 dBs, and it is plenty loud for me. Could I play it louder and as clean (i.e., without distortion) on my system? Sure, but I see little point to it. The fact is that the human ear is a very sensitive organ, and extended exposure to high dBs is likely to result in major damage. As a musician, I have always used hearing protection when gigging and rehearsing ... and, I'll tell you this ... my bandmates who failed to use hearing protection now are hard of hearing. OTOH, I can still enjoy listening at low levels on a great system without causing permanent damage to my ears.
I think we should draw a distinction between what sounds loud, and sound pressure level, as they are two different things. Also, the distortion as written about herein this thread (occurring in speakers as the volume is raised at and above 95db) is occurring in the *higher frequency band* (above 2K) as measured by sound stage. Those higher frequencies aren't necessarily the dominant factor when it comes to SPL.
In other words, I submit to the group that one CAN produce (hypothetical example) 100 db without much if any distortion, AND it may not sound (very) "loud". How so? Simple. Play music whose content is primarily lower frequencies, drums, organ, etc. If vocal and higher frequency sounds are absent, you'll have your high SPL, little if any distortion and it likely wouldn't be perceived as "loud" as if you had played a vocal track and then achieved the 100db on the basis of the vocals.
When I want to evaluate a system, including when critically listening to my own, I like relatively low volumes. If a system can move me with range, speed and detail at lower levels, I feel it is working well for my tastes. Once in a while, I will crank up one piece or another when I am in the mood, and yes that also gives me some information about the quality of the system’s sound. But I don’t think loudness should be necessary for most music, if the system is solid. Besides, I have hearing loss as it is, and I want to keep what I have left so I can keep enjoying it.
I agree with Kumakahn, I like to evaluate a system at low levels. If you need to crank it to get the frequency extremities its not for me as I listen at low levels. One thing I do notice about low level listening is the room plays less of a role as does vibration, so the effectiveness of feet etc. However, tweaks or cable changes etc seem harder to distinguish.
It needs to be as loud as you need it to be, no more and no less. I'm also in the camp that says each type of music and recording can determine what that level should be.
Every recording was mixed and mastered at a certain volume. Good engineers will then check and make sure that the end product holds up at different volumes. That is not always the case, though. To get it to sound right often you need to match the levels used during the mixing and mastering process.
However, in spite of everything, in the end the sweet spot is were the music hits you as right. For me it is usually 80 through 110. Rock and pop is generally louder, jazz in between and folk or singer song writer lower.
In those days (80’s), I would drool over SAE amps driving large Infinity speakers!
That was an awesome system you had back then even by today’s standard - what happened? Where did you go wrong? How can you say you prefer headphones over your own main system?
I can’t say what dB level I consider to be loud, but I am pretty sure it would not exceed 90 dB.
A lot lot of my listening is done after the kids are in bed and with a small house loud volumes are not an option.
One thing that that I have really enjoyed with my new Pathos Classic One mkiii over my previous Yaqin MC-30L or even my Integra 50.1 (with a subwoofer) is the low volume level dynamics. The realism of a kick drum or tympani is fantastic even at low levels with an excellent recording. It’s great at higher volumes as well, of course.
I'm actually surprised how many people admit listening at levels up to 100 or more dba at the listening position. I'm not sure how they measure, but believe me, most speakers won't even go that loud, or if they do, they will distort tremendously, unless the room is very big, or very well acoustically treated, room interaction will spoil the listening experience. Or do we all own huge horn systems, known for their ability to play very loud...or is it more like those car owners, bragging about how fast their cars go? But, on the other hand, for all those who regularly listen way above 100 dba levels, please enjoy the music as you like it...in the end that's what counts I believe. For me that's between 70-90 dba at the listening position, measured with an Extech SPL meter, for others it's between 90-110 dba...(and soon someone will indicate levels of 100-130 dba ;)
Audiogon is for audiophiles that supposedly seek high fidelity. Part of realistic sound reproduction is clear clean dynamic range that equates to real instruments and real live music. SPL is part of what is real about musical instruments.
I am actually surprised how many people here admit to having no real interest in high fidelity. They happily prefer a form of sound reproduction only modestly above that of a good radio in sound level.
I'm not sure how they measure, but believe me, most speakers won't even go that loud, or if they do, they will distort tremendously, unless the room is very big, or very well acoustically treated, room interaction will spoil the listening experience.
"I'm not sure how they measure"
with a SPL meter and numerous SPL charts available on the Internet that serve as a frame of reference.
"but believe me, most speakers won't even go that loud"
Totally and utterly false. There is such a thing as manufacturer specs that can be used to derive the information. That would be in addition to user testimonials by folks like myself that use meters, and have stood next to jack hammers once or twice in their lives. Note I'm speaking of as much as 110db, not 120.
"or if they do, they will distort tremendously"
Depends on the characteristics of the music being played. The distortion - if any is in fact really audible - is at the higher frequencies.
"unless the room is very big, or very well acoustically treated, room interaction will spoil the listening experience"
The venue is always part of the equation and overall presentation of the music. Same for live acts.
So I suppose I'm among those folks who have surprised you, because my system can effortless go to 100db and sound fantastic doing it.
I'm always (practically, not at 2AM in the morning) ready to demo my system to any doubting thomases. I'm in zip 11520. Just PM and we can get the party started. :)
So what max level with an SPL meter did you achieve?
BTW 110 dB is more than 8 times louder than 100...so above 95 db SPL (the max for most speakers at the listening position) it gets very hard very quickly to deliver full dynamic range. (110 dB being 32 times louder than 95 dB)
So what max level with an SPL meter did you achieve?
I'm using a Dawson DSM101N multi-meter, which I realize is by no means a truly scientific exactly perfect measuring device. Also, according to manufacturer specification, it has a range of 40-100db, with .1 db resolution, accuracy ± 3.5%dB at 94dB, 1kHz sine wave. I have read higher than 100db within 2 feet of my speaker drivers, at the midpoint of the speaker cabinet (which in my case is 29 inches off the floor) on a number of occasions. I've read as low as 33db in the early morning hours when all lights are off (but the meter has a backlight), there is no traffic outside, other residents of the building are asleep, etc.
Hitting 100db is easy (with my system), and I typically can hit that level while listening to the drums portion of Grateful Dead performances. Many of the drums songs (stand alone drums, not drums within another song) can be 10 minutes or so long, and often contain very low (below 40Hz) frequencies which also makes achieving 100db easy. I personally like to "feel" bass, not just "hear" it.
The loudest I've recorded on my meter is 107db, during the Nirvana song Breed (from 10/31/91, live at the paramount DVD). In this case I was intentionally attempting to crank the volume for the sake of "checking" how loud it could go, and with whatever clarity or distortion. I maintained that level for nearly the entire song, listening at different spots in the room and measuring SPL at different spots, in particular further away from the speakers. I'm well aware that as distance from the sound source doubles, one could expect a decrease of 6db. This was essentially what I was reading. My PLP is approximately 7 feet of so from the speakers, and at the PLP I was getting readings that were consistent with a 10 db or reduction from the measurement at the speaker.
I also believe my system is capable of even more sound pressure, however, I'm reluctant to play at levels over 100db for any sustained period for various reasons, none of which have to do with system capabilities or sound quality.
If you take the SPL meter while music is playing moderately loud, say average 90 to 95 dB, and measure the SPL in room corners you will notice they are much higher than the average SPL. Around 6-9 dB higher! And there are many other locations in the room where very high sound pressures can be found. Standing waves, first reflections, etc. at room boundaries and out in the 3D space of the room. Maybe even at the listening position, you never know. It’s like having an addition 8 to 20 speakers in the room playing very loud. Anyone see any problem with that? 🙄
Awesome. If that is continuous at 107 dB (not just peaks) at the listening position that is indeed very loud - more than anyone would care to listen for more than a short period. Congrats!
If you take the SPL meter while music is playing moderately loud, say average 90 to 95 dB, and measure the SPL in room corners you will notice they are much higher than the average SPL.
Hello Geoffkait. I shall try measuring in the corners at moderate SPL. In my particular case, the way my listening room "opens up", the only corners I could take a measurement at would be the front wall (behind the speakers). And I have bass traps in those corners. I haven’t measured the SPL anywhere behind my speakers. But as I measure from the front, invariably the SPL is reduced the further away from the speakers I go. But its interesting what you are stating, and I shall attempt some corner readings at my next measurement opportunity.
Awesome. If that is continuous at 107 dB (not just peaks) at the listening position that is indeed very loud - more than anyone would care to listen for more than a short period. Congrats!
Hell shadorne. Yes, that SPL is continuous, however, in fairness it should be noted that (a) I have two speakers firing during music playback, so of course I realize that even though I’m in front of one speaker, some sound from the other is effecting the measurements and (b) one thing which my multi meter lacks is a "hold" feature, whereby it would remain at the top most SPL level. I have to watch it, and it does fluctuate. But the 107db I mentioned in my previous example is easily achievable (with the right source music). And by the way, in the case of Nirvana, most of their music when played very loud makes it somewhat difficult to distinguish distortion from Kurt’s normal vocal intentions :)
EDIT:
By the way, somewhat related.... I never realized how convenient it is to have a an amp with a remote control. In my case, even though I primarily listen in the mid 80’s SPL, often is the case that just a minute or so passage of music within a particular song warrants (in my mind anyway) playing louder/lower with respect to the rest of the song. The remote make it rather convenient to raise/lower even by just a few (5?) db within the same song.
Further @shadorne....
BTW 110 dB is more than 8 times louder than 100...so above 95 db SPL (the max for most speakers at the listening position) it gets very hard very quickly to deliver full dynamic range. (110 dB being 32 times louder than 95 dB)
I’m not sure your statement (quoted immediately above) is accurate. I’ve always been of the understanding that +3db is twice the power, +10db is twice the perceived volume.
By inspection open rooms will not support the pressures that a closed room will. For better or worse.
@geoffkait
Agreed. Of course at some point my room is "closed". My listening environment dimensions are 12ft wide, 35ft long, 8ft feet high ceilings. It’s because I’m in a 7 foot equilaterial triangle that I consider it open with respect to back wall corners. My speakers are about 4 feet from the front wall.
3 dB is twice the volume mathematically
Perception of a doubling in sound depends on the individual as well as the absolute loudness and frequency - so it is not really precise.
@shadorne
I disagree. 3 db is twice the power. 10 db is (approximately) twice the loudness.
I submit the following article (one of many) as proof to my claim
You are welcome to disagree with me and Alexander Graham Bell. Actually this is what is so unique about Audiogon. Audiophiles define a different world in the way they see or hear it. A kind of Twilight zone where normal science does not apply. Fuses, ordinary wires, graphite paste and other sciences from other dimensions all apply here and regular laws of physics are suspended. ;-)
"Expressed as a formula, the intensity of a sound in decibels is 10 log10 (S1/S2), where S1 and S2 are the intensity of the two sounds; i.e., doubling the intensity of a sound means an increase of a little more than 3 dB."
The article I provided indicates (among other text, and significantly more comprehensive than the article you provided):
"you'll see that doubling the sound pressure gives an increase of four in the intensity, so an increase in the sound level of 6 dB, whereas doubling the power increases the intensity by a factor of two, so an increase of 3 dB."
So given your latest post there appears to be no disagreement, or any offense to Rod Serling.
But this is very different than your statement that I disagreed with. You stated, "3 dB is twice the volume mathematically". Can you provide a link to support that (volume, not power)?
I can assure you, physical laws and the work of greats such as
Alexander Graham Bell are not in question here.
I'm afraid that my old and industrial ears (61 years old, 40 years or so working on power plants) are still too sensitive to "enjoy" music at levels way above 100 dba. I'm not sure my speakers could do that undistorted, but I also don't really want to try. May be they could, (I doubt it) but if so, it means that for sure they comfortably reach SPL up to 95 dba at listening position, which they do indeed. As stated before, most speakers won't do 107 dba undistorted at the listening position ;) (or may be my speakers are just not up to it, I gladly accept defeat ;)
I think it's really important to listen to speakers like you'll use them. Some speakers are much better at low volumes, others at high volumes, and much of this has to do with their tuning.
Also, room acoustics make a big difference here. Poor room acoustics will not let you turn the volume up. In the mid-treble the speakers will sound too bright or hard. In the bass, too boomy. The room itself will force you to keep the volume down.
Fix your room acoustics, and most speakers will increase their playable range both up and down.
Another point is that I was talking about SPL at the listening position. (in my case 4.0 meter) I now realize that some measure 107 dba at 2 feet. If we measure for example 105 dba at 0.5 meter, we may expect to see about 102 dba at 1.0 meter, or about 99dba at 2 meter, or about 96 dba at 4.0 meter. As I mentioned that I consider 95 dba to be an enjoyable maximum SPL, we are not too far apart after all..... ;)
I did some measuring at my listening position today with some jazz music that is piano, drums, and a bass. I turned it up loud by my standards using an FFT application on my iPhone measured peaks in the mid 80s and the average was probably the user 70s.
I believe that measuring a SPL of let's say 90 dba in a small room is as loud as 90 dba in a big room. (the effort to get to the 90 dba is different of course).
Another point is that I was talking about SPL at the listening position. (in my case 4.0 meter) I now realize that some measure 107 dba at 2 feet.
@han_n
Hello han. Just letting you know that I’m aware that you are referring to sound pressure at the listening position. You clearly stated that as the first post in the thread.
However.....
In a subsequent post you made in this thread, dated 03-04-2018 8:57am, you wrote "....people admit listening at levels up to 100 or more dba at the listening position. I’m not sure how they measure, but believe me, most speakers won’t even go that loud, or if they do, they will distort tremendously...."
I took that to mean that you are now stating that most speakers cannot achieve 100 db without tremendous distortion, irrespective of the listening position. And this is simply not true, despite the Soundstage measurements submitted by shadorne as evidence.
And, I previously responded to rebut the measurements by stating that (a) the distortion is at the high frequency range only and is in fact linear at the lower frequencies, which has substantially greater impact on the ability to produce high sound pressure levels, (b) "tremendous" can be a matter of opinion, and if one believes a 1db deviation from linear is tremendous then that’s okay too, (c) live rock music at high levels also features a degree of distortion and (d) maximum speaker sound pressure level can be inferred from manufacturer specifications of sensitivity and maximum power handling capability. Now if I were to use manufacturer specification applicable to my speakers, Golden Ear Triton Reference, I could conclude that they could produce (approximate) 125db! Of course, I do realize that likely isn't possible (and certainly not practical), however, reducing that number by say 10db (to 115db) I do believe is very doable. And I’m sure there are many other speakers that can produce those levels as well.
The Triton Golden Ear Reference seems to have a linearity problem at quite modest volumes (90 dB). It looks like the AMT ribbon suffers from the problems that have always plagued these designs - lack of ability to produce even modestly high SPL without distortion. Infinity solved this problem by using arrays of the AMT but Triton Ref only has one.
You can see what I mean on these plots from Soundstage particularly the deviation from linearity.
Of note also is the comb filtering of the AMT tweeter above 4KHz - this is due to the fact that the diaphragm is too large to produce these higher frequencies without interference and hence the comb like appearance of the frequency plot (lots of wiggles). The advantage of comb filtering is it can give a pleasing expansive effect - electric guitar players use it all the time to make guitars sound big - it makes it hard for the ear that detect the origin of the sound and will reduce pinpoint Soundstage on a stereo but conversely will make higher frequencies even bigger and expansive.
The Stereophile plots better show the comb filtering. Note that off axis is the first to be affected which is because of the different distance the sound travels from either side of the large (compared to a conventional tweeter) diaphragm of the AMT.
I’m hopeful to have a more technical and comprehensive response to your 03-05-2018 12:34pm post.
However, at face value I see no issue. In fact, the non-linearity data that you are now reporting I previously disclosed.
As I look at the graphs (both 90 and 95 db "Deviation from linearity" charts), I note the left margin in both cases represents decibels, *and the resolution is in 1 db increments*! So yes, you are correct in your observation of the data, but incorrect in your interpretation of the data.
The largest deviation from linearity is not more than 3 db, and this is at roughly - and only - 3500Hz. The linearity is basically flat (less than 1 db deviation) from 50Hz all the way through roughly 2500Hz.
In any case, as I stated, I shall attempt to obtain a response beyond that of my own.
This seems to be yet another case where you are passing judgement solely on the basis of measurement data (instead of considering the sound), as you do with your DAC.
Have you heard the Triton Reference speakers?
EDIT:
By the way shadorne, as I peruse the soundstage site for measurement data of speakers other than the GET T Refs, I note there are none with perfectly flat linearity. For example, the focal sopra 2, which costs a kewl 5 grand more than the T Refs, also has linearity issues - by your criteria. http://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1445:nrc-measurements...
As I promised to obtain a response beyond that of my own, the following comes courtesy of Golden Ear forum moderator..... --------------------- The "non-linearity" he's referring to, and the associated distortion, is extremely low, inaudibly low, and insignificant compared to ALL the other benefits of the HVFR tweeter. Both the magazines that this data comes from LOVED the speakers and said nothing about this insignificant issue in their reporting of the measurements.
Isn’t the assumption that you should demo for the typical SPL that a listerner would hear were she/he attending a live show?
By that standard, MBL (which typically demos louder than anyone else I know of) doesn’t go loud enough. They often play electric blues rock at (my guess) +/- 95 DB. Very loud, but not live loud.
It may not be great for extended audition, but it does demonstrate that the volume levels in your home will likely be limited by the proud new owner’s choice, rather than the speakers’ capabilities.
There are other threads on Audiogon where members report their typical listening levels and IIRC most people are listening at far less than 95dB. Having a system (and room) that is capable of cleanly playing at over 100dB is nice, but it's just not essential for most audiophiles. It is similar to the situation with deep bass. Most audiophiles would be perfectly happy with a system that only played flat down to 55Hz, but did everything else excellently. Are they missing some element of the music -- sure, but that doesn't mean they can't enjoy the music they have.
Why would anyone want true concert level volume in their domestic living space? There's a reason you don't put a concert grand piano in your living room.
I can see now why some things aren't heard in discussions about cables, fuses and tweaks. 😄 I rarely get into the bottom 90s. The sound I get now is so clean at lower dbs and I still feel it in my skin, not to mention the vibrations in my window and all of this in the mid 80s, if not lower.
Accurately reproduced sound at mid levels will still excite surface areas, skin included. Try it with some well recorded piano, guitar, or percussion. If you can't feel it at moderate levels, then something is amiss. It can be subtle, but it's definitely there. Your body, along with your ears, is the perfect barometer. Trust it.
In a subsequent post you made in this thread, dated 03-04-2018 8:57am, you wrote "....people admit listening at levels up to 100 or more dba at the listening position. I’m not sure how they measure, but believe me, most speakers won’t even go that loud, or if they do, they will distort tremendously...."
I took that to mean that you are now stating that most speakers cannot achieve 100 db without tremendous distortion, irrespective of the listening position. And this is simply not true, despite the Soundstage measurements submitted by shadorne as evidence.
You added the word "irrespective". I'm sure you do understand that this is the key here. 100 dba at 2 feet, or 100 dba at -for example- 20 feet DOES differ, and so does the distortion.
Anyway, your speakers seem to be able to go extremely loud (as you claim up to "approximately 125 dba, (however you also agree to take that with a grain of salt), for which you would need a lot of power (possibly 2 Kw or so). I have no reason to doubt that, as you certainly must know better about your speakers. All I can say that I don't think my speakers (partially shown in my profile picture...) even come close to producing such levels, at least not at the listening position, and certainly not undistorted. I even have no intention to try it out as well..... But I can live with that. They provide me with enough listening pleasure, at much lower levels.
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