Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure
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Parameters (from Cube Audio):
Power: 40 W
Efficiency: 92 dB
Frequency response: 30Hz - 18kHz ( 6db)*
Dimensions: 30 x 50 x 105 cm
Weight: 40 Kg
Just listened to / viewed Janos' recent 'Real World Audio' YouTube post. As always, he offers an interesting and meaningful perspective. This one is about reactions / feedback from three of his female friends as they listened to digital and vinyl, in two different rooms/systems via his Voigt Pipes with Cube Audio drivers.
Real World Audio Video: Voigt Pipes with Cube Audio Fc8 driver
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Hi guys , I be been on this thead on and off.I m an old owner of nenuphars( 3 yrs back) Long story but i moved to another house, another system, another project. i had a second pair of cube nenuphars drivers v1 wich i upraded from single driver builder in singapore ( he has his own brand), this was before cube audio make the v2.
the pair i have is v1 upgraded with different japanese paper craft . i spend for this upgrade 1500€( incl shipping).
the specs are still the same as the v1. i tried them on my friend nenuphars cabinets, and to my ears they sounded better than his v2 . i was planning to make different design with these drivers, like back horn loaded, or open baffle design , but long time passed, and i m not a diy myself. i m no longer interested to go ahead with this project and i m willing to sell these drivers to someone handy , willing to explore them, or even try on his nenuphars. if interested let me know, i will share pics, videos playing against v2 and price. thks
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Cube Audio Nenuphar V2 review by Joel Chevassus // Audiophile-Magazine (France) Note the link below is for the English language PDF. Review is on pages 3 through 8. Audiophile-Magazine Review of Cube Audio Nenuphar V2 in English |
Thanks, Charles. This link takes you directly to the video on YouTube... Nenuphar V2 + Tektron 211 SE amplifier + Denafrips Aries YouTube (from Cube Audio) |
They look very similar to the Wolf Von Langa line of speakers. So similar that WVL should take notice. The WVL line uses field coil midrange and woofers however. WVL makes fantastic sounding speakers. While they look similar it seems both companies use some different approaches in design and drivers beyond the shared Mundorf tweeter. |
For those interested in Cube's Cube related efforts there is mention of a new widebander combined with an 18 inch woofer. Photos of two renders are on page 4 of Srajan's Qualio intro, linked below.
New Cube Audio Speaker Renders via 6Moons
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Photo from the Warsaw show, courtesy of Mono and Stereo // Tuan Luong No. 21 of 50. Cube Audio Room AVS 2022 Warsaw |
I recently purchased the Nenuphar V2 speakers. WOW what an amazing speaker. I only have about 30 hrs of play on them but I am very impressed with the sound I am hearing. When I first hooked them up, they sounded dry and flat, not very musical. Soundstage was not that great, kinda small. I am thinking to myself, what have I done, this purchase was a big mistake! Now I know better....all speakers need some break-in time before you start any critical listening so lets not get crazy yet. To top it off the amp I am using is a First Watt SIT-3 that I purchase and the original owner told me it had maybe 50 hrs of play on it, so it is like brand new also. So I put a break-in CD in and let the system play all day while I was out. I played a couple of albums after 10 hrs of break-in and what a difference. These things started to come to life. The richness and detail of the music was beginning to blossom. The soundstage was wider and deeper. After every listening session the speakers and amp continue to improve. Now after 30 hrs the speakers are really stating to come into their own. I have never experienced this level of realism in recorded music. The bass is shocking. I never expected this level of sound from a 10 in driver. I have a copy of Dark Side of the Moon (UHQR) that I just played and I feel like I am hearing this album for the first time. The detail and separation of the instruments is mind blowing. When all of the clocks start to chime, the room is enveloped in the sound, the soundstage is wider and deeper than the room. It is one of those things you have to hear because words can not accurately describe it. All of this is happening with only 30 hrs of play. I can't wait to hear how they evolve after 100 or 200 hrs on them. And I have not even started to adjust toe-in or change spikes and footers or distance from the wall. I can say that everything I have read and videos that I have watched on youtube are true. I have a feeling this is going to be a fun journey with these speakers !!! |
Needless to say, you’re off to an excellent start.😊 At only 30 hours you have considerably more speaker (And frankly amplifier) burn-in to go. That you are so happy with what you’re hearing already is very encouraging. Congratulations on your wise and successful Nenuphar acquisition. It would be very interesting if once the Nenuphars are fully settled in you could try a low power tube amplifier. Just to contrast with your S.I.T.-3 amplifier. Just a thought. Charles |
@benjie Congratulations. What a wonderful way to kick off 2023. Once your V2s (and SIT 3) are run in and you are comfortable with the V2s, positioning and placement experimentation will deliver significant results. Keep us posted. |
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The rest of the system is Pass Labs XP-30 preamp XP-25 phono amp TTW Momentus copper platter turntable with Graham Phantom II Supreme tonearm and Ortofon Anna cartridge PS Audio DSD transport and DAC Bryston BDP-2 and Technics RS1500 reel to reel. Cables are High Fidelity Cables. Puritan Labs 156 power conditioner and Ground System. Last night I played some tapes and they sounded just amazing with this amp and speaker combination. The highlight of the night was when I played a copy of the Beatles Abbey Road reel to reel. I purchased this copy from a recording engineer who had passed away some years ago. He worked all over the record industry so I have no idea what the source for this tape was. All I can say is that I have been listening to this album for over 50 yrs, I have owned almost every pressing of this album and last night I experienced something like never before. The deep solid bass, the separation of the instruments, the width and depth of the soundstage, the air around the recording just spectacular. I felt that I could get up from my listening chair, walk up and stand in front of each band member, it was like they were in the room with me. Whenever friends and family want me to show off my system, I am going right for the Abbey Road tape. |
Found this thread because I'm very seriously considering the qualio iq. It seems to have everything I'm interested in from a technology (and expected behavior based on that tech). I've been interested in cube as well but haven't auditioned yet. I'm going to go listen to some nenuphar mini that aren't too far away as I expect that will give me an idea of what the IQ will do in the mid range. I am 100% confident the soundstage and imaging will make me happy based on the video they posted on YouTube (played through dartzeel and reference 3a speakers, the only thing I can really determine is soundstage imaging and dynamics but what I hear confirms what one should hear with this design). What I'm concerned about is mid range and vocals, coming from harbeth I'm picky about that and trained to really appreciate warmth and life like timbre. If the cubes make me happy in that regard I'm going to order. The price is fantastic even including shipping taxes and duties. |
Stereophile has a review by Ken Micallef of the 25W Pathos InPol Remix MkII integrated amplifier. The specs caught my eye as the output impedance is listed as 0.9 ohms. As the Nenuphars have an impedance of 8 ohms, this would make the damping factor 8/0.9 = 9 which is pretty low and down in the tube amp range. The SIT-3 has a damping factor of 30.
If anybody gets a chance to audition the Pathos please keep us posted. |
8/0.9 = 9
Good observation. This is actually what the Nenuphar was designed to work with due to the highly damped driver implemented. Charles |
Just want to follow up on the speaker progress now that I have about 150 hrs of play on them. I feel that the speakers have settled in and are about 99% broken in. The sound is amazing across the spectrum. The soundstage is wide and deep. The detail that is heard is stunning. Strong deep bass, very impressive. If you want to hear how good the bass is with the Nenuphars play this track, the sound pressure it creates in the room is an attention getter. After listening to this track, I kind of wondered why someone would feel the need for a subwoofer with these speakers.
My speaker placement is about 1 ft from the wall with about 5 degrees of toe-in. The speakers are on 1 inch rock maple platforms to make it easier to move the speakers around. I am not using the spikes that come with the speakers, they are 1.5 inches tall and I feel that from my listening position, which is about 12 ft away, the speaker is angled kind of over my head. I replaced the spikes with Eden Sound HemiSpikes, they are 1 inch tall. Using them dropped the front of the speaker down where it is pointing more towards my ears and that small drop did not effect the bass in any way that I can detect. Charles I took your advise and tried a tube amp with the Nenuphars. I have a Will Vincent custom built Dynaco ST with Gold Lyon KT-66 tubes. WOW the tube amp is an excellent match with these speakers. The soundstage is a little wider and deeper when compared to the SIT-3. The air around the instruments is a little more defined and the overall richness of the music is just great. This is how I like music to sound in my room. I am not complaining about the performance of the First Watt SIT-3, it is and amazing sounding amp and Nelson Pass did a great job designing a SS amp to sound like a tube amp, mission accomplished. But there is nothing like the genuine article, a real tube amp. I would recommend going with a tube amp if someone was going to purchase the Nenuphar speakers. It just seems that they were designed for a tube amp. There are many reviews and youtube videos out there using all different amps with great success, the tube amp is just my opinion. I am very happy with my purchase and am looking forward to many hours of listening pleasure. I can't say anything bad about these speakers, they have checked all the boxes for me. Like I said above, these speakers are going to be a lot of fun !!! |
This says it all! You are very happy with the Nenuphars and have increased your enjoyment of listening to music. Wonderful, this is entirely the point of these endeavors. I’m glad that you gave tube amplifiers an opportunity to pair with your Nenuphars. Charles |
I wanted to tip my hat to everyone who has been active in this thread. After months of research, I’m pretty solid on the idea of building my own cabinets this summer and eventually purchasing a pair of Cube F10 Neo drivers... Pretty great that Cube offers this as an option, and also openly shares their cabinet design. As a guy with plenty of woodworking experience and not a huge audio budget, this is right up my ally. This thread verified multiple times that my Yamamoto A-08s 2wpc 45 SET amplifier should be a beautiful match for low to moderate level listening in a ’far nearfield’ situation, maybe in the range of 6-9 feet from each speaker. When I first looked at Cube, I wrote them off because I figured 92dB sensitivity was too low for my 45s... however, given the easy / flat impedance and particular design of this unique driver, it sounds like it should be suitable. My current speakers, a set of Omega CAMs, are rated 94.5dB, and I have all the volume I need while staying far away from the Yamamoto’s power limits. I don’t think a 2.5dB loss in efficiency will be earth shattering, but I’m only working off of theory here... Of course, the idea that the Cube will be an upgrade over my Omegas is pure theory as well :). |
Hi @djembeplay sounds like a great project. What design are you considering and type of wood? Just in case you are not aware, the plans on the Cube website are different to what they use for their own complete builds. Yamamotos will be a great match I would think. |
Hi @toetapaudio - glad to hear your endorsement for the Yamamoto. For the cabinet, I'm planning on building the plan on their site that's labeled "F10 Neo / F10 DIY cabinet" at 1000mm x 600mm x 320mm. This looks like the closest of the two designs they published to what they are using in the Nenuphar. I'll build everything exactly to plan, except my material may end up being slightly thicker -- I'm thinking about using 3/4" stranded or vertical bamboo ply, built over an inner box of 1/4" or 3/8" Baltic Birch, with a thin silicone layer between the two materials... sort of a 'ply - spring - ply' layer. This will let me build the inner box with less attention to aesthetics (exposed fasteners, rough edges, etc.), while creating a form with exact right angles to layer the bamboo on top of. Those are the plans for now at least... Summer is still a ways off, and parable quotes of mice and men applies suitably here. Like you, I did notice that the Nenuphar is built differently to the published design I'm looking at. The two major differences I can see is that the Nenuphar is 500mm deep instead of 600mm, and it's bottom ported instead of rear ported. It's also listed as being 5mm higher, but this might be taking the gained height of the front floor spikes into account. I do wonder why there is a difference between the Nenuphar and the DIY plans... I'm planning to write Cube to ask them. Perhaps they have a proprietary design in the Nenuphar that they don't want to publish for marketing reasons, which would be understandable... or, perhaps they just updated their design at some point and haven't likewise updated the DIY plans... shrug. |
@charles1dad Thanks also for fortifying my thinking about the Yamamoto -- we in the low watt SET camp have to tread very carefully with our speaker selections, so it’s good to know I’m not ’off in space’ thinking this would be a nice combo. |
@djembeplay thanks for the details. Probably you know that every material used in audio has a sonic signature. One can test by introducing different materials under equipment and listening to the change in sound. I haven’t tried building cabinets yet but considering. Some say spruce is better than birch ply, mdf giving the least good results. Apart from the plans on Cube, I understand that Scott at Woden Designs has undertaken some designs for Cube drivers. |
@toetapaudio Likewise, I’m new to building speaker cabinets as well -- but, I have decades of woodworking and cabinet building to my credit, so I’m all ’tooled up’ for the job. I just had a look at the Woden Designs page and found a design based around the Magus driver, called the "Rubik". I couldn’t load any info about it though. I’m not sure how it would play compared to Cube’s own design... I’d probably take the conservative route and opt for the latter, in the face of the unknown. I like the idea of bamboo. I’ve been gathering what info I can about it over the past few weeks. It’s extremely stiff, while still being modest on weight (although not ’lightweight’ per say). It’s also high on the Jensen scale, so ’tough’. It’s harder than red oak, yet very dimensionally stable when constructed as a 3 or 5 ply. Aesthetically (totally subjective of course), I really like the look as well. Particularly, I love the way the edge grain can look like intricate inlay work if finished to showcase this, and this also is an ’easy’ cut to make. Oh, also, if purchased as a ’carbonized’ version, where it is pre-colored, this is accomplished through a baking process. This means the color is uniform through the entire piece, making sanding and cutting and finishing that much easier because consistent color will be maintained as we ’dig in’ to the material. The vertical / edge grain ply has a unique look that grew on me, while the stranded grain appears a bit more like a traditional solid hardwood (and it’s even stiffer / more resilient than raw bamboo). As far as having a nice look but also being available in stable ply construction and available in standard 4x8’ sheets, this seems to be one of the better options. I usually work with solid hardwood, but of course it’s too dimensionally unstable for this application. On the downside, the bamboo ply is pretty expensive... I might pay around $1k in materials for this in total. I’m good with it, though -- I want to shoot for something really top notch on this job, both in form and function. Economically I’d still be coming in at around half the cost of a new set of Nenuphars, I figure... instead, I pay through sweat, maybe some tears, but hopefully no blood :0. |
If I may humbly interject , Go for it with the Bamboo cabinets. Make this project special and beautiful. You are going to be utilizing a world class single driver that will sound fantastic with proper execution. You certainly have the prerequisite skill set and experience to pull this off. Many do not. Take advantage of your know how and talent. Please keep us posted. Charles |
Will do! Thanks for the kind words, and all your input throughout the thread. My progress with this will be slow -- I'm just starting the preliminary work (planning, research). I'm in a good situation for taking my time on this one, as I'm already quite smitten with my Omegas. Eventually, I should have a well informed comparison between the two. |
I recently got a good deal on a used amplifier by Gold Note, the PA-10 ($2K new). It is their introductory power amp and, like the PA-1175, has a switch to change the damping factor to either 250 or 25. Of course I immediately set it to 25 and hooked it up to my Nenuphars.
I'm in the tube camp these days, but I'm going to keep the Gold Note as a backup in case my David Berning amp has to go to the shop. I'd rank the PA-10 below the SIT amps but slightly better with the Nens than the Bakoon. It has the usual virtues of solid state -- the bottom end, the detail. Vocals have good presence but lack the palpability of tubes and the floating decays, such as near the end of Scarborough Fair where Garfunkel's "parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme" floats off into the empyrean. |
How did it sound with the higher damping factor. Better than expected -- a little drier perhaps and a shallower soundstage. By the way, word is that Nelson has found a new source of industrial SITs. Apparently they are larger and produce more heat. There is a SIT-4 in the works, but it may be a monoblock configuration to dissipate the heat. |
@toetapaudio are you UK based and running the 23R? Please drop me a PM if you are. @realworldaudio - great videos, I came across your channel a while back and have learnt a lot - so thanks! Have you ever heard the Cube in TQWT or MLTL vs your Voigt pipe? Difficult to know which enclosure best suits the Cube drivers... Why F8 Magnus over F10 select? Seems as though the F8 Magnus has somewhat smoother frequency response...
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@gavin1977 I had Bakoon 13R, very similar. Worked well imo with Nenuphar’s. |
Just had a demo of a pair of Cube Audio Jazzon and Nenuphar - pretty similar level of performance to be honest, with the Nenuphar having an smidge more polish, detail and soundstage - but I would happily go for the F10 select given the cost/benefit ratio. …Or perhaps I should have listened to the F8 Magnus - smoother and more consistent frequency response by the looks of it? Anyone else have a similar experience? |
Hi Charles, @gavin1977 statement referred specifically to the F10 Select driver which is used in the Jazzon. The Nenuphar uses the F10 Neo driver, which has a quite different magnet assembly. Could be that he intended the comment toward both drivers. Having owned Nenuphars for over a year and experienced the break-in and associated system-optimization learning curve, I can see where someone new to these crossover-less full-range speakers could form this impression IF the drivers are not fully broken-in OR IF the accompanying system is not sorted OR IF the toe-in is incorrect. These speakers provide little cushion for mismatched components (especially regarding amplifiers), suboptimal setup, etc, and they produce tremendous energy across the frequency spectrum (no crossover to dumb down the dynamics of the incoming signal through parasitic loss), so ancillary components with a hot upper midrange can be problematic. However, getting these things sorted delivers a sound that is so fundamentally right that, for me, it is nigh impossible to imagine returning to standard multi-driver “crossover-ed” speakers. |
Fully agree with the feedback regarding optimised chain of electronics - something I have experience with. The amplifiers being used here are the ones with a proven synergy. Jazzon: What I’m hearing is the above frequency response. Dip in lower mid-bass, then a rising frequency response - this tilted up frequency response means I end up trying to compensate with the volume control for the lack of mid-bass, which just makes vocals even more shouty. Perhaps the Nenuphars don’t have this issue as much: But I can’t say that I heard them as sounding completely flat either. I wonder if I should have taken the time to hear the F8, which is a very flat frequency response. Just trying to troubleshoot, as there’s real promise here and so don’t want to admit defeat just for the sake of a lack of optimisation.
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@gavin1977 that frequency response curve for the Nenuphars is for the V1 version. Changes in cone configuration in the V2 version largely addressed what you describe (has a fuller midbass and less upper midrange rise). Yet, IME the V2 is still sensitive to toe-in much as the multiple lines on the V1 graph indicate. Haven’t heard the Jazzon in person, but, as you say, its graph looks to support your experience, at least at whatever toe-in was used for that single line. It would be informative to see the graph at different toe-ins for the Jazzon. My bet, based on working with the Nenuphars, is that room placement/room treatment/toe-in optimization should go a long way toward improving the peaks and valleys shown with the Jazzon. |
I have had the Cube Jazzon speakers since late June of this year. David Ten has raved about Cube speakers on this thread and others and that is what I heard at Axpona when they were played with Pass Labs gear. Sensation speakers is what I heard. I wanted to love them in my room and kinda did with my strong confirmation bias until I concluded that the were bereft of LF response and the expected spatiality and had nowhere nearly the ambient response I heard of them at Axpona. To be honest, I put them up for sale as they came nowhere near to performing in my room to my liking with a stellar pair of 300b monos so bought a pair of Dynaudio C1 Signature speakers which I had before, loved their sound, but parted with them because I didn't fancy their blonde finish. Right, I know, a foolish sale, but the new Dyn's have the awesome mocca finish, pure eye candy and a sound to match. The Dyns will arrive next week. At any rate, last Saturday I sat down for a long listening session and by God, the Jazzon speakers just blew me away.... sounding just like I heard at Axpona. Overnight, the speakers just blossomed with maybe 100 hours on them. I recall I had the same experience with my Spatial Audio M4 Triode Masters.... they sounded not that great until I had well over 100 hours on them and I might say that their sound improved mightily for the next few hundred hours. My intent in my comments is to note that the Cubes speaker, in my estimation, take a wicked long time to run it to perform as they ultimately can do so don't be too impatient during the process... they will come alive at some point. They now are sensation speakers, with ample bass absent a subwoofer and have a poise and delicacy to the sound that is remarkable with a massive soundstage. You gotta part with some coin to acquire them and while I have not heard the upper-end line of Cube speakers, I am content that these provide a fair approximation of their more expensive line of speakers . The Cubes do require careful matching with you amplification as they match best with amps with a low damping factor, which inherently includes most all tube amps as well as the sensational Enleum SS amp as well as the Pass Labs First Watt ss amps. Be patient with the run-in process with Cube speakers - and all new speakers, they can take a very long time to sound their best. |
