dissapointed - new LS50w's vs old PioneerFS52's/Luxman R113 - so far Kef's not so great?
windows pc system, listened an hour thus far, the Kef's are sitting on top of the Pioneers, straddling a computer desk, at the moment Kef's are usb connected and the luxman feeds into the pc via 3.5mm so I can kind of a/b I plan on getting iso acoustic pucks soon
gotta say quite underwhelmed thus far, maybe a touch more clarity and imaging from kefs, slightly crisper highs bass is not really close much better on the pioneers
I've played around with the app just a bit, guessing the kefs need break in also? getting swan m300's next but not before I'm sure I've given the kefs a thorough workout over a few hundred hours thoughts/advice?
They need quite a bit of time to break in. The mellow out a bit, which is needed. The passives had zero bass and really no slam in my modest set-up but they imaged like crazy and some female vocals would send shivers up my spine. I could see how people could be underwhelmed with the Passives, especially on low to mid hifi front ends. I got rid of them because the LS50W’s had so much more bass and I thought I’d like the app. I didn’t. The app is awful and I always wondered if the electronics would go out and then what would you do?
That being said, New Ls50W’s with an extended warranty (5years on electronics?), a bluesound node 2i in order to bypass Kefs crappy app, and 2 10” or 12” subs sounds absolutely outstanding. Both a friend and my brother are running LS50W’s on isoacoustics on top of solid, sand filled metal stands, in conjunction with 2 Rel T9i subs and everyone who hears their systems are floored.
Set-up, break in, placement are all key in any system. I ran my LS50’s straight for 200-300 hours before they relaxed. In my room they sounded best far apart and with very little toe in. I had Dynaudio Xeo 6’s after and preferred them even though they were limited to 16/44 and didn’t have the detail of the LS50W’s.
Although not my cup of tea, there is nothing wrong with the LS50W other than the apps. The bass is deep and full and they offer quasi-room placement compensation. Given the description:
the Kef’s are sitting on top of the Pioneers, straddling a computer desk,
it’s no wonder they don’t sound good, especially the bass. I’ve owned the passives for three years. They want to be affixed to the stand’s plate and ideally a very heavy stand (mine are filled with dried sand). How else are you going to get the most out of a small speaker if it’s moving around? Without question, the passives need a sub. The Ws not so much. I’ve heard them many times and demoed them extensively in multiple size rooms. As mentioned by others they need a bit of time.
some really good advice on this thread, thanks everyone they've gone back to the store obviously I didn't get full break in, but I experimented with the setup exhaustively and ran enough music through them to know that I don't like them mostly due to tonality, not my flavour I also think there are some serious limitations to these speakers and that they're highly overrated
without the above feedback from everyone I would have probably continued on with frustration past the return period and likely sell for half what I paid as these things are everywhere on the used market thanks again all
@ audiocanadaHave the LS50 passive and they need a break in period of 200-300 hours.Have made some heavy trapezoid concrete stands for the Kef's. Have had them powered with a variety of amplifiers ranging from a Nait 5, NAD 3020, darTZeel, Wyetech Topaz 211 and a Classe DR-3b. The speaker is a keeper in my books. You are welcome to stop by for a listen. The LS50 are a good speaker which reveal any shortcoming of the upfront gear.
I heard the Kef Blade 2 the flagship speakers and I can't say I was impressed , they have a unique sound signature which overshadow the recording and their bass was completely unstable sometimes to week sometimes too overhang .
I think people read the class a rating of the speakers and expect more than a single 51/2" woofer in a small box is going to be able to deliver. Toe in with uniq drivers is also critical with regard to distance from side walls and room treatments.
I've owned KEF LS50s for several years and found that they are quite sensitive to the equipment they're partnered with. Impedance drops below 4 ohms at low frequencies and you need an amp with good current capability to hear them at their best. If you have room problems (wall reflections, etc.), you will definitely hear them with the LS50s, but that's true of most highly-resolving speakers. As with most small standmount speakers, a good subwoofer is required for bass response below 50Hz.
For me, they offer a musical experience that is unmatched at their price point.
P.S. An advice: Let them break-in and don't do the A/B comparison all the time. Play various genres of music for about a week, then you will be able to build your opinion and possibly appreciation of the speakers.
Then play your old setup for a day or two and you will notice either why they are better overall or notice their drawbacks against a more neutral and honest speaker. A flat response speaker will always lose in A/B comparison to a one that is colored to excite on first hear, just like those TV sets in a store with maxed contrast and backlight. Bring it home with those settings and you will get blind.
I own the LS50s (passives), feed them with 60w per channel and mate them with a sub in a room that is too big for them alone w/out a sub. It took about two-three weeks for me to break-in the speakers. But they never sounded harsh, boxy or unrefined in any way during the break-in process. After the break-in, I noticed they opened-up significantly, the sound became more transparent and I could more easily discern the quality of the records. A change in amp is very detectable on these speakers. Overall, they are very neutral, honest and smooth speakers. Before these speaker I was a non-believer in break-in, but these are really such speakers that the transformation is very noticeable. Then I wanted to go u/g to the LS50w. I heard them on High-end audio in Munich, they sounded very nice with vocals, but I noticed the boxyness. Second time I heard a pair right out of the box with zero break-in and they sounded very muffled and boxy. I decided not to upgrade.
@audiocanada I would get some isoacoustic stands to place on the desk with the speakers on top of them. I had the LS50s (not LS50W) like that and it was a nice improvement. I know the wireless has DSP but raising of the desktop should make the DSP even better. BTW the isoacoustics were built by some guy at the CBC for studio monitors.
@pokey77 you can get by using the passive LS50's with a $1000 used Peachtree Nova 150 integrated. I think I have the best room for the LS50s. It is small and treated with enough power. Sounds like the rave reviews people write about. I have tried them with separates and it was better (an all Benchmark electronics) but for 1/5th the price the Peachtree was what Darko describes on his web site, an excellent combo.
Didn’t have any bad experience with the tweeter. Actually raised the high frequency level through ARC while I felt the LS50W had too fast roll-off in the highs in my room at a listening distance of 3,5 meters. Otherwise confirm reven6e findings. Naturally this is not a speaker to play very loud.
I had both the active and passive on home demo, both broken in by the dealer. Didn’t like either.
First of all cabinet resonance. Boxy sound. Very obvious. Treble. Metallic, raw, unrefined, reminding me of the first CD boomboxes. They also sound a bit mechanical, artificial, digital. Warm midrange but muddled because of bass interference.
The way I got them to sound reasonable: subwoofer, crossover at 70Hz if I remember well. Some room EQ in the app. Much better midrange, good bass this time around and treble sounding a tad warmer. But the box coloration and unrefined treble were still a deal breaker.
I managed to get slightly better results with the passive version and some Dirac which tamed some of the cabinet sound and bass / midrange issues. But the tweeter is still a cheap and nasty affair that completely ruins the experience.
No speaker sound ok in a room without room correction. Certainly not if they are standing on a desk and you are sitting close. You will experience this if you put e.g. a Martinlogan Unison in your source chain (ARC room correction - probably the best for small money). The LS50W will shine then. They do need separate subs though. They have nothing of interest to show you below 100Hz. I’m saying this out of experience. Actually I had them sound so good that I’m looking at adding a Ref 3 or Ref 5 to the collection. Very natural. My reference is the ATC 150 ASL
may be GIGO.... you didn’t name your source solution. I ran the wired version of the LS50’s and found them quite resolving but if your source detail is mediocre you wont hear what you paid for. They are picky about room placement for bass because they are a ported speaker and won't please a bass head because the driver is too small for bass drum and fender guitar bass playback
The ls50s do what they do very well (very lifelike detail and coherency) but are small and thereby necessarily limited. Not designed for larger rooms. Yes they also require some muscle to be driven well. They will not shine otherwise and will likely sound downright underwhelming in larger rooms. Even in a smaller room a sub is needed for bass extension. I suspect many have bought these based on the deserved rave reviews and but with unrealistic expectations.
Have not heard those Pioneers but they are larger and likely not as challenging to drive so would not surprise me if they perform well with lesser amps but I would expect a much different sound that some might prefer especially in a larger room.
+1 twoleftears I really don't get this speaker and I've owned KEFs in the past. They sound like they are out of phase to me and I've heard them with real power in a decent room. Not familiar with the W ones.
Unless the 'W' above is a mistake, the OP has the wireless version of the LS50's with built-in amplification, so I don't think the problem is lack of power.
Personally, I lived with the original, passive LS50's for a year or so, upgraded virtually everything else in my system and added quite a bit of sound absorption to my room, but could never get rid of an edginess that was ultimately unacceptable to me. Traded them in for more mellifluous speakers (Alta Audio Rhea's) and all was well. They really should have decent bass, though, down to 40 Hz or so. I suppose it depends on what level of low bass is necessary for your tastes.
The problem with kefs is that they’re kefs. Over rated and over hyped. I would go insane listening to them through the break in period. So much that I would have to sell them before they would get there.
The problem with LS 50s is they need lots of good power. They don't work well with cheap $1,000 integrateds, at least not in my experience. You need good separates to motivate them to sing, and sing they will when you give them lots of good power.
The LS50s take forever to break in. There is a dealer in Manhattan who refused to sell the floor model they have because they don't want to go through the pain of breaking them in again. I have listened to a new pair next to one that is fully broken in...very different sound.
That being said, bass response stinks. Those speakers need a subwoofer to be at their very best.
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