Did vinyl sales just hit the proverbial brick wall?
Interesting read here about the state of vinyl. Personally, I had no idea what the percentage of vinyl sales was “merchandise” never to be opened or played.
@8th-note 1+ I have been collecting records since I was 4 years old. Happiness was getting a new record and the smell of a warmed up Zenith portable. It is part of what I am and I can not get rid of it. So, I will collect records for the duration and my wife will figure out what to do with them after. |
@bdp24 Hey, I was a nut for collecting and riding racing bicycles until my advancing age and ever-diminishing physical abilities told me it was time to let it pass on. I still, though, get a kick out of riding the one racing bicycle I still have -- a Bianchi Infinito dressed with Campy Chorus components. |
I’m with you mijostyn. It’s been that way ever since, as a very young child, playing over and over Mom’s three Rock n Roll singles, Bill Haley’s "See You Later Alligator", "Rock Around the Clock", and Little Richard’s ’Tutti Frutti". One of those might even have been a 78 rpm. This was back in the mid-fifties using our fold open record player. Mike |
That article had gotten a lot of hype and is poorly-researched at best. No way 50% goes unopened. Boomers who are unaware of the number of young people buying vinyl these days reveal their ignorance with their comments. And yes, the market for vinyl, like all "collectibles" and home theater, and home gym equipment, skyrocketed with Covid lockdowns...and will come back down to Earth. And yes, the reissues of everything are overpriced, especially if you live in an area where you can find a lot of good used record stores. As Boomers die and their wives unload their collections on the market, prices will fall further and only the great stuff will remain in demand. the vast majority will be landfill fodder for lack of demand. Even some "good" stuff. There's a very strong market for all hip hop on vinyl. Always was always will be. I purge my collection frequently to keep it lean and mean, when a better sounding version comes into my possession, I unload my previous versions... I've had a much easier time selling hip hop classics than Boomer classics. Market research. Not long-held assumptions. Do your homework.
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Vinyl, despite the Record Industry's spurious claims that it is the best selling format by $value, but CDs still outsell vinyl and streaming overwhelms them both on a per unit basis. Even digital downloads do better than vinyl. Keep in mind, the Record Industry isn't just located in the US so people all over the world are buying the most convenient format (CDs and downloads) to listen to music. Not everyone has access to reliable wi-fi or cellular access for quality streaming either. Heck my in-laws, who live in south Louisiana, have terrible cellular and internet services so streaming anything high-res is out of the question. "Vinyl", realistically has, for the last 25 years, been the domain of collectors and music enthusiasts. A majority of music listeners under the age of 50 aren't that into collecting music (vinyl, CDs, downloads) per se. Nor are they investing heavily in hi-fi or mid-fi setups. Most listen to music as wallpaper. Most are listening with noise-cancelling IEMs that aren't costing more an $150. Most are streaming through their TV or phone via a soundbar or bluetooth speakers, respectively. I buy & collect music in the following formats - vinyl, CDs and downloads. For certain artists, my format of collecting is dependent upon the format I started collecting them in. Some artists never released anything on vinyl - only CD, some both, some release only digitally and some release across all 3 formats. For example, I have The The's entire catalog on CD, Cabaret Voltaire on CD, Calexico on vinyl, Neko Case - CD and vinyl, Miles - vinyl and CD, Monk - vinyl and CD. You get the picture. I buy direct from artists or artist labels and hard to find or original/2nd pressing stuff on Discogs. New vinyl is hit or miss in quality so thinking it's the greatest sounding thing since spliced tape is dubious at best. I have original jazz and blues pressings I inherited from my father that I have on CD because at that time in the early 90s I was in college, CDs were the most convenient format to move around as an apartment hoping student. When my father passed I pulled my favorite albums plus obscure stuff that will never get re-issued or put onto streaming services. I have CDs by artists that will never get reissued, are out of print and not available on streaming. Vinyl is ridiculously over-priced because many of the new pressings are special issues or remasters (that aren't necessarily better than a 1st or 2nd pressing). In fact I've found some great bargains buying 2nd pressings vs. 1st and they sound as good if not better. |
I guess it's with motor vee-hickles where our tastes finally diverge. My pride-of-ownership car is a 2016 Mazda Miata me and the wife bought new off a dealer's lot in Northridge. It had apparently been sitting there for two years plus, probably because of the manual transmission (a six speed!). Finest assembly quality of any car I've owned. No conceivable space to ever put a decent radio in it. Got it for the proverbial song. The only true problem with it is that it is so small it's absolutely impossible to find in the mall's parking lot. You gotta remember exactly where you put it. |
@edcyn: The size of the Tahoe is exactly why I bought it; I use it to haul my drums to gigs. For awhile I had it AND my old '84 BMW 528e, but by 2008 it's parts had started to regularly wear out, and BMW parts aren't cheap. I didn't want to sink anymore dough into it, and sold it to the State of California for a grand. |
@bdp24 When I lived in L.A. (my proverbial old home town), I had a succession of Three Series BMWs. All with manual transmissions. Loved 'em.' One of them purchased at the factory and used to cruise through Europe. And yes, it wasn't difficult at all to load an electric guitar, amp, etc.,into the car for jam sessions (I'd be too embarrassed to call them genuine gigs). Yeah, yawn... Another Beemer adding to the SoCal crush. |
Wow. Yes, so I actually read the entire article, and again...wow. The responses to this misinformed individual have pretty much already been made, either in his original article or here in this forum. Talk about apples and oranges. The two most interesting points I garnered from the reading were first, the only categories where increases were made was cassettes (very nominal) and (Surprise Surprise!) vinyl records. The overall decline I would assume is mostly from streaming. Seems a great way to introduce yourself to an artist or genre. However to this point recorded music has always been a 'possessive' endeavor (for me anyway). My generation 'streamed' AM radio in the beginning, and then FM. You couldn't get the material on demand, but you were guaranteed to hear it again in an hour or so. Younger X's, Z's and millennial's choose to spend their resources on other things (like $8 cups of coffee). They are generally much more mobile and less interested in purchasing things like homes or diamonds. Kudos to them all. I've been buying records for going on 60 years. Wasn't a sealed one in the more than 4K examples. However in the late 80's and early 90's I began to purchase multiple copies of popular artists like REM, U2, Nirvana, Soul Asylum, etc. and left them sealed. Since retirement I have been very fortunate to recoup my investments, ten fold and more. My second observation is that no one has even mentioned CONDITION when espousing on the pros and cons of used records. Always took very good care of my vinyl, running most less than 'perfect' pressings back to the retail outlet for an exchange. And yes, most are still in NM/M- condition. Whether from the 60's or 2K, my asking prices reflect this. As I watched what 'collectible' records started selling for 40 years gone, I weathered the "just take 'em to Goodwill" pressure of this time period. Happy now, supplements my paltry retirement and Social Security payments today. Peace and enjoy the music as it was meant to be heard. AB |
The resurgence of vinyl the last 10-15 years has largely been, “millennials,” and now, “Gen Z.” |
Couple things... #1 - @ghdprentice - Budget systems go up to $50K? Are you kidding me? Maybe $5K or $10K is pushing it, so for MOST people vinyl can sound better for the buck if you know what you are doing. #2 - back in college (early 80's) when I started collecting LPs actively, regular pressings were around $8-$10, audiophile ones were $15-$20, and UHQRs were $40-$50 (if I my memory serves me correctly, which is optimistic - I may be off a bit). Say inflation is 3-4%, that would equate to regular records today being $32-$40, audiophile ones being $60-$80, and UHQR's (or One Steps) being $160-$200. Things cost more now. I don't think the prices for new records are a rip off. The One Steps and UHQRs are the closest to being an even deal. 4% growth is better than declining. I do agree that the industry could be more efficient in releasing back catalogue titles, but they are a business and are trying to make money and expect blockbuster sales immediately upon new reissue, like movies at a theater. Thankfully we have companies like Acoustic Sounds (Analogue Productions), Music Direct (Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab), Speakers Corner, Blue Note, etc. that are keeping things moving forward. But even they won't do a reissue if they don't think it will sell. But I think they are closer to the market with expectations for sales than the regular labels are, who seem to be more conservative these days. |
Most of the people buying the vinyl are older people like me.I'm not buying a album that I could of bought new back in 1969 for $3 bucks .So we here oh a,$30 dollar album is like buying a,$3 buck album 50 years ago.Ok but I'm not paying 30 for it or 100 or 125 for a MM album. WHICH we were told was analog from start to finish...... |
The state of analog records is frustrating and the article is c/w my experience. We have about 500-600 LPs, mostly pre 1990 recordings. At this stage our analog output sounds significantly better than the digital. If I want to buy a LP by contemporary jazz/classical my options are very limited- Wand, Olaffsson, Jarrett, Pink Martini. Even then, their offerings are limited. Forget about less mainstream but still wonderful artists- say Cafe Zimmermann. And yes, the new stuff is expensive. For a young person making their way in the world, spending even $500-1000/yr to build up a collection along with the expense of the hardware- If I was in that position, I would not spend my $ that way. It's another manifestation of the rent rather than own model an increasing portion of the population is being forced into. |
@limomangus - new regular pressings are between $22 - $25 for the most part, not $30. Many, like Blue Note, represent tremendous value and sound great. Most of the people buying vinyl are not your age. Certainly many are, but there are plenty of 20 and 30 somethings that like them (and 40's 50's and 60's), not to mention the hipsters of all ages that just think vinyl is cool. If you are happy with your record library and don't want any additional records, whatever floats your boat. For the rest of us, vinyl is not much more than new CDs and they cost more to make. If you want to rent and stream, that's a great option for people that can't afford to own a record, CD or HiRez DL. |
Yes, records hit the wall at full velocity and broke into a million pieces, it brought a full standing ovation. However, that's the haters and there are many on Audiogon. I made a comment on how I love vinyl. I was attacked verbally. At 18 years old I had quite a collection of records. Before entering the US Navy I turned that collection over to my sister for safe-keeping. She let me down and sold them, I was furious and did not speak to her for almost a year. |
I am very skeptical of the claim that Boomers are disproportionately driving LP sales. According to Billboard, Tyler Swift’s Midnights was the biggest selling vinyl album in 2022 and her re-release of Red took the fifth spot. Here’s the top 10:
Perhaps I’m mistaken, but I don’t know a lot of Boomer fans of Swift, Styles, Lamar, or Tyler. A google search brings up several other sites that place Wet Leg’s debut at number 6. I hope Boomers enjoy Wet Leg, but from what I know of the band, Boomers aren’t their targeted demographic. The other reasons for my skepticism are admittedly anecdotal (as is the evidence presented to suggest this is all Boomer-driven). My 18 year old nephew buys LPs and plays them on a cheap turntable (thankfully, not a Crosley, but not much better). He’s into metal core and melodic death metal. I find it interesting that the bands he likes are releasing their albums as LPs. I doubt they’d be doing this if there were not an identifiable market for them. He told me that for him and his friends it’s not about the sound quality. They like having a tangible object. They like the artwork. They like colored vinyl special releases. They like watching the record spin on the platter. I’m friends with someone who used to own several hi-fi stores, including one in a college town. About 3 or 4 years ago he told me that he had college students coming in weekly in search of a turntable. He started selling entry-level Pro-Jects. He said he couldn’t keep them in stock. His other table brands were VPI and SME. Vinyl may well never be the dominant format again, but I suspect there will be plenty of vinyl fans and collectors long after the folks who remember seeing The Stones, Zeppelin, or even Fleetwood Mac live in their heyday are long gone. |
@mahler123 -audiophile releases are generally $40 and up. They use better vinyl, are better pressed with less pressings per stamper and are typically remastered which takes extra skilled labor. Regular LPs go for $20-30, depending on the label. my friend @limomangus - CD sales are shrinking. Maybe used prices are making a comeback, but not new ones. In many cases,you can’tgive them away. SACDs are a small niche in that market, and I don’t think their sales are broken out separately. I wouldn’t be surprised if SACD sales are doing much better than standard ones. |
In 1971 I bought my first copy of Sticky Fingers for $2.97. Adjusted for inflation to 2023, that's $29.33. Given the heavier quality 180 gram vinyl, the remastering etc... I don't see that $35 - $40 is that big stretch. I think we get all tied up in what things used to cost. Stop me before I say "why when I was your age...." 😆 |
Vinyl records are the number one selling physical medium for music. They still only make up a small slice of total music revenue when you factor in streaming. All age groups are buying vinyl, and turntables are becoming a ’thing’ to have in the home again. In 2021 turntables were the number one entertainment device sold on Amazon during the holiday season. There are countless turntable manufactures in operation today. Cartridge choices are endless. The product itself, the vinyl record, as a physical product that includes artwork and often more, it’s not just rented electrons. On higher end systems vinyl records just sound better than pure digital recordings, and that physicality is more involving-- for some. There is a ritual aspect to it. It’s not about convenience. In the end, convenience usually wins over consumers, but not for everything and not for everyone. Vinyl records will not vanish along with the boomers. It’s not going anywhere anytime soon. |
@wesheadley … “Vinyl records will not vanish along with the boomers. ”.
Well, no, vinyl will not vanish in the next ten years or so… but it will drop dramatically in twenty and be I tiny notch in thirty. |
Will all wine be in screw-cap bottles in 20-30 years? I think sales will level off and grow based upon population like most other established markets. There will always be plenty of people that want to hold the music in their hands. Pity how most people choose to listen to music these days. Like only eating fast food. |
@wesheadley… “Will all wine be in screw-cap bottles in 20-30 years?” You know… good question. Yes. I have a wine cellar with a few hundred bottles of red wine. I am seeing better wine having screw caps. At first I was very skeptical… the long tradition… the ability of oxygen to slowly age the wine. The technology to construct a cork. But the amount of tannins in good quality wine has been coming down over the years so that wine sold today is to be consumed in the next few years as opposed to cellared for a decade or two. I don’t see that trend ending. More and more I see real corks only used in top tier wines for connoisseurs. |
I think you've made my point; corks are not going anywhere and neither are vinyl records. Most wine sold is fairly cheap and forgettable, and most of that may well be screw-cap eventually, but there will always be a huge selection of finer wines that will choose to use corks, your comments on aging (very astute) notwithstanding. Most music released today is streamed, yet the bulk of that is also released on vinyl because a certain percentage of the audience appreciates the quality. Books vs. ebooks are another analogy to vinyl records, maybe a better one... e-readers could hardly be much better than they are now, yet books still seem to hold their place. |
I just asked my 2 kids, 28 and 31 years old if they have any friends that listen to vinyl. I'm laughing for real; so far my daughter told me that her friends buy albums as artwork. I had no idea! I've bought quite a few recent pressings and like the different color vinyl pressings these days . I look at them and say to myself "that's pretty" and put 'em on my turntable. I'm waiting for my son to respond. |
