Are you also under the impression that when people (or
manufacturers) demo their equipment, they maintain sound pressure levels
between 90-100 Dba. In general this is done in rooms being too small, and
therefore the room will heavily interact with the sound heard in that room.
Often, when you ask to lower the volume, the actual result is better, and –most
likely- provides you with the information you were looking for. So, my question here is, do you also prefer
to listen in the 90-100 dba range? Or do you –like myself- like to listen in
the 70-90 dba sound pressure range? Of course, I’m referring to sound pressure
levels at the listening position, which –in my case- is about 4 meter away from
the speaker.
I attended the Capital Audiofest for the first time last Fall, and most of the systems on display were (IMO) playing way too loud, so loud that the midrange and above were "grainy" sounding, not musical or pleasing at all! It was like the systems were "shouting" at us. In some cases, it seemed that the equipment could handle the volume, but it was too loud for the room. Having said that, some music only "comes to life" when played just above 90db or so, the impact of crescendo from a large symphony orchestra...and of course many rock and roll bands. But when the system is "blasting", I found you can't hear any of the detail in the recordings, really detracting from musical enjoyment.
When I'm tired I generally listen at lower volume. When I want to "live the music" then I turn up until I find the "sweet or bloom spot"..........where the music comes out of the speakers and forms a sound stage. Every system has a sweet spot. You go beyond the sweet spot and ugly things start showing up...............boom in some frequencies, harshness in the treble and at times your ears can be overwhelmed..........just too much info at too high a volume. Recording levels are all over the place..........generally more modern recording are mastered much "hotter" than older classics so the actual volume control is going to vary. :-)
This post of mine is rather apropos at this time, and for this particular thread, IMO.
Besides the fact that the new Stereophile Recommended Components issue is out and the Triton Reference is listed in CLASS A - FULL RANGE, and happens to be the **least expensive** member of that very-elite group, by a factor of 2x, consider the following very recent review from Audio Esoterica.
Among other accolades, read what the article has to say about lack of distortion and also "regularly cracking sound pressure levels of more than 100dBSPL at the listening position".
EDIT:
...No offences intended. Disagreement is healthy and that is how we all learn.
@shadorne
No offense taken, and I appreciate your making it clear none was intended. Additionally, to your point about disagreement being healthy and this is how we can learn, I agree with you completely. Thanks.
I am surprised we cannot agree. To clarify, a speaker that plays to 90 dB SPL before distorting and non-linear behaviour commences is still true high fidelity up to the point it starts distorting. Above that level - well I thought this would be intuitive - the speaker is no longer high fidelity.
As for the Decibel and what is volume level (sound intensity), I guess I leave that to you to decide how you feel these terms are best defined. Your terminology usage and meaning simply does not match normal audio engineering convention and I have no ability to guess what you mean by any of these terms.
None of this is all that important. No offences intended. Disagreement is healthy and that is how we all learn.
I fully agree with your statement "Furthermore, the distortion you hear as more power is applied might not (rpt not) be produced by the speakers per se as I have pointed out before - I.e., comb filter effects from room anomalies (pressure peaks in room corners and elsewhere, slap echo, standing waves as well as other, uh, less understood phenomenon, beyond scope". Bottom line is that the chances of hearing distortion at higher (95 dba upwards) are simply much higher. That's why I started this discussion. Why would manufacturers, and/or equipment owners seek the higher SPL to demonstrate the abilities of their equipment, whilst when staying under that value you will be able to judge the equipment much better. Also, because usually the rooms used to demonstrate have little or no acoustic treatment. Anyway, after having read the reactions here, there is a clear indication that a vast majority of the people here will stay way under the 95 dba SPL when listening to music. So, hopefully those involved for demonstrating equipment at shows read this as well ;)
As far the definition of Decibel you found it. Sound intensity or volume indeed doubles for roughly each 3dB in SPL which is a mathematical certainty due to the formula.
Nope!
Shadorne. Apparently you have as much of a problem reading as you do listening.
In my 03-04-2018 7:00pm post to which you refer, you can note that this article http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/musFAQ.html#add **DOES NOT** include the word "volume" (with respect to doubling every 3db).
You are confusing "intensity" and "volume", believing (incorrectly so) that they are one and the same.
Just to mention when the speaker manufacturer states Sensitivity spec the loudness at one meter in dB is for 1 watt of Power. That is not the speaker’s full capability. The spec is provided to indicate the speaker’s relative sensitivity. And there is no reason to assume speaker distortion will increase significantly when more power than 1 watt is applied - up to some point, obviously. Furthermore, the distortion you hear as more power is applied might not (rpt not) be produced by the speakers per se as I have pointed out before - I.e., comb filter effects from room anomalies (pressure peaks in room corners and elsewhere, slap echo, standing waves as well as other, uh, less understood phenomenon, beyond scope.
Depending upon the specific bass design a loudspeaker that is flat to 55Hz could be down 6-12dB at 27Hz. That would indicate strong bass response into at least the mid 30Hz area. This might not satisfy classical organ fans, but it would more than cover bass guitar, most synthesizers and bass drum frequencies.
You added the word "irrespective". I’m sure you do understand that this is the key here. 100 dba at 2 feet, or 100 dba at -for example- 20 feet DOES differ, and so does the distortion.
Hello @han_n
Not to belabor this, and frankly at this pointy I’m looking to conclude the matter, but you do realize that I didn’t add the word irrespective to your quotation. I used that word in my statement.
Secondly, I agree with you and understand that 100 dba at 2 feet, or 100 dba at 20 feet differs, however, in our examples herein it differs on account of the spl the speaker is producing, which is typically (manufacturer specs) measured 1 meter from it. So in order to achieve the same db further from the speaker, the speaker needs to be playing louder (emanating more sound pressure). And of course, distortion will increase as the spl increases.
You will find few if any speakers that Soundstage found capable of true high fidelity at 95 dB and above. We agree on that point.
Hello @shadorne
No, we do not agree. I suspect this boils down to what you and I consider "true high fidelity". It seems to me you believe true high fidelity is "scientifically perfect sound reproduction as measured with the most precise device known" as opposed to "this sounds fantastic, authentic and enjoyable".
You will find few if any speakers that Soundstage found capable of true high fidelity at 95 dB and above. We agree on that point.
Absolutely, well said. Related to this discussion, purposely I had my system up to 98 dba last weekend, and even though it sounded (thundered) still good, everything was shaking in my room and I became somewhat frightened ;) By the way, I used a cd with organ music for that purpose, frequencies possibly as low as 25Hz or so.
So MAYBE, my speaker system can do it, in my room, with the many acoustic corrections done. It's just that I don't think it is necessary for me to go that loud. So yes, maybe my speakers are capable of producing SPL of up to or even over 100 dba at the listening position, it just doesn't make sense.
As far the definition of Decibel you found it. Sound intensity or volume indeed doubles for roughly each 3dB in SPL which is a mathematical certainty due to the formula. Doubling to the perception of the listener is whatever it may be. Perception isn’t what you get from SPL measurements using a sound meter.
In a subsequent post you made in this thread, dated 03-04-2018 8:57am, you wrote "....people admit listening at levels up to 100 or more dba at the listening position. I’m not sure how they measure, but believe me, most speakers won’t even go that loud, or if they do, they will distort tremendously...."
I took that to mean that you are now stating that most speakers cannot achieve 100 db without tremendous distortion, irrespective of the listening position. And this is simply not true, despite the Soundstage measurements submitted by shadorne as evidence.
You added the word "irrespective". I'm sure you do understand that this is the key here. 100 dba at 2 feet, or 100 dba at -for example- 20 feet DOES differ, and so does the distortion.
Anyway, your speakers seem to be able to go extremely loud (as you claim up to "approximately 125 dba, (however you also agree to take that with a grain of salt), for which you would need a lot of power (possibly 2 Kw or so). I have no reason to doubt that, as you certainly must know better about your speakers. All I can say that I don't think my speakers (partially shown in my profile picture...) even come close to producing such levels, at least not at the listening position, and certainly not undistorted. I even have no intention to try it out as well..... But I can live with that. They provide me with enough listening pleasure, at much lower levels.
I can see now why some things aren't heard in discussions about cables, fuses and tweaks. 😄 I rarely get into the bottom 90s. The sound I get now is so clean at lower dbs and I still feel it in my skin, not to mention the vibrations in my window and all of this in the mid 80s, if not lower.
Accurately reproduced sound at mid levels will still excite surface areas, skin included. Try it with some well recorded piano, guitar, or percussion. If you can't feel it at moderate levels, then something is amiss. It can be subtle, but it's definitely there. Your body, along with your ears, is the perfect barometer. Trust it.
There are other threads on Audiogon where members report their typical listening levels and IIRC most people are listening at far less than 95dB. Having a system (and room) that is capable of cleanly playing at over 100dB is nice, but it's just not essential for most audiophiles. It is similar to the situation with deep bass. Most audiophiles would be perfectly happy with a system that only played flat down to 55Hz, but did everything else excellently. Are they missing some element of the music -- sure, but that doesn't mean they can't enjoy the music they have.
Why would anyone want true concert level volume in their domestic living space? There's a reason you don't put a concert grand piano in your living room.
Isn’t the assumption that you should demo for the typical SPL that a listerner would hear were she/he attending a live show?
By that standard, MBL (which typically demos louder than anyone else I know of) doesn’t go loud enough. They often play electric blues rock at (my guess) +/- 95 DB. Very loud, but not live loud.
It may not be great for extended audition, but it does demonstrate that the volume levels in your home will likely be limited by the proud new owner’s choice, rather than the speakers’ capabilities.
As I promised to obtain a response beyond that of my own, the following comes courtesy of Golden Ear forum moderator..... --------------------- The "non-linearity" he's referring to, and the associated distortion, is extremely low, inaudibly low, and insignificant compared to ALL the other benefits of the HVFR tweeter. Both the magazines that this data comes from LOVED the speakers and said nothing about this insignificant issue in their reporting of the measurements.
I’m hopeful to have a more technical and comprehensive response to your 03-05-2018 12:34pm post.
However, at face value I see no issue. In fact, the non-linearity data that you are now reporting I previously disclosed.
As I look at the graphs (both 90 and 95 db "Deviation from linearity" charts), I note the left margin in both cases represents decibels, *and the resolution is in 1 db increments*! So yes, you are correct in your observation of the data, but incorrect in your interpretation of the data.
The largest deviation from linearity is not more than 3 db, and this is at roughly - and only - 3500Hz. The linearity is basically flat (less than 1 db deviation) from 50Hz all the way through roughly 2500Hz.
In any case, as I stated, I shall attempt to obtain a response beyond that of my own.
This seems to be yet another case where you are passing judgement solely on the basis of measurement data (instead of considering the sound), as you do with your DAC.
Have you heard the Triton Reference speakers?
EDIT:
By the way shadorne, as I peruse the soundstage site for measurement data of speakers other than the GET T Refs, I note there are none with perfectly flat linearity. For example, the focal sopra 2, which costs a kewl 5 grand more than the T Refs, also has linearity issues - by your criteria. http://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1445:nrc-measurements...
The Triton Golden Ear Reference seems to have a linearity problem at quite modest volumes (90 dB). It looks like the AMT ribbon suffers from the problems that have always plagued these designs - lack of ability to produce even modestly high SPL without distortion. Infinity solved this problem by using arrays of the AMT but Triton Ref only has one.
You can see what I mean on these plots from Soundstage particularly the deviation from linearity.
Of note also is the comb filtering of the AMT tweeter above 4KHz - this is due to the fact that the diaphragm is too large to produce these higher frequencies without interference and hence the comb like appearance of the frequency plot (lots of wiggles). The advantage of comb filtering is it can give a pleasing expansive effect - electric guitar players use it all the time to make guitars sound big - it makes it hard for the ear that detect the origin of the sound and will reduce pinpoint Soundstage on a stereo but conversely will make higher frequencies even bigger and expansive.
The Stereophile plots better show the comb filtering. Note that off axis is the first to be affected which is because of the different distance the sound travels from either side of the large (compared to a conventional tweeter) diaphragm of the AMT.
Another point is that I was talking about SPL at the listening position. (in my case 4.0 meter) I now realize that some measure 107 dba at 2 feet.
@han_n
Hello han. Just letting you know that I’m aware that you are referring to sound pressure at the listening position. You clearly stated that as the first post in the thread.
However.....
In a subsequent post you made in this thread, dated 03-04-2018 8:57am, you wrote "....people admit listening at levels up to 100 or more dba at the listening position. I’m not sure how they measure, but believe me, most speakers won’t even go that loud, or if they do, they will distort tremendously...."
I took that to mean that you are now stating that most speakers cannot achieve 100 db without tremendous distortion, irrespective of the listening position. And this is simply not true, despite the Soundstage measurements submitted by shadorne as evidence.
And, I previously responded to rebut the measurements by stating that (a) the distortion is at the high frequency range only and is in fact linear at the lower frequencies, which has substantially greater impact on the ability to produce high sound pressure levels, (b) "tremendous" can be a matter of opinion, and if one believes a 1db deviation from linear is tremendous then that’s okay too, (c) live rock music at high levels also features a degree of distortion and (d) maximum speaker sound pressure level can be inferred from manufacturer specifications of sensitivity and maximum power handling capability. Now if I were to use manufacturer specification applicable to my speakers, Golden Ear Triton Reference, I could conclude that they could produce (approximate) 125db! Of course, I do realize that likely isn't possible (and certainly not practical), however, reducing that number by say 10db (to 115db) I do believe is very doable. And I’m sure there are many other speakers that can produce those levels as well.
I believe that measuring a SPL of let's say 90 dba in a small room is as loud as 90 dba in a big room. (the effort to get to the 90 dba is different of course).
I did some measuring at my listening position today with some jazz music that is piano, drums, and a bass. I turned it up loud by my standards using an FFT application on my iPhone measured peaks in the mid 80s and the average was probably the user 70s.
Another point is that I was talking about SPL at the listening position. (in my case 4.0 meter) I now realize that some measure 107 dba at 2 feet. If we measure for example 105 dba at 0.5 meter, we may expect to see about 102 dba at 1.0 meter, or about 99dba at 2 meter, or about 96 dba at 4.0 meter. As I mentioned that I consider 95 dba to be an enjoyable maximum SPL, we are not too far apart after all..... ;)
I think it's really important to listen to speakers like you'll use them. Some speakers are much better at low volumes, others at high volumes, and much of this has to do with their tuning.
Also, room acoustics make a big difference here. Poor room acoustics will not let you turn the volume up. In the mid-treble the speakers will sound too bright or hard. In the bass, too boomy. The room itself will force you to keep the volume down.
Fix your room acoustics, and most speakers will increase their playable range both up and down.
I'm afraid that my old and industrial ears (61 years old, 40 years or so working on power plants) are still too sensitive to "enjoy" music at levels way above 100 dba. I'm not sure my speakers could do that undistorted, but I also don't really want to try. May be they could, (I doubt it) but if so, it means that for sure they comfortably reach SPL up to 95 dba at listening position, which they do indeed. As stated before, most speakers won't do 107 dba undistorted at the listening position ;) (or may be my speakers are just not up to it, I gladly accept defeat ;)
"Expressed as a formula, the intensity of a sound in decibels is 10 log10 (S1/S2), where S1 and S2 are the intensity of the two sounds; i.e., doubling the intensity of a sound means an increase of a little more than 3 dB."
The article I provided indicates (among other text, and significantly more comprehensive than the article you provided):
"you'll see that doubling the sound pressure gives an increase of four in the intensity, so an increase in the sound level of 6 dB, whereas doubling the power increases the intensity by a factor of two, so an increase of 3 dB."
So given your latest post there appears to be no disagreement, or any offense to Rod Serling.
But this is very different than your statement that I disagreed with. You stated, "3 dB is twice the volume mathematically". Can you provide a link to support that (volume, not power)?
I can assure you, physical laws and the work of greats such as
Alexander Graham Bell are not in question here.
You are welcome to disagree with me and Alexander Graham Bell. Actually this is what is so unique about Audiogon. Audiophiles define a different world in the way they see or hear it. A kind of Twilight zone where normal science does not apply. Fuses, ordinary wires, graphite paste and other sciences from other dimensions all apply here and regular laws of physics are suspended. ;-)
By inspection open rooms will not support the pressures that a closed room will. For better or worse.
@geoffkait
Agreed. Of course at some point my room is "closed". My listening environment dimensions are 12ft wide, 35ft long, 8ft feet high ceilings. It’s because I’m in a 7 foot equilaterial triangle that I consider it open with respect to back wall corners. My speakers are about 4 feet from the front wall.
3 dB is twice the volume mathematically
Perception of a doubling in sound depends on the individual as well as the absolute loudness and frequency - so it is not really precise.
@shadorne
I disagree. 3 db is twice the power. 10 db is (approximately) twice the loudness.
I submit the following article (one of many) as proof to my claim
If you take the SPL meter while music is playing moderately loud, say average 90 to 95 dB, and measure the SPL in room corners you will notice they are much higher than the average SPL.
Hello Geoffkait. I shall try measuring in the corners at moderate SPL. In my particular case, the way my listening room "opens up", the only corners I could take a measurement at would be the front wall (behind the speakers). And I have bass traps in those corners. I haven’t measured the SPL anywhere behind my speakers. But as I measure from the front, invariably the SPL is reduced the further away from the speakers I go. But its interesting what you are stating, and I shall attempt some corner readings at my next measurement opportunity.
Awesome. If that is continuous at 107 dB (not just peaks) at the listening position that is indeed very loud - more than anyone would care to listen for more than a short period. Congrats!
Hell shadorne. Yes, that SPL is continuous, however, in fairness it should be noted that (a) I have two speakers firing during music playback, so of course I realize that even though I’m in front of one speaker, some sound from the other is effecting the measurements and (b) one thing which my multi meter lacks is a "hold" feature, whereby it would remain at the top most SPL level. I have to watch it, and it does fluctuate. But the 107db I mentioned in my previous example is easily achievable (with the right source music). And by the way, in the case of Nirvana, most of their music when played very loud makes it somewhat difficult to distinguish distortion from Kurt’s normal vocal intentions :)
EDIT:
By the way, somewhat related.... I never realized how convenient it is to have a an amp with a remote control. In my case, even though I primarily listen in the mid 80’s SPL, often is the case that just a minute or so passage of music within a particular song warrants (in my mind anyway) playing louder/lower with respect to the rest of the song. The remote make it rather convenient to raise/lower even by just a few (5?) db within the same song.
Further @shadorne....
BTW 110 dB is more than 8 times louder than 100...so above 95 db SPL (the max for most speakers at the listening position) it gets very hard very quickly to deliver full dynamic range. (110 dB being 32 times louder than 95 dB)
I’m not sure your statement (quoted immediately above) is accurate. I’ve always been of the understanding that +3db is twice the power, +10db is twice the perceived volume.
Awesome. If that is continuous at 107 dB (not just peaks) at the listening position that is indeed very loud - more than anyone would care to listen for more than a short period. Congrats!
If you take the SPL meter while music is playing moderately loud, say average 90 to 95 dB, and measure the SPL in room corners you will notice they are much higher than the average SPL. Around 6-9 dB higher! And there are many other locations in the room where very high sound pressures can be found. Standing waves, first reflections, etc. at room boundaries and out in the 3D space of the room. Maybe even at the listening position, you never know. It’s like having an addition 8 to 20 speakers in the room playing very loud. Anyone see any problem with that? 🙄
So what max level with an SPL meter did you achieve?
I'm using a Dawson DSM101N multi-meter, which I realize is by no means a truly scientific exactly perfect measuring device. Also, according to manufacturer specification, it has a range of 40-100db, with .1 db resolution, accuracy ± 3.5%dB at 94dB, 1kHz sine wave. I have read higher than 100db within 2 feet of my speaker drivers, at the midpoint of the speaker cabinet (which in my case is 29 inches off the floor) on a number of occasions. I've read as low as 33db in the early morning hours when all lights are off (but the meter has a backlight), there is no traffic outside, other residents of the building are asleep, etc.
Hitting 100db is easy (with my system), and I typically can hit that level while listening to the drums portion of Grateful Dead performances. Many of the drums songs (stand alone drums, not drums within another song) can be 10 minutes or so long, and often contain very low (below 40Hz) frequencies which also makes achieving 100db easy. I personally like to "feel" bass, not just "hear" it.
The loudest I've recorded on my meter is 107db, during the Nirvana song Breed (from 10/31/91, live at the paramount DVD). In this case I was intentionally attempting to crank the volume for the sake of "checking" how loud it could go, and with whatever clarity or distortion. I maintained that level for nearly the entire song, listening at different spots in the room and measuring SPL at different spots, in particular further away from the speakers. I'm well aware that as distance from the sound source doubles, one could expect a decrease of 6db. This was essentially what I was reading. My PLP is approximately 7 feet of so from the speakers, and at the PLP I was getting readings that were consistent with a 10 db or reduction from the measurement at the speaker.
I also believe my system is capable of even more sound pressure, however, I'm reluctant to play at levels over 100db for any sustained period for various reasons, none of which have to do with system capabilities or sound quality.
So what max level with an SPL meter did you achieve?
BTW 110 dB is more than 8 times louder than 100...so above 95 db SPL (the max for most speakers at the listening position) it gets very hard very quickly to deliver full dynamic range. (110 dB being 32 times louder than 95 dB)
I'm not sure how they measure, but believe me, most speakers won't even go that loud, or if they do, they will distort tremendously, unless the room is very big, or very well acoustically treated, room interaction will spoil the listening experience.
"I'm not sure how they measure"
with a SPL meter and numerous SPL charts available on the Internet that serve as a frame of reference.
"but believe me, most speakers won't even go that loud"
Totally and utterly false. There is such a thing as manufacturer specs that can be used to derive the information. That would be in addition to user testimonials by folks like myself that use meters, and have stood next to jack hammers once or twice in their lives. Note I'm speaking of as much as 110db, not 120.
"or if they do, they will distort tremendously"
Depends on the characteristics of the music being played. The distortion - if any is in fact really audible - is at the higher frequencies.
"unless the room is very big, or very well acoustically treated, room interaction will spoil the listening experience"
The venue is always part of the equation and overall presentation of the music. Same for live acts.
So I suppose I'm among those folks who have surprised you, because my system can effortless go to 100db and sound fantastic doing it.
I'm always (practically, not at 2AM in the morning) ready to demo my system to any doubting thomases. I'm in zip 11520. Just PM and we can get the party started. :)
Audiogon is for audiophiles that supposedly seek high fidelity. Part of realistic sound reproduction is clear clean dynamic range that equates to real instruments and real live music. SPL is part of what is real about musical instruments.
I am actually surprised how many people here admit to having no real interest in high fidelity. They happily prefer a form of sound reproduction only modestly above that of a good radio in sound level.
I'm actually surprised how many people admit listening at levels up to 100 or more dba at the listening position. I'm not sure how they measure, but believe me, most speakers won't even go that loud, or if they do, they will distort tremendously, unless the room is very big, or very well acoustically treated, room interaction will spoil the listening experience. Or do we all own huge horn systems, known for their ability to play very loud...or is it more like those car owners, bragging about how fast their cars go? But, on the other hand, for all those who regularly listen way above 100 dba levels, please enjoy the music as you like it...in the end that's what counts I believe. For me that's between 70-90 dba at the listening position, measured with an Extech SPL meter, for others it's between 90-110 dba...(and soon someone will indicate levels of 100-130 dba ;)
I can’t say what dB level I consider to be loud, but I am pretty sure it would not exceed 90 dB.
A lot lot of my listening is done after the kids are in bed and with a small house loud volumes are not an option.
One thing that that I have really enjoyed with my new Pathos Classic One mkiii over my previous Yaqin MC-30L or even my Integra 50.1 (with a subwoofer) is the low volume level dynamics. The realism of a kick drum or tympani is fantastic even at low levels with an excellent recording. It’s great at higher volumes as well, of course.
In those days (80’s), I would drool over SAE amps driving large Infinity speakers!
That was an awesome system you had back then even by today’s standard - what happened? Where did you go wrong? How can you say you prefer headphones over your own main system?
It needs to be as loud as you need it to be, no more and no less. I'm also in the camp that says each type of music and recording can determine what that level should be.
Every recording was mixed and mastered at a certain volume. Good engineers will then check and make sure that the end product holds up at different volumes. That is not always the case, though. To get it to sound right often you need to match the levels used during the mixing and mastering process.
However, in spite of everything, in the end the sweet spot is were the music hits you as right. For me it is usually 80 through 110. Rock and pop is generally louder, jazz in between and folk or singer song writer lower.
I agree with Kumakahn, I like to evaluate a system at low levels. If you need to crank it to get the frequency extremities its not for me as I listen at low levels. One thing I do notice about low level listening is the room plays less of a role as does vibration, so the effectiveness of feet etc. However, tweaks or cable changes etc seem harder to distinguish.
When I want to evaluate a system, including when critically listening to my own, I like relatively low volumes. If a system can move me with range, speed and detail at lower levels, I feel it is working well for my tastes. Once in a while, I will crank up one piece or another when I am in the mood, and yes that also gives me some information about the quality of the system’s sound. But I don’t think loudness should be necessary for most music, if the system is solid. Besides, I have hearing loss as it is, and I want to keep what I have left so I can keep enjoying it.
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