jea48 - awesome!
Thanks for sharing:-)
Dedicated line help
Finally getting the dedicated line I've always wanted, but had a few questions on how it should be done for best results. My electrician is kinda young and is not an audiophile (the flipside is he's only charging 75 bucks to do it), so I'm relying on you guys for the details.
Some general info in case it's helpful: The system is in the basement and in the same room as the circuit box about 30 feet away. The wire will be fished behind the walls that fortunately have a few access panels between the box and my system, and there is no insulation between the wall and the foundation -- just some heat pipes (steam heat).
Questions:
Is 20amp strongly preferable over 15amp line or does it not matter that much? I'm currently running a 125wpc push/pull solid state amp but may very well run something like a 100wpc class A ss amp in the future, if this makes a difference.
I'm going to purchase a Porter Port, but is there certain type/brand of wire that should be used from the circuit box to the Port or will the standard stuff do fine?
Should I have him run 2 lines -- one for analog and one for digital, or is there another way to separate these guys (or is it sufficient just to do this at the power conditioner, which I don't have yet)?
Anything this guy could do wrong that could cause problems or create a fire hazard?
Any other tips you guys have either on the installation or equipment would be most appreciated. THANKS FOR ANY THOUGHTS/HELP.
Some general info in case it's helpful: The system is in the basement and in the same room as the circuit box about 30 feet away. The wire will be fished behind the walls that fortunately have a few access panels between the box and my system, and there is no insulation between the wall and the foundation -- just some heat pipes (steam heat).
Questions:
Is 20amp strongly preferable over 15amp line or does it not matter that much? I'm currently running a 125wpc push/pull solid state amp but may very well run something like a 100wpc class A ss amp in the future, if this makes a difference.
I'm going to purchase a Porter Port, but is there certain type/brand of wire that should be used from the circuit box to the Port or will the standard stuff do fine?
Should I have him run 2 lines -- one for analog and one for digital, or is there another way to separate these guys (or is it sufficient just to do this at the power conditioner, which I don't have yet)?
Anything this guy could do wrong that could cause problems or create a fire hazard?
Any other tips you guys have either on the installation or equipment would be most appreciated. THANKS FOR ANY THOUGHTS/HELP.
26 responses Add your response
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@tjassoc said:
RF shielding is not the main reason for using MC (Metal Clad) aluminum armored cable. The main reason for using 2 conductor with insulated ground MC cable is because of the way the cable is built. The three insulated conductors are tightly spirally twisted together and held tightly together by the aluminum armor. This cable build geometry greatly helps reduce an induced voltage, as well as noise, from being transferred from the two current carrying conductors, (Hot and Neutral), due their magnetic fields onto the EGC, (Equipment Grounding Conductor). MC does a better job of doing this compared to NM sheathed cable. (Romex Trade Name). 2012 Seminar w-Notes v1-0.ppt - indy-aes-2012-seminar-w-notes-v1-0.pdf Check out page 16. Read pages 31 through 37. Note the chart on page 35. Note the worse branch circuit wiring method is single conductors pulled, installed, loosely inside of conduit. Note: Solid wire, conductor, MC cable... NOT AC, (commonly called BX) armored cable. AC armored cable should never be used for audio branch circuit wiring, imo...
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A few things I've learned, but I'm by far not the most knowledgeable in this area. - Run dedicated lines, 20 amp circuits, oversizing the ROM-X wire to 10 gauge helps. - There debate to use aluminum armored cables as a shielding, not sure of the results. - Run all the power lines from the same phase of the circuit breaker box (note: breakers alternate phases in vertical sequence.) - Do not run the wires close together, leave at least 6" space between each wire run. Anyone else can help with details? |
Go ahead and run 20A circuit, it's basically the same cost. I keep my noisy stuff on a separate power conditioner than my analog. I also use ifi Wall wart adapters wherever possible and use shielded power cables and interconnects. It doesn't sound like you'll have much of a power draw so 1 circuit would be sufficient. When listeners have a lot more power, and are far from the main panel a sub-panel may be a better option. One other possible option is to run a 20A/220V line, and use a balanced power transformer in the room to step it down and give you balanced power. Lots of watts available then for the least amount of copper. |
@scott22 If this isn’t a joke, it’s a wall outlet that’s much better built for audio purposes than a standard outlet. |
Initially my "dedicated" line shared its neutral side with other circuitry on the same floor. The electrician had run a single wire from the breaker box upstairs down to the ground floor and connected the neutrals of several ground floor circuits into that. He did this because it was easier to fish one wire than several, and the space behind the wallboard was already cramped. I had him do my dedicated line over again, properly dedicated on both sides this time. |
"My electrician is running the lines on the same leg and not sharing a neutral bus" While my electrician will follow this, I'm not clear on it. I had thought all main breaker boxes have a single neutral bus i.e. there is no choice. Or am I missing something very fundamental (which could easily be the case! My understanding of this is limited). |
I originally ran 2 dedicated 20 amp lines. 1 for digital and 1 for analogue. I was impressed. I have since added 3 dedicated 30 amp lines, now having a seperate line for each component in my rig. I am completely floored by the improvement! The result however is that each component now seems to be very sensitive to changes in Power Cables and AC outlets. AC outlets I am running a mix of PS Audio, FIM,Cryo'd Hubbell and ATL Newcablestudio. The ATL's are the sweetest of the lot. All components share a single ground which has prevented Ground Loops and so far has not transferred noise component to component. Dedicated lines have been great for me, however they do shine a bright light onto the weaknesses of the components which depending upon ones point of view may be a caveat. Isn't Audio fun!! |
My dedicated lines are being run as I type this. Thanks for all the advice. My electrician is running the lines on the same leg and not sharing a neutral bus, which I don't know if he would've done had it not been for your advice. I ended up running two lines (12/2 Romex) one of which I'll plug in my amp and pre, and my DAC and transport will go in the other. I know I should've probably run more, but this seemed like a good start and since a power conditioner or surge protector is in my future this may end up being enough. So now I have my old line, one dedicated line with a Porter port and one dedicated line with an average recepticle (I'll upgrade that to a Porter port at some point). This should make for some interesting comparisons and I'll report back on the differences in case anyone might be interested. |
Just did it last month with 4 lines and a separate subpanel with Romex wires and Furutech ports. I live 4 blocks from powerlines (not sure good or bad) and berfore installation, the room had pseudo dedicated lines except for lightings Improvement was not jaw dropping at any single aspect but there is noticeable improvement on almost all aspect. Before installation, I had to run preamps, phono off a conditioner; otherwire there is lost of subtle detail, soundstaging and texture. After the dedicated AC installation, the difference with and without AC conditioner is insignificant. |
Use cable which is UL-approved or your fire insurance will likely be voided. Chris Ven Haus of VH Audio sells cryo-treated 12 gauge Romex cable for just this purpose. I would think that would be worth using. After all, your Porter Port (good choice!) is cryoed. Do get at least two lines pulled while you're at it. If three, as Thorman suggests, is too many, well, you can always isolate your digital gear with an iso transformer later on. Make sure the electrician runs the lines independently all the way back to the breaker box--no shared neutral buss. Use 12 gauge wire, not 14. This is a good move, you will not regret it. |
