Does It have to be loud?

@onhwy61 

I agree, but make that "flat down to 35 Hz" 


@nonoise 

100% true.


Happy listening

@gdhal

You will find few if any speakers that Soundstage found capable of true high fidelity at 95 dB and above. We agree on that point.

That said the Vivid Giya G2 performs well - this is an example of high fidelity at higher SPL

https://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=685:nrc-measurements...

As far the definition of Decibel you found it. Sound intensity or volume indeed doubles for roughly each 3dB in SPL which is a mathematical certainty due to the formula. Doubling to the perception of the listener  is whatever it may be. Perception isn’t what you get from SPL measurements using a sound meter.

@shadorne 

You will find few if any speakers that Soundstage found capable of true high fidelity at 95 dB and above. We agree on that point. 

Absolutely, well said. Related to this discussion, purposely I had my system up to 98 dba last weekend, and even though it sounded (thundered) still good, everything was shaking in my room and I became somewhat frightened ;) By the way, I used a cd with organ music for that purpose, frequencies possibly as low as 25Hz or so.

So MAYBE, my speaker system can do it, in my room, with the many acoustic corrections done. It's just that I don't think it is necessary for me to go that loud. So yes, maybe my speakers are capable of producing SPL of up to or even over 100 dba at the listening position, it just doesn't make sense.

You added the word "irrespective". I’m sure you do understand that this is the key here. 100 dba at 2 feet, or 100 dba at -for example- 20 feet DOES differ, and so does the distortion.

Hello @han_n

Not to belabor this, and frankly at this pointy I’m looking to conclude the matter, but you do realize that I didn’t add the word irrespective to your quotation. I used that word in my statement.

Secondly, I agree with you and understand that 100 dba at 2 feet, or 100 dba at 20 feet differs, however, in our examples herein it differs on account of the spl the speaker is producing,  which is typically (manufacturer specs) measured 1 meter from it. So in order to achieve the same db further from the speaker, the speaker needs to be playing louder (emanating more sound pressure). And of course, distortion will increase as the spl increases.

You will find few if any speakers that Soundstage found capable of true high fidelity at 95 dB and above. We agree on that point.

Hello @shadorne

No, we do not agree. I suspect this boils down to what you and I consider "true high fidelity". It seems to me you believe true high fidelity is "scientifically perfect sound reproduction as measured with the most precise device known" as opposed to "this sounds fantastic, authentic and enjoyable".

Depending upon the specific bass design a loudspeaker that is flat to 55Hz could be down 6-12dB at 27Hz.  That would indicate strong bass response into at least the mid 30Hz area.  This might not satisfy classical organ fans, but it would more than cover bass guitar, most synthesizers and bass drum frequencies.

Just to mention when the speaker manufacturer states Sensitivity spec the loudness at one meter in dB is for 1 watt of Power. That is not the speaker’s full capability. The spec is provided to indicate the speaker’s relative sensitivity. And there is no reason to assume speaker distortion will increase significantly when more power than 1 watt is applied - up to some point, obviously. Furthermore, the distortion you hear as more power is applied might not (rpt not) be produced by the speakers per se as I have pointed out before - I.e., comb filter effects from room anomalies (pressure peaks in room corners and elsewhere, slap echo, standing waves as well as other, uh, less understood phenomenon, beyond scope.

+1 @geoffkait

And coming from me that’s a rave! :)

As far the definition of Decibel you found it. Sound intensity or volume indeed doubles for roughly each 3dB in SPL which is a mathematical certainty due to the formula.

Nope!

Shadorne. Apparently you have as much of a problem reading as you do listening. 

In my 03-04-2018 7:00pm post to which you refer, you can note that this article http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/musFAQ.html#add **DOES NOT** include the word "volume" (with respect to doubling every 3db).

You are confusing "intensity" and "volume", believing (incorrectly so) that they are one and the same.

@geoffkait 

I fully agree with your statement "Furthermore, the distortion you hear as more power is applied might not (rpt not) be produced by the speakers per se as I have pointed out before - I.e., comb filter effects from room anomalies (pressure peaks in room corners and elsewhere, slap echo, standing waves as well as other, uh, less understood phenomenon, beyond scope".
Bottom line is that the chances of hearing distortion at higher (95 dba upwards) are simply much higher. That's why I started this discussion. Why would manufacturers, and/or equipment owners seek the higher SPL to demonstrate the abilities of their equipment, whilst when staying under that value you will be able to judge the equipment much better. Also, because usually the rooms used to demonstrate have little or no acoustic treatment. Anyway, after having read the reactions here, there is a clear indication that a vast majority of the people here will stay way under the 95 dba SPL when listening to music. So, hopefully those involved for demonstrating equipment at shows read this as well ;)

@gdhal

I am surprised we cannot agree. To clarify, a speaker that plays to 90 dB SPL before distorting and non-linear behaviour commences is still true high fidelity up to the point it starts distorting. Above that level - well I thought this would be intuitive - the speaker is no longer high fidelity.

As for the Decibel and what is volume level (sound intensity), I guess I leave that to you to decide how you feel these terms are best defined. Your terminology usage and meaning simply does not match normal audio engineering convention and I have no ability to guess what you mean by any of these terms.

None of this is all that important. No offences intended. Disagreement is healthy and that is how we all learn.

This post of mine is rather apropos at this time, and for this particular thread, IMO.

Besides the fact that the new Stereophile Recommended Components issue is out and the Triton Reference is listed in CLASS A - FULL RANGE, and happens to be the **least expensive** member of that very-elite group, by a factor of 2x, consider the following very recent review from Audio Esoterica.

https://www.goldenear.com/images/reviews/Triton_Reference_Audio_Esoterica_Jan%202018.pdf

Among other accolades, read what the article has to say about lack of distortion and also "regularly cracking sound pressure levels of more than 100dBSPL at the listening position".

EDIT:

...No offences intended. Disagreement is healthy and that is how we all learn.

@shadorne

No offense taken, and I appreciate your making it clear none was intended. Additionally, to your point about disagreement being healthy and this is how we can learn, I agree with you completely. Thanks.

When I'm tired I generally listen at lower volume. When I want to "live the music" then I turn up until I find the "sweet or bloom spot"..........where the music comes out of the speakers and forms a sound stage. Every system has a sweet spot. You go beyond the sweet spot and ugly things start showing up...............boom in some frequencies, harshness in the treble and at times your ears can be overwhelmed..........just too much info at too high a volume. Recording levels are all over the place..........generally more modern recording are mastered much "hotter" than older classics so the actual volume control is going to vary. :-)

I attended the Capital Audiofest for the first time last Fall, and most of the systems on display were (IMO) playing way too loud, so loud that the midrange and above were "grainy" sounding, not musical or pleasing at all!  It was like the systems were "shouting" at us.
In some cases, it seemed that the equipment could handle the volume, but it was too loud for the room.
Having said that, some music only "comes to life" when played just above 90db or so, the impact of crescendo from a large symphony orchestra...and of course many rock and roll bands.  But when the system is "blasting", I found you can't hear any of the detail in the recordings, really detracting from musical enjoyment.